21k electricity bill, 2br

[pjmansions]

got fout bedroom hse and i top about 2500 a month in the hot season i;d rip aircon out if i was paying that much cool season paid about 800 baht

[Strangebrew]

first of all you in a all thai building? Cause sounds like your paying for everyones electric I run my 24/7 and a whopping 2500 baht thats including 6 showers a day.

[amse]

Someone maybe tapping your electricity?

[Refresh]

You are paying for your neighbours too - ask them to turn their aircon down, save you some money;)

[hugocnx]

Every time the unit switches on there is an enormous power consumption. This is caused by the starting up of the compressor.

The current flowing at that moment is sky high.

If what you state is right, the unit is 21600 W, which means 98 Amps at 220 V. Now imagine what peak current you may have when the unit starts up.

Nah, the extra startup power wouldn't really affect the total cost that much.

Let's say that the unit draws x10 (ten times) the normal power during a two second startup of the motors. Two second is 1/1800 of an hour. So the extra consumption would be 21.6KWH x 10 x (1/1800) = 0.12 KWH extra.

That's next to nothing. At least if the unit is started once an hour. It it's restarted every minute then it would be a different matter.

I am not a typical aircon technician. Though the switch on peak makes the difference hence today there is the invertor type which avoids that criterium.

So why would they invent that.

Okay, I settle for your calculation. I pay all-in 4.55 Baht per KwH at a regular house. Most condo owners/renters get a bill of 150%, so let's say 6 Baht per KwH for this issue.

So, 0.12 KwH that would mean 0.6 KwH by 5 start ups/hour = 3.6 Baht/hour= 86.4 Baht a day = 2628 per month only for start ups. So that looks maybe peanuts, but many people need less for a whole month all-in.

5 start ups per hour and running for 2 minutes = only 10 minutes per hour.

So, 21.6 KwH *10/60 (running time)*24(1 day)*365(1 year)*6(Baht/KwH)/12(months) = 15768 Baht per month. Together with the start up peaks = 18396 Baht per month

I think only running 10 minutes per hour (though all day) is a low estimate.

Think OP cannot complaint. I mean, how many people are using the shower unit(s); how many appliances in the house?

Having your computer on all day, including printer and screen may already cost you 1000 or more a month

I stick to my advice already mentioned and hope I didn't forget a factor 10 here or there

[hugocnx]

If this 74000 BTU unit is not of an invertor type, than you have the following problem.

Every time the unit switches on there is an enormous power consumption. This is caused by the starting up of the compressor.

The current flowing at that moment is sky high.

If what you state is right, the unit is 21600 W, which means 98 Amps at 220 V. Now imagine what peak current you may have when the unit starts up.

That unit equals 6 average living room or bedroom units, so is probably a bit overseized, meaning it reaches the desired temperature quickly, shuts down, but switches on again early because your area is a hot spot. Thus meaning, you have many 'on switching 'per hour/day and that's what's costing you.

Most probably every time it switches on you can see the lights in the house dim for a short while.

My advice is to replace that unit by 2 24000 BTU units of the invertor type. Them compressors don't switch of completely when idle.

Direct saving is to turn your room temp down a couple degrees. If the room is dry, you already feel alot more comfortable even at 28 degrees and switch the demon of when you leave the building.

I doubt that is the problem here, but just guessing. I have a combined 66k BTU in the 4 units in my house, all are non-inverter types. All four are usually running about 16 hours a day, and the bedroom unit remains on almost 24/7. My house has zero insulation, and zero roof venting, so I am absolutely brute-forcing the heat with electric power (I just consider it part of the rent) and I'm still coming out at "only" 8k/month. I don't think OPs huge bill is because the unit is a non-inverter, or slightly over-sized. Though replacing the unit might fix the problem anyway, since there may just be something wrong with it.

Yes, agreed too. See my earlier post

Edited May 16, 2014 by hugocnx

[thrilled]

Something sounds wrong.You sure your the only one using it.I have heard of people stealing electricity

[vento]

ok. thanks for all the input and advices

Im not paying for another tenants bill, since unit had beem empty for a while before moving in. First bill was 10k for about the 10 days i lived there :/

Next bill was 21k and today gf went to pay the bill and it turns out we are not the first to complain. They told my gf they had a guy in same tower with a 60k bill (properly one of the very big units). The guy actually told my gf that our ACs was to big and we should consider replacing with smaller ones. Either way they offered to test our meters.

I dont think someone is tapping into my power, the condos are rather expensive and and most owners and tenants here are professionals and i think most have housing paid by company... but yes. you never know, so i will get it testet.

It seems that the outside part of the system is 2 "fans" or something. these seems like they are connected. not sure. there is only one label on the backside.

There is 3 seperate controllers in the condo. one in living room, built in the cieling and one in each bedroom.

[hugocnx]

BTW Vento, what KwH price is mentioned on your electricity bill, if any specification at all. Just total KwH will do as well. Thanks.

[GinBoy2]

There is not enough airon on the planet to account for this. I just got my PEA bill today for 8000฿, which is usual for this time of year, but I'm an aircon junkie, 3 bedrooms, living room and kitchen. Are you paying the PEA/MEA bill directly or paying through the condo? If its the condo, they may well be charging you 3x the real rate. The paying the previous tenants unpaid bill is also a possibility. Dirty aircon units, hmmm to create that that kinda bill they basically won't be working

[hugocnx]

Duh, extra cost post for you. You have 380 Volts or let's call it three phase 220V.

Quite expensive in Thailand. Forgot about that.

Of course the Condominium has 380 V more or less standard.

Other thing is what they charge you with.

So many questions, so little answers.

Edited May 16, 2014 by hugocnx

[T_Dog]

vento.....

Assuming you pay 4 baht per unit of electricity, here is what it would cost if the compressor on that 3 phase monster ran at a 100 % duty cycle and all day and night:

21,700/1000 units/hr * 24 hrs use per day * 30 days * 4 baht per unit = 62,496 baht per month.

If you have a different electric rate than 4, just substitute that rate in above. Usually, air conditioners do not cool all the time, so if you have a gut feel for what percentage of the time the compressor is running, like 50%, just multiply the cost by that percentage. The room circulation fan only draws about 50 watts which does not amount to much cost.

Lucky for you that the compressor is not running at 100% duty cycle!

[Naam]

Buttom line... is 21k/month normal at this time of year?

it's not normal for a 90m² apartment! i got my bill today which is 20,747 Baht (april 16 - may 16) but i am maintaining ~650m² living area at ~26.5ºC (some areas at 27º, others at 25º). aircon cost is presently around 60-65% of the total consumption.

-setting is usually low fan, 27 degree

-When on auto, i usually have 24-25 degree setting

please define "usually" because there's a huge big difference in consumption between a 27º and a 24-25º setting. also measure your actual room temperature which might be 22-23º which you don't realise because you are

from a cold country

p.s. for testing purposes i tried once, during a moderately hot month (october), to "max cool" our home for exactly 24 hours, meaning all units were running full blast. the temperature reached was an average of 22º, calculated power consumption was 29kWh/hour = 696kWh/day = 20,880kWh extrapolated for a month = cost 102,360 Baht at prevailing electricity price (4.90Baht) just for cooling; no other power consuming gadgets added.

summary: temperature setting does make a difference!

[vento]

ok, seems like it was 22.5k baht and not 21k as first assumed

[vento]

as for setting... sometimes i use 24-25 degree, other times 27. i guess i dont have a strict pattern to follow (which i properly should have)

[Procrastinator]

350 sqare meters of house, four air cons, a couple of big TVs, pool and pond, garden lights on all night, etc..... We don't actively try to minimize electricity use, and our bill is usually around 12000 baht

Twice this for a smaller area ( under 100 sq/ m) without the add ons, seems totally crazy.

I 100% agree with earlier responses... Contact someone immediately... Have the air con cleaned..... Find out whos stealing your power..... Thats just a crazy amount..

[Procrastinator]

Umm..... Unfortunately i don't read thai, but all those small 1000 baht amounts in the bottom line, may well suggest that you have just paid a years worth of someone else's bill.

Someone smarter than i will undoubtedly comment on these smaller (accumulating?) amounts..

Hope you sort it quickly and good luck with it

[vento]

No one is stealing power. i tried cut off all power and meter was not running.

[Pib]

ok. thanks for all the input and advices

Im not paying for another tenants bill, since unit had beem empty for a while before moving in. First bill was 10k for about the 10 days i lived there :/

Next bill was 21k and today gf went to pay the bill and it turns out we are not the first to complain. They told my gf they had a guy in same tower with a 60k bill (properly one of the very big units). The guy actually told my gf that our ACs was to big and we should consider replacing with smaller ones. Either way they offered to test our meters.

I dont think someone is tapping into my power, the condos are rather expensive and and most owners and tenants here are professionals and i think most have housing paid by company... but yes. you never know, so i will get it testet.

It seems that the outside part of the system is 2 "fans" or something. these seems like they are connected. not sure. there is only one label on the backside.

There is 3 seperate controllers in the condo. one in living room, built in the cieling and one in each bedroom.

Sounds like you really have a "central air conditioning system" with a very BIG condenser (outside unit) for only a 90sq/mtr residence. If you are letting this system pretty much run 24/7 to keep the place cool I can understand the monthly bill you are getting. It's so large I expect you could turn your residence into a meat freezer room if desired.

Usually for split air systems with a evaporator (inside unit) and a condenser (outside unit) we are usually talking 12K BTU to 20K BTU per room...depending on the room size, outside temperature where you live, etc. Turn on the room specific system when using that room like the bedroom at night....better to have a 12K-20K BTU cooling system for your room at night versus a HUGE 74K BTU system Having just one BIG outside unit to feed/cool the freon going to the inside units can be a electricity pig as the outside unit could be big time overkill (electricity/power pig) say just to cool one room at night like your bedroom...but a lot depends on the overall design of the system.

Gosh, when I still lived in Hawaii the central air condenser/system (outside unit) for my 4 bedroom, 2 story home was only 48K BTU...it cooled OK but probably should had been up around 60K BTU for the whole house. Some central air systems can be power pigs unless they are designed properly and you can control cooling room by room.

[vento]

Lightning

i never really thinked about this, but i just counted, i have some 22 halogen built in the cieling around the condo. if all turned on, it will add to the bill, but off course they are not turned on in day/night time but only during evening.

I did some testing turning ligtning on/off and its quite visible for me to see the change in speed of the meter

But these halagen must have some transformers also right? maybe they use power even if not turned on?

So could it be a combo of an oversized/userused AC and power hungry halogens?

[vento]

Usually for split air systems with a evaporator (inside unit) and a condenser (outside unit) we are usually talking 12K BTU to 20K BTU per room...depending on the room size, outside temperature where you live, etc. Turn on the room specific system when using that room like the bedroom at night....better to have a 12K-20K BTU cooling system for your room at night versus a HUGE 74K BTU system Having just one BIG outside unit to feed/cool the freon going to the inside units can be a electricity pig as the outside unit could be big time overkill (electricity/power pig) say just to cool one room at night like your bedroom...but a lot depends on the overall design of the system.

i googled the modul number and found following

http://www.lg.com/in/support-product/lg-ARUV80LL2

which looks excatly like my outside unit. one big combined unit almost 2 meter high.

So it looks like you are right, this is the big unit im turning on, even if only using ac in a bedroom

about if its centralized or not. it not sound like the unit in the living room are running when only using ac in one bedroom.

Im not sure about the blowers/Fans inside, how much power they consume. i mean, its not just the outside unit which consumes power right? But how much they use, i have no idea

[hugocnx]

I think the person who bought this system got framed big time.

And now you have the heritage.

Good luck with it.

[Gulfsailor]

Trade in the big A/C for one half the size. Use the money you get from this deal to pay the electricity bill. Don't mention it to the condo owner...

[bobo42]

Just FYI I just googled and found the service manual for this unit (based on the pics posted), which shows that the AC unit in question is indeed an inverter. You would think that this would be more efficient than my own non-inverter ACs (with similar sum total btu), not less. Seriously, there is something broken, or screwed up with the bill.

[Greg Nixon]

Try styrofoam available at teacher's store lined on the sunny side with aluminium foil. Put these in the windows. Rig it to be easily removable when you want a view. Otherwise try an east or North facing view.

[KittenKong]

My bill for a 60+sqm condo at 28 degrees 24/7 running an old 24KBTU air-con unit was about 4-5000Baht/month at government rate direct. The windows/doors cover one entire wall of the condo. The balcony is always sunny but direct sun only falls on the windows for a few hours at certain times of year. Even so I can feel the outside heat through the glass and aluminium frame all day, so insulation isn't up to much.

I bought a new inverter model of the same power and my monthly bill dropped to well under 2000B. This includes lighting, shower, TV, PC, oven, fridge etc etc

[Naam]

Just FYI I just googled and found the service manual for this unit (based on the pics posted), which shows that the AC unit in question is indeed an inverter. You would think that this would be more efficient than my own non-inverter ACs (with similar sum total btu), not less. Seriously, there is something broken, or screwed up with the bill.

based on your description of the condo in combination with a certain runtime with a 22-23ºC setting an inverter will be not more energy efficient than a conventional unit.

TV-member Kitten-Kong's 28ºC setting gives him obviously an excellent result.

[Naam]

Sounds like you really have a "central air conditioning system" with a very BIG condenser (outside unit) for only a 90sq/mtr residence. If you are letting this system pretty much run 24/7 to keep the place cool I can understand the monthly bill you are getting. It's so large I expect you could turn your residence into a meat freezer room if desired.

Usually for split air systems with a evaporator (inside unit) and a condenser (outside unit) we are usually talking 12K BTU to 20K BTU per room...depending on the room size, outside temperature where you live, etc. Turn on the room specific system when using that room like the bedroom at night....better to have a 12K-20K BTU cooling system for your room at night versus a HUGE 74K BTU system Having just one BIG outside unit to feed/cool the freon going to the inside units can be a electricity pig as the outside unit could be big time overkill (electricity/power pig) say just to cool one room at night like your bedroom...but a lot depends on the overall design of the system.

Gosh, when I still lived in Hawaii the central air condenser/system (outside unit) for my 4 bedroom, 2 story home was only 48K BTU...it cooled OK but probably should had been up around 60K BTU for the whole house. Some central air systems can be power pigs unless they are designed properly and you can control cooling room by room.

Pib,

i suspect that the ducts in his false ceiling are not insulated. after all... This Is Thailand. if that is the case he is cooling the concrete ceiling and the air space between that ceiling and the false gypsum board ceiling (which has quite some insulation value) prevents efficiency.

summary: a lose/lose situation which no swap of the unit can rectify.

checking whether my assumption is correct can be done to remove a few light fixtures next to an outlet and trying to see a part of the ducts.

if that is the case, the cost of removing the gypsum boards and insulate the ducts is prohibitive.

Edited May 17, 2014 by Naam

[Naam]

Duh, extra cost post for you. You have 380 Volts or let's call it three phase 220V.

Quite expensive in Thailand. Forgot about that.

Of course the Condominium has 380 V more or less standard.

Other thing is what they charge you with.

So many questions, so little answers.

there is no difference in price between a single-phase and a three-phase connection! the OP used 4,642 kWh and paid 22,459 Baht = 4.80/kWh (which includes a 0.69 Baht fuel surcharge and 7% VAT, id est quite normal.

[Naam]

vento.....

Assuming you pay 4 baht per unit of electricity, here is what it would cost if the compressor on that 3 phase monster ran at a 100 % duty cycle and all day and night:

21,700/1000 units/hr * 24 hrs use per day * 30 days * 4 baht per unit = 62,496 baht per month.

If you have a different electric rate than 4, just substitute that rate in above. Usually, air conditioners do not cool all the time, so if you have a gut feel for what percentage of the time the compressor is running, like 50%, just multiply the cost by that percentage. The room circulation fan only draws about 50 watts which does not amount to much cost.

Lucky for you that the compressor is not running at 100% duty cycle!

the OP used 4,679 Baht = 215 hours running time/month = 7.2 running hours daily = compressor running time ~33%.

total bill 22,459 Baht = average price per kWh = 4.80 Baht.