Unprofessional and unskilled English Teacher's do you feel guilty?

[Soutpeel]

To teach a language, does 1 need to be a native speaker ?

If one wants to learn a language to a high degree of proficiency...then yes.

learning a language properly is a lot more involved than just learning grammatical structure, being able to spell and say the words correctly, every language has its nuances which only a native speaker of that language can teach.

[marko kok prong]

The other thing is i hope there not hiring scruffy,unwashed dreadlocked ,backpackers,who turn up half stoned,as this give a bad impression to the young students. I was a backpacker once before the onslaught start's but, i was always well presented,Safari suit,topee etc.

Pith helmet as well ? ..Kendal mint cake in hand and Darjeeling on the brew ?

Most certainly ,sir,and i always made sure my shoes where shined to such a level i could see the reflections of the clouds wandering across the heavens above,small baton under arm,just in case i had to make the natives jump to it,that kind of thing,yes,wonderful times.

[332]

I think that non-native speakers, such as the Scottish and Liverpudlians, should be given the chance to teach English too once they pass a IELTS test or whatever it's called.

[Swiss1960]

To teach a language, does 1 need to be a native speaker ?

If one wants to learn a language to a high degree of proficiency...then yes.

learning a language properly is a lot more involved than just learning grammatical structure, being able to spell and say the words correctly, every language has its nuances which only a native speaker of that language can teach.

Well, I would say that all the professional translators throughout the world - some of which speak and translate between 3-5 languages - would disagree with you

[benalibina]

To teach a language, does 1 need to be a native speaker ?

If one wants to learn a language to a high degree of proficiency...then yes.

learning a language properly is a lot more involved than just learning grammatical structure, being able to spell and say the words correctly, every language has its nuances which only a native speaker of that language can teach.

Nonsense. One learns the nuances of a language not in the classroom but by daily interacting/communicating with people from a said language or by watching television and not reading the subtitles constantly.

My guess is that you are a native english speaker, otherwise you would not make such a statement.

[Soutpeel]

English camps are a scam and a waste of money but you are focusing your anger on the wrong people. It is the Thai teachers/language school owners that are making tons of profits and pressuring parents to sign up their children. The farang teachers are tossed a few baht for showing up, but they really have nothing to do with it.

As for non Native teachers, they are normally at least able to communicate in English, even if they have an accent. Many Thai teachers speak little to no English and are completely unable to communicate, and they are the ones students are interacting with most of the time. I have in-laws that are English teachers in a rural area, it is very difficult to have even a basic conversation in English with them. They practically run from any family event I will be attending because they are so embarrassed at being unable to speak with me.

I am not a teacher, but in the Thai context from what I have observed, I cannot fathom why when people are being taught English, Thai is used to "teach" English...ie 90%+ of the class is instructed in Thai

At school I did French and German, I didn't learn very much... , but always remember the classes being conducted in the respective language, very little English spoken or written...have very fond memories of my German teacher marching around the class shouting "Schell Schell, Du bist ein Ringvieh"....

[marko kok prong]

English camps are a scam and a waste of money but you are focusing your anger on the wrong people. It is the Thai teachers/language school owners that are making tons of profits and pressuring parents to sign up their children. The farang teachers are tossed a few baht for showing up, but they really have nothing to do with it.

As for non Native teachers, they are normally at least able to communicate in English, even if they have an accent. Many Thai teachers speak little to no English and are completely unable to communicate, and they are the ones students are interacting with most of the time. I have in-laws that are English teachers in a rural area, it is very difficult to have even a basic conversation in English with them. They practically run from any family event I will be attending because they are so embarrassed at being unable to speak with me.

I am not a teacher, but in the Thai context from what I have observed, I cannot fathom why when people are being taught English, Thai is used to "teach" English...ie 90%+ of the class is instructed in Thai

At school I did French and German, I didn't learn very much... , but always remember the classes being conducted in the respective language, very little English spoken or written...have very fond memories of my German teacher marching around the class shouting "Schell Schell, Du bist ein Ringvieh"....

Followed by"ein volk,ein reich,ein deustchland"?

[chrisinth]

Chris from Belfast, Steve from Glasgow, Bill from Liverpool & Phil from Newcastle.

All native English speaking people, all with varying degrees and all eligible to take TEFL or whatever other foreign teaching courses there are.

Truth, they all find it difficult understanding each other let alone, on the basis of being a native speaker, teaching English to others.

Of course the above is hypothetical, but does demonstrate a side of native language speaking that shouldn't be ignored.

[Soutpeel]

To teach a language, does 1 need to be a native speaker ?

If one wants to learn a language to a high degree of proficiency...then yes.

learning a language properly is a lot more involved than just learning grammatical structure, being able to spell and say the words correctly, every language has its nuances which only a native speaker of that language can teach.

Nonsense. One learns the nuances of a language not in the classroom but by daily interacting/communicating with people from a said language or by watching television and not reading the subtitles constantly.

My guess is that you are a native english speaker, otherwise you would not make such a statement.

this is good example of what I am talking about....where anything I wrote did I mention "English" ?....I said "a language"

If I was learning another language seriously, my expectation would be that the person who is instructing me and the person I am paying to teach me is in fact a native speaker of said language.

[Soutpeel]

English camps are a scam and a waste of money but you are focusing your anger on the wrong people. It is the Thai teachers/language school owners that are making tons of profits and pressuring parents to sign up their children. The farang teachers are tossed a few baht for showing up, but they really have nothing to do with it.

As for non Native teachers, they are normally at least able to communicate in English, even if they have an accent. Many Thai teachers speak little to no English and are completely unable to communicate, and they are the ones students are interacting with most of the time. I have in-laws that are English teachers in a rural area, it is very difficult to have even a basic conversation in English with them. They practically run from any family event I will be attending because they are so embarrassed at being unable to speak with me.

I am not a teacher, but in the Thai context from what I have observed, I cannot fathom why when people are being taught English, Thai is used to "teach" English...ie 90%+ of the class is instructed in Thai

At school I did French and German, I didn't learn very much... , but always remember the classes being conducted in the respective language, very little English spoken or written...have very fond memories of my German teacher marching around the class shouting "Schell Schell, Du bist ein Ringvieh"....

Followed by"ein volk,ein reich,ein deustchland"?

I often wondered about the guy as he used to have us standing up singing "Horst Wessel" a lot, not sure what that was all about..

[benalibina]

To teach a language, does 1 need to be a native speaker ?

If one wants to learn a language to a high degree of proficiency...then yes.

learning a language properly is a lot more involved than just learning grammatical structure, being able to spell and say the words correctly, every language has its nuances which only a native speaker of that language can teach.

Nonsense. One learns the nuances of a language not in the classroom but by daily interacting/communicating with people from a said language or by watching television and not reading the subtitles constantly.

My guess is that you are a native english speaker, otherwise you would not make such a statement.

this is good example of what I am talking about....where anything I wrote did I mention "English" ?....I said "a language"

If I was learning another language seriously, my expectation would be that the person who is instructing me and the person I am paying to teach me is in fact a native speaker of said language.

I only referred to the fact that you are a native english speaker....to come up with a statement as you did before.

Next time.....read read and read...properly.

Not everybody has the means to learn a language and consequently be taught by a native speaker.

Learning a language at schools is to know and understand the basics of said language. Profiency comes ....well ...i stated that before.

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

i know the "teachers" were having a good moan the other year when some philopines were coming over to teach, for less money then the "english teachers" that were here

jake

?

[Soutpeel]

I only referred to the fact that you are a native english speaker....to come up with a statement as you did before.

Next time.....read read and read...properly.

Not everybody has the means to learn a language and consequently be taught by a native speaker.

Learning a language at schools is to know and understand the basics of said language. Profiency comes ....well ...i stated that before.

I disagree, over the last 30 odd years I have worked with many nationalities, including German's, Dutch, Italian who have learned English as second language from a young age in school and I would consider them fluent in both written and spoken English and even they make basic mistakes in English which a native speaker would not make (one hopes) in both spoken and written English and they would never be mistaken as a native speaker

I am sorry but IMHO, as I have said before if some is paying to be taught a language, I believe the person could be disadvantaged if they are not taught by a native speaker.

[krisb]

To teach a language, does 1 need to be a native speaker ?

No but,

I think you would strugggle to teach me Mandarin Chinese.

[benalibina]

I only referred to the fact that you are a native english speaker....to come up with a statement as you did before.

Next time.....read read and read...properly.

Not everybody has the means to learn a language and consequently be taught by a native speaker.

Learning a language at schools is to know and understand the basics of said language. Profiency comes ....well ...i stated that before.

I disagree, over the last 30 odd years I have worked with many nationalities, including German's, Dutch, Italian who have learned English as second language from a young age in school and I would consider them fluent in both written and spoken English and even they make basic mistakes in English which a native speaker would not make (one hopes) in both spoken and written English and they would never be mistaken as a native speaker

I am sorry but IMHO, as I have said before if some is paying to be taught a language, I believe the person could be disadvantaged if they are not taught by a native speaker.

Would you not agree that there is a difference between speaking a language, as a non native, and teaching it, again, as a non native speaker. That is why there are courses/studies to become a teacher.

You simply assume that anyone who can speak a language, as per your own example above, thinks that he/she is qualified to become a teacher in said language. No doubt though that there are people with a similar mindset.

[Swiss1960]

I only referred to the fact that you are a native english speaker....to come up with a statement as you did before.

Next time.....read read and read...properly.

Not everybody has the means to learn a language and consequently be taught by a native speaker.

Learning a language at schools is to know and understand the basics of said language. Profiency comes ....well ...i stated that before.

I disagree, over the last 30 odd years I have worked with many nationalities, including German's, Dutch, Italian who have learned English as second language from a young age in school and I would consider them fluent in both written and spoken English and even they make basic mistakes in English which a native speaker would not make (one hopes) in both spoken and written English and they would never be mistaken as a native speaker

I am sorry but IMHO, as I have said before if some is paying to be taught a language, I believe the person could be disadvantaged if they are not taught by a native speaker.

Well, I have to disagree with you from my personal point of view. 9y of English through schools, never had a native English speaking teacher. I learned the basics up to Business English degrees and learned to speak through my network of both private friends and business networks. Today - after 30y of speaking and writing in English during 70% of my working time - I can deal with all levels of English speaking people and I don't have the slightest German accent... mostly, English people take me for American, Americans for English and Australians for either of the two...

Not having native speaking teachers CAN be a disavantage (there I agree) but it does NOT have to be. I just spent the day in the office with three guys from the UK (British citizens), one I hardly understood (a Scott) and the one with the best Business English was actually a native Ukrainian citizen woh came to the UK when he was 10y old...

[Eliot Rosewater]

To teach a language, does 1 need to be a native ?

I think its a good start to be native at least! As just yesterday I was speaking to a friend of a friend that is Chinese's and he is a qualified Chinese teacher here in Bangkok, and he was joking to me that there are French and Spanish English Teacher here in Thailand with heavy accents. He taught it was hilarious!

Don't shot the messengers here please.....

Hmmmm..i come from The Netherlands and it is mandatory that kids start to learn 3 other languages when they start high school. English, french and german. Do you really think that we have thousands of natives from those countries teaching their respective languages ?

Yes in my Country at least my French Teacher was French and my German Teacher was German! makes sense!

You obviously not read my above comment properly. Mandatory....not optionally.

I guess you didn't pay too much attention in your English grammer class there eh?

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[robblok]

To teach a language, does 1 need to be a native ?

I think its a good start to be native at least! As just yesterday I was speaking to a friend of a friend that is Chinese's and he is a qualified Chinese teacher here in Bangkok, and he was joking to me that there are French and Spanish English Teacher here in Thailand with heavy accents. He taught it was hilarious!

Don't shot the messengers here please.....

Hmmmm..i come from The Netherlands and it is mandatory that kids start to learn 3 other languages when they start high school. English, french and german. Do you really think that we have thousands of natives from those countries teaching their respective languages ?

Of course not and the standard of English is good in the Netherlands. Its just some pride that makes people think NES are important. I would rather have a qualified teacher that is not NES opposed to a NES with no teaching skills. But all other things being the same a NES would be better.

[chuang]

To teach a language, does 1 need to be a native speaker ?

[chuang]

No just a cert from Khao san

[namdocmai]

The Thai don't use tv to learn english and that's a big miss. Even the english words i hear from Thai tv are pronounced wrong so how the heck can they ever learn it properly?

Last week i got email from a professional languagescool in BKK, they needed teachers and the mail i received 100% confirmed that. What a crappy english that recruiter used, i corrected his request in proper english and sent it back to him, that was lesson #1 i wrote him. He still has to reply me.

But for 30k baht a month and living in BKK i can only laugh about what they must be thinking. I guess they don't want the teachers to drive a car, dress well, live in a proper house and eat healthy because for 30k that sure is impossible.

Edited May 29, 2014 by namdocmai

[harryfrompattaya]

How do you know they had any white NES?

Hmm Good point! But I Taught all these English Camps had Falang Teacher's, My bad on that one.

But I have met a few non native English Teacher in Bangkok that told me they do these weekend English Camps.....

I tawt I taw a puddy tat... sorry, but as it is about English Language Teachers I had to have a dig... ..can you please tell me what exactly is done at these weekend camps? I only ask because my brother in law is now headmaster of the village school, before, among other things,he was also the English teacher, yet he still cannot put one sentence together.

Most of these English camps are as AFJ says, some Thai English teachers that speak little or no English.

Sometimes a Filipino or two that sort of speak English.

I also know a Russian English teacher, and a Dutch English teacher, neither of which you would want teaching Thais English.

(But they all work cheap!)

The camps usually aren't worthwhile educationally, but might be a bit of fun.

Education is a rip off in all countries it might be good the teachers and etc but not for students

Le Roy and I are proud we gave up school during the 3rd grade

To become rich

[sdanielmcev]

I think that non-native speakers, such as the Scottish and Liverpudlians, should be given the chance to teach English too once they pass a IELTS test or whatever it's called.

I disagree with you. You let the Scots in, then you may as well let in Kentuckians.

[namdocmai]

I just read that the USA cancelled a training for thai policemen in the USA. So you fly a group of Thai policemen to the US and start training them in english. Wished i could see that.

[Soutpeel]

I only referred to the fact that you are a native english speaker....to come up with a statement as you did before.

Next time.....read read and read...properly.

Not everybody has the means to learn a language and consequently be taught by a native speaker.

Learning a language at schools is to know and understand the basics of said language. Profiency comes ....well ...i stated that before.

I disagree, over the last 30 odd years I have worked with many nationalities, including German's, Dutch, Italian who have learned English as second language from a young age in school and I would consider them fluent in both written and spoken English and even they make basic mistakes in English which a native speaker would not make (one hopes) in both spoken and written English and they would never be mistaken as a native speaker

I am sorry but IMHO, as I have said before if some is paying to be taught a language, I believe the person could be disadvantaged if they are not taught by a native speaker.

Would you not agree that there is a difference between speaking a language, as a non native, and teaching it, again, as a non native speaker. That is why there are courses/studies to become a teacher.

You simply assume that anyone who can speak a language, as per your own example above, thinks that he/she is qualified to become a teacher in said language. No doubt though that there are people with a similar mindset.

Let me respond to this saying this, their are trained Thai teachers who are "teaching" English and can hardly speak the language, are they not doing a disservice to their students ?..one suspects they are

My wife paid for extra English lessons for her niece and I met the teacher who was teaching her and she couldn't even hold a basic conversation with me in English, but she went through university here to train as a teacher IN ENGLISH and my statement to my wife was that her niece would learn nothing...guess what ? she learned nothing, she learned more from me when she stayed with us during the school holidays and I am not a teacher

So here we have a "qualified" teacher who trained in the subject and is teaching a language they cant converse in with someone who is a native speaker, so what exactly is being taught ?....one hopes its not just English grammar, as this is a sure way for a person to lose interest in learning the language

BTW you are very wrong, I am not assuming anything, I am stating an opinion which is my own, which is If I was paying to learn a language properly, I would expect the person to be a native speaker of that language, to learn basic's of the language I wouldn't bother with a teacher/classes, I would buy the CD's to start with...

just because someone trains as teacher, this doesn't make them 100% proficient in the subject they are teaching, the old saying which goes along the lines of "those who can do, those that cant teach" springs to mind...

As I stated in another thread, I am a dumb Engineer who was thrown out of multiple English classes when at school and even I am shocked at the standard of English on TV by some posters on TV, not all, who profess to be "English teachers" and some are native English speakers to boot...

I am not attempting to get into a p*ss match with you...I am just giving my opinion that's all.

Edited May 29, 2014 by Soutpeel

[Soutpeel]

To teach a language, does 1 need to be a native ?

I think its a good start to be native at least! As just yesterday I was speaking to a friend of a friend that is Chinese's and he is a qualified Chinese teacher here in Bangkok, and he was joking to me that there are French and Spanish English Teacher here in Thailand with heavy accents. He taught it was hilarious!

Don't shot the messengers here please.....

Hmmmm..i come from The Netherlands and it is mandatory that kids start to learn 3 other languages when they start high school. English, french and german. Do you really think that we have thousands of natives from those countries teaching their respective languages ?

Of course not and the standard of English is good in the Netherlands. Its just some pride that makes people think NES are important. I would rather have a qualified teacher that is not NES opposed to a NES with no teaching skills. But all other things being the same a NES would be better.

Agreed...this has been the premise of all my comments, which assumes both parties are qualified teachers...

[benalibina]

I only referred to the fact that you are a native english speaker....to come up with a statement as you did before.

Next time.....read read and read...properly.

Not everybody has the means to learn a language and consequently be taught by a native speaker.

Learning a language at schools is to know and understand the basics of said language. Profiency comes ....well ...i stated that before.

I disagree, over the last 30 odd years I have worked with many nationalities, including German's, Dutch, Italian who have learned English as second language from a young age in school and I would consider them fluent in both written and spoken English and even they make basic mistakes in English which a native speaker would not make (one hopes) in both spoken and written English and they would never be mistaken as a native speaker

I am sorry but IMHO, as I have said before if some is paying to be taught a language, I believe the person could be disadvantaged if they are not taught by a native speaker.

Would you not agree that there is a difference between speaking a language, as a non native, and teaching it, again, as a non native speaker. That is why there are courses/studies to become a teacher.

You simply assume that anyone who can speak a language, as per your own example above, thinks that he/she is qualified to become a teacher in said language. No doubt though that there are people with a similar mindset.

Let me respond to this saying this, their are trained Thai teachers who are "teaching" English and can hardly speak the language, are they not doing a disservice to their students ?..one suspects they are

My wife paid for extra English lessons for her niece and I met the teacher who was teaching her and she couldn't even hold a basic conversation with me in English, but she went through university here to train as a teacher IN ENGLISH and my statement to my wife was that her niece would learn nothing...guess what ? she learned nothing, she learned more from me when she stayed with us during the school holidays and I am not a teacher

So here we have a "qualified" teacher who trained in the subject and is teaching a language they cant converse in with someone who is a native speaker, so what exactly is being taught ?....one hopes its not just English grammar, as this is a sure way for a person to lose interest in learning the language

BTW you are very wrong, I am not assuming anything, I am stating an opinion which is my own, which is If I was paying to learn a language properly, I would expect the person to be a native speaker of that language, to learn basic's of the language I wouldn't bother with a teacher/classes, I would buy the CD's to start with...

just because someone trains as teacher, this doesn't make them 100% proficient in the subject they are teaching, the old saying which goes along the lines of "those who can do, those that cant teach" springs to mind...

As I stated in another thread, I am a dumb Engineer who was thrown out of multiple English classes when at school and even I am shocked at the standard of English on TV by some posters on TV, not all, who profess to be "English teachers" and some are native English speakers to boot...

I am not attempting to get into a p*ss match with you...I am just giving my opinion that's all.

That is what a forum is about, to state and discuss opinions. I refrain from a pissing contest 2. Just went to the toilet.

[bermondburi]

I only referred to the fact that you are a native english speaker....to come up with a statement as you did before.

Next time.....read read and read...properly.

Not everybody has the means to learn a language and consequently be taught by a native speaker.

Learning a language at schools is to know and understand the basics of said language. Profiency comes ....well ...i stated that before.

I disagree, over the last 30 odd years I have worked with many nationalities, including German's, Dutch, Italian who have learned English as second language from a young age in school and I would consider them fluent in both written and spoken English and even they make basic mistakes in English which a native speaker would not make (one hopes) in both spoken and written English and they would never be mistaken as a native speaker

I am sorry but IMHO, as I have said before if some is paying to be taught a language, I believe the person could be disadvantaged if they are not taught by a native speaker.

Would you not agree that there is a difference between speaking a language, as a non native, and teaching it, again, as a non native speaker. That is why there are courses/studies to become a teacher.

You simply assume that anyone who can speak a language, as per your own example above, thinks that he/she is qualified to become a teacher in said language. No doubt though that there are people with a similar mindset.

Let me respond to this saying this, their are trained Thai teachers who are "teaching" English and can hardly speak the language, are they not doing a disservice to their students ?..one suspects they are

My wife paid for extra English lessons for her niece and I met the teacher who was teaching her and she couldn't even hold a basic conversation with me in English, but she went through university here to train as a teacher IN ENGLISH and my statement to my wife was that her niece would learn nothing...guess what ? she learned nothing, she learned more from me when she stayed with us during the school holidays and I am not a teacher

So here we have a "qualified" teacher who trained in the subject and is teaching a language they cant converse in with someone who is a native speaker, so what exactly is being taught ?....one hopes its not just English grammar, as this is a sure way for a person to lose interest in learning the language

BTW you are very wrong, I am not assuming anything, I am stating an opinion which is my own, which is If I was paying to learn a language properly, I would expect the person to be a native speaker of that language, to learn basic's of the language I wouldn't bother with a teacher/classes, I would buy the CD's to start with...

just because someone trains as teacher, this doesn't make them 100% proficient in the subject they are teaching, the old saying which goes along the lines of "those who can do, those that cant teach" springs to mind...

As I stated in another thread, I am a dumb Engineer who was thrown out of multiple English classes when at school and even I am shocked at the standard of English on TV by some posters on TV, not all, who profess to be "English teachers" and some are native English speakers to boot...

I am not attempting to get into a p*ss match with you...I am just giving my opinion that's all.

shocking!

[kaorop]

stop feeding the adsens data traffic increasing trolls employees!

[chrisinth]

One thing I would say is that you can't teach English in Thai or Thai in English........................

However, a little knowledge of the student's language is good for explanation only.

No, I'm not a teacher, it just makes a lot of sense.