Pakistan woman stoned by family outside Lahore court

[dotpoom]

I once read that the normal state of mind of humans on planet earth......was a state of insanity.......if you have any doubts switch on any news channel. The men in suits are the worst examples....if the average "Joe" did what the top brass do they would be locked up in a place for the criminally insane.

[gamini]

It's nothing to do with religion. It's cultural.

It's a mixture of both.

How do you know they were not christians? These matters are cultural and caste related. Indonesia has the worlds largest muslim country and these things never happen there. There are bad people in all religions.

[ggt]

Dang...don't want to offend the family in Afghanistan...it could be your last day of existence...

[smew]

Let them into UK..

[F430murci]

Stuck in the stone age mentality: culturally, economically, socially, politically and theologically - no wonder, since there is nothing but stones in that country. Walk out the door: stones, as far as the eye can see, stones. You grow up with stones and you know nothing else but never-ending stones. The west supports the stoners in Stonistan financially, so they don't throw their stones in our direction, while their Muslim brothers in other countries say nothing...why? Because they have camels, nothing but camels in those other countries...and sand, lot's of sand... and an occasional goat - so they are too busy to say something about their stone throwing brothers. Yep, that's all I have to say about that.

This is one culture that begs to be extinct.

Fricken love it. That was actually slightly entertaining to read.

[Andre0720]

It's nothing to do with religion. It's cultural.

Most of one's culture stems from his (her) religion...

[folium]

I'm sure the clown from another thread who vehemently insists that this is only their business will be along in a minute .........

Utter savages but its also closer to home than you think !!

Talking of being closer to home than you think.....

This brutal murder is truly shocking and a tragic situation.

However it could be seen as the overt and brutal face of something that is occurring on a far greater scale and spanning multiple cultures, religions and political systems.

Estimates of the number of "missing girls" reach in excess of 165 million. These missing girls are reflected in the gender ratio imbalance seen in many Asian countries.

This "gendercide", as it is termed, is fuelled by cultural preference, easy access to ultrasounds and ironically falling fertility rates.

In sheer numbers China has the most and as a direct result will see approximately 35 million "excess" males by 2030, who won't be happy bunnies!

South Korea is one of the few Asian countries that has addressed this situation, but it occurs across Asia and beyond, even to the US and Europe. Gender selective abortions are supposedly illegal in most countries but are only sporadically enforced.

Without being too macabre it would be interesting to know the gender of the 2000 aborted foetuses found in the temple in Bangkok in 2010. It would not come as a great surprise if they were predominantly female.

Being female still represents a disproportionate challenge in many countries, in many places and cultures that challenge begins before birth.

Some background:

http://www.economist.com/node/15636231

http://thediplomat.com/2013/08/india-where-are-all-the-girls/

http://www.dw.de/gender-imbalance-in-asia-prompts-calls-for-intervention/a-16207644

[KarenBravo]

South America and Europe have the same religion, but, do they have the same culture? No.

There are hundreds of honour killings in Central and South America. Countries that are more strictly Christian than Europe.

[Ulysses G.]

Talking of being closer to home than you think.....

This brutal murder is truly shocking and a tragic situation.

However it could be seen as the overt and brutal face of something that is occurring on a far greater scale and spanning multiple cultures, religions and political systems.

That is probably of the the best examples of a Red Herring - a diversionary tactic - that I have ever seen. The topic is honor killings and they are usually committed by Muslims. One study found that, worldwide, 91 percent of perpetrators were Muslims. So much for those trying to claim that they are just as common in other cultures.

http://www.meforum.org/2646/worldwide-trends-in-honor-killings

Edited May 28, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[boomerangutang]

True: This afternoon, at my property in Chiang Rai, I watched a herd of goat (a neighbor owns them). there were some little kids (baby goats) among them, cute as could be. When the alpha ram moved among the kids, none of the kids were in the slightest bit alarmed, they all just frolicked and looked for green things to eat.

What a contrast to people, like those Pakistani Muslims, who harm their children. I can imagine some of the children in those families (particularly teen-aged daughters) living in constant fear, every time a mother or father comes within arm's length. Never knowing if/when a parent is going to throw a bowl of acid in their faces, or beat them to a pulp with sticks or fists, or, as so often happens in honor killings, sneak up behind, and stab/slash their necks with a knife.

Muslims should watch their goats more closely, and learn from them - how to be.

[neverdie]

True: This afternoon, at my property in Chiang Rai, I watched a herd of goat (a neighbor owns them). there were some little kids (baby goats) among them, cute as could be. When the alpha ram moved among the kids, none of the kids were in the slightest bit alarmed, they all just frolicked and looked for green things to eat.

What a contrast to people, like those Pakistani Muslims, who harm their children. I can imagine some of the children in those families (particularly teen-aged daughters) living in constant fear, every time a mother or father comes within arm's length. Never knowing if/when a parent is going to throw a bowl of acid in their faces, or beat them to a pulp with sticks or fists, or, as so often happens in honor killings, sneak up behind, and stab/slash their necks with a knife.

Muslims should watch their goats more closely, and learn from them - how to be.

Humans are evil sick creatures.

[momtaz]

There are some people, in every bad incident or such sad stories that happen in an Islamic majority country they accuse Islam by some ridiculous comments,

I do agree it's a retarded manner, very stupid tradition to do such, but for sure is not link to the religion of people,

here in Thailand : look at the local news here and see: yesterday was a case of a guy who raped his grandma, saying she's old can't pregnant, or the young kids rapist, or.... tons of unusual stories, we can't link it to the religion of the people, these bad individuals are only doing their devil mind jobs, nothing else.. this is what a logical brain can tell !

stay neutral and be objective .. ya that's what civilized ones always say tight?

[F430murci]

Talking of being closer to home than you think.....

This brutal murder is truly shocking and a tragic situation.

However it could be seen as the overt and brutal face of something that is occurring on a far greater scale and spanning multiple cultures, religions and political systems.

That is probably of the the best examples of a Red Herring - a diversionary tactic - that I have ever seen. The topic is honor killings and they are usually committed by Muslims. One study found that, worldwide, 91 percent of perpetrators were Muslims. So much for those trying to claim that they are just as common in other cultures.

http://www.meforum.org/2646/worldwide-trends-in-honor-killings

Yep, sickening attitude. Just because it is happening elsewhere it some how makes it okay to beat this poor innocent girl to death with sticks and bricks. This is the mentality from that part of the world that makes that part of the world engage and condone reprehensible behavior with apparent impunity. Sickening and twisted rationalization/minimization.

[ABCer]

True: This afternoon, at my property in Chiang Rai, I watched a herd of goat (a neighbor owns them). there were some little kids (baby goats) among them, cute as could be. When the alpha ram moved among the kids, none of the kids were in the slightest bit alarmed, they all just frolicked and looked for green things to eat.

What a contrast to people, like those Pakistani Muslims, who harm their children. I can imagine some of the children in those families (particularly teen-aged daughters) living in constant fear, every time a mother or father comes within arm's length. Never knowing if/when a parent is going to throw a bowl of acid in their faces, or beat them to a pulp with sticks or fists, or, as so often happens in honor killings, sneak up behind, and stab/slash their necks with a knife.

Muslims should watch their goats more closely, and learn from them - how to be.

Humans are evil sick creatures.

I protest! Humans are evil creatures. This is not a sickness.

[ABCer]

True: This afternoon, at my property in Chiang Rai, I watched a herd of goat (a neighbor owns them). there were some little kids (baby goats) among them, cute as could be. When the alpha ram moved among the kids, none of the kids were in the slightest bit alarmed, they all just frolicked and looked for green things to eat.

What a contrast to people, like those Pakistani Muslims, who harm their children. I can imagine some of the children in those families (particularly teen-aged daughters) living in constant fear, every time a mother or father comes within arm's length. Never knowing if/when a parent is going to throw a bowl of acid in their faces, or beat them to a pulp with sticks or fists, or, as so often happens in honor killings, sneak up behind, and stab/slash their necks with a knife.

Muslims should watch their goats more closely, and learn from them - how to be.

Humans are evil sick creatures.

I protest! Normal humans are evil creatures. It has nothing to do with sickness.

[monkeycountry]

There are some people, in every bad incident or such sad stories that happen in an Islamic majority country they accuse Islam by some ridiculous comments,

I do agree it's a retarded manner, very stupid tradition to do such, but for sure is not link to the religion of people,

here in Thailand : look at the local news here and see: yesterday was a case of a guy who raped his grandma, saying she's old can't pregnant, or the young kids rapist, or.... tons of unusual stories, we can't link it to the religion of the people, these bad individuals are only doing their devil mind jobs, nothing else.. this is what a logical brain can tell !

stay neutral and be objective .. ya that's what civilized ones always say tight?

True, there are sick individuals everywhere, but when it comes to sick muslims, more often than not we are not talking about individuals are we? How many people were involved in the case in the OP? And how many of the other muslims in the village they live in consider this a hineous crime? I think we both know that most of that village thinks the woman got what she deserved, and the neighbors will be having lunch or whatever with the perpetrators again tomorrow, telling them they did a good job defending the family honor or Allah or whatever.

When we sometimes see hidden footage from various stadiums/areas and public squares where a woman is dug down into the ground so only her head sticks up and stones are thrown at her til she dies, yes, it may be only a few people throwing the stones, but the footage shows hundreds or even thousands of people watching, and many cheering. In other words, they support it too, so not exactly just a sick individual is it?

If the guy you mention who raped his grandma had done so in the middle of a full stadium here in Thailand, how many people do you think would join him? How many would cheer him on? How many seconds do you think it would take for some Thai guys to stop him?

[englishoak]

It's nothing to do with religion. It's cultural.

So if these folk were devout Christians she still would have suffered the same fate..?...

As I recall, "Thou shalt not kill" is one of the biggies in the Christian religion.........

Why doesn't it happen in Turkey, Malaysia, Indonesia, Senegal etc.

It does.

[marcusd]

Barbarians!!!

Marcusd. Via tapatalk

[Steely Dan]

It's nothing to do with religion. It's cultural.

So if these folk were devout Christians she still would have suffered the same fate..?...

As I recall, "Thou shalt not kill" is one of the biggies in the Christian religion.........

Why doesn't it happen in Turkey, Malaysia, Indonesia, Senegal etc.

It does.

Indeed now Turkey easily outstrips Pakistan for honour killings, which have undergone a tenfold increase since Erdogan's pro religion government took over from their secular predecessors, but of course this is just coincidence and nothing to do with religion.

[KarenBravo]

No one has responded to the post about honour killings in Catholic Central and South America.

[AYJAYDEE]

It's nothing to do with religion. It's cultural.

So if these folk were devout Christians she still would have suffered the same fate..?...

As I recall, "Thou shalt not kill" is one of the biggies in the Christian religion.........

http://www.islamawareness.net/HonourKilling/outside.html

[Diddl]

I haven’t had time to read all the comments but I wanted to say a few words.

First of all I would like to say that this is just another propaganda tactic of the BBC to incite hatred of Pakistanis and Muslims – the US does it also. This is not a problem of Pakistanis or Muslims, it is a problem of parents, especially parents of Indian origin (Pakistan used to be India remember!), who want to exercise complete control at all times over their children. It is a pity that I did not keep the newspaper article but a similar situation happened in north India only a few months ago whereby a village of Hindus (including family), not Muslims! but Hindus, knifed a young girl publicly and then burnt her body publicly in the village because she had sex before marriage to an ‘unchosen’ fiancée. It was supposedly a dishonour to the family and the village and so they killed her.

This goes on all the time in India, I know because I have been going there on and off for the last 30 years and have even worked there over the last 5 years as a social worker (now I have left for the LOS, a paradise by comparison). Generally, children obey their parents out of fear, or perhaps not to dishonour them, and so they marry a chosen stranger that they do not even like in some cases. Other times, these killings and punishments go on because the children will not obey, and some have even committed suicide because they do not want to marry the allocated husband/spouse.

So, to summarise, I don’t think it is even a cultural problem, and it certainly has nothing to do with the Muslim religion as Hindus do this also, it is a ‘control problem’. Do you not remember how your parents in the West always wanted to control you, albeit perhaps more mildly, but nevertheless it is still control – do this, don’t do that, study hard, stop seeing so-and-so, eat your dinner, etc. This is a human problem, the demand to control our lives and others, especially when it gets out of hand.

My sympathies to all those that are persecuted and dominated by others, it is a terrible disease that needs to be eradicated!

[telldem]

Savages! No wonder Osama Binladen chose that country to hide in.

[JackJD]

In the final days of humanity's existence, we will finally come to realize what REAL EVIL is capable of. Any culture/religon that kills so many of their own innocent men, women and children - and classifies ALL non-members as "the enemy" - is TRULY EVIL.

[Pralaad]

And the scariest part is that the very same country has nukes. If they happy to kill family just think how they feel about the rest of the world and people in it

[sotsira]

No one has responded to the post about honour killings in Catholic Central and South America.

Maybe that is because no one has any information about them?

Were these honour killings performed by stoning in public as in the case of

the OP?

The fact that this barbaric murder took place outside the court in PUBLIC says a

lot about the people who conducted it, and also witnessed it.

This isn't just about honour killing, it is far beyond that, it is beyond civilised recognition.

[folium]

Talking of being closer to home than you think.....

This brutal murder is truly shocking and a tragic situation.

However it could be seen as the overt and brutal face of something that is occurring on a far greater scale and spanning multiple cultures, religions and political systems.

That is probably of the the best examples of a Red Herring - a diversionary tactic - that I have ever seen. The topic is honor killings and they are usually committed by Muslims. One study found that, worldwide, 91 percent of perpetrators were Muslims. So much for those trying to claim that they are just as common in other cultures.

http://www.meforum.org/2646/worldwide-trends-in-honor-killings

Sorry that you chose to miss the point I was making.

If you can find in my comments or the posts I link to any attempt to claim that " honour killings" are just as common in other cultures, please feel free to highlight that.

I am not sure why you bother to use the label " honour killing" when it is just a poor excuse for murder similar to the French cop out of "crime passionelle". Murder is murder...end of story. There is no cultural, religious or social excuse for the taking of innocent life in any circumstance.

Back to the point I was trying to make....honour murders are the brutal, shocking and vile public face of a particular attitude to females found in too many cultures/countries. The selective abortion of females is happening to the degree that gender imbalances are a growing problem in many countries. North of 100 million potential female babies are estimated to have been aborted across the world purely due to being an inconvenient gender.

Honour murders or selective abortions are symptomatic of cultural attitudes towards the role, place and value of females. It is not even a function of wealth as richer areas see higher levels of gender imbalance.

You may despise Muslims for committing honour murders in Pakistan or elsewhere. I despise the taking of any innocent life anywhere, by anyone. Being female is no excuse for ending a life.

[simple1]

The cultural issue of honor killings in places such as Pakistan and India, often by extremely brutal methods, is terrible. But can murders of females due to domestic violence be termed 'honor killings', in my opinion it's a 'yes'. As indicated by karenbravo this phenomenon is not exclusive to Islamic societies. In Colombia the number of females murders attributed to 'honour killings' runs at approx. 150 p.a.' Australia one a week, in Russia it's a huge problem and so on.

The OP is yet another opportunity for some to continue their vilification of Islam even when it’s pointed out that 'honor killing' is contrary to the guidance of the Koran. The Koran was the most advanced, for its time, supporter of women’s’ rights that has since been abused by men, contrary to the original Islamic teachings.

[Andre0720]

No one has responded to the post about honour killings in Catholic Central and South America.

Latin America... Hot blooded.. Passionate people... So not the same...

Latin America[edit]

Crimes of passion within Latin America have also been compared to honor killings.^[44] Similar to honor killings, crimes of passion often feature the murder of women by a husband, family member, or boyfriends and the crime is often condoned or sanctioned. In Peru, for example, 70 percent of the murders of women in one year were committed by a husband, boyfriend or lover, and most often jealousy or suspicions of infidelity are cited as the reasons for the murders.^[163]

[Ulysses G.]

Talking of being closer to home than you think.....

This brutal murder is truly shocking and a tragic situation.

However it could be seen as the overt and brutal face of something that is occurring on a far greater scale and spanning multiple cultures, religions and political systems.

That is probably of the the best examples of a Red Herring - a diversionary tactic - that I have ever seen. The topic is honor killings and they are usually committed by Muslims. One study found that, worldwide, 91 percent of perpetrators were Muslims. So much for those trying to claim that they are just as common in other cultures.

http://www.meforum.org/2646/worldwide-trends-in-honor-killings

Sorry that you chose to miss the point I was making.

If you can find in my comments or the posts I link to any attempt to claim that " honour killings" are just as common in other cultures, please feel free to highlight that.

I did not say that you claimed that "honor killings" are just as common in other cultures - other posters did that - I said that you were trying to change the subject completely, to divert from the topic of the thread:

"honor killings" - which are overwhelmingly committed by Muslims.

Edited May 29, 2014 by Ulysses G.