Wake Up! Are We Really So Stupid!

[bangkokrick]

I do think foreigner shouldnt be allowed to buuy and own land in thailand, but ones who are married to Thais should.

I take it you just got married Donz!

[terry57]

Sounds like the OP was having a bad Thailand day. I have those on occasion. I just go home and drink a beer, watch some Star Trek, and have a go at things the next morning.

Are some things better than they were in the 60's? Yes

Are some things worse than they were in the 60's? Yes

Today, I went with my wife to an orphanage down the road, and took them a 50 kg sack of rice. I figure that probably helped them out a great deal. I wish I could give more, but that was all i could afford today. I can't control government policy, land prices, social values, etc. The only thing I can do is help people in my limited way.

That orphanage always needs adults to read to children, or hold the young ones, when they are crying. My advice, opinion, etc. Spend less time complaining about why things suck, and try to help make them better.

If you do decide to do something positive, here is one suggestion.

Foundation for Children

http://www.ffc.or.th/htmleng/engpage1/page.htm

you have a very good idea there my friend.

the OP just complains about everything and not once does he speak in the positive.

one would think that since he has lived in this country for so many years, he would consider giving back to thailand by doing some voluntary work, as this might take his troubled mind off " how bad thailand really is."

must be an absolute nightmare for the wife to be listening to this everyday.

[oooooo]

a proper rant it was indeed. but i guess the wife has gone by now, rong hai, rong hai.............

[aussiestyle1983]

Many people have stated that they come to Thailand because of the 'Culture'. Do you know the definition of Culture? a particular society at a particular time and place; tastes in art and manners that are favored by a social group; knowledge and values shared by a society, etc. In Thailand, Thai Culture has several additional definitions today - GREED - CORRUPTION - THEIVERY among others! This is what has ruined Thailand (IMO).

It is interesting to read on the forum about people that are purchasing or contemplating the purchase of:

Condo's for 1,000,000 plus baht with many at prices of 4,000,000 baht and above! That's $27,000 - 106,000 plus US dollars.

Land for 500,000 baht (minimum) to well over 2,000,000 baht per rai! That's $13,000 to $54,000 plus US dollars per acre. And you cannot own the land!

House for 1,000,000 plus baht! Again, that's $27,000 plus US Dollars. Combined House and Land - $40,000 US Dollars (minimum)!! And again, you cannot own the land!

I have personally shopped for another house and prices have ranged from 800,000 to over 2,000,000. And this is for 'second hand' town houses and 'stand alone' houses that are so run down that I would not put 'farm animals' in them. To refurbish them to what most 'foreigners' would consider 'acceptable' will cost an additional 800,000 to 2,000,000 in materials and labor. Needless to say, I will not be purchasing another house 'in this lifetime'!

For those that are not familiar with a 'Rai' or 'Acre' of land - an 'Acre' is equivalent to 2.5 Rai of land.

And by the way, a Rai of land was selling for 250 baht in 1967 - today, the same 1 Rai of 'farm' land is going for 500,000 baht (that's a 2,000% increase!).

Are we really that stupid? Are the Thai women the only reason many 'foreigners' are here? It is difficult for me to comprehend how any 'foreigner' would want to come to Thailand today and spend the above kind of money in a country where the government continually make it difficult through 'rule changes', etc. for us to stay here. There are many places in our own country where we can purchase condo's, land, and houses - and OWN them - for the same money that the 'GREEDY' Thai people are asking. Luckily I was able to purchase a rai of land right after the crisis of 1997 and before the prices began to inflate. How does the price of land correlate to the cost-of-living in Thailand? Something is not right!

Ask yourself 'Why are land prices so high'? Who are the people that own 'most' of the land in Thailand? Is it a 'certain group of elite' that own all the land? Where did their money come from? Two guesses and they will both be correct - It will not be spelled out here!

Why can't the 'foreigner' own land in Thailand? Part of this has already been answered above. Why would a 'certain' group of elite's want the 'foreigner' to purchase and own land? It could be that 'they' want to purchase all the land they can at 'rock bottom' prices - which they have been doing since the 70s - and then sometime in the future change the law so they can sell the land to the 'stupid foreigner' at ridiculously inflated prices. Many people on this forum, and Thai people in general, will say that the 'foreigners' have driven prices up (condo's, houses', land). IMO the Thai elite have driven prices out of sight. In reading the Bangkok Post and The Nation newspapers it does not take much of an imagination to determine 'who owns' Thailand and why the 'net worth' of a 'select' group of people have mysteriously increased over the years! When I write about land prices, I am Not referring to Phuket, Bangkok, Samui, etc. - prices in those places are 'ridiculous'. I am referring to the 'country', the 'village', the 'small cities', etc.

For you people that want Thailand to remain the same - Thailand was 100% better in the 60s, 70s, and 80s than it is today (2006). The people were truly a great people, but greed, corruption, and thievery have taken over. The farmers in the country have seen how the Thai Bangkok elite's have taken advantage of them through the land sales and purchases. The 'farmers' or 'village people' are now trying to get the same kind of money for the land that is left. Who is going to buy the land? The average Thai citizen cannot afford these prices! In effect, they have been priced off their land and cannot afford to purchase a new homestead! The same can be said of condo's and house's.

And then there are many Thai's and foreigner alike stating that Thailand is now a democracy and they have a constitution. Thai people can vote for whomever they want. Do the people making these statements have a 'blindfold on' and really belief this? Just look at the governmental structure and the chain at the top! The military took over Thailand in the 1930s and will 'never' release their control. The same governmental structure of the 1930s are the people making the political decisions, rules, laws, etc. today - in whose favor! Certainly not for the general populace! If I am poor and have no money and someone offers me 200 or 500 baht to vote for somebody, I am going to take it. Voting is not 'free choice' - with or without the 'hand-out'. The 'village' people are 'Told' who they will vote for with 'intimidation'.

If all this is happening, Why don't the Thai people speak up? First, you must have an educated society. But isn't education mandatory? Yes, but you have to have a 'educated' and 'knowledgeable' teaching staff at 'all schools' throughout Thailand to impart knowledge to the students. Much of Thailand is either uneducated or undereducated which includes the teaching staff. That is exactly what the Thai government wants - regardless of what they say. Why are TV and radio stations 'controlled' by the government/military? And, 'freedom of press' - If you believe that I have some 'swamp land' I will sell you! An educated society leads to problems. Just look at the problems that the academics at the university level are causing today! If the entire population was 'educated' the current Thai government would never survive. Secondly, if one were to 'speak his or her mind', there is the possibility of an early end to life. Thai people have learned one lesson in school - do not speak your mind, obey authority figures at all times. This is a society of uniforms - from the lowest village 'head' to the very top of government - What is the message? - 'When I am in uniform, I am your superior - and don't you ever forget it'. And then you have a 'foreign' population coming to Thailand and migrating to the cities and villages and bringing with them their vast knowledge of 'world' affairs. This does not bode well for a government that is interested in 'controlling' the populace.

I realize that I am among the vocal minority when making statements as above. Having lived in Thailand in the 60s and 70s, and returning to Thailand in 1997, I have seen enormous change in Thailand - most of it BAD. Bangkok aside, Thailand, the country, is a great place to live. There are good people out in the villages - I cannot say that about the major cities of Thailand! I have had a great time and enjoy living in and among the 'village' people. The 'small villages' are where the 'real' people live.

I have read many comments and opinions from people who live outside of Thailand. So, for those people that live in other countries and only travel to Thailand for a short vacation, I say to them - Don't go writing about Thailand when you know nothing about Thailand. For those that have lived here for 1 or 2 years and write constantly about how great it is to live in Thailand, I say wait a little while longer and 'your opinion' may change.

And, for those that disagree with everything I have written, I say, you have every right to 'your own opinion' just as I have a right to 'my opinion'. In closing, 'my opinion' as expressed above is based on over 40 years of travel to, and living in Thailand.

Now you ask - Why am I here? Probably for the same reason many of us are here - Thai family. Would I leave if I had the chance? Yes. When you have 'embassies' that are not sympathetic in the issuance of visa's, then you have to weigh your choices - leave the family, or live with your family. It is not the Thai people that I have contempt for - it is the Thai bureaucratic crap and inefficiency, and their 'I am better than you attitude'.

I agree with most of what you said.

But why do you have to buy land or a house here? Just rent, the things are so ###### cheap to rent.

Why would you be stupid enough to buy land you will never own in the first place for similar prices to what you would pay back home?

I dont understand why you are complaining, no one put a gun to your head and made you buy land here.

Even if you are here just for the women, you still dont need to buy land, just move from place to place and rent.

I have worked out it is a lot cheaper to rent here and you have more freedom. The thai construction is piss poor as well, after you buy, you pay for repairs. Also if you buy, you are stuck with your neighbours and their village problems.

Anyway, I agree with you post, but no one makes you buy land here.................

Edited February 28, 2007 by aussiestyle1983

[Bruce1]

Don't buy - rent. Buy something in your home country instead.

Thailand isn't going to change because a few farangs are unhappy. Get used to it.

[trianglechoke]

the thread starter has been around and is correct, but so is the guy who stated 'why would you be stupid enough to buy land you will never own'

[LoveDaBlues]

If you pay 500k for a rai of land.....well then......yea you really are stupid! Plenty of land here for 100k per rai and less. Som na na.

Do you really think you can own land in the states? Stop paying the absurdly high property taxes and see how long you "own" the land.

There are fairly simple solutions here that allow you to live/enjoy your house/property for the rest of your life.

Search for threads about habitation rights, superficies, and usufruct.

I plan on building a house here and enjoying it for the rest of my life. Ten years from now there will still be whiners complaining about the same things.

[srisatch]

There must be some law of physics to explain why decent threads are degraded!

I have lived in LOS on and off for 30 years and I agree with much of the original post...BUT

I also think that there are MANY other countries which have been degraded in much the same way. Its not for nothing there are now plenty of articles in the 'Western' Press about the obscene behavior of private equity and hedge funds..!

I think that 'in spite of it all' there is still a residual sufficient equilibrium in LOS, though I am only too well aware it might change. Institutions in LOS are not strong.

What I really think, and that would relate to the historically developed Ruling Elite, The Chinese and Thai Plutocracy, The Bangkok Oligarchy cannot of course be said nor printed in LOS..but what a great job they have done on the PR and media front. Exactly. I cannot say it.

My daughters play a game at school at 8.00 am. They sit down and say: Thai people stand up. We sit down...and I promise no prompting. They already know uniforms and flag waving are no substitute for learning and discovery.

But all that that was part of starting the My Thailand thread: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=108596

Because I think one should not deny the choices we have made. The land and houses I have bought, I have bought for my wife and children..not for myself. I knew what I was doing. Whether they can lor want to live in them or even eventually sell them, we shall see. I doubt bthey can be so9ld..but they have a house here. Of course if all goes haywire they also have homes in the West. But they are Thai nand Luk Kreungs..they will have to deal with that! If you are single, I agree; don't try and invest here!!

Edited February 28, 2007 by endure
Edited for content

[tijnebijn]

Interesting things witten down here!!And Oh so true!Life in Thailand is just like that......

the only thing what really has too change is people married to thai people,they could make a limit for what they buy,but at least let them stay legally,no matter what income they have when they have a family,it is just common sense,and this is not whining like some may say,let people have a life!

[Bruce1]

Its not gonna change.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/Business/28Feb2007_biz36.php