Most gun-loving: Americans vs Thais

[thailiketoo]

Americans are required to own firearms by law--its actually in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights or something.

Can our Thai "brothers-in-arms" make that claim?

BTW, only 25 posts and you are already fishing the big waters with a topic like this.

I see a bright future ahead ;-)

I agree with your second comment re fishing in BIG waters, well said.

Re your first comment you are Way.. way of beat. Have a thorough read of the US 2nd amendment.... somewhat boring to say the least... but never the less informative. A lot of US citizens "think" the 2nd amendment permits everyone to carry arms. If you have the time & patience to read it all, it mainly refers to militia & state organized citizens force to carry arms for purposes of defense. Somewhat different to "everyone" being permitted to be armed at their own discretion.

I realize I'll get numerous attacks from Americans telling me how wrong I am. My main point is to try an offer a basic explanation as to what most people think & what is fact.

Moving on.....

There is like 10 million pages of case law dealing with the issue and millions of arguments before the Supreme court and other American courts. Why would you think reading one amendment would give you a clue?

Who cares. Can we move this thread to the bait Americans forum?

[David48]

And anyone know how to get gun oil stains out of bedsheet?

Yes i sleep with my shotgun,... Wanna make something of it?

Single or double barrel?

[ggt]

Teaching a young man to respect and safely use a firearm...to stalk prey while hunting...to dress and prepare wild game...is a tradition in some areas of the US...which has nothing to do with machismo...

[Miami Bob]

. As someone else has said, these were the tools we used to gain our freedom.

Freedom from the native Americans?

No, freedom from "mad #king george ". I think it was george the 3rd.

[ryanmacl]

First off, I am an American, who has been living in Thailand for 9 years. I served in the US Military and have owned 1 firearm, which I have only used for shooting at targets, never at anything living.

Your interpretation of the Second Amendment of the Constitution is irrelevant. The courts have ruled that basically everyone is entitled to own a firearm, and the courts are the ones who matters. What you deem "fact" is clearly fiction.

As it has been determined to be one of our rights, why should anyone stand idly by and allow a right to be taken away? Would you do the same for any of your other rights in your home country, just sit there and allow it to be taken?

As many have said, mainly with a derogatory connotation, America has a "gun culture". Maybe you agree with it, maybe you don't. Why the hatred, calling us all stupid rednecks? Thailand has a "ghost" culture, a "sin sod" culture, again so many call them stupid. Germany has a "beer and sausage" culture, UK has a "soccer hooligan" culture, Australia has an "outback" culture. That doesn't define the entire population.

A little tip: American's don't care about your opinion, Thai's don't care about your opinion, Germans, Brits, and Australians don't care about your opinion. I was born and raised in Boston, and walked daily past places where the Brits committed atrocities in the name of the King. I lived where the American Government was born, and Brits were fought off with guns and determination. If you aren't part of that, it is normal that you wouldn't understand how ingrained it is into American culture, so don't claim to be some authority on the subject or claim to know any better. Americans demand the ability to protect themselves in the way they see fit, not to blindly give all control to someone else. We accept that more guns equal more gun-related violence, and if you don't like it, don't go there. Same as if you don't like Thai culture, don't come here. You won't be missed.

[smileydude]

If there is such a thing as a gun loving culture, I'd guess it evolved from the need to use it as tools of survival such as for hunting, living in a rural environment surrounded by wild predators, or from hostile neighbors, so considering the history of how America evolved it is not surprising that guns are ingrained into their culture.

Nowadays though I think most people, whether Thai's or Americans, like guns because of the feeling of power and control we have over our own security and an extension of our masculinity.

Edited May 15, 2014 by smileydude

[Oziex1]

So far quite a civil discussion for a weighty topic, keep it up.

[rlopes]

Regarding the first reply>> dear god please tell me you are being sarcastic.

silly topic but im bored and feel like hearing myself clack away.

Although I wouldn't use the word "love", I get your general point and the answer isn't even close.

Americans have a deep historical connection to guns.

They were the tools that helped free them from the clutches of the monarchy.

Have you ever realized you forgot to wear your watch after leaving the house and felt naked?

That would be the feeling settlers moving west had when they didn't have their gun. It offered protection and was a means of acquiring meat.

I got a Red Ryder BB gun when i was 9. Probably spent 200 hours shooting cans behind my house. Soon began taking our golden retriever up to my neighbors barn to shoot the pigeons that shit all over. Dog brought the birds back to our house in her mouth and boom, the cats had a meal.

My cousin is a true gunsmith, he has a full on love of guns and teaching about them.

One of the most impressive pieces built in my high school woodshop class was a beautiful wooden gun safe built by my best friends older brother. Kept the guns locked up and clean for when hunting season came around. We were taught at a young age that touching the safe meant you get the belt.

I'm sure there are some Thais who have similar sentiments, but i would be surprised if it is as widespread.

This is touching.

Americans love for weapons and war has bought them much disgrace, dislike and distrust worldwide.

[Jimbolai]

I can't imagine anyone on this planet who loves guns more than Americans. Not all Americans, of course, but a good number. It's truly part of the culture. If you want to upset certain Americans, suggest taking away his guns. Them is fightin' words!

As for Thais, I've only met one or two who even own guns. And it's almost never talked about with most Thais that I run into. Maybe it's different out in the country, but in the urban areas, not really a big topic of discussion.

I do not have the stats but believe that the Fins have and like their guns even more than Americans. I also think there are other counties that have and love their guns more than Americans. What say you?

[YipYipYa123]

I love guns, loved them in the US, love them in Thailand.

But there is a big difference between gun culture in the two countries.

US, lots of rifles, most guns kept in the home (unloaded) or the car (loaded), very few carrying.

Thailand, mainly handguns, most guns kept on the person (loaded), usually in a belly bag, never seen so many men carrying.

Just curious but how long since you have been back to US?

Alot of concealed carry nowadays...its quite the rage.

So many of them fantasizing they can be a hero in some robbery attempt...all want to pretend they are cops.

Slightly different scenario but a guy in montana had his garage broken into twice by teenagers and got pissed so he set a trap. He left the garage door open with a purse in plain site. He wired in motion detectors and a CCTV. He told his barber he wanted to teach those kids a lesson.

A kid walked into the garage one night, the homeowner fired four rounds from his shotgun into the garage, striking the kid twice and killing him. It was a German exchange student.

A human life taken for nothing. Thats gun culture in the US today.

Its not like it was when I was a kid growing up when we could bring our shiotgun to gradeschool in the morning and leave it in the principals office to hunt pheasants on the way home.

I have no idea about the legality of this "trap" but in all honesty I don't think it is fair to give the impression the exchange student was right (by saying "a life taken for nothing"). Whether it was an exchange student, a homeless man, or wealthy individual; they don't have any right to trespass on private property regardless of whether there is a pile of gold or not waiting to stolen. In the end the homeowner may get charged with a crime, but then again, maybe not - what's known for sure is that nobody should be trespassing on anybody's private property.

Sure, nobody should be trespassing. But killing a young kid because he entered your garage unarmed, pissed and looking for booze. I would have been dead ten times over if I had grown up in the Land of the Free.

Are you saying you have illegally entered and stolen from 10+ people's homes??

[wandasloan]

I can't imagine anyone on this planet who loves guns more than Americans. Not all Americans, of course, but a good number. It's truly part of the culture. If you want to upset certain Americans, suggest taking away his guns. Them is fightin' words!

As for Thais, I've only met one or two who even own guns. And it's almost never talked about with most Thais that I run into. Maybe it's different out in the country, but in the urban areas, not really a big topic of discussion.

I was going to write exactly that. You can't compare, because in the US, guns are part of the culture, and in Thailand they are not. It's similar to asking who loves rice more, people in Ayutthaya or people in Louisiana.

Khun Berkshire, just a guess, but I bet you've met more than one or two people who own guns. In fact that's one of the main points of the contrast, that any American will talk about her (lack of) guns, but Thais often prefer to keep their little secret.

.

[hardy1943]

I am a Yank and I never owned a gun and we only have one in our extented family that is a bird hunter that owns a shot gun for hunting.

Like the story goes little man needs a gun to be as tall or to feel like a bigman. I am 6'2" 250 Lbs also you find less educated people and on a lower income bracked owning guns.I do not ever had the urge to own a gun and neither does my older brother and his sons and they all have PhD's. People in Texas,Kentucky and most Southern States seem to own more then the more affluent States to the North.

[wandasloan]

First off, I am an American, who has been living in Thailand for 9 years. I served in the US Military and have owned 1 firearm, which I have only used for shooting at targets, never at anything living.

Excellent. And a very readable and entirely true post. Thanks for both.

I just want to point out that the United States has more gun violence, no doubt about it. But every country has its unique problems. And just to pick a non-US country at random, you will not see all these headlines in ONE DAY in the United States, either, as you saw one day this week in the randomly chosen country:

Ann Maguire stabbing: Leeds teacher 'died from neck wound' (by a 15-year-old)

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-27390908

Post mortem reveals Walsall couple died from stab wounds (murder suicide)

http://goo.gl/4YKMqA

Hemsby party death: Connor Barrett died of stab wound (by five boys, aged 16, two of 17, two of 15, and an 18-year-old man)

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-norfolk-27369959

One from Ireland

Funeral held for shop manager stabbed to death in Kilkenny (by a 27-year-old stalker)

http://goo.gl/YrvUUH

And weirdly: Dog found dead in Barton Hill was not stabbed

http://goo.gl/Z503bg

It's a headline story in at least one part of Britain when a dog dies, not from stabbing.

.

[David48]

Khun Berkshire,

...

BTW ... was looking for something else (a snuff grinder) and saw this image.

Credit

[Taco]

Number of Privately Owned Firearms

The estimated total number of guns (both licit and illicit) held by civilians in the United States is 270,000,000¹ to 310,000,000²

the estimated variance of the amount of guns in America (40 million firearms) would arm every Thai from 15-54 years old

15-24 years: 15.1% (male 5,181,468/female 4,975,083)

25-54 years: 45.6% (male 15,192,334/female 15,569,761)

^{When I got my FOID card (firearm owners ID) I mailed in a photo that I took myself with $10. Could have been a picture of anyone, pretty ridiculous. That is all you need to handle or buy a gun and ammo in the good old US of A.}

[YipYipYa123]

Number of Privately Owned Firearms

The estimated total number of guns (both licit and illicit) held by civilians in the United States is 270,000,000¹ to 310,000,000²

the estimated variance of the amount of guns in America (40 million firearms) would arm every Thai from 15-54 years old

15-24 years: 15.1% (male 5,181,468/female 4,975,083)

25-54 years: 45.6% (male 15,192,334/female 15,569,761)

^{When I got my FOID card (firearm owners ID) I mailed in a photo that I took myself with $10. Could have been a picture of anyone, pretty ridiculous. That is all you need to handle or buy a gun and ammo in the good old US of A.}

Is probably more than they do for most weapons that are in Thai hands at the moment

Maybe they compared it against your driving licence and passport pic without you knowing about it? USA is not exactly transparent when it comes to security measures

[ultimate weapon]

I am sure americans have a bigger variety of guns to choose from. They don't just one a small hand piece but some huge semi automatic with armor piercing bullets with a huge bore. Stuff like that. Their handguns need to be a hand cannon magnum or something similar to that and they'll post pictures of themselves doing poses with their guns and it isn't just the gangbangers that do it.

Remember the north hollywood shootout where 2 robbers had bullet proof armor reinforced along with armor piercing bullets and modified ak 47s they managed to keep the LAPD hiding and both of them could not be killed during the shootout until they ran out of bullets.

I doubt such a scenerio could occur in thailand where the robbers and mind you just 2 of them actually were more heavily armed compared to the police force which had helicopters and many officers, squad cars etc. The police ended up buying heavier weaponary from a gun store.

the police have sniper and semi automatic rifles and anything bigger than that is probably just a phone call away

at the nearest army base if requested

a ak47 modified is just set to full auto instead of semi -its not more powerful but armour piercing bullets would make cops

scared for sure

how long ago was this robbery ? and how much did they steal......or try to steal ?

You don't know about the north hollywood robbery? It occured in the 90s. Just 2 heavily armed men with body armor managed to keep the entire police force at bay it really looked bad to the police. They only managed to kill these 2 individuals after they finished up all their bullets. They were bad shots and didn't kill anyone just damaged some police cars and injured some ppl.

[wandasloan]

^{When I got my FOID card (firearm owners ID) I mailed in a photo that I took myself with $10. Could have been a picture of anyone, pretty ridiculous. That is all you need to handle or buy a gun and ammo in the good old US of A.}

Is probably more than they do for most weapons that are in Thai hands at the moment

Maybe they compared it against your driving licence and passport pic without you knowing about it? USA is not exactly transparent when it comes to security measures

This is obviously causing the common problem for people reading about America.

There is no such thing as a US FOID. Or driver's licence. These are local documents, vary greatly from place to place. (In fact the FOID is rare, period.)

The only real gun licences in almost all the US are licences to carry a concealed handgun when outside your home. Such documents are issued very locally by your police or sheriff. FOID are quite rare, in only a few places in the US. In almost all of America, you need no such "FOID" or any kind of licence to buy, own, keep, store, transport or use. In Colorado, for example, you need no licence at all to keep a fully loaded handgun in your car because Colorado law defines your car as part of your home — where of course you certainly need no licensing or supervision to keep tools on hand to defend yourself and property.

The American amaart above who posted how guns are loved by non-coastal compatriots apparently has not been to coastal America. The nation's most lax gun laws are in Vermont, not far from New York.

When buying almost any gun you will have to provide some ID such as a driver's licence, which is used for a quick (10-minute, maybe) check through the US Federal records to see if you have a record that would prohibit you from owning a gun. I learned all this not long ago when buying a very nice gun for my son at a Wal-Mart store. And I handled quite a few before buying, without any ID, with the generous and knowledgeable help of some clerks. And I bought ammunition without ID.

I think Khun Taco might well be from Chicago, for example, because in almost all of the United States you do not need any such special ID as his FOID to buy or handle any long or hand gun or ammunition — but in most places (not all) only to carry a handgun concealed on your body. Chicago, murder capital of America, has by far the tightest gun laws although it has been ordered by the courts to lighten up.

.

[smotherb]

Americans are required to own firearms by law--its actually in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights or something.

Can our Thai "brothers-in-arms" make that claim?

BTW, only 25 posts and you are already fishing the big waters with a topic like this.

I see a bright future ahead ;-)

Not so, ClutchClark. Americans are not required by law to own firearms--although some municipalities have proposed such a law. However, Americans are guaranteed the right to keep and bear arms under the 2nd amendment to our Constitution.

You see Clark, it's like this. A society can only advance as quickly as it slowest and dumbest people. This natural selection is far too time-consuming for a society to become the hegemon. As we all know, excessive availability of guns leads to increased deaths by guns. Naturally, guns kill the slowest and dumbest people first; making societal progress faster and more efficient. Consequently, the common availability of guns hastens societal progress; culling the herd, if you will.

[Som wat]

Nothing like centuries old Constitutions combined with 21st century technology.

[kowpot]

A Texas State Police Trooper pulled over an old 1955 Cadillac for a faulty taillight. When the officer approached the car, he noticed a little old lady behind the wheel.

The police officer asked the old lady for her license, registration, and insurance cards; however, when she opened up her pockbook to retrieve those cards, to his surprise he noticed a concealed weapon carry permit.

The trooper took all the documents, looked them over and said. "Mrs. Smith, I see you have a concealed weapon permit. Do you have a gun with you?"

Very sweetly and proudly the little old lady replied, " oh, yes officer, I have a Smith & Wesson 38 caliber pistol right here in my bag. Do you wish to see it?" And before he could reply, the old lady opened her handbag under his nose and sure enough, he immediately recognized the distinctive snub barrel of a Smith & Wesson 38.

Kind of taken aback, as a matter of formality he cautiously asked her, "do you have any other guns with you?"

To which the old lady boasted, " I also have a 357 magnum in my glove compartment", opening its cover and revealing its huge barrel.

The officer, flabbergasted, found himself then asking before any further thought on his part, but not really expecting anything more: "anything else?"

To which she replied, "why, yes, I also have a 44 magnum in my console, and a Mossberg 500 12 gauge shootgun in the trunk."

As you can imagine, at this point the police officer was at a total loss as to why an old lady would have in her possession such an arsenal of weapons, so thinking she was a bit crazy, he bent over, looked her in the eyes, and asked, "Lady, may I ask you what you are afraid of?"

To which the old lady locked eyes with the officer and calmly answered, "Not a damn thing!"

[Emster23]

I am American and have never owned a gun. Thailand has 3 times as many gun deaths as USA but only 1/5 the population. Many Americans may love guns, but that does not equal using it to settle petty arguments, as seems to be the case in Thailand. "Americans are required to own firearms by law--its actually in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights or something." Do a little research before shooting self in foot.

I agree gun deaths are too high in USA, and too easy to get guns that are more for assault than defence. Like driving, knowledge of how to use properly, enforcement of laws, and licensing are ignored in Thailand.

Comparing USA with other developed nations says nothing about original question. The old west as protrayed in movies isn't like it was. Many of those guys fought in civil war. If a gunslinger came into town and tried to take over, they would simply shoot him in the back and be rid of him like a rabid dog.

[David48]

Thailand has 3 times as many gun deaths as USA but only 1/5 the population.

Referance?

[usasia8888]

Americans are required to own firearms by law--its actually in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights or something.

Can our Thai "brothers-in-arms" make that claim?

BTW, only 25 posts and you are already fishing the big waters with a topic like this.

I see a bright future ahead ;-)

. Your are incorrect on thé "américans are required to own firearms"!!! Thé background is The Second Amendment (Amendment II) to the United States Constitution protects the right of individuals[1][2] to keep and bear arms.[3][4][5][6] The Supreme Court of the United States has ruled that the right vests in individuals, not merely collective militias, while also ruling that the right is not unlimited and does not prohibit all regulation of either firearms or similar devices.[7] State and local governments are limited to the same extent as the federal government from infringing this right per the incorporation of the Bill of Rights. The Second Amendment was adopted on December 15, 1791, as part of the first ten amendments comprising the Bill of Rights.

The Second Amendment was based partially on the right to keep and bear arms in English common-law and was influenced by the English Bill of Rights of 1689. Sir William Blackstone described this right as an auxiliary right, supporting the natural rights of self-defense, resistance to oppression, and the civic duty to act in concert in defense of the state.[8]

Edited May 15, 2014 by usasia8888

[ggt]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Regarding the first reply>> dear god please tell me you are being sarcastic.

silly topic but im bored and feel like hearing myself clack away.
Although I wouldn't use the word "love", I get your general point and the answer isn't even close.
Americans have a deep historical connection to guns.
They were the tools that helped free them from the clutches of the monarchy.
Have you ever realized you forgot to wear your watch after leaving the house and felt naked?
That would be the feeling settlers moving west had when they didn't have their gun. It offered protection and was a means of acquiring meat.
I got a Red Ryder BB gun when i was 9. Probably spent 200 hours shooting cans behind my house. Soon began taking our golden retriever up to my neighbors barn to shoot the pigeons that shit all over. Dog brought the birds back to our house in her mouth and boom, the cats had a meal.
My cousin is a true gunsmith, he has a full on love of guns and teaching about them.
One of the most impressive pieces built in my high school woodshop class was a beautiful wooden gun safe built by my best friends older brother. Kept the guns locked up and clean for when hunting season came around. We were taught at a young age that touching the safe meant you get the belt.
I'm sure there are some Thais who have similar sentiments, but i would be surprised if it is as widespread.

This is touching.

Americans love for weapons and war has bought them much disgrace, dislike and distrust worldwide.

Only a handful of Americans make the decision for war...enable spying...mistreatment of prisoners...

support overthrow of legitimate governments...create money from thin air...and cause the distrust

you mention...do not paint all Americans with your broad brush...this is classically called "hasty generalization"...

[northernjohn]

Most Thais out in the sticks use guns for hunting and actually eating what they have killed. American's its just a case of extending their manhood.

I may just have opened a can of worms but we are all entitled to an opinion.

They like to extend their manhood so the women will like them.

[Thaiready]

Regarding the first reply>> dear god please tell me you are being sarcastic.

silly topic but im bored and feel like hearing myself clack away.

Although I wouldn't use the word "love", I get your general point and the answer isn't even close.

Americans have a deep historical connection to guns.

They were the tools that helped free them from the clutches of the monarchy.

Have you ever realized you forgot to wear your watch after leaving the house and felt naked?

That would be the feeling settlers moving west had when they didn't have their gun. It offered protection and was a means of acquiring meat.

I got a Red Ryder BB gun when i was 9. Probably spent 200 hours shooting cans behind my house. Soon began taking our golden retriever up to my neighbors barn to shoot the pigeons that shit all over. Dog brought the birds back to our house in her mouth and boom, the cats had a meal.

My cousin is a true gunsmith, he has a full on love of guns and teaching about them.

One of the most impressive pieces built in my high school woodshop class was a beautiful wooden gun safe built by my best friends older brother. Kept the guns locked up and clean for when hunting season came around. We were taught at a young age that touching the safe meant you get the belt.

I'm sure there are some Thais who have similar sentiments, but i would be surprised if it is as widespread.

Oh my God another one!!! There is a real lot of you i think!!! When i was small we played indians and cowboys, but guess what... Than i did grow up....Why dont you.....the wild west are gone for ever and still you are creating wild west by all idiots in USA that are carrying guns and rifles and feeling like a pioneer......

You shoot children in school, you shoots your presidents, and you are killing all over the place..... When will you stop,,, will you ever stop.....

Glegolo

Edited May 15, 2014 by Thaiready

[Thaiready]

I own over 40 firearms in the States...proud of my collection...some people hate weapons some love them...to each his own.

But as a Great American once said "From my cold dead hands" thats the only way I'll surrender my guns.

[GlobalCtzn]

I am sure americans have a bigger variety of guns to choose from. They don't just one a small hand piece but some huge semi automatic with armor piercing bullets with a huge bore. Stuff like that. Their handguns need to be a hand cannon magnum or something similar to that and they'll post pictures of themselves doing poses with their guns and it isn't just the gangbangers that do it.

Remember the north hollywood shootout where 2 robbers had bullet proof armor reinforced along with armor piercing bullets and modified ak 47s they managed to keep the LAPD hiding and both of them could not be killed during the shootout until they ran out of bullets.

I doubt such a scenerio could occur in thailand where the robbers and mind you just 2 of them actually were more heavily armed compared to the police force which had helicopters and many officers, squad cars etc. The police ended up buying heavier weaponary from a gun store.

That was about 5 years ago. The pace at which U.S. police forces are militarizing is astounding. I seriously doubt the L.A. police will find themselves in that position again. Many police forces in the U.S. today are damn near equipped to go into Fallujah.

[Docno]

For Americans, guns are akin to sex-toys. They seem to really get off on them. (Not all of them, of course). The relationship is almost obsessional. And "relationship" is probably the right word in some case. Thais seem to be more practically minded when it comes to guns. A gun is more like a hammer or a slingshot... except deadlier.

I can easily imagine an American proclaiming "happiness is a warm gun"; not a Thai...