International alarm mounts over Thai coup

[sumtingwong]

The USA coup, affectionately known as the Revolutionary War, did a lot of good for the American people. And the coup General became president. By the sounds of these posters, Germany's Hitler could break no laws and thus executing all the people he did was perfectly legal in their viewpoint. As was Russia's Stalin, China's Mao, N Korea's Kim, Cuba's Castro and Cambodia's Pol Pot. Good to know that when you lose an election that death awaits you. You have a communist view of what an election is and what democracy is. You might fit in better in the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. See, they even have democrat in their name so it must be so and they have elections to. I am sure you will love it there. No need to turn Thailand into N. Korea. Just move to N Korea and live your utopia.

[slinky1876]

Whether right or left, pink or brown, The majority voted a side. Just a shame, the people with money don't agree with paying higher taxes. When you look at it, why would you! Rose 25 per cent, daffodil 6 per cent. no wonder why people are angry.

[englishoak]

The USA coup, affectionately known as the Revolutionary War, did a lot of good for the American people. And the coup General became president. By the sounds of these posters, Germany's Hitler could break no laws and thus executing all the people he did was perfectly legal in their viewpoint. As was Russia's Stalin, China's Mao, N Korea's Kim, Cuba's Castro and Cambodia's Pol Pot. Good to know that when you lose an election that death awaits you. You have a communist view of what an election is and what democracy is. You might fit in better in the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. See, they even have democrat in their name so it must be so and they have elections to. I am sure you will love it there. No need to turn Thailand into N. Korea. Just move to N Korea and live your utopia.

The US revolution was not a coup nor most on your list.

While a revolution can include a coup d’état, not all coups d’état actually result in revolution. That is because a revolution must include a fundamental change in a society.

For example, the French Revolution and the Haitian Revolution were undeniably revolutions rather than mere coups. The French Revolution took power from the aristocracy and monarchy and gave it to the Third Estate. It made the society more democratic. In Haiti, the Revolution abolished slavery and destroyed the system of white supremacy and white rule in Haiti. These were true and fundamental changes and are therefore called revolutions.

However, other changes in government can simply be done because one faction in the elite of a society wants more power. This faction does not really want to change society in any real way. Instead, it simply wants to have power so that it can gain the benefits that come with having power. This often happens in “Third World” countries where, for example, one group overthrows another. Such a coup leads to no fundamental change even though it replaces one government with another.

This is just that... a coup and no they have never done anything that benefits the country.

[citizen33]

It might be good to get back to the topic of international reaction. There are new op-eds today in the Global Post and the New York Times, the latter by Duncan McCargo. They are on the respective websites.

[sumtingwong]

Speaking of the majority of the Thais, now that is a mandate.

Poll shows over 75 percent of the people support martial law

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/728104-thai-poll-shows-over-75-percent-of-the-people-support-martial-law/

Much higher than the minority of the Thais that voted for PTP.

In reality, of the 74% of Thais that turned out to vote on July 3, 2011, only 48% actually cast votes for Peua Thai (PTP). Of all eligible voters, that is a tenuous 35% mandate, hardly what can be called “decisively backed.”

Definition coup ko͞o/ noun
noun: coup; plural noun: coups; noun: coup d'état; plural noun: coups d'état; plural noun: coup d'états
1. a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government.

I guess this was not a coup in Thailand then. The Thai military is legally authorized to take over, even the USA military is also legally authorized to take over should the need arise.

[englishoak]

a poll with 1,264 people of hua hin in a population of 60 odd million nation wide is not a statistic even worth mentioning.

Give the propaganda a break m8 it dosnt wash.

Edited May 29, 2014 by englishoak

[heybruce]

Speaking of the majority of the Thais, now that is a mandate.

Poll shows over 75 percent of the people support martial law

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/728104-thai-poll-shows-over-75-percent-of-the-people-support-martial-law/

Much higher than the minority of the Thais that voted for PTP.

In reality, of the 74% of Thais that turned out to vote on July 3, 2011, only 48% actually cast votes for Peua Thai (PTP). Of all eligible voters, that is a tenuous 35% mandate, hardly what can be called “decisively backed.”

Definition coup ko͞o/ noun

noun: coup; plural noun: coups; noun: coup d'état; plural noun: coups d'état; plural noun: coup d'états

1. a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government.

I guess this was not a coup in Thailand then. The Thai military is legally authorized to take over, even the USA military is also legally authorized to take over should the need arise.

dic·ta·tor·ship noun \dik-ˈtā-tər-ˌship, ˈdik-ˌ\

: rule by a dictator : rule, control, or leadership by one person with total power

: a government or country in which total power is held by a dictator or a small group

The Thai military is legally authorized under the constitution written at their direction after the 2006 coup, which they have now decided to re-write because the wrong party won the election.

I'm skeptical of all polls taken by anything other than a reputable polling organization, especially under these circumstances. I'll just point out that if the military were truly confident in these numbers they'd endorse a candidate and have an election right away; they could then have a democratic, internationally accepted mandate to do whatever they wanted.

You'll need to explain "the USA military is also legally authorized to take over should the need arise." My understanding is the US constitution is set up to have the military subordinate to a civilian government at all times, with as many safeguards as they could think of to ensure there will always be a civilian government. Have you found a loophole?

I'll leave it to someone else to explain to you how elections work, it's late and I'm tired.

Edited May 29, 2014 by heybruce

[heybruce]

a poll with 1,264 people of hua hin in a population of 60 odd million nation wide is not a statistic even worth mentioning.

Give the propaganda a break m8 it dosnt wash.

One of the reasons I don't trust this poll is because I couldn't find any information on how it was conducted. Were the people polled entirely in Hua Hin? If so, it has even less credibility than I thought.

[englishoak]

Well thats where the campus that conducted it is, so i expect so.

[sumtingwong]

Maybe this will help you out on the poll issue.

Margin of error http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margin_of_error

Sample Size Calculator by Raosoft, Inc. http://www.raosoft.com/samplesize.html

[slinky1876]

It is easy, what do the plebs know, apart from growing rice and making somtam. Shame, the only people supporting the green are people covered in grapes and vine. Least I know who the cars belong too! Thought I was in .........?

[englishoak]

Maybe this will help you out on the poll issue.

Margin of error http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margin_of_error

Sample Size Calculator by Raosoft, Inc. http://www.raosoft.com/samplesize.html

For heavens sake, if it had been polled in a northern city do you think it would have been even close ? location makes a heck of a difference in this type of question

You take a poll thats political or in this case a coup you cant do it in one area especially hua hin and its connection that may have a preference and scale it up under margin of error. Nappys or car type preference maybe but not this lol

Edited May 29, 2014 by englishoak

[djjamie]

It's funny, a few years ago I posted on this forum and pointed out that corruption as measured by Transparency International went up after the coup, and received many replies stating it's not possible to draw that conclusion based on two or three years data. Now people are reading great significance into two years worth of data. I'm flexible, we can either agree corruption went up significantly after both the military coup and Yingluck's election, or we can be more cautious and simply agree that corruption as measured by Transparency International has gone up significantly under the 2007 constitution, the one written at the direction of the military junta and then "approved" in a "take this or live under military rule" referendum. Regardless, I don't have any confidence that eliminating corruption is important to the military, I think they have other priorities. In fact I think the people who believe fighting corruption is a top priority for the military are deluding themselves.

In regards to "At least some seem to suggest that. "respect the vote till its counted, say 'thank you, go home' and assume you have a mandate to do what you like"." I'm not sure what you mean. Are you saying that Yingluck's government broke promises made during the campaign? If so, can you provide examples? If not, can you clarify?

Finally, I don't care how much control Thaksin exerted on Yingluck's government, the voters knew or should have known that would be the case and voted for PTP anyway. I actually think the Shinawatra's influence and the PTP's popularity were declining and this would have been demonstrated had their been another election. Of course we'll never know now. No doubt the coup has given the Shinawatra's a tremendous boost in support, just as the 2006 coup made Thaksin a martyr in the eyes of many Thais. That's one of the problems with coups, the unintended consequences.

"take this or live under military rule" referendum.

So according to your logic up to 75% of the people in the North and the North East and in fact most PTP strong holds that voted against the referendum wanted to live under military rule? They gave a reverberating NO to the referendum and what allowed it to pass was the reverberating YES in the central and Southern provinces.

In fact if you look at the Yes and No vote map for the referendum it is eerily a reverse map of the 2011 election results on the right. So the 2011 election voting was respected because it suited the PTP agenda, but the referendum voting was not respected because it did not suit the agenda.

the voters knew or should have known that would be the case and voted for PTP anyway. So this result will be respected.

The referendum voters knew or should have known that they would have lived under military rule if they voted NO and they voted NO anyway. But this result won't be respected.

PTP logic right there. Only respect the majority when it suits the PTP agenda.

I'm not sure where you're going with this, it was a flawed constitution approved as the lesser of the two evils given. Perhaps you're just trying to take the topic off on some kind of tangent. If so, I decline to participate.

He's certain in the absolute his mind produces only perfect logic and that all logic is necessarily and conclusively correct, accurate, true. His absolute reliance on logic and his complete dependency on his peculiar logic regularly takes him where no man has gone before.

Ever deeper and deeper away and into it.

I gave up on the guy sometime during February (don't know his Stardate for our February). I only and sometimes happen to see a post of his as a quote in another poster's post, such as above. What a relief. Highly effective approach that is highly recommended.

Yet you cannot rebut the facts as well.

This is seen all too often from PTP supporters when they are caught out.

I suggest don't even reply when caught out guys.

[Valentine]

- 'Unpredictable and volatile' - from the OP

Was what it was before the coup. It is much safer now that the commie red-shirt thugs have been removed.

Last time I checked, under a democracy, when politicians break the laws or violate the constitution, they are removed and sent to jail for their crimes. Even if they got 100% of the vote, a politician is not a dictator and does not have carte blanche to do anything they want. Getting elected under a Democracy is not a get out of jail free card, no matter how many people voted for you. And PTP got less than 50% of the vote, not even a majority.

No coup ever made democracy better. Not anywhere, not anytime, not in any way(s). Yet these groundhog (coup) day generals keep trying and are determined to keep trying until they get it right, which will never happen because the coup d'état has never caused democracy to improve, not anywhere, not any time, not in any way(s).

Fahlang who came here to bask in a feudal preserve have shown they will advocate fiercely for it and defend it forcefully. And this coup is different but only because it intends to be forceful in the defense of the ancient regime of the Bangkok ammarts. So all criticisms of the former government are invalid in the many instances when the criticisms advocated a military mutiny coup d'état as the cure, because the cure is worse than the disease.

Yes, this "veto" coup is radically different than all previous "guardian" coups and the world knows it, which is why we see some of the global MSM already going straight to the top in their criticisms. The more you make noises in support of martial law militarism, the greater and the unprecedentedly tougher the global reaction is that you invite against it

There was a strong possibility the country was going to experience widespread violence if not civil war & if the coup has prevented that then it has been successful. There are a multitude of rice farmers who will also agree it has been a success.

[i claudius]

i know this is a silly question ,but who is going to run the country? make everyday decisions ,someone has to , even here eventually.

[rubl]

I feel so sorry for all you fellows so focused on Thaksin. Do you honestly believe he is the root of all problems in Thailand, that all corruption emanates from his mysterious desert lair? This is called projection by psychiatrists. You cannot justify in your own mind your support for violence and coups and so you strap on your blinders and repeat, over and over "Its Thaksin's fault". The Cambodians do that to when they say "Pol Pot killed my family" when actually it was a guy living down the street. Its a coping mechanism. At some point to get well you will have to admit there are other sources of problems in Thailand, and if Thaksin disappeared tomorrow, they would remain. The road to recovery begins with the first step.

By the way; by any objective measure Thaksin was the most effective and loved PM in the history of Thailand.

If Thaksin with his CEO pass down orders style was so effective and popular there is hope for the NCPO head general you mean?

[rubl]

i know this is a silly question ,but who is going to run the country? make everyday decisions ,someone has to , even here eventually.

The Country is run by the NCPO, it's Advisory Board, Senior bureaucrats heading Ministries, the normal people below that.

[AleG]

- 'Unpredictable and volatile' - from the OP

Was what it was before the coup. It is much safer now that the commie red-shirt thugs have been removed.

Last time I checked, under a democracy, when politicians break the laws or violate the constitution, they are removed and sent to jail for their crimes. Even if they got 100% of the vote, a politician is not a dictator and does not have carte blanche to do anything they want. Getting elected under a Democracy is not a get out of jail free card, no matter how many people voted for you. And PTP got less than 50% of the vote, not even a majority.

No coup ever made democracy better. Not anywhere, not anytime, not in any way(s). Yet these groundhog (coup) day generals keep trying and are determined to keep trying until they get it right, which will never happen because the coup d'état has never caused democracy to improve, not anywhere, not any time, not in any way(s).

Fahlang who came here to bask in a feudal preserve have shown they will advocate fiercely for it and defend it forcefully. And this coup is different but only because it intends to be forceful in the defense of the ancient regime of the Bangkok ammarts. So all criticisms of the former government are invalid in the many instances when the criticisms advocated a military mutiny coup d'état as the cure, because the cure is worse than the disease.

Yes, this "veto" coup is radically different than all previous "guardian" coups and the world knows it, which is why we see some of the global MSM already going straight to the top in their criticisms. The more you make noises in support of martial law militarism, the greater and the unprecedentedly tougher the global reaction is that you invite against it

No coup ever made democracy better. Not anywhere, not anytime, not in any way(s).

How did Thailand move from absolute monarchy to a (flawed) democratic system?

Then of course, it's the 1974 coup in Portugal that reinstated Democracy in the country, so your premise is wrong.

[rubl]

I meant they did a good job of predicting Thailand's political future, not specific events and natural disasters. I thought that was obvious, apparently not. In any event, all issues mentioned should have been factors in the proposed election, not dealt with by a military coup.

I'll now make a prediction on reforms--there will be no serious attempt to eliminate corruption, there will be a serious attempt to strengthen traditional institutions and secure them against loss of power to future democracies. Do you predict something different?

One final thought; people who support this coup think it will provide a quick fix to Thailand's problems, just as people who supported the last coup thought it would provide a quick fix, and people who will support the next coup will think the same thing. Past, present and future, they are wrong. There is no quick fix, democracy has to be given a chance to establish itself, voters a chance to learn what democracy can provide and how to demand it during elections, and losers in the elections have to accept their losses and attempt to do a better job of appealing to the majority in the next election.

I may have taken your "accurately predicted" a bit too literal.

As for reforms I'm not involved, but can only hope we get some real ones now, binding to ALL. As I mentioned a while ago in another topic that maybe something some of the old guard do not realize yet.

I don't think there is an easy, painless solution for a problem which has only escalated the last few years and with people on all sides having been somewhat indoctrinated on being 'right'. A change in social structure, peoples mindset, constitution, laws and enforcement is something which any society tends to resist.

Elections? Come back next year, now we still have the "respect a vote till its counted" mentality to fight against. Not that I think next year Thailand will be much more ready to be 'democratic', but I don't think the Junta or even an 'appointed government' should stay longer than absolutely necessary to get a few changes done and others sufficiently in progress.

Of course 'reforms' will be as heybruce 'predicts', that is they will be designed to cap the power of a democratically elected government subjugate it to institutions whose members are appointed and not answerable to the electorate. In other words to have a castrated democracy with power back where it traditionally used to be. However the populace is politically less ignorant or subservient than it used to be, so trouble will brew once again.

Of course reforms will be.

The rest is not fact but fiction.

Edited May 30, 2014 by rubl

[sumtingwong]

According to you under a democracy, once elected a politician can break any law and violate the constitution all he wants, including having anybody he feels like executed, like the commies did in Cambodia. Must be why the commie red-shirt thugs fly the Cambodian flag at their raves. Good one. It does not sound like democracy to me. It sounds like communism. They have elections to.

The troll is strong in this one.

I wonder how a long a similarly extended but anti-yellow tsunami of nonsense would last.

You do not have to remove my id from my post. I have no problem with what I said. I would not want to live in what you guys think is a democracy where whom ever is elected can break any law they want and violate the constitution. That is insane IMHO.

[kimamey]

I find it hard to believe every minister had the time to read every report that lands in his in try, yet probably watches a news program and/or reads a newspaper over breakfast and listens to the radio or reads a newspaper while travelling to work.

The foreign secretary or the FCO minister before he releases an official statement regarding the Thai situation takes into account the views of his ambassador in Thailand. And even if he is silly enough not to do it, the FCO staff who draft the statement do. I think one can take that as a given.

I find it hard to believe that the minister had read a true report on the on going situation...

Speaking today, the Minister of State responsible for South East Asia, Hugo Swire, said:

I am extremely concerned at the deterioration of the democratic environment in Thailand. Arbitrary detentions, restrictions on local and foreign media, and limitations on freedoms of expression and assembly undermine trust in the intentions of the military leaders. I urge the Thai military authorities to provide a clear timetable for the restoration of civilian government by means of elections, in line with democratic values, and to respond proportionately to peaceful protest and dissent. In view of these negative developments, the UK is reviewing the scope of its cooperation with Thailand.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/fco-minister-extremely-concerned-about-situation-in-thailand

Is he aware that Thailand is a lot safer than it was 7 days ago?

Is he aware that the thugs who have been shooting and throwing grenades are actually being rounded up and arrested?

Is he aware that the poor rice farmers are now being paid?

Thailand has improved a lot in the last 7 days, yes the situation of Thailand without a democratic elected government is a concern but until it has a constitution that outlaws corruption and allows for a election system that speaks for all, what Thailand has is a lot better than what it had last week.

Funny how he did not speak out about the corruption in last administration.

He's just saying what anyone in a western democratic government would say. They can't say they think a lack of elections and democratic government is OK and even the general says he plans on elections rather than keeping military law. The FCO travel advice hasn't changed much, just avoid the usual southern areas and protests so they seem to understand the situation.

I live in Mahasarakham in Isaan and have been to Khon Kaen, Roi Et and Bangkok recently and I'm going again this weekend. I stayed near Victory Monument and the only problem was for my wife coming back from a meeting when the road was blocked by protesters. Never felt unsafe and the same goes when I had to go through a protest site in February so yes things are OK and the military seem to be doing a good job although I think they would do better if they stooped any incitement to violence on the internet and left any criticism of the army and coup as the positive domestic and international PR from that is what they need.

[Zooheekock]

How did Thailand move from absolute monarchy to a (flawed) democratic system?

That event is called การปฏิวัติสยาม not การรัฐประหารสยาม - In Thai, it isn't called a coup and the most important person in it, Pridi, was a civilian (There was also a significant civilian presence in the People's Party.)

I would not want to live in what you guys think is a democracy

Right now, if you're in Thailand, you don't live in any kind of democracy so nothing for you to worry about there.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Zooheekock

[rabas]

Speaking of the majority of the Thais, now that is a mandate.

Poll shows over 75 percent of the people support martial law

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/728104-thai-poll-shows-over-75-percent-of-the-people-support-martial-law/

Much higher than the minority of the Thais that voted for PTP.

In reality, of the 74% of Thais that turned out to vote on July 3, 2011, only 48% actually cast votes for Peua Thai (PTP). Of all eligible voters, that is a tenuous 35% mandate, hardly what can be called “decisively backed.”

Definition coup ko͞o/ noun

noun: coup; plural noun: coups; noun: coup d'état; plural noun: coups d'état; plural noun: coup d'états

1. a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government.

I guess this was not a coup in Thailand then. The Thai military is legally authorized to take over, even the USA military is also legally authorized to take over should the need arise.

This was a coup de maladie corrupt. Welcomed, and peaceful.

[Zooheekock]

There was a strong possibility the country was going to experience widespread violence if not civil war & if the coup has prevented that then it has been successful.

Let me rephrase that to make it a bit clearer:

There is a strong possibility that the country is going to experience widespread violence if not civil war now that the PDRC have been successful.

There, that's a bit better, isn't it?

Edited May 30, 2014 by Zooheekock

[AleG]

- 'Unpredictable and volatile' - from the OP

Was what it was before the coup. It is much safer now that the commie red-shirt thugs have been removed.

Last time I checked, under a democracy, when politicians break the laws or violate the constitution, they are removed and sent to jail for their crimes. Even if they got 100% of the vote, a politician is not a dictator and does not have carte blanche to do anything they want. Getting elected under a Democracy is not a get out of jail free card, no matter how many people voted for you. And PTP got less than 50% of the vote, not even a majority.

No coup ever made democracy better. Not anywhere, not anytime, not in any way(s). Yet these groundhog (coup) day generals keep trying and are determined to keep trying until they get it right, which will never happen because the coup d'état has never caused democracy to improve, not anywhere, not any time, not in any way(s).

Fahlang who came here to bask in a feudal preserve have shown they will advocate fiercely for it and defend it forcefully. And this coup is different but only because it intends to be forceful in the defense of the ancient regime of the Bangkok ammarts. So all criticisms of the former government are invalid in the many instances when the criticisms advocated a military mutiny coup d'état as the cure, because the cure is worse than the disease.

Yes, this "veto" coup is radically different than all previous "guardian" coups and the world knows it, which is why we see some of the global MSM already going straight to the top in their criticisms. The more you make noises in support of martial law militarism, the greater and the unprecedentedly tougher the global reaction is that you invite against it

There was a strong possibility the country was going to experience widespread violence if not civil war & if the coup has prevented that then it has been successful. There are a multitude of rice farmers who will also agree it has been a success.

To blurb that the military mutiny coup d'état is a success is a wild, irresponsible and extreme claim that is completely unsupportable in any respect. The fact of the coup itself is a statement of the failure of the Thai state, Thai society, civility itself. Every action of the military ruling council only digs the hole deeper.

The military did nothing to stop fascist thugs from assaulting innocent voters at the polls, a fatal failure of omission that began the country's irreversible slide into its present morass, as in fact was the design and purpose of its elites in Bangkok.

The severe and sharp differences you reference were the creation of people who have consciously chosen to reject democracy and who are callous toward civil society, people who are knowingly and willfully provocative. The Bangkok elites have deliberately rejected democracy and democratic processes, so they necessarily had to resort to the streets and to street mobs to assert themselves politically.

The lawless anarchy of the Bangkok ammarts and their disrespect of the rule of law have created a vacuum of law and order that will come up and bite them in their arse. Those who seed the clouds to create storms must necessarily reap the whirlwind they themselves create.

The people who precipitated a martial law military dictatorship that is a law unto itself are speeding obliviously along the highway to hell. I am pleased to clear the roads for them except that they are taking the country with them. Which means there are tens of millions of Thais the Bangkok ammarts don't care about in any way, shape, form.

This is their perverse mark of success you are blurbing about.

The people who precipitated a martial law military dictatorship that is a law unto itself are speeding obliviously along the highway to hell.

That would be the Red Shirts and their political masters with their calls for civil war, secesion and their acts of terrorism against the people of Thailand.

[sumtingwong]

How did Thailand move from absolute monarchy to a (flawed) democratic system?

That event is called การปฏิวัติสยาม not การรัฐประหารสยาม - In Thai, it isn't called a coup and the most important person in it, Pridi, was a civilian (There was also a significant civilian presence in the People's Party.)

I would not want to live in what you guys think is a democracy

Right now, if you're in Thailand, you don't live in any kind of democracy so nothing for you to worry about there.

It was not a democracy either before the Thai military did their job and protected Thailand from enemies foreign and domestic, plus they stopped a civil war, thankfully.

[Publicus]

No coup ever made democracy better. Not anywhere, not anytime, not in any way(s). Yet these groundhog (coup) day generals keep trying and are determined to keep trying until they get it right, which will never happen because the coup d'état has never caused democracy to improve, not anywhere, not any time, not in any way(s).

Fahlang who came here to bask in a feudal preserve have shown they will advocate fiercely for it and defend it forcefully. And this coup is different but only because it intends to be forceful in the defense of the ancient regime of the Bangkok ammarts. So all criticisms of the former government are invalid in the many instances when the criticisms advocated a military mutiny coup d'état as the cure, because the cure is worse than the disease.

Yes, this "veto" coup is radically different than all previous "guardian" coups and the world knows it, which is why we see some of the global MSM already going straight to the top in their criticisms. The more you make noises in support of martial law militarism, the greater and the unprecedentedly tougher the global reaction is that you invite against it

There was a strong possibility the country was going to experience widespread violence if not civil war & if the coup has prevented that then it has been successful. There are a multitude of rice farmers who will also agree it has been a success.

To blurb that the military mutiny coup d'état is a success is a wild, irresponsible and extreme claim that is completely unsupportable in any respect. The fact of the coup itself is a statement of the failure of the Thai state, Thai society, civility itself. Every action of the military ruling council only digs the hole deeper.

The military did nothing to stop fascist thugs from assaulting innocent voters at the polls, a fatal failure of omission that began the country's irreversible slide into its present morass, as in fact was the design and purpose of its elites in Bangkok.

The severe and sharp differences you reference were the creation of people who have consciously chosen to reject democracy and who are callous toward civil society, people who are knowingly and willfully provocative. The Bangkok elites have deliberately rejected democracy and democratic processes, so they necessarily had to resort to the streets and to street mobs to assert themselves politically.

The lawless anarchy of the Bangkok ammarts and their disrespect of the rule of law have created a vacuum of law and order that will come up and bite them in their arse. Those who seed the clouds to create storms must necessarily reap the whirlwind they themselves create.

The people who precipitated a martial law military dictatorship that is a law unto itself are speeding obliviously along the highway to hell. I am pleased to clear the roads for them except that they are taking the country with them. Which means there are tens of millions of Thais the Bangkok ammarts don't care about in any way, shape, form.

This is their perverse mark of success you are blurbing about.

The people who precipitated a martial law military dictatorship that is a law unto itself are speeding obliviously along the highway to hell.

That would be the Red Shirts and their political masters with their calls for civil war, secesion and their acts of terrorism against the people of Thailand.

You are certain you are clever.

Very sad indeed.

Laughably so.

[AleG]

To blurb that the military mutiny coup d'état is a success is a wild, irresponsible and extreme claim that is completely unsupportable in any respect. The fact of the coup itself is a statement of the failure of the Thai state, Thai society, civility itself. Every action of the military ruling council only digs the hole deeper.

The military did nothing to stop fascist thugs from assaulting innocent voters at the polls, a fatal failure of omission that began the country's irreversible slide into its present morass, as in fact was the design and purpose of its elites in Bangkok.

The severe and sharp differences you reference were the creation of people who have consciously chosen to reject democracy and who are callous toward civil society, people who are knowingly and willfully provocative. The Bangkok elites have deliberately rejected democracy and democratic processes, so they necessarily had to resort to the streets and to street mobs to assert themselves politically.

The lawless anarchy of the Bangkok ammarts and their disrespect of the rule of law have created a vacuum of law and order that will come up and bite them in their arse. Those who seed the clouds to create storms must necessarily reap the whirlwind they themselves create.

The people who precipitated a martial law military dictatorship that is a law unto itself are speeding obliviously along the highway to hell. I am pleased to clear the roads for them except that they are taking the country with them. Which means there are tens of millions of Thais the Bangkok ammarts don't care about in any way, shape, form.

This is their perverse mark of success you are blurbing about.

The people who precipitated a martial law military dictatorship that is a law unto itself are speeding obliviously along the highway to hell.

That would be the Red Shirts and their political masters with their calls for civil war, secesion and their acts of terrorism against the people of Thailand.

You are certain you are clever.

Very sad indeed.

Laughably so.

So the actions by the Red Shirts and those that control them were of no consequence to the current situation?

[rubl]

There was a strong possibility the country was going to experience widespread violence if not civil war & if the coup has prevented that then it has been successful.

Let me rephrase that to make it a bit clearer:

There is a strong possibility that the country is going to experience widespread violence if not civil war now that the PDRC have been successful.

There, that's a bit better, isn't it?

You mean that now that reforms will truly be started the country will experience widespread violence?

Now I understand why the Army wants all war weapons to be surrendered before the 10th of June.

[rabas]

There was a strong possibility the country was going to experience widespread violence if not civil war & if the coup has prevented that then it has been successful.

Let me rephrase that to make it a bit clearer:

There is a strong possibility that the country is going to experience widespread violence if not civil war now that the PDRC have been successful.

There, that's a bit better, isn't it?

Both are wrong.

There was a strong possibility the country would experience long and protracted low grade political violence and killing, the way it has always experienced under the influence of Thaksin's reds. The army's action has prevented that.

Clear, precise, truthful, and to the point. No starry eyed Western revolutionary dreams.