Never easy but inevitable - just a thought.

[CharlieH]

There are many retired men etc here and I just wanted to highlight something that overtime and with over indulgence etc can sometimes be forgotten, its always "later".

I had a vistor today, a second one actually, from a sweet Thai lady in her early 40's, she came to ask for my help sorting out her husbands affairs as he had recently passed on. I am not going into who or where for obvious privacy reasons. I just want to ask if some of you can just give a thought to how things might be dealt with if you happen to "check out" earlier than you anticipated.

Yes we are all invincible, all got the insurance , the will, etc and maybe none of you have, your dead its not your worry, ok if thats you outlook I am not about to judge anyone, its an individual thing.

But, if you do happen to care for that Thai lady you are with, made a home with, perhaps had children with, please take a moment to consider what she actually has to go through to get anything by way of pension, bereavement allowance, etc etc

I am a Brit and I find some of these forms and procedures daunting, for a young Thai woman with very limited English its pityful to see the distress and plea for help to sort it out.

This particular incident left the poor girl with nothing, the house was rented and has to ve handed back, she had to borrow big money as security against hospital treatment/ bills. She and her child have to move back with her family as she now has nothing, the family pulled together to pay for the funeral etc. He left nothing except major credit card balances in the Uk, which will wipe out any small money there was from other sources.

I said before, I am not judging, but this guy borrowed upto the hilt from anywhere, then checked out leaving her to sort it out. Thats the other side of the coin we dont often see or hear about.

Is that how you want to be remembered, and how you want the woman who cared for you and took care of you when the chips were down to face alone ?

Just saying guys, give it a little thought and planning if you really care about her, let your parting gift be a stress free one for her atleast.

Ok, lets have the onslaught, I know many cant control themselves.

[AhFarangJa]

CharlieH,

Excellent post. I myself am often left wondering why I hear of foreigners living in Thailand do not make preparations for their families when it would be second nature in their home country. I am still in the process of jumping through all these hoops, and one piece of advice I was given by my lawyer in Hua Hin, was that she could not do anything regarding any assets in U.K. , pensions, shares, bank accounts etc. only assets in Thailand, (for which the fee is a flat rate of four thousand Baht only, money well spent I feel) That was a big eye opener for me. As you say, it is a daunting task for a Thai lady to wade through all that paperwork, If your post spurs even one person into action it will have been worth it,

[Daffy D]

Good post.

Timely reminder not to "do it someday"

Someday may be just too late.

[Swiss1960]

Your of course right, CharlieH and there is a pinned topic about "Will in Thailand" right here in this forum..

But from lot of post, most guys writing here are more concerned about their Thai wifes access to their assets during lifetime than after death....

But the main points to think about are

- do you want your Thai wife to have access to all your assets, also back home?

- did you register your marriage not only in Thailand, but also with your home country (through Embassy mainly)?

- did you create a will for both Thailand and your home country?

- did you leave clear instructions for your wife about who to approach and how in case of your death, make sure she knows which forms to gather where and how to fill them out and who to send them to - or did you (even better) prepare all those forms for your wife?

The important thing is to educate your wife about these procedures, since a lot of them (like state pension, the need for documents etc.) just do not exist in Thailand (or only for certain groups like government workers) and thus, your wife can not know about them, if you don't teach her / prepare her for that situation.

Edited May 27, 2014 by Swiss1960

[Munger]

Good post.

Timely reminder not to "do it someday"

Someday may be just too late.

It sure is a better post than his previous one i.e. "God bless one and all (the prostitutes)"

[wwest5829]

Good post. I have started. Have a separate Thai Will and American Will. What comes to Thailand will stay in Thailand and be inherited by my wife here. U.S. Funds go to my sons. Here her property goes to her daughters. The biggest issue I have to deal with is the reporting of the death and getting the forms filed. U.S. Friend, Executor of Thai Will is allocated 20k baht for costs. I think I need to do better. Lanna Care Net, here in Chiang Mai will have an, " end of life" issues seminar in July. Think I better attend. Ha! Maybe I don't have to worry. Wife says she intends to keep me alive for 35 more years ( in my 60's now) as she get 1 baht of gold each year on her birthday!

[AYJAYDEE]

CharlieH,

Excellent post. I myself am often left wondering why I hear of foreigners living in Thailand do not make preparations for their families when it would be second nature in their home country. I am still in the process of jumping through all these hoops, and one piece of advice I was given by my lawyer in Hua Hin, was that she could not do anything regarding any assets in U.K. , pensions, shares, bank accounts etc. only assets in Thailand, (for which the fee is a flat rate of four thousand Baht only, money well spent I feel) That was a big eye opener for me. As you say, it is a daunting task for a Thai lady to wade through all that paperwork, If your post spurs even one person into action it will have been worth it,

have you got any advice from a UK lawyer?

[Just1Voice]

I'm 66, my wife is 56, and over a year ago we sat down and put together a folder which included all the information she would need for when I die, as well as all information of what I need should she die first. Her's is actually more complex than mine. lol. If I die, it's relatively simple for her, but just a matter of time for the paperwork to be processed. For that she has tons on help from the VFW and VFW Women's Auxiliary here in Chiang Mai. Simply take them all the forms I've already filled out, minus date/cause of death, and then wait about a year for my disability to kick in for her, and the 3-4 month wait for my Thai life insurance to pay off.

If she dies first, things are much more complicated with various insurance companies, and other things. I have copies of everything, with explanations and notes in English, but it will still be a busy, and time consuming process. But it's something we both knew had to be done to protect each other and our son.

I don't understand foreign men who live here, have families here, and don't take the proper and necessary requirements to make sure their family is provided for in the event of their death, which comes to us all.

[terry Meltham]

Good email and am very sad for the Thai lady to end up like this.

I think too meny Expats here will little money and in the long term situations like this will grow.

[evadgib]

The 'Pensions' thread is worth a look too, not least because the widow & child may be entitled to bereavement benefits/payments based on the husbands NI cont.

I have applicable details in an obscure* file on my computer explaining what to do in event of my demise. The file is updated annually (P60 an' all that). I'm not expecting to need it for a while (early 50's) but it's there all the same. When my children are older I will ensure they know what to do too.

(*friends have been fully briefed, inc executors of will. The file is obscure in case the computer/data is stolen).

Related link:

https://www.gov.uk/register-a-death/y/overseas/thailand/same_country

HTH

Edited May 28, 2014 by evadgib

[excelchain]

Nice post.

[landslide]

I am an American so I am looking at that time from a US point of view, but the philosophy is the same. At age 59, I am not ready to check out yet, but you never know what can happen. I have set up a will, with my younger brother designated as my executor. I have also given him power of attorney over my affairs, in the event of I am unable to direct my own financial affairs. All of this was put in place by an attorney in the US, and a corresponding will is registered in Thailand. 90% of my assets, excluding the house (which is in my wife's name anyway) are in the form of a revocable trust, and will go to my wife, the balance to my sister. My brother and I have gone over the will, and he understands my intention is to insure my wife is relieved of this chore at my death, and is taken care of financially after I am gone. My brother and his wife know my wife well, and will insure that my wife has immediate cash to maintain her lifestyle while the will is in probate. My brother will arrange for Social Security spousal benefits as well. Since my wife is younger than I, this has been a concern for me. By getting my affairs in place now, I do not have to worry when the time comes. If you care about your spouse, it is the least you can do. My wife is college educated, and quite intelligent, and is more than capable of managing her financial affairs, once the problems of dealing with the US laws and regulations are done. The point may be moot, as my wife swears I will outlive her. Who knows?

[1FinickyOne]

Not an easy subject - - I have seen people thoughtfully put things together only to have a "trusted" executor likely not act in that manner. It is good to have a plan and if really concerned for a spouse, if you can afford it, put assets in her name. And as always, after that, figure it as a gift to your spouse - it sounds like your friend did not have too much in the first place. Sorry for the widow with what sounds like nothing but problems...

[TheSwede99]

It's not easy, just such a thing as writing a will seem very complicated.

In Sweden I sit down and just write up what I want and with two witnesses it is 100% valid.

Here in Thailand you will get different answers and I do not know what is what. Some says you have to take the help of a lawyer and that the idiom is very important. I've seen wills written by lawyers who are very detailed with account numbers, registration numbers, etc. What happens if I get new bank accounts, new car, etc. The will must be rewritten with new legal fees.

Can't I just write my will with two witnesses and keep it at home in a drawer?

Can't I just write "All my money in Thailand both cash and bank balances and all my belongings in Thailand, I give to NN"

[JimHuaHin]

It's not easy, just such a thing as writing a will seem very complicated.

In Sweden I sit down and just write up what I want and with two witnesses it is 100% valid.

Here in Thailand you will get different answers and I do not know what is what. Some says you have to take the help of a lawyer and that the idiom is very important. I've seen wills written by lawyers who are very detailed with account numbers, registration numbers, etc. What happens if I get new bank accounts, new car, etc. The will must be rewritten with new legal fees.

Can't I just write my will with two witnesses and keep it at home in a drawer?

Can't I just write "All my money in Thailand both cash and bank balances and all my belongings in Thailand, I give to NN"

I showed a couple of Thai lawyer acquaintances a copy of my Australian will, and asked them if the Australian will was in an acceptable format, with acceptable wording, to be legal in Thailand.; and except for the phrase "executors and trustees", which needed to replaced with the word "administratrators", their reponses were "yes".

One can download an "Estate Information Manual" - see, for example www.gjalaw.com/Sites/191/.../Estate%20Information%20Sheet.doc - Google the phrase - which can help you with information you need to have recorded, but should not appear in your will.

[joshstiles]

Charlie

Thank you for the excellent post....it is rare to see such a post of this quality on TV. Lately the post have been total rubbish. You give new hope to TV posters...perhaps more will follow your example and provide post that are more heartfelt and informative.

Ironically, my Thai wife and I have just had this "what if you or what if I die" discussion. Neither of us are near the "dying" age, however accidents do happen. It is good to be prepared as much as possible.

Once again, thanks.

[TheSwede99]

It's not easy, just such a thing as writing a will seem very complicated.

In Sweden I sit down and just write up what I want and with two witnesses it is 100% valid.

Here in Thailand you will get different answers and I do not know what is what. Some says you have to take the help of a lawyer and that the idiom is very important. I've seen wills written by lawyers who are very detailed with account numbers, registration numbers, etc. What happens if I get new bank accounts, new car, etc. The will must be rewritten with new legal fees.

Can't I just write my will with two witnesses and keep it at home in a drawer?

Can't I just write "All my money in Thailand both cash and bank balances and all my belongings in Thailand, I give to NN"

I showed a couple of Thai lawyer acquaintances a copy of my Australian will, and asked them if the Australian will was in an acceptable format, with acceptable wording, to be legal in Thailand.; and except for the phrase "executors and trustees", which needed to replaced with the word "administratrators", their reponses were "yes".

One can download an "Estate Information Manual" - see, for example www.gjalaw.com/Sites/191/.../Estate%20Information%20Sheet.doc - Google the phrase - which can help you with information you need to have recorded, but should not appear in your will.

Thanks JimHuaHin, that was a good document, very useful.

[dotpoom]

My wife's friend was widowed recently. Her husband was receiving a pension from the American army. He died in his bed after been released from a hospital. She was left penniless in their rented house. She had to make numerous visits to the Embassy in BKK with any relevant papers concerning his army service that she could find from his possessions (not easy when you can't read English). She had to borrow from the moneylenders to cremate him. Although he had many drinking friends who used to come to his house, only one of them offered financial support by repaying half of the money she borrowed. She was told she has no right to a army pension while at the Embassy (I asked if she was not entitled to an Army widow's pension). The latest news I got was that she is being giving a lump sum of 60,000 Baht by the Army.

I'm well aware that the story might have lost something in translation when it arrived at my ears and there are two sides to every story but I share the sentiments of the OP. How utterly selfish it is of a person not to take proper measures to make sure those we leave behind who have shared our lives are taken care of in the event of our demise and our affairs are in order to the best of our ability and not leave them with the burden and struggle of finding the money to bury us.....especially when they could afford to "booze it up" every night.

[kennypowers]

I'm surprised you're surprised, OP.

The fact is many just don't give a crap. They came here for purely self-centered reasons with no intention of making any Thai's life any better – to be served/treated like a prince by the little brown people, and to be serviced sexually by their women - and will leave with the same self-centered, ignorant, Euro/US-centric colonial attitude.

Said farangs take a maid with benefits (girlfriend/wife), and continue to berate and complain at all things Thai until they die.

Why should they care? If the dog was born in the barn, the dog should sleep in the barn for life, right?

[freebyrd]

I'm no longer living in TL, I'm in a neighbouring Asian country. I live a quiet life, still working and after three decades on and off all over Asia, my partying days are long behind me.

Let's not forget for whatever reason that ther are those of us that don't have piles of assets to leave behind. After a 'colourful' life, I have a partner here, a lady with simple tastes and who is totally selfless. We have a joint savings account with what I have in this world, not a fortune but added to monthly and will hopefully serve her well in the years after I kick off. The contents of our rented apartment and the money will be hers when it's my time to go. A work colleague will help her inform my embassy and relatives of my demise and self off our bits and bobs and as is her want, she will move back to her family in the province. I haven't consulted a lawyer here as I'm not convinced they wouldn't try to fleece here come the time.

Leaving someone to deal with everything on their own with no help and no English reading or writing skills is rather a selfish act.

[wileycoyote]

Excellent Posting

[Foxter]

Your of course right, CharlieH and there is a pinned topic about "Will in Thailand" right here in this forum..

But from lot of post, most guys writing here are more concerned about their Thai wifes access to their assets during lifetime than after death....

But the main points to think about are

- do you want your Thai wife to have access to all your assets, also back home?

- did you register your marriage not only in Thailand, but also with your home country (through Embassy mainly)?

- did you create a will for both Thailand and your home country?

- did you leave clear instructions for your wife about who to approach and how in case of your death, make sure she knows which forms to gather where and how to fill them out and who to send them to - or did you (even better) prepare all those forms for your wife?

The important thing is to educate your wife about these procedures, since a lot of them (like state pension, the need for documents etc.) just do not exist in Thailand (or only for certain groups like government workers) and thus, your wife can not know about them, if you don't teach her / prepare her for that situation.

I asked about this , you can only have one will, you can't have two wills , if you do the newest one ,moots the older one. I got legal advice , both in the UK and in Thailand, and I can confirm you will is world wide regardless of where you live or where your assets are. So then you make a will, be aware of that .

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[stgrhe]

I am a Swede and no longer have any assits back in Sweden, everything is in Thailand. This is what I have planned for when that day comes:

1) I have a will that in detail describes how I want my funeral (My wife's command in English is good)

2) All assits in my name will be hers

3) The land and the house is in her name (I have a usufruct right)

4) The part of my pension that is transferrable will automatically be sent to her, and this for the durarion of her life

5) Over the years I have additionally been building up a fond so my wife will have a decent standard after i have gone.

She works as a nursing sister and makes about 35,000 baht per month so even without me she wouldn't be too bad of.

[Swiss1960]

Your of course right, CharlieH and there is a pinned topic about "Will in Thailand" right here in this forum..

But from lot of post, most guys writing here are more concerned about their Thai wifes access to their assets during lifetime than after death....

But the main points to think about are

- do you want your Thai wife to have access to all your assets, also back home?

- did you register your marriage not only in Thailand, but also with your home country (through Embassy mainly)?

- did you create a will for both Thailand and your home country?

- did you leave clear instructions for your wife about who to approach and how in case of your death, make sure she knows which forms to gather where and how to fill them out and who to send them to - or did you (even better) prepare all those forms for your wife?

The important thing is to educate your wife about these procedures, since a lot of them (like state pension, the need for documents etc.) just do not exist in Thailand (or only for certain groups like government workers) and thus, your wife can not know about them, if you don't teach her / prepare her for that situation.

I asked about this , you can only have one will, you can't have two wills , if you do the newest one ,moots the older one. I got legal advice , both in the UK and in Thailand, and I can confirm you will is world wide regardless of where you live or where your assets are. So then you make a will, be aware of that .

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Can't speak about the UK, only about Switzerland. When i talk about a will for both Thailand and the home country, this can be one document, but their are certain things you can do:

• As a Swiss, you can give a certified copy of your last will to the Swiss Embassy and when your wife knows that, she can then use this will for gathering any assets that would remain in my home country (if this is my will) and the Embassy would act as an executor
• important is that I do subordinate my assets in Switzerland for execution under the Swiss law, this is basically what the Swiss authorities recommend to write: "I submit the execution of my legacy in Switzerland under Swiss law".

[Benmart]

Good post.

Timely reminder not to "do it someday"

Someday may be just too late.

It sure is a better post than his previous one i.e. "God bless one and all (the prostitutes)"

To comment positively on a present post and then qualify it with comments concerning an indiscreet post from the past is puzzling.

I prefer to leave past posts in the archive unless they have direct relevance to the present.

[Strangebrew]

My ducks are all lined up Firstly the will is in place present girlfriend setup through lawyer upon my exit stage right. I keep enough cash in safe to tide her over till all gets cleared. As far as my carase A cell phone in safe just charge it all number to be called in there alomg with 2000 baht to cover calls Being creamated she knows this spread ashes or flush down toilet don't care. Other than that been real see you next time around.

[KonKorat]

That is very sad news,i feel for the poor lady,i am lucky i have no debt,no credit cards,i don't have much money in savings,but i do have a good superannuation fund which would take care of my spouse and children after i am gone.

[AhFarangJa]

CharlieH,

Excellent post. I myself am often left wondering why I hear of foreigners living in Thailand do not make preparations for their families when it would be second nature in their home country. I am still in the process of jumping through all these hoops, and one piece of advice I was given by my lawyer in Hua Hin, was that she could not do anything regarding any assets in U.K. , pensions, shares, bank accounts etc. only assets in Thailand, (for which the fee is a flat rate of four thousand Baht only, money well spent I feel) That was a big eye opener for me. As you say, it is a daunting task for a Thai lady to wade through all that paperwork, If your post spurs even one person into action it will have been worth it,

have you got any advice from a UK lawyer?

Hi AYJAYDEE, Two years ago I was in U.K for my brothers funeral. He died intestate, and I had to sort out his estate (sadly not a lot). I enquired at the same time about my circumstances. I was quoted three hundred pounds an hour and a minimum of six hours work. I did not have time to do anything then, but was advised by the lawyer to sever all ties with U.K. even to the extent of removing personal effects from my Nephews attic space as it could leave me open to big death duties. Still pursuing it, though it seems unless you are a multi millionaire it is a minefield. Of course I am always open to any advice!!

[circusman]

I believe the correct term is DEATH not checking out.

[evadgib]

My wife's friend was widowed recently. Her husband was receiving a pension from the American army. He died in his bed after been released from a hospital. She was left penniless in their rented house. She had to make numerous visits to the Embassy in BKK with any relevant papers concerning his army service that she could find from his possessions (not easy when you can't read English). She had to borrow from the moneylenders to cremate him. Although he had many drinking friends who used to come to his house, only one of them offered financial support by repaying half of the money she borrowed. She was told she has no right to a army pension while at the Embassy (I asked if she was not entitled to an Army widow's pension). The latest news I got was that she is being giving a lump sum of 60,000 Baht by the Army.

I'm well aware that the story might have lost something in translation when it arrived at my ears and there are two sides to every story but I share the sentiments of the OP. How utterly selfish it is of a person not to take proper measures to make sure those we leave behind who have shared our lives are taken care of in the event of our demise and our affairs are in order to the best of our ability and not leave them with the burden and struggle of finding the money to bury us.....especially when they could afford to "booze it up" every night.

Having seen how well the Americans look after their veterans compared to other nations I suspect there will be something for this widow if she were able to contact the appropriate network. The only surprise (to me) is that she didn't have the details to hand.