Thai Immigration: Border insecurity mounts as tourist visa abuse is targeted

[Bucko]

You cannot travel to Australia, Britain, America, Canada or any other such nation, and walk in and start working in any capacity without applying for a work visa.

Whether they are taking a potential job away from a Thai resident is irrelevant, a non tourist person who works without the proper paperwork is an illegal alien, you would be the same in just about any other country in the world so what is your problem?

True ..

But certainly speaking from an Australian view there are plenty who do ! ..Just as in Thai , hospitality , cleaning , cash business ..

many other examples , its pretty similar .

Same here in N.Z.--with Chinese mainly

The immigration Minister at the time said " People coming here from China/Asia --will stimulate our economy - and increase employment "--what he did not say -- is that Chinese employ Chinese -in most cases--see it all the time with houses being built for Chinese owners -workers hanging off all over the building--many serving time to get a N.Z passport--then off to Australia is another option.

.

Edited May 18, 2014 by Bucko

[AYJAYDEE]

You cannot travel to Australia, Britain, America, Canada or any other such nation, and walk in and start working in any capacity without applying for a work visa.

Whether they are taking a potential job away from a Thai resident is irrelevant, a non tourist person who works without the proper paperwork is an illegal alien, you would be the same in just about any other country in the world so what is your problem?

True ..

But certainly speaking from an Australian view there are plenty who do ! ..Just as in Thai , hospitality , cleaning , cash business ..

many other examples , its pretty similar .

Same here in N.Z.--with Chinese mainly

The immigration Minister at the time said " People coming here from China/Asia --will stimulate our economy - and increase employment "--what he did not say -- is that Chinese employ Chinese -in most cases--see it all the time with houses being built for Chinese owners -workers hanging off all over the building--many serving time to get a N.Z passport--then off to Australia is another option.

.

a lot of employment besides construction labour goes into a new house.

[Bucko]

You cannot travel to Australia, Britain, America, Canada or any other such nation, and walk in and start working in any capacity without applying for a work visa.

Whether they are taking a potential job away from a Thai resident is irrelevant, a non tourist person who works without the proper paperwork is an illegal alien, you would be the same in just about any other country in the world so what is your problem?

True ..

But certainly speaking from an Australian view there are plenty who do ! ..Just as in Thai , hospitality , cleaning , cash business ..

many other examples , its pretty similar .

Same here in N.Z.--with Chinese mainly

The immigration Minister at the time said " People coming here from China/Asia --will stimulate our economy - and increase employment "--what he did not say -- is that Chinese employ Chinese -in most cases--see it all the time with houses being built for Chinese owners -workers hanging off all over the building--many serving time to get a N.Z passport--then off to Australia is another option.

.

a lot of employment besides construction labour goes into a new house.

Yes --agree with that---

but not much consolation for a local carpenter looking for a job.

Also --as an example--a new Joiners Shop has opened up near us--making Kitchen /Bathroom cabinets and such like--Chinese owned--and guess what ??

[rebelplatoon]

Going backwards where most neighbours are going forward. Aaaaah the phue chart remark is there again and the underlying idea is jobs for the Thai, own people first.

Let me sum that up: For our people, for our fatherland, our own first. Where did I hear that before?

It is a nuisance for visitors who d like to visit Thailand and in the process check out myanmar, visit vientiane and do Angkor Vat. Which is the usual plan for a lot of genuine tourists. Get the proper visa you say? That s a triple entry! In euro s 90 Euro! Maybe better off visiting Malaysia, Indonesia or PDR.

[edwarda909]

Pol Col Sangkhom Tadso, immigration chief in Mukdahan which borders Laos, told Spectrum that his staff had been enforcing the changes for the past two weeks, mainly targeting South Koreans. “There are 8,000 Thais deported from South Korea every year, while Thai immigration only deports 20 South Koreans per year,”

The above is a big problem and should be addressed, those Koreans are going to feel the wrath of a Thai retaliation for the Korean Governments Xenophobia.

For example if Thailand ever deports / refuses entry to 8000 British people in one year I would certainly expect that the British government will make it much harder for any Thai to ever step foot inside the UK, most probably by just preventing visas from being issued. No matter how hard it is right now I would expect it to get much harder in future. If refusals go up by 100% then this should be reciprocated. European bureaucrats are very good at this sort of thing and it would be foolish to think there won't be retaliations from countries around the world. In the UK there is a widespread dislike of foreigners working in the country illegally and there's even a 'border force' which goes around foreign owned businesses like restaurants arresting people on the spot and throwing them in jail - I think we will see more Thai owned businesses in the UK targeted as a result of this.

The airlines are going to go nuts over this issue as August 12th approaches as the initial responsibility for correct documentation falls to them and they will come up with a set of very specifically defined rules which should guarantee entrance on arrival as there are fines for the airline if anyone is refused entrance on arrival due to incorrect documentation.

The reason US Immigration have a presence in Ireland and other countries has nothing to do with convenience for the traveller - it's so people can be refused entrance to the US before they even get on the plane. This way they will have airlines who still fly the route without massive liability risks and costs to themselves when someone is deported on entry.

This statement is very misinformed. It is EXTREMELY DIFFICULT for a thai person to get a tourist visa to visit the USA. I have tried to help a friend get one. SHe owns a rice farm, and apparently fit some profile in the mind of the USA embassy official in CM, he would not even look at all the documentation we had establishing her ties to Thailand. So, really, Thailand is far behind USA in scrutinzing potential visitors. This embassy official is an idiot, meanwhile, politicians in AMerica talk about amnesty for millions of illegal immigrants, who broke the law. The USA is so ass backwards.

[chrisinth]

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The system in place is abusive and inconvenient to long-time visitors and workers.

However, if you have a lot of money and don't mind spending it, all the hassles melt away.

I disagree, I am a "long time visitor" and an worker here and have never been abused or been inconvenienced by the system in the least..

I would agree with that 100%. There is a process for employment here in Thailand and as long as that process is understood and the correct paperwork submitted, it is not only easy but fair as well. It may not be properly understood by many, but as a foreigner legally working in Thailand, you also have the full support of the labor laws of the country.

As for long term visitors, there are options for those under the age of 50 available. But these options are heavily criticized as most are dependent on financial targets. The worst critics are the ones who can't meet these targets. (Elite card & investment).

There is also options for further education (ed-visa) and marriage for those willing to commit. Same sex marriage is not recognized in Thailand, so that option would be out for some.

Of course the easy argument is to relate the situation in your home countries to that currently employed by immigration in Thailand. But for those who want that argument, take a step backwards and ask yourself who actually has it right with immigration issues, Thailand or your home country? I know which one I would choose, and like my home country to adopt it................

[chrisinth]

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Joking aside, Thailand certainly is changing, and adopting western standards, good or bad.

Honestly, I'd say they're sticking with the Asian angle quite nicely, as what they're doing is fairly draconian. If a Western govt decided to do a crackdown like this, they'd give notice, have media campaigns, most likely provide a pathway to amnesty and a way to legally apply / stay, etc.

But nope, not Thailand. Just going to straight out deport and blacklist everyone they don't like, no notice, no questions asked. Well, ok then... have fun in three years from now with your media campaigns trying to attract foriengers and tourists again, because the numbers dropped so low.

Yes, I can understand your comments. But, there has been nothing new added. This problem has happened because ironically immigration have been doing these people a favour in the past by allowing them to do multiple border jumps and have now decided to enforce restrictions as per their books.

The reason this doesn't normally happen in the west is that there is no relaxing of current laws (in most countries). This is what appears difficult for some people to understand.

[neverdie]

Wow, did Thailand every totally botch this. I wonder if they realize how much long-term damage they're doing? For a long time it was arms wide open with a welcoming smile, please come in and enjoy, so that's what many people did. Many people setup lives here, worked hard, spent lots of money, purchased real estate, setup businesses that contributed to the overall economy, invested, etc.

Ok people have done everything you have said they have done, they are not stopping you doing any of this, they just want you to have the proper paperwork for what it is your doing in Thailand, that's all

IMHO, its not a botch up at all, its not even new, the rules have always been there, all that's happened, and there own admission, they have been slack in in enforcing the rules, they have now decided to enforce said rules, the screams on xenophobia/racism etc may have been warranted if they had introduced new rules, but they haven't..... the rules have always been there.

Lets face reality, is it really smart to thrown your "whole lot" into country, you don't have the legal right of abode in ? without the possibility of getting that right of abode for most people under the current requirements and I am not even talking about citizenship, I am taking about PR.

Is it really smart throwing your "lot in" into a country where you have to rely on the whim of an immigration officer to give you permission to stay for another year.

I've tried to hit 'like' on so many of your posts here, but it won't work for me, so I'm left,with no option but to reply.

You keep nailing many points on this issue but I suspect most of them will go over certain peoples heads.

A lot of the things you are saying here were things that my father said to me here many decades ago and his motive for doing so had nothing to do with changing visa laws.

I'm not here to mock a certain group of people, however what is clear is that all people have certain options to take,they will need to stop, pick and choose carefully and move on. Trying to stay on the right side of the rule will normally always return better results. However there are no guarantees.

I also agree that for some people, visa cateogries won't fit them and whilst that is unfortunate a choice still needs to be made. It is and will be a pity that some genuine and law abiding people that don't fit or can't fit to a certain category are forced to leave, but let's face it, there's not many guarantees left in life these days, basically only taxes and death can be relied on.

Best of luck to all. At some point for probably every class of 'Visa' holder here there will be a change coming in the future, albeit near or distant. One just needs to be aware of that and include that FACT on virtually every decision they make whilst living here.

Citizens of the country have a whole lot of other burdens they must face, most of them on a daily basis.

[AYJAYDEE]

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Joking aside, Thailand certainly is changing, and adopting western standards, good or bad.

Honestly, I'd say they're sticking with the Asian angle quite nicely, as what they're doing is fairly draconian. If a Western govt decided to do a crackdown like this, they'd give notice, have media campaigns, most likely provide a pathway to amnesty and a way to legally apply / stay, etc.

But nope, not Thailand. Just going to straight out deport and blacklist everyone they don't like, no notice, no questions asked. Well, ok then... have fun in three years from now with your media campaigns trying to attract foriengers and tourists again, because the numbers dropped so low.

Yes, I can understand your comments. But, there has been nothing new added. This problem has happened because ironically immigration have been doing these people a favour in the past by allowing them to do multiple border jumps and have now decided to enforce restrictions as per their books.

The reason this doesn't normally happen in the west is that there is no relaxing of current laws (in most countries). This is what appears difficult for some people to understand.

in fact it does happen in the west and I have seen the americans do it

[fullcave]

Not that I am advocating illegal working, but are foreigners really taking jobs of Thais? It's difficult enough to find Thai staff as it is, and I don't think there is a massive pool of Korean and Russian speaking Thais

If indeed they are "taking jobs" it would be more effective to simply check for work permit. No need to assume anything really.

Edited May 19, 2014 by fullcave

[PattayaPhom]

why not make it so people can work and pay taxes?

I think that option is already available by obtaining a work permit, which isnt that difficult.

[NanLaew]

why not make it so people can work and pay taxes?

Why stop at the workers?

I wonder how many of the recently thwarted, perpetual-tourist, visa exemption abusers will be happy to pay the taxes they owe the Thai government if they stay more than 180 days in LOS in any taxation calendar year?

I wonder how many will be crying foul when the fingerprint scanners and Immigration data is shared with Revenue Department (just like it is done in the US, UK and many other 'civilised' countries).

This isn't about illegal workers or stolen passports. This is ULTIMATELY about TAX REVENUE.

[lineofentry]

If you abuse the system what do you expect - no other country will put up with the nonsense of people coming and going as if it is their right to do so. A tourist visa is a tourist visa - not an invitation to stay for ever.

You think Immigration really cares about making it right? Get real man. Don't blame the people who are

simply trying to make a living. Blame the corruption within the system if you want to blame somebody or

something. Just like this current political crisis, it's going to be the same. At the end of the crisis, the country

is going to be ruled by a godfather. It's only an issue of whether the godfather comes from the north or the

south. Likewise, Immigration will remain the same. It's only an issue of where the money is being directed -

to the border officers or to the higher ranking embassy/consulate officers. And it looks like now the money is shifting towards the higher ranked folks.

Hit the nail on the head, move to western style corruption, everything under central control and made to look legitimate.

[Tony125]

Pol Lt Gen Pharnu said it did not matter how a tourist entered Thailand — whether it be with 15-, 30- or 90-day visa exemptions — if they exited a border checkpoint and tried to reenter at the same point they would have to satisfy border control officials that their reason for travel is tourism. He also added that it did not matter what country the visitor came from.

This same scrutiny would apply to multiple-entry tourist visas issued by the Thai embassy in an individual’s home country. They could also be asked to provide evidence of financial support, which is typically 20,000 baht.

**** Correct me if I am wrong Ubonjoe but the above excerpt from the posting seems to indicate that even if one gets a multi entry tourist visa in their home country from a Thai consulate or embassy they could still be denied entry to Thailand if some border agent was in bad mood . Not saying the right to enter is alawys up to the agent but just saying there is no set rules that we can follow besides maybe being lucky enought to have a non -o say by reason of marriage or age (retirement) or business visa to enter Thailand. You said the cracdown would only affect those coming in on visa exempt but looks like even with any visa one could get from home country could still be barred from entering and even be banned for 5 years (or life) ?

[Tony125]

when the <deleted> are governments gonna collapse??? after another war?

govt = mafia

ppl = brain washed by govt school language

solidee = govt hit man

How that Yala Girlfriend working out for you? we haven't seen any updates.

[slygeeza]

the idea that immigrants steal jobs is not based on any economical reality, but on racism

Please look up the definition of racism and come back here.

thanks for the advise, but i decided ignor prefs was more relevant

[LivinLOS]

Do you love Thailand? Pol Lt Gen Pharnu said he asked the complaining operators. I told them that if you love our country, you must understand that these types of tourists are destroying our country by stealing jobs from Thais.

Thai people can't do this in other countries. Why would we let people from other countries do this to us? We have been kind to these people for so long. Now it's time to be stricter about the law."

I see and feel your kindness everyday, how could I have been so blind. Thank you for showing me the light, I didn't realise that by bringing my entire salary into this country and using it all to support my Thai wife and daughter and Thailand without any chance of ownership or rights in return, that I was being so thoughtless and selfish, sorry

can a Thai do the same in your country?

If they can show significant assets, in UK terms not Thai ones, sure..

My sister in law.. Went back to UK.. Worked 3 jobs.. Just became a citizen and at the same time sent the money out of england to Thailand purchasing almost 3 rai and sort of 3 houses.

How many farangs come to Thailand, work here and buy 3 houses in the west in under 5 years, while being naturalized and made a full citizen with all rights ??

[hawker9000]

Only really wanting to know what's actually happening at checkpoints, I just skipped over pgs 1-10. I didn't miss anything useful, did I?

[AYJAYDEE]

Do you love Thailand? Pol Lt Gen Pharnu said he asked the complaining operators. I told them that if you love our country, you must understand that these types of tourists are destroying our country by stealing jobs from Thais.

Thai people can't do this in other countries. Why would we let people from other countries do this to us? We have been kind to these people for so long. Now it's time to be stricter about the law."

I see and feel your kindness everyday, how could I have been so blind. Thank you for showing me the light, I didn't realise that by bringing my entire salary into this country and using it all to support my Thai wife and daughter and Thailand without any chance of ownership or rights in return, that I was being so thoughtless and selfish, sorry

can a Thai do the same in your country?

If they can show significant assets, in UK terms not Thai ones, sure..

My sister in law.. Went back to UK.. Worked 3 jobs.. Just became a citizen and at the same time sent the money out of england to Thailand purchasing almost 3 rai and sort of 3 houses.

How many farangs come to Thailand, work here and buy 3 houses in the west in under 5 years, while being naturalized and made a full citizen with all rights ??

youre saying that anyone with a certain amount of money can emigrate to britain?

[chiang mai]

Yes.

[AYJAYDEE]

Yes.

how much?

[Soutpeel]

Yes.

how much?

If memory serves about GBP 200k

[Soutpeel]

If it about money for the government why not just allow people to pay 1,900 baht a month at immigration and by pass

the visa run bus companies.

Cos maybe its not about money ?

[AYJAYDEE]

Yes.

how much?

If memory serves about GBP 200k

what an insane policy, no wonder britain is screwed

[AYJAYDEE]

Yes.

how much?

If memory serves about GBP 200k

i dont see one for less than 1 million pounds. that isnt allowing anyone to come, its targeted at rich investors. thats hardly the same thing as everyone wants thailand to do.

[chiang mai]

I believe it's a lot more than that, if I recall correctly it was a case of investing £1 million for five years, not dissimilar to the Thai BOI scheme.

[AYJAYDEE]

I believe it's a lot more than that, if I recall correctly it was a case of investing £1 million for five years, not dissimilar to the Thai BOI scheme. SO YOUR SISTER IN LAW INVESTED 1 MILLION POUNDS? THATS HARDLY THE SAME AS LETTING ANYONE into thecountry

Edited May 19, 2014 by AYJAYDEE

[Jonmarleesco]

Immigration Bureau Commissioner Pol Lt Gen Pharnu Kerdlarpphon told Spectrum '... we have to make money somehow ...'

A middle-aged Korean restaurant owner ... had to pay local police protection money. 'We really had no choice but allow them to come and eat for free ... once a year, they collected the protection fee to give us the freedom to run the business.'

[chiang mai]

I believe it's a lot more than that, if I recall correctly it was a case of investing £1 million for five years, not dissimilar to the Thai BOI scheme. SO YOUR SISTER IN LAW INVESTED 1 MILLION POUNDS? THATS HARDLY THE SAME AS LETTING ANYONE into thecountry

Confirmed at £1 mill.

"If, however, you have no other right to reside in the UK, you may want to consider applying under the 'Investor' category of tier 1 of the points-based system.

You do not need a job offer to apply under this category. When you apply, you are awarded points based on your ability to invest £1,000,000 in the UK."

http://community.findlaw.co.uk/immigration-6/will-buying-property-uk-get-me-residency-97/

[LivinLOS]

Do you love Thailand? Pol Lt Gen Pharnu said he asked the complaining operators. I told them that if you love our country, you must understand that these types of tourists are destroying our country by stealing jobs from Thais.

Thai people can't do this in other countries. Why would we let people from other countries do this to us? We have been kind to these people for so long. Now it's time to be stricter about the law."

I see and feel your kindness everyday, how could I have been so blind. Thank you for showing me the light, I didn't realise that by bringing my entire salary into this country and using it all to support my Thai wife and daughter and Thailand without any chance of ownership or rights in return, that I was being so thoughtless and selfish, sorry

can a Thai do the same in your country?

If they can show significant assets, in UK terms not Thai ones, sure..

My sister in law.. Went back to UK.. Worked 3 jobs.. Just became a citizen and at the same time sent the money out of england to Thailand purchasing almost 3 rai and sort of 3 houses.

How many farangs come to Thailand, work here and buy 3 houses in the west in under 5 years, while being naturalized and made a full citizen with all rights ??

youre saying that anyone with a certain amount of money can emigrate to britain?

For the purposes of tourism yes..

If married yes..

If nothing else.. Then its a chunk of money but yes..

Compare UK pre tax average wages.. To 1 mil GBP then compare Thai pre tax wages to the 10 mil investor visa !!

And as I point out, how many farangs come here, export their wages earnt here, and end up within 4 or so years buying 3 houses (sort of !! sheds more like) back in the west ??

Edited May 19, 2014 by LivinLOS