Thai Govt proposes new poll on 3 Aug

[marcusd]

Idiots. Martial,law declared and decides

Marcusd. Via tapatalk

[casualbiker]

PTP is finished, and the current proxy caretaker PM has no influence at all.

Reforms first now, before the elections.

Please specify in detail the reforms you are calling for.

The whole point and stated many times by Suthep and PDRC is that reforms would be looked at and drawn up by a reform council / committee encompassing people from all walks of life.. and then decided on by the people then elections with a time period in the region of 18-24 months. In the meantime an interim government (without politicians) would administer the country!

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Oh that's OK then. You believe that's a good idea?

In the current situation for Thailand as an aspiring democracy (it's a few years away) yes. I do!

Do you believe that Thailand needs political reforms? Answer honestly!

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[BlueNoseCodger]

Unbelievable. Martial law has just been imposed without the governments prior knowledge and they want to carry on as if they still hold all the aces.

What does martial law actually change?

The buildings the army controlled, it still controls.

The army in Bangkok was in Bangkok before.

They failed to prevent a grenade attack on PDRC guards, so despite General Prayuths swagger, he doesn't have the current numbers to secure Bangkok, and martial law doesn't increase his military power.

So what actually does it change? Not a lot, it closes a few television stations, lets him arrest a few thousand people for a week without trial.

And then?

So why shouldn't the government press for elections, the Southern voters (of which I am one) want elections too. Suthep blocked *our* vote, not yours. It's not like he owns us down here.

The North wants the vote, the East wants the vote, Bangkok wants the vote, Central wants the vote, the South Suthep claims doens't want the vote, but then why did he block it from voting??

So elections are the solution, the only solution that lets Prayuth retire happy.

"Southern voters (of which I am one)"

You should realise that Thailand is no democracy, just asking for an election will solve no problems AT ALL.

No, you also need to arrest and prosecute Suthep and Abhisit for trying to block elections. But that goes without saying if you're going to hold elections.

Thailand is a democracy, your side, Rubl, loses, but that has more to do with Abhisits failings rather than anything else. It's quite easy to fix that, the classic trick (see Tony Blair) is to adopt the popular policies of the opposition and move your party more towards the middle ground to capture more votes. Abhisit on the other hand seems to be clueless in how to win an election, and his backer keeps picking him which only makes it worse.

Do the swap test between red and PDRC:

Red wants *everyone* to have the vote. Swap PDRC for red to see if that's fair: PDRC wants *everyone* to have the vote... yep fair.

PDRC wants to appoint the government themselves. Swap red for PDRC to see if its fair: Reds want to appoint the government themselves.... nope not fair. PDRC would never accept that, if it was reds doing it, so its clearly not fair.

So given that violence sparks from unfairness and inequality, to actually do something that is clearly unfair and unequal would result in unrest.

Government is right to push for elections, international community will back them (has already, they'll repeat that backing), Prayuth wants to retire soon, so swagger aside he has only one good option now.

Edited May 20, 2014 by BlueNoseCodger

[casualbiker]

Unbelievable. Martial law has just been imposed without the governments prior knowledge and they want to carry on as if they still hold all the aces.

What does martial law actually change?

The buildings the army controlled, it still controls.

The army in Bangkok was in Bangkok before.

They failed to prevent a grenade attack on PDRC guards, so despite General Prayuths swagger, he doesn't have the current numbers to secure Bangkok, and martial law doesn't increase his military power.

So what actually does it change? Not a lot, it closes a few television stations, lets him arrest a few thousand people for a week without trial.

And then?

So why shouldn't the government press for elections, the Southern voters (of which I am one) want elections too. Suthep blocked *our* vote, not yours. It's not like he owns us down here.

The North wants the vote, the East wants the vote, Bangkok wants the vote, Central wants the vote, the South Suthep claims doens't want the vote, but then why did he block it from voting??

So elections are the solution, the only solution that lets Prayuth retire happy.

"Southern voters (of which I am one)"

You should realise that Thailand is no democracy, just asking for an election will solve no problems AT ALL.

My my. Who would have guessed BNC is Thai .. will wonders never cease!

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[philw]

This is called denial on a cosmic scale. The levers of Pheu Thai have been severely compromised. Why ?

1. Niwattumrong wasn't informed of the imposition of martial law. Big clue.

2. CAPO - which has been unquestionably loyal to Pheu Thai - has been disbanded. Big clue.

3. Jatuporn's UDD rally has been surrounded and contained. Big clue.

4. UDD stations have been shut down. Big clue.

5. The army recognizes the authority of the National Election Commission. Their opinion is the same today as it was yesterday - Niwattumrong's constitutional legitimacy has been questioned. He's not even an MP, Pheu Thai got him in the cabinet, and now Phue Thai call him a prime minister after two hours deliberation, even though there is completely no precedent for it. There hasn't been an administration with the power of the purse since December 9. The Yingluck administration lost it's public mandate on March 5 when the 30 day period to convene parliament had elapsed. The Yingluck administration no longer exists. There has been no constitutionally recognized administration to replace it, certainly not with public sanction, and Pheu Thai spends two hours nominating a prime minister out of a impeachment battered cabinet who wasn't even an PM. Savvy ?

It's a coup d'etat in all but name.

Relax and have a nice hot, relaxing cuppa while the lads in green put the country back another 10 years.

The national, "We don't really want Elections Commission" and the "Courts" will proceed as instructed and the Democratic party won't stand until they are certain of a win. ( Which they cannot get by electoral means ).

What happened today is no solution, the knot is getting tighter and feelings hotter.

[BlueNoseCodger]

This is called denial on a cosmic scale. The levers of Pheu Thai have been severely compromised. Why ?

1. Niwattumrong wasn't informed of the imposition of martial law. Big clue.

2. CAPO - which has been unquestionably loyal to Pheu Thai - has been disbanded. Big clue.

3. Jatuporn's UDD rally has been surrounded and contained. Big clue.

4. UDD stations have been shut down. Big clue.

5. The army recognizes the authority of the National Election Commission. Their opinion is the same today as it was yesterday - Niwattumrong's constitutional legitimacy has been questioned. He's not even an MP, Pheu Thai got him in the cabinet, and now Phue Thai call him a prime minister after two hours deliberation, even though there is completely no precedent for it. There hasn't been an administration with the power of the purse since December 9. The Yingluck administration lost it's public mandate on March 5 when the 30 day period to convene parliament had elapsed. The Yingluck administration no longer exists. There has been no constitutionally recognized administration to replace it, certainly not with public sanction, and Pheu Thai spends two hours nominating a prime minister out of a impeachment battered cabinet who wasn't even an PM. Savvy ?

It's a coup d'etat in all but name.

Relax and have a nice hot, relaxing cuppa while the lads in green put the country back another 10 years.

The national, "We don't really want Elections Commission" and the "Courts" will proceed as instructed and the Democratic party won't stand until they are certain of a win. ( Which they cannot get by electoral means ).

What happened today is no solution, the knot is getting tighter and feelings hotter.

The difference this time, is he had to sort of half do a coup. As to UDD being surrounded, they quickly removed the barbed wire (it was there for only a few minutes) and if you know why, then you know why, but I cannot tell you why here on TV.

Reds are still very much a force:

http://speedhorsetv.blogspot.com/

Prayuth doesn't quite know how to handle the internet age me thinks.

Economy is already in free fall, (2.1% drop in GDP), he cannot fix that without cooperation from the people.

Martial law really doesn't give him control of the people if they choose not to act like he has control.

So Prayuth beat his chest today, the coup Senators launched their latest coup attempt anyway, the government launched its latest demand for elections anyway, and it was like nobody cowered to General Prayuth.

Nobody acted like he had control.

Edited May 20, 2014 by BlueNoseCodger

[Old Man River]

Unbelievable. Martial law has just been imposed without the governments prior knowledge and they want to carry on as if they still hold all the aces.

More unbelievable is that the EC publicly confirmed that, in it's view, Caretaker MP Niwattumrong has the authority to request this. If he has this authority, then he is obligated to present Surachai for Royal approval as Deputy Senate speaker, allowing the senate to open and vote whether YL and Niwattamrong, among others, should be banned from politics for 5 years!

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I have a feeling that something may have been lost in translation and that Somchai didn't actually say he agreed with the govt's statement that Niwatthamrong has authority to countersign a royal decree without confirmation of that from the Constitutional Court.

In retrospect you are probably right. This caretaker government has, potentially, too much to lose if the senate is allowed to open without a deal first being arranged.

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[BlueNoseCodger]

This is called denial on a cosmic scale. The levers of Pheu Thai have been severely compromised. Why ?

1. Niwattumrong wasn't informed of the imposition of martial law. Big clue.

2. CAPO - which has been unquestionably loyal to Pheu Thai - has been disbanded. Big clue.

3. Jatuporn's UDD rally has been surrounded and contained. Big clue.

4. UDD stations have been shut down. Big clue.

5. The army recognizes the authority of the National Election Commission. Their opinion is the same today as it was yesterday - Niwattumrong's constitutional legitimacy has been questioned. He's not even an MP, Pheu Thai got him in the cabinet, and now Phue Thai call him a prime minister after two hours deliberation, even though there is completely no precedent for it. There hasn't been an administration with the power of the purse since December 9. The Yingluck administration lost it's public mandate on March 5 when the 30 day period to convene parliament had elapsed. The Yingluck administration no longer exists. There has been no constitutionally recognized administration to replace it, certainly not with public sanction, and Pheu Thai spends two hours nominating a prime minister out of a impeachment battered cabinet who wasn't even an PM. Savvy ?

It's a coup d'etat in all but name.

Relax and have a nice hot, relaxing cuppa while the lads in green put the country back another 10 years.

The national, "We don't really want Elections Commission" and the "Courts" will proceed as instructed and the Democratic party won't stand until they are certain of a win. ( Which they cannot get by electoral means ).

What happened today is no solution, the knot is getting tighter and feelings hotter.

The difference this time, is he had to sort of half do a coup. As to UDD being surrounded, they quickly removed the barbed wire (it was there for only a few minutes) and if you know why, then you know why, but I cannot tell you why here on TV.

Reds are still very much a force:

http://speedhorsetv.blogspot.com/

Prayuth doesn't quite know how to handle the internet age me thinks.

Economy is already in free fall, (2.1% drop in GDP), he cannot fix that without cooperation from the people.

Martial law really doesn't give him control of the people if they choose not to act like he has control.

So Prayuth beat his chest today, the coup Senators launched their latest coup attempt anyway, the government launched its latest demand for elections anyway, and it was like nobody cowered to General Prayuth.

Nobody acted like he had control.

It seems BlueSky don't understand the internet either:

They're reduced to easy listening music:

http://blueskychannel.tv/

[BillyBobThai]

I have a feeling that they need to start building some new prisons. When all of this finally gets sorted out, there will be a need for several thousand new cells.

[casualbiker]

This is called denial on a cosmic scale. The levers of Pheu Thai have been severely compromised. Why ?

1. Niwattumrong wasn't informed of the imposition of martial law. Big clue.

2. CAPO - which has been unquestionably loyal to Pheu Thai - has been disbanded. Big clue.

3. Jatuporn's UDD rally has been surrounded and contained. Big clue.

4. UDD stations have been shut down. Big clue.

5. The army recognizes the authority of the National Election Commission. Their opinion is the same today as it was yesterday - Niwattumrong's constitutional legitimacy has been questioned. He's not even an MP, Pheu Thai got him in the cabinet, and now Phue Thai call him a prime minister after two hours deliberation, even though there is completely no precedent for it. There hasn't been an administration with the power of the purse since December 9. The Yingluck administration lost it's public mandate on March 5 when the 30 day period to convene parliament had elapsed. The Yingluck administration no longer exists. There has been no constitutionally recognized administration to replace it, certainly not with public sanction, and Pheu Thai spends two hours nominating a prime minister out of a impeachment battered cabinet who wasn't even an PM. Savvy ?

It's a coup d'etat in all but name.

Relax and have a nice hot, relaxing cuppa while the lads in green put the country back another 10 years.

The national, "We don't really want Elections Commission" and the "Courts" will proceed as instructed and the Democratic party won't stand until they are certain of a win. ( Which they cannot get by electoral means ).

What happened today is no solution, the knot is getting tighter and feelings hotter.

The difference this time, is he had to sort of half do a coup. As to UDD being surrounded, they quickly removed the barbed wire (it was there for only a few minutes) and if you know why, then you know why, but I cannot tell you why here on TV.

Reds are still very much a force:

http://speedhorsetv.blogspot.com/

Prayuth doesn't quite know how to handle the internet age me thinks.

Economy is already in free fall, (2.1% drop in GDP), he cannot fix that without cooperation from the people.

Martial law really doesn't give him control of the people if they choose not to act like he has control.

So Prayuth beat his chest today, the coup Senators launched their latest coup attempt anyway, the government launched its latest demand for elections anyway, and it was like nobody cowered to General Prayuth.

Nobody acted like he had control.

Who removed the barbed wire? And how do you know it was only there for a few minutes?

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[BlueNoseCodger]

This is called denial on a cosmic scale. The levers of Pheu Thai have been severely compromised. Why ?

1. Niwattumrong wasn't informed of the imposition of martial law. Big clue.

2. CAPO - which has been unquestionably loyal to Pheu Thai - has been disbanded. Big clue.

3. Jatuporn's UDD rally has been surrounded and contained. Big clue.

4. UDD stations have been shut down. Big clue.

5. The army recognizes the authority of the National Election Commission. Their opinion is the same today as it was yesterday - Niwattumrong's constitutional legitimacy has been questioned. He's not even an MP, Pheu Thai got him in the cabinet, and now Phue Thai call him a prime minister after two hours deliberation, even though there is completely no precedent for it. There hasn't been an administration with the power of the purse since December 9. The Yingluck administration lost it's public mandate on March 5 when the 30 day period to convene parliament had elapsed. The Yingluck administration no longer exists. There has been no constitutionally recognized administration to replace it, certainly not with public sanction, and Pheu Thai spends two hours nominating a prime minister out of a impeachment battered cabinet who wasn't even an PM. Savvy ?

It's a coup d'etat in all but name.

Relax and have a nice hot, relaxing cuppa while the lads in green put the country back another 10 years.

The national, "We don't really want Elections Commission" and the "Courts" will proceed as instructed and the Democratic party won't stand until they are certain of a win. ( Which they cannot get by electoral means ).

What happened today is no solution, the knot is getting tighter and feelings hotter.

The difference this time, is he had to sort of half do a coup. As to UDD being surrounded, they quickly removed the barbed wire (it was there for only a few minutes) and if you know why, then you know why, but I cannot tell you why here on TV.

Reds are still very much a force:

http://speedhorsetv.blogspot.com/

Prayuth doesn't quite know how to handle the internet age me thinks.

Economy is already in free fall, (2.1% drop in GDP), he cannot fix that without cooperation from the people.

Martial law really doesn't give him control of the people if they choose not to act like he has control.

So Prayuth beat his chest today, the coup Senators launched their latest coup attempt anyway, the government launched its latest demand for elections anyway, and it was like nobody cowered to General Prayuth.

Nobody acted like he had control.

Who removed the barbed wire? And how do you know it was only there for a few minutes?

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The army removed it themselves. I listened to the report on red radio of it coming and going.

The red radio channels are still streaming e.g. :

http://redmbk.com/

This is how the internet age works, faster than hair dye.

[casualbiker]

This is called denial on a cosmic scale. The levers of Pheu Thai have been severely compromised. Why ?

1. Niwattumrong wasn't informed of the imposition of martial law. Big clue.

2. CAPO - which has been unquestionably loyal to Pheu Thai - has been disbanded. Big clue.

3. Jatuporn's UDD rally has been surrounded and contained. Big clue.

4. UDD stations have been shut down. Big clue.

5. The army recognizes the authority of the National Election Commission. Their opinion is the same today as it was yesterday - Niwattumrong's constitutional legitimacy has been questioned. He's not even an MP, Pheu Thai got him in the cabinet, and now Phue Thai call him a prime minister after two hours deliberation, even though there is completely no precedent for it. There hasn't been an administration with the power of the purse since December 9. The Yingluck administration lost it's public mandate on March 5 when the 30 day period to convene parliament had elapsed. The Yingluck administration no longer exists. There has been no constitutionally recognized administration to replace it, certainly not with public sanction, and Pheu Thai spends two hours nominating a prime minister out of a impeachment battered cabinet who wasn't even an PM. Savvy ?

It's a coup d'etat in all but name.

Relax and have a nice hot, relaxing cuppa while the lads in green put the country back another 10 years.

The national, "We don't really want Elections Commission" and the "Courts" will proceed as instructed and the Democratic party won't stand until they are certain of a win. ( Which they cannot get by electoral means ).

What happened today is no solution, the knot is getting tighter and feelings hotter.

The difference this time, is he had to sort of half do a coup. As to UDD being surrounded, they quickly removed the barbed wire (it was there for only a few minutes) and if you know why, then you know why, but I cannot tell you why here on TV.

Reds are still very much a force:

http://speedhorsetv.blogspot.com/

Prayuth doesn't quite know how to handle the internet age me thinks.

Economy is already in free fall, (2.1% drop in GDP), he cannot fix that without cooperation from the people.

Martial law really doesn't give him control of the people if they choose not to act like he has control.

So Prayuth beat his chest today, the coup Senators launched their latest coup attempt anyway, the government launched its latest demand for elections anyway, and it was like nobody cowered to General Prayuth.

Nobody acted like he had control.

Who removed the barbed wire? And how do you know it was only there for a few minutes?

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The army removed it themselves. I listened to the report on red radio of it coming and going.

The red radio channels are still streaming e.g. :

http://redmbk.com/

This is how the internet age works, faster than hair dye.

And being a voting southern Thai you understood every word.. but yet at 6.30am and 11.30am and 7pm the Army and check points were still there. Go figure!

how do I know .. friends

Who live in the area saw it and told me.

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[kimamey]

Mad to expect to move past a political deadlock by holding an election? Such an extreme demand is clearly a sign of mental illness! Sounds to me as though the inmates have taken over the TVF asylum.

What political deadlock? There was no political deadlock. There was only a man backed by a group of rich and powerful people who wanted to overthrow an elected government by civil disruption and not at the polls where it would have more credibility and validity.

The reason that this has been allowed to progress to this day is because this group of rich and powerful people have a lot of influence over many so called independent agencies (for all we know, they may even be part of these agencies).

There is a deadlock for sure - but it's about a wealth and power grab.

You're only looking at this from one side though aren't you.

After the 2011 election, despite all the claims that the Democrats refuse to accept election results, that's exactly what they did, accepted them. PTP looked at all their wonderful MPs and thought which one would make a good PM? They then decided that the best option was someone with no experience who would have to be shipped off around the world in case someone forced her to do her job in parliament and just happened to be Thaksin's sister. Doesn't that seem a bit odd to you? Her one quality seems to have been her intention to try to compromise as she showed when Abhisit was going to put forward his ideas and she said he should be given a chance to explain them. At least that might have started some meaningful discussion but it didn't seem to happen. Did she change her mind or was she overruled by someone?

The normal parliamentary procedures continued until the big push by the 'it's not all about Thaksin party' to get an amnesty for Thaksin which showed it's real purpose. This upset the redshirts as well as it meant an amnesty for Abhisit and Suthep who they still seem to think ordered the killings in 2010. They don't seem to realise or maybe don't care that the PTP is protecting the army who were the ones who fired the shots. As far as I know the Dems were happy to see minor redshirts get an amnesty but it couldn't happen without Thaksin getting one which is obviously more important. He's had to apologise to the redshirts for talking only about himself during one of his phone rallies. Everything is about him. Suthep may well be suffering from a massive ego but he's got nothing on Thaksin.

On the BBC website this morning there were 2 pictures showing anti and pro government protesters. The one of the redshirts showed people with placards with the words 'No Unelected PM'. Behind them were more redshirts with placards bearing a picture. Not of the current acting caretaker PM or whatever he's called or of Yingluck the last elected PM, the darling of Isaan but of Thaksin. I think that picture summed the problem up fairly well myself. This doesn't happen elsewhere in democracies.

It's not the elected government that's the problem it's the running of the party by someone who's been convicted and lives outside the jurisdiction of the Thai authorities.

I'm sure someone will come on and tell me the conviction was trumped up or politically motivated. Of course there was political motivation. That's what happens in politics. If your opponent does something wrong you attack them with it even though you wouldn't if it were someone else. Abhisit's problem over his military career was a good example as what was done was quite common apparently but you don't see any other cases do you. It was proved so that's that. The murder charges seem a bit different as there doesn't at the moment appear to be any evidence to back them up but we'll have to see what happens. When PTP came to power Yingluck said they were going to have a look at Thaksin's conviction to see if the case was properly conducted. I've heard nothing more about it so I'm assuming they didn't find any problems.

There is also the perceived bias of the courts and independent agencies. If the PTP win the next election it seems unlikely hey will be able to prevent themselves doing something silly which will bring one or more of them before a court which will then be accused of bias if it doesn't rule the way the redshirts want it to. The trouble with doing this after a PTP election win is we'll end up with courts that look like a Shinawatra family reunion.

There are problems on both sides which won't be solved until they are admitted.

[BlueNoseCodger]

This is called denial on a cosmic scale. The levers of Pheu Thai have been severely compromised. Why ?

1. Niwattumrong wasn't informed of the imposition of martial law. Big clue.

2. CAPO - which has been unquestionably loyal to Pheu Thai - has been disbanded. Big clue.

3. Jatuporn's UDD rally has been surrounded and contained. Big clue.

4. UDD stations have been shut down. Big clue.

5. The army recognizes the authority of the National Election Commission. Their opinion is the same today as it was yesterday - Niwattumrong's constitutional legitimacy has been questioned. He's not even an MP, Pheu Thai got him in the cabinet, and now Phue Thai call him a prime minister after two hours deliberation, even though there is completely no precedent for it. There hasn't been an administration with the power of the purse since December 9. The Yingluck administration lost it's public mandate on March 5 when the 30 day period to convene parliament had elapsed. The Yingluck administration no longer exists. There has been no constitutionally recognized administration to replace it, certainly not with public sanction, and Pheu Thai spends two hours nominating a prime minister out of a impeachment battered cabinet who wasn't even an PM. Savvy ?

It's a coup d'etat in all but name.

Relax and have a nice hot, relaxing cuppa while the lads in green put the country back another 10 years.

The national, "We don't really want Elections Commission" and the "Courts" will proceed as instructed and the Democratic party won't stand until they are certain of a win. ( Which they cannot get by electoral means ).

What happened today is no solution, the knot is getting tighter and feelings hotter.

The difference this time, is he had to sort of half do a coup. As to UDD being surrounded, they quickly removed the barbed wire (it was there for only a few minutes) and if you know why, then you know why, but I cannot tell you why here on TV.

Reds are still very much a force:

http://speedhorsetv.blogspot.com/

Prayuth doesn't quite know how to handle the internet age me thinks.

Economy is already in free fall, (2.1% drop in GDP), he cannot fix that without cooperation from the people.

Martial law really doesn't give him control of the people if they choose not to act like he has control.

So Prayuth beat his chest today, the coup Senators launched their latest coup attempt anyway, the government launched its latest demand for elections anyway, and it was like nobody cowered to General Prayuth.

Nobody acted like he had control.

Who removed the barbed wire? And how do you know it was only there for a few minutes?

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The army removed it themselves. I listened to the report on red radio of it coming and going.

The red radio channels are still streaming e.g. :

http://redmbk.com/

This is how the internet age works, faster than hair dye.

And being a voting southern Thai you understood every word.. but yet at 6.30am and 11.30am and 7pm the Army and check points were still there. Go figure!

how do I know .. friends

Who live in the area saw it and told me.

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The army checkpoints always were there. They were there back in April when I was at Aksa.

The barbed wire sealing off the Aksa road site was laid and removed pronto.

If you want to see the protests (the Aksa one), it's on a few streams live, e.g. this youtube stream, it clearly continues:

I get the feeling you lot seem to think the 'establishment' is one entity, and they're some sort of amorphous borg like entity, and it's really not the case. Prayuth didn't seek permission under section 2 as was required, he's applying section 4:

Section 4: If there is war or insurrection in any area, the commander of military forces at least one battalion, or of any military fort, barracks or forfeited area, which has the power and duty to protect such area, shall have the power to proclaim the Martial Law within his or her responsible area. In this case, the proclamation of the Martial Law shall be reported to the Government immediately.

Which only lets him declare Martial Law where there is war or insurrection (i.e. PDRC protest or Senate meeting). While wishing to apply a section 2 to the whole country:

Section 2: Whenever there is necessity to preserve good order so as to be free from external or internal danger, a Royal Proclamation may be issued enforcing all or certain sections of the Martial Law or part of any section of it including the conditions under which such provision or provisions shall apply to the whole or any part of the Kingdom; and after the proclamation has been made at any time or in any area, all the provisions of any act or law which are inconsistent with the provisions of the Martial Law which is in force shall be suspended and replaced by the provisions of the Martial Law which is in force.

This is not a small issue.

[kimamey]

This is called denial on a cosmic scale. The levers of Pheu Thai have been severely compromised. Why ?

1. Niwattumrong wasn't informed of the imposition of martial law. Big clue.

2. CAPO - which has been unquestionably loyal to Pheu Thai - has been disbanded. Big clue.

3. Jatuporn's UDD rally has been surrounded and contained. Big clue.

4. UDD stations have been shut down. Big clue.

5. The army recognizes the authority of the National Election Commission. Their opinion is the same today as it was yesterday - Niwattumrong's constitutional legitimacy has been questioned. He's not even an MP, Pheu Thai got him in the cabinet, and now Phue Thai call him a prime minister after two hours deliberation, even though there is completely no precedent for it. There hasn't been an administration with the power of the purse since December 9. The Yingluck administration lost it's public mandate on March 5 when the 30 day period to convene parliament had elapsed. The Yingluck administration no longer exists. There has been no constitutionally recognized administration to replace it, certainly not with public sanction, and Pheu Thai spends two hours nominating a prime minister out of a impeachment battered cabinet who wasn't even an PM. Savvy ?

It's a coup d'etat in all but name.

Relax and have a nice hot, relaxing cuppa while the lads in green put the country back another 10 years.

The national, "We don't really want Elections Commission" and the "Courts" will proceed as instructed and the Democratic party won't stand until they are certain of a win. ( Which they cannot get by electoral means ).

What happened today is no solution, the knot is getting tighter and feelings hotter.

Where does all this EC not wanting elections come from. They organised the one in 2011 which apparently went very well according to pro PTP posters. They ran the one in February but that was disrupted by protesters which the police and army couldn't stop. I don't know what you think the 5 of them could have done about that. They have merely pointed out that the same thing could happen again and waste more money which the PTP will want them to pay back since they think it's their fault. Pity the PTP don't pay back what was lost on the rice scheme.

All the while the man who'll be running the government if PTP win won't even be in the country let alone take part in the election.

[BlueNoseCodger]

Mad to expect to move past a political deadlock by holding an election? Such an extreme demand is clearly a sign of mental illness! Sounds to me as though the inmates have taken over the TVF asylum.

What political deadlock? There was no political deadlock. There was only a man backed by a group of rich and powerful people who wanted to overthrow an elected government by civil disruption and not at the polls where it would have more credibility and validity.

The reason that this has been allowed to progress to this day is because this group of rich and powerful people have a lot of influence over many so called independent agencies (for all we know, they may even be part of these agencies).

There is a deadlock for sure - but it's about a wealth and power grab.

You're only looking at this from one side though aren't you.

After the 2011 election, despite all the claims that the Democrats refuse to accept election results, that's exactly what they did, accepted them. PTP looked at all their wonderful MPs and thought which one would make a good PM? They then decided that the best option was someone with no experience who would have to be shipped off around the world in case someone forced her to do her job in parliament and just happened to be Thaksin's sister. Doesn't that seem a bit odd to you? Her one quality seems to have been her intention to try to compromise as she showed when Abhisit was going to put forward his ideas and she said he should be given a chance to explain them. At least that might have started some meaningful discussion but it didn't seem to happen. Did she change her mind or was she overruled by someone?

The normal parliamentary procedures continued until the big push by the 'it's not all about Thaksin party' to get an amnesty for Thaksin which showed it's real purpose. This upset the redshirts as well as it meant an amnesty for Abhisit and Suthep who they still seem to think ordered the killings in 2010. They don't seem to realise or maybe don't care that the PTP is protecting the army who were the ones who fired the shots. As far as I know the Dems were happy to see minor redshirts get an amnesty but it couldn't happen without Thaksin getting one which is obviously more important. He's had to apologise to the redshirts for talking only about himself during one of his phone rallies. Everything is about him. Suthep may well be suffering from a massive ego but he's got nothing on Thaksin.

On the BBC website this morning there were 2 pictures showing anti and pro government protesters. The one of the redshirts showed people with placards with the words 'No Unelected PM'. Behind them were more redshirts with placards bearing a picture. Not of the current acting caretaker PM or whatever he's called or of Yingluck the last elected PM, the darling of Isaan but of Thaksin. I think that picture summed the problem up fairly well myself. This doesn't happen elsewhere in democracies.

It's not the elected government that's the problem it's the running of the party by someone who's been convicted and lives outside the jurisdiction of the Thai authorities.

I'm sure someone will come on and tell me the conviction was trumped up or politically motivated. Of course there was political motivation. That's what happens in politics. If your opponent does something wrong you attack them with it even though you wouldn't if it were someone else. Abhisit's problem over his military career was a good example as what was done was quite common apparently but you don't see any other cases do you. It was proved so that's that. The murder charges seem a bit different as there doesn't at the moment appear to be any evidence to back them up but we'll have to see what happens. When PTP came to power Yingluck said they were going to have a look at Thaksin's conviction to see if the case was properly conducted. I've heard nothing more about it so I'm assuming they didn't find any problems.

There is also the perceived bias of the courts and independent agencies. If the PTP win the next election it seems unlikely hey will be able to prevent themselves doing something silly which will bring one or more of them before a court which will then be accused of bias if it doesn't rule the way the redshirts want it to. The trouble with doing this after a PTP election win is we'll end up with courts that look like a Shinawatra family reunion.

There are problems on both sides which won't be solved until they are admitted.

Before we voted, Yingluk was already nominated (nominated in May, for July elections). We knew who we'd get if we voted in Pheu Thai, and she did a lot of campaigning.

A lot of the rest of your argument is really based on the idea that Thaksin put her in power, and not the voters. That they voted in Pheu Thai and Thaksin came along and stuck in Yingluk. But that's fiction. We chose her.

[BlueNoseCodger]

This is called denial on a cosmic scale. The levers of Pheu Thai have been severely compromised. Why ?

1. Niwattumrong wasn't informed of the imposition of martial law. Big clue.

2. CAPO - which has been unquestionably loyal to Pheu Thai - has been disbanded. Big clue.

3. Jatuporn's UDD rally has been surrounded and contained. Big clue.

4. UDD stations have been shut down. Big clue.

5. The army recognizes the authority of the National Election Commission. Their opinion is the same today as it was yesterday - Niwattumrong's constitutional legitimacy has been questioned. He's not even an MP, Pheu Thai got him in the cabinet, and now Phue Thai call him a prime minister after two hours deliberation, even though there is completely no precedent for it. There hasn't been an administration with the power of the purse since December 9. The Yingluck administration lost it's public mandate on March 5 when the 30 day period to convene parliament had elapsed. The Yingluck administration no longer exists. There has been no constitutionally recognized administration to replace it, certainly not with public sanction, and Pheu Thai spends two hours nominating a prime minister out of a impeachment battered cabinet who wasn't even an PM. Savvy ?

It's a coup d'etat in all but name.

Relax and have a nice hot, relaxing cuppa while the lads in green put the country back another 10 years.

The national, "We don't really want Elections Commission" and the "Courts" will proceed as instructed and the Democratic party won't stand until they are certain of a win. ( Which they cannot get by electoral means ).

What happened today is no solution, the knot is getting tighter and feelings hotter.

Where does all this EC not wanting elections come from. They organised the one in 2011 which apparently went very well according to pro PTP posters. They ran the one in February but that was disrupted by protesters which the police and army couldn't stop. I don't know what you think the 5 of them could have done about that. They have merely pointed out that the same thing could happen again and waste more money which the PTP will want them to pay back since they think it's their fault. Pity the PTP don't pay back what was lost on the rice scheme.

All the while the man who'll be running the government if PTP win won't even be in the country let alone take part in the election.

Somchai was appointed to the EC, 2 days after Yingluk called elections, he was not involved in the 2011 election. The rest is simple observation.

[h90]

The election won't take place. The Bangkok elite didn't orchestrate a judicial and military coup to just hand back power via an election.

Hilarious to think that there's any chance of an election in the foreseeable future.

Coup, coup?

Anyway with martial law declared as was even suggested by the Pheu Thai Minister of Foreign Affairs, it would seem a bit too early to talk about setting an election date within two months or so. At least I assume that no one here would want to have elections while the martial law is still active?

An election while on martial law is pretty dangerous.

What would Prayuth do when there is the full scale vote buying and the EC isn't doing anything?

a) Nothing...group yellow is screaming and not accepting the elections (and they are right)

he is taking over the job of the EC and banning MPs, seizing money, putting a lot of people into jail or even dissolving group red. They will scream that he overstepped his authority and that this is a coup (and they are right).

[djjamie]

BTW as it's too early to say when the Martial Law can / will be lifted it would seem it is also too early to plan an election date.

At least I assume we will not have elections under the martial law. That's considered somewhat 'undemocratic', you know.

What do you have to say about the referendum that brought about the current constitution? Do you consider that "somewhat undemocratic"?

What has that to do with a Martial Law declared as former Minister of Foreign Affairs asked for a few days ago?

Well if you don't know rubl you've just confirmed what I already thought.

Remember Rubi - Fab4's posts are the rubics cube posts. They are not meant to be read. They are meant to be solved and deciphered.

Most of his posts go down this path. If only he could articulate a response early on it would help.

Good luck with solving this one!

[MaxLee]

Unbelievable. Martial law has just been imposed without the governments prior knowledge and they want to carry on as if they still hold all the aces.

Election Collection,.... and no end to it. Election-Collection, the ultimate answer to Thailand's problems, sponsored by Thaksin,,,

[icare999]

i think the chances of an election this year are slim let alone in august

well done Suphet without you Thailand would by now we well on its way to becoming Taksins one party state at least now theirs a chance he will at long last be defeated

[casualbiker]

This is called denial on a cosmic scale. The levers of Pheu Thai have been severely compromised. Why ?

1. Niwattumrong wasn't informed of the imposition of martial law. Big clue.

2. CAPO - which has been unquestionably loyal to Pheu Thai - has been disbanded. Big clue.

3. Jatuporn's UDD rally has been surrounded and contained. Big clue.

4. UDD stations have been shut down. Big clue.

5. The army recognizes the authority of the National Election Commission. Their opinion is the same today as it was yesterday - Niwattumrong's constitutional legitimacy has been questioned. He's not even an MP, Pheu Thai got him in the cabinet, and now Phue Thai call him a prime minister after two hours deliberation, even though there is completely no precedent for it. There hasn't been an administration with the power of the purse since December 9. The Yingluck administration lost it's public mandate on March 5 when the 30 day period to convene parliament had elapsed. The Yingluck administration no longer exists. There has been no constitutionally recognized administration to replace it, certainly not with public sanction, and Pheu Thai spends two hours nominating a prime minister out of a impeachment battered cabinet who wasn't even an PM. Savvy ?

It's a coup d'etat in all but name.

Relax and have a nice hot, relaxing cuppa while the lads in green put the country back another 10 years.

The national, "We don't really want Elections Commission" and the "Courts" will proceed as instructed and the Democratic party won't stand until they are certain of a win. ( Which they cannot get by electoral means ).

What happened today is no solution, the knot is getting tighter and feelings hotter.

The difference this time, is he had to sort of half do a coup. As to UDD being surrounded, they quickly removed the barbed wire (it was there for only a few minutes) and if you know why, then you know why, but I cannot tell you why here on TV.

Reds are still very much a force:

http://speedhorsetv.blogspot.com/

Prayuth doesn't quite know how to handle the internet age me thinks.

Economy is already in free fall, (2.1% drop in GDP), he cannot fix that without cooperation from the people.

Martial law really doesn't give him control of the people if they choose not to act like he has control.

So Prayuth beat his chest today, the coup Senators launched their latest coup attempt anyway, the government launched its latest demand for elections anyway, and it was like nobody cowered to General Prayuth.

Nobody acted like he had control.

Who removed the barbed wire? And how do you know it was only there for a few minutes?

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The army removed it themselves. I listened to the report on red radio of it coming and going.

The red radio channels are still streaming e.g. :

http://redmbk.com/

This is how the internet age works, faster than hair dye.

And being a voting southern Thai you understood every word.. but yet at 6.30am and 11.30am and 7pm the Army and check points were still there. Go figure!

how do I know .. friends

Who live in the area saw it and told me.

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The army checkpoints always were there. They were there back in April when I was at Aksa.

The barbed wire sealing off the Aksa road site was laid and removed pronto.

If you want to see the protests (the Aksa one), it's on a few streams live, e.g. this youtube stream, it clearly continues:

I get the feeling you lot seem to think the 'establishment' is one entity, and they're some sort of amorphous borg like entity, and it's really not the case. Prayuth didn't seek permission under section 2 as was required, he's applying section 4:

Section 4: If there is war or insurrection in any area, the commander of military forces at least one battalion, or of any military fort, barracks or forfeited area, which has the power and duty to protect such area, shall have the power to proclaim the Martial Law within his or her responsible area. In this case, the proclamation of the Martial Law shall be reported to the Government immediately.

Which only lets him declare Martial Law where there is war or insurrection (i.e. PDRC protest or Senate meeting). While wishing to apply a section 2 to the whole country:

Section 2: Whenever there is necessity to preserve good order so as to be free from external or internal danger, a Royal Proclamation may be issued enforcing all or certain sections of the Martial Law or part of any section of it including the conditions under which such provision or provisions shall apply to the whole or any part of the Kingdom; and after the proclamation has been made at any time or in any area, all the provisions of any act or law which are inconsistent with the provisions of the Martial Law which is in force shall be suspended and replaced by the provisions of the Martial Law which is in force.

This is not a small issue.

BNC.. you are a wonder.. if it's against PDRC you have rumours and pictures galore .. you imply that you understand Thai and are on the Thai web boards. So how have you missed the weapons cache found in Bkk which was probably the armies reason for using section 4!

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[rubl]

"Southern voters (of which I am one)"

You should realise that Thailand is no democracy, just asking for an election will solve no problems AT ALL.

No, you also need to arrest and prosecute Suthep and Abhisit for trying to block elections. But that goes without saying if you're going to hold elections.

Thailand is a democracy, your side, Rubl, loses, but that has more to do with Abhisits failings rather than anything else. It's quite easy to fix that, the classic trick (see Tony Blair) is to adopt the popular policies of the opposition and move your party more towards the middle ground to capture more votes. Abhisit on the other hand seems to be clueless in how to win an election, and his backer keeps picking him which only makes it worse.

Do the swap test between red and PDRC:

Red wants *everyone* to have the vote. Swap PDRC for red to see if that's fair: PDRC wants *everyone* to have the vote... yep fair.

PDRC wants to appoint the government themselves. Swap red for PDRC to see if its fair: Reds want to appoint the government themselves.... nope not fair. PDRC would never accept that, if it was reds doing it, so its clearly not fair.

So given that violence sparks from unfairness and inequality, to actually do something that is clearly unfair and unequal would result in unrest.

Government is right to push for elections, international community will back them (has already, they'll repeat that backing), Prayuth wants to retire soon, so swagger aside he has only one good option now.

You're avoiding the issue it would seem. Just 'removing' Suthep/Abhisit doesn't solve a problem. There still many more who rather have reforms to ensure all Thai are not only equal by law but also effectively. Reforms to be enforced on ALL.

So, elections under martial law? Interesting. Almost as good as elections under on Emergency Decree.

BTW 'my side'? Unlike you I'm only a legal alien here in Thailand.

[rubl]

Before we voted, Yingluk was already nominated (nominated in May, for July elections). We knew who we'd get if we voted in Pheu Thai, and she did a lot of campaigning.

A lot of the rest of your argument is really based on the idea that Thaksin put her in power, and not the voters. That they voted in Pheu Thai and Thaksin came along and stuck in Yingluk. But that's fiction. We chose her.

Yingluck was nominated as Pheu Thai party list #1. The executive committe put her on that place as most likely the 'Thaksin thinks' Pheu Thai only acts. By voting Pheu THai voters seemed to have fallen for the populistics election promises and the year-on-year indoctrination about things were under Thaksin. Plus a bit of daemonising of all others of course. I understand the Abhisit "kill me some" tape is still a favourite upcountry.

Voters in North and NorthEast are for a larger part still stuck in an age old patronage system, a social order which makes 'free' votes impossible. Furthermore Pheu Thai is led by Thaksin. Thaksin has said so frequently and Pheu Thai figures regularly go check for the latest orders from their master.

Democracy any one?

[rubl]

What do you have to say about the referendum that brought about the current constitution? Do you consider that "somewhat undemocratic"?

What has that to do with a Martial Law declared as former Minister of Foreign Affairs asked for a few days ago?

Well if you don't know rubl you've just confirmed what I already thought.

You're talking in riddles, my dear fab4.

Could you please elaborate on what you think that me asking you what a coup with follow up in 2006/2007 has to do with a Martial Law declared as the Pheu Thai Minister of Foreign Affairs asked for a few days ago?

Since it's unlikely an answer will be forthcoming let's clarify some at least.

1. On 2006-09-19 the coup leaders declared Martial Law. On 2007-01-26 ML was lifted in 41 provinces. On 2007-10-30 ML was lifted in all other provinces, ahead of the Election to be held on 2007-12-23.

2. A few days ago the ex Dept. PM, ex MoFA, ex chief CAPO advisor Surapong spoke out in favour of declaring Marital Law as the army could then safeguard elections.

3. The Fab4Feb2 elections were held with parts of the country under Emergency Decree.

4. The Emergency Decree including the banning of gatherings of more than 4 people. In a way a polling station with 4 staff which have a problem the moment ONE voter would turn up.

Edited May 21, 2014 by rubl

[fab4]

BTW as it's too early to say when the Martial Law can / will be lifted it would seem it is also too early to plan an election date.

At least I assume we will not have elections under the martial law. That's considered somewhat 'undemocratic', you know.

What do you have to say about the referendum that brought about the current constitution? Do you consider that "somewhat undemocratic"?

Remember Rubi - Fab4's posts are the rubics cube posts. They are not meant to be read. They are meant to be solved and deciphered.

Most of his posts go down this path. If only he could articulate a response early on it would help.

Good luck with solving this one!

I phrase it that way because it is so bleeding obvious. The present day constitution was "voted for" in a referendum which was held whilst 35 provinces were under martial law. By rubls definition that would mean todays constitution was not democratically voted in.

You see this where a bit of knowledge of Thai history (despite certain posters on here decrying the mention of historical facts) or even the will to do some research other than reading The Nation and TVF comes in handy.

[rubl]

BTW as it's too early to say when the Martial Law can / will be lifted it would seem it is also too early to plan an election date.

At least I assume we will not have elections under the martial law. That's considered somewhat 'undemocratic', you know.

What do you have to say about the referendum that brought about the current constitution? Do you consider that "somewhat undemocratic"?

Remember Rubi - Fab4's posts are the rubics cube posts. They are not meant to be read. They are meant to be solved and deciphered.

Most of his posts go down this path. If only he could articulate a response early on it would help.

Good luck with solving this one!

I phrase it that way because it is so bleeding obvious. The present day constitution was "voted for" in a referendum which was held whilst 35 provinces were under martial law. By rubls definition that would mean todays constitution was not democratically voted in.

You see this where a bit of knowledge of Thai history (despite certain posters on here decrying the mention of historical facts) or even the will to do some research other than reading The Nation and TVF comes in handy.

The Fab4Feb2 elections were held with part of the country under Emergency Decree. The government proposed Aug3 elections may be under a complete Martial Law as ex Dept. PM., ex MoFA, ex chief CAPO advisor suggested to 'keep elections safe'.

So, that the reason why you keep on about a 'referendum' which has no relation with the topic.

Edited May 21, 2014 by rubl

[djjamie]

BTW as it's too early to say when the Martial Law can / will be lifted it would seem it is also too early to plan an election date.

At least I assume we will not have elections under the martial law. That's considered somewhat 'undemocratic', you know.

What do you have to say about the referendum that brought about the current constitution? Do you consider that "somewhat undemocratic"?

Remember Rubi - Fab4's posts are the rubics cube posts. They are not meant to be read. They are meant to be solved and deciphered.

Most of his posts go down this path. If only he could articulate a response early on it would help.

Good luck with solving this one!

I phrase it that way because it is so bleeding obvious. The present day constitution was "voted for" in a referendum which was held whilst 35 provinces were under martial law. By rubls definition that would mean todays constitution was not democratically voted in.

You see this where a bit of knowledge of Thai history (despite certain posters on here decrying the mention of historical facts) or even the will to do some research other than reading The Nation and TVF comes in handy.

Then you should have said that!!!

To you it is obvious. We cannot read minds mate. Yes we all know about the referendum, but only you know the link that you are trying to allure too.

Not just me, most posters. You need to have said the above from the beginning mate. You always have to explain yourself after the fact. It is not a rubic cube mate.

Please let me enjoy your posts. Not solve them.

[fab4]

I phrase it that way because it is so bleeding obvious. The present day constitution was "voted for" in a referendum which was held whilst 35 provinces were under martial law. By rubls definition that would mean todays constitution was not democratically voted in.

You see this where a bit of knowledge of Thai history (despite certain posters on here decrying the mention of historical facts) or even the will to do some research other than reading The Nation and TVF comes in handy.

The Fab4Feb2 elections were held with part of the country under Emergency Decree. The government proposed Aug3 elections may be under a complete Martial Law as ex Dept. PM., ex MoFA, ex chief CAPO advisor suggested to 'keep elections safe'.

So, that the reason why you keep on about a 'referendum' which has no relation with the topic.

"By rubls definition that would mean todays constitution was not democratically voted in".

Despite all your deflections and protestations about this and that your original statement was this:

BTW as it's too early to say when the Martial Law can / will be lifted it would seem it is also too early to plan an election date.

At least I assume we will not have elections under the martial law. That's considered somewhat 'undemocratic', you know.

That's why I "keep on about" the referendum that brought this Constitution into being was undertaken whilst 35 provinces were under Martial Law at the time.

But you already knew that, didn't you?

[/size]

[rubl]

I phrase it that way because it is so bleeding obvious. The present day constitution was "voted for" in a referendum which was held whilst 35 provinces were under martial law. By rubls definition that would mean todays constitution was not democratically voted in.

You see this where a bit of knowledge of Thai history (despite certain posters on here decrying the mention of historical facts) or even the will to do some research other than reading The Nation and TVF comes in handy.

The Fab4Feb2 elections were held with part of the country under Emergency Decree. The government proposed Aug3 elections may be under a complete Martial Law as ex Dept. PM., ex MoFA, ex chief CAPO advisor suggested to 'keep elections safe'.

So, that the reason why you keep on about a 'referendum' which has no relation with the topic.

"By rubls definition that would mean todays constitution was not democratically voted in".

Despite all your deflections and protestations about this and that your original statement was this:

BTW as it's too early to say when the Martial Law can / will be lifted it would seem it is also too early to plan an election date.

At least I assume we will not have elections under the martial law. That's considered somewhat 'undemocratic', you know.

That's why I "keep on about" the referendum that brought this Constitution into being was undertaken whilst 35 provinces were under Martial Law at the time.

But you already knew that, didn't you?

As it would seem most agree that the coup was illegal I see no reason in this topic to point out all that happened under the Military Administration. Even the coup leaders added an article to the constitution to absolve themselves and Gen. Sonthi as MP joining the Pheu Thai led coalistion government voted for the Blanket Amnesty Bill, to be double sure I guess.

The topic is a somewhat diminished temporari government wanting to have elections on August 3 with even today the not-yet-stepped-down Dept. PM, MoFA and ex chief advisor to CAPO Surapong urging army chief Gen Prayuth Chan-ocha to ensure the next general election is organised soon. He also said that the general should make sure polling is not blocked, as it was during the Feb 2 election.

So, a 'democratic', 'elected' government asking the army to interfere in elections? What's next I wonder?

ADD: even though the government (i.e. Surapong asked for the Martial Law to help with elections), the HRW has urged it's lifting as it puts the rights of all Thais in jeopardy

Edited May 21, 2014 by rubl