"Saving face"

[AYJAYDEE]

There are no boundaries for you to keep writing these nonsensical defensive posts apparantly. Time for you maybe to understand the 2 sides of the coin instead of attacking people who have had different experiences than you or who are maybe more openminded.

lol

To add....the people who see the consequences of FACE ....ill bet you that they never ever in their life wished to have encountered it. Like you.

i am well aware of face and its ramifications pal. adapting to it is part of being in thailand. that many can't does not surprise me.

[NoThainess4U]

it is easy to adapt, as they are childlike.

that is how they cope

is best to not care and be cautious and vigilant and let them lie to eachother al they want,

because they do, and they will

[AYJAYDEE]

it is easy to adapt, as they are childlike.

that is how they cope

is best to not care and be cautious and vigilant and let them lie to eachother al they want,

because they do, and they will

different from us= childlike!!?? lol

[Thai at Heart]

I lived very happily for 18 years. Let's say, being let down was the clincher. I had few if any real problems and it was a combination of many factors as to why I left.

I was doing business, bringing up 2 very happy kids and living very nicely think you. I did not fit the standard profile of most falangs. I came to Thailand with an MNC at 22 years old.

Face is not a good thing for Thailand I believe. I am not going to change it and I don't expect Thais to change because I think its a problem. I am just pointing out to people who want to listen that it can become an issue even with people you have known for a very very long time.

I don't understand why you think it's a problem to realise that face can be an issue. Its not my creation that Thais have face, its their concept.

If you don't think its important to understand how strong the pull to tell a white lie to hide a serious truth can be in thailand, that's up to you.

Stay ignorant of the culture. That's your choice.

with equal experience to you and no problems, i obviously have a better grasp than you. your problem is particular to your relationship. period

A better grasp.

I got let down in a very typically Thai way by a very good friend. That is just pure character as to whether a person let's you down or not.

What was not unique was the complete desire to save face. That was completely true to form for a stereotypically Thai reaction and considering this person was overseas educated, supposedly possessing of a certain education it was quite a shock.

At the end, thainess overwhelmed their morals and obligation to friends. I would be a little careful to believe that all your friends are better and would never choose thainess over your friendship.

My experience would suggest it can happen to anyone. The clincher was "but he's a falang, its OK". And that after 12 years of quite close family friendship. Morals are rather universal and I make allowances for culture.

But wrong can never be right no matter how u dress it up.

[AYJAYDEE]

I lived very happily for 18 years. Let's say, being let down was the clincher. I had few if any real problems and it was a combination of many factors as to why I left.

I was doing business, bringing up 2 very happy kids and living very nicely think you. I did not fit the standard profile of most falangs. I came to Thailand with an MNC at 22 years old.

Face is not a good thing for Thailand I believe. I am not going to change it and I don't expect Thais to change because I think its a problem. I am just pointing out to people who want to listen that it can become an issue even with people you have known for a very very long time.

I don't understand why you think it's a problem to realise that face can be an issue. Its not my creation that Thais have face, its their concept.

If you don't think its important to understand how strong the pull to tell a white lie to hide a serious truth can be in thailand, that's up to you.

Stay ignorant of the culture. That's your choice.

with equal experience to you and no problems, i obviously have a better grasp than you. your problem is particular to your relationship. period

A better grasp.

I got let down in a very typically Thai way by a very good friend. That is just pure character as to whether a person let's you down or not.

What was not unique was the complete desire to save face. That was completely true to form for a stereotypically Thai reaction and considering this person was overseas educated, supposedly possessing of a certain education it was quite a shock.

At the end, thainess overwhelmed their morals and obligation to friends. I would be a little careful to believe that all your friends are better and would never choose thainess over your friendship.

My experience would suggest it can happen to anyone. The clincher was "but he's a falang, its OK". And that after 12 years of quite close family friendship. Morals are rather universal and I make allowances for culture.

But wrong can never be right no matter how u dress it up.

nonsense. i wasnt thainess overwhelming morality, it was a lack of morality that caused you to be let down. if he tried to save face later, that does not affect what is already done. choose better friends

[benalibina]

I lived very happily for 18 years. Let's say, being let down was the clincher. I had few if any real problems and it was a combination of many factors as to why I left.

I was doing business, bringing up 2 very happy kids and living very nicely think you. I did not fit the standard profile of most falangs. I came to Thailand with an MNC at 22 years old.

Face is not a good thing for Thailand I believe. I am not going to change it and I don't expect Thais to change because I think its a problem. I am just pointing out to people who want to listen that it can become an issue even with people you have known for a very very long time.

I don't understand why you think it's a problem to realise that face can be an issue. Its not my creation that Thais have face, its their concept.

If you don't think its important to understand how strong the pull to tell a white lie to hide a serious truth can be in thailand, that's up to you.

Stay ignorant of the culture. That's your choice.

with equal experience to you and no problems, i obviously have a better grasp than you. your problem is particular to your relationship. period

A better grasp.

I got let down in a very typically Thai way by a very good friend. That is just pure character as to whether a person let's you down or not.

What was not unique was the complete desire to save face. That was completely true to form for a stereotypically Thai reaction and considering this person was overseas educated, supposedly possessing of a certain education it was quite a shock.

At the end, thainess overwhelmed their morals and obligation to friends. I would be a little careful to believe that all your friends are better and would never choose thainess over your friendship.

My experience would suggest it can happen to anyone. The clincher was "but he's a falang, its OK". And that after 12 years of quite close family friendship. Morals are rather universal and I make allowances for culture.

But wrong can never be right no matter how u dress it up.

nonsense. i wasnt thainess overwhelming morality, it was a lack of morality that caused you to be let down. if he tried to save face later, that does not affect what is already done. choose better friends

You hit the nail on the head, without you realising it. How to move on after lack of morality has been uncovered. Save face ??

[AYJAYDEE]

You hit the nail on the head, without you realising it. How to move on after lack of morality has been uncovered. Save face ??

without realizing it!! lol

[Foxter]

Some Posting here have mentioned that Thais will have no consequences regarding face.

You have to remember most Thai's are Buddhists , so there are consequences , karma , Buddhists believe that they will pay for their actions , for the good or bad, by karma .

Remember you are thinking as a non Thai or Buddhist

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Edited June 7, 2014 by Foxter

[NoThainess4U]

do not underestimate Thainess

Thainess will overwhelm morality when a Thai vs Falange ordeal ensues

It is akin to this:

A persons natural accent can be dormant for decades,

but, put me on the telephone with someone in Brooklyn,

and you won't recognize my voice as I left there 40 years ago,

but, if it is in my ear, it comes out in my voice tone and inflection

people around me look at me in surprise, but it is my natural voice tone apparently

same with Thainess

it will rise up when called upon

they are taught it is ok,

not unlike Muslims who are taught by Mohammed that they can lie, sign false contracts and reneg any time, if it is with anyo e deemed an infidel

deny this at your own risk

[AYJAYDEE]

do not underestimate Thainess

Thainess will overwhelm morality when a Thai vs Falange ordeal ensues

It is akin to this:

A persons natural accent can be dormant for decades,

but, put me on the telephone with someone in Brooklyn,

and you won't recognize my voice as I left there 40 years ago,

but, if it is in my ear, it comes out in my voice tone and inflection

people around me look at me in surprise, but it is my natural voice tone apparently

same with Thainess

it will rise up when called upon

they are taught it is ok,

not unlike Muslims who are taught by Mohammed that they can lie, sign false contracts and reneg any time, if it is with anyo e deemed an infidel

deny this at your own risk

so youre trying to peddle the idea that thais are inherently immoral? lol

[Thai at Heart]

I lived very happily for 18 years. Let's say, being let down was the clincher. I had few if any real problems and it was a combination of many factors as to why I left.

I was doing business, bringing up 2 very happy kids and living very nicely think you. I did not fit the standard profile of most falangs. I came to Thailand with an MNC at 22 years old.

Face is not a good thing for Thailand I believe. I am not going to change it and I don't expect Thais to change because I think its a problem. I am just pointing out to people who want to listen that it can become an issue even with people you have known for a very very long time.

I don't understand why you think it's a problem to realise that face can be an issue. Its not my creation that Thais have face, its their concept.

If you don't think its important to understand how strong the pull to tell a white lie to hide a serious truth can be in thailand, that's up to you.

Stay ignorant of the culture. That's your choice.

with equal experience to you and no problems, i obviously have a better grasp than you. your problem is particular to your relationship. period

A better grasp.

I got let down in a very typically Thai way by a very good friend. That is just pure character as to whether a person let's you down or not.

What was not unique was the complete desire to save face. That was completely true to form for a stereotypically Thai reaction and considering this person was overseas educated, supposedly possessing of a certain education it was quite a shock.

At the end, thainess overwhelmed their morals and obligation to friends. I would be a little careful to believe that all your friends are better and would never choose thainess over your friendship.

My experience would suggest it can happen to anyone. The clincher was "but he's a falang, its OK". And that after 12 years of quite close family friendship. Morals are rather universal and I make allowances for culture.

But wrong can never be right no matter how u dress it up.

nonsense. i wasnt thainess overwhelming morality, it was a lack of morality that caused you to be let down. if he tried to save face later, that does not affect what is already done. choose better friends

The excuse is saving face. Call that thainess, call that what you will, but most westerners would have reacted in the opposite manner.

Under pressure someone reverted to their cultural type. That's all. I don't consider it a massive failing because in their cultural view, it was acceptable. Face outweighed admitting their fault.

A grown person making a completely irrational white lie hoping they would get away with it, even when the odds of getting away with it were 1%. That is face, pure and simple. In 18 years I have never seen a Thai admit prior to getting caught their wrongdoing.

Its sometimes like dealing with 7 year olds who haven't done their homework. Or are you arguing that face as an issue doesn't exist in thailand.

This also manifests itself in saying "but so and so does it too, so its OK". Ah yes, the 6 year old school yard defence.

[Thai at Heart]

do not underestimate Thainess

Thainess will overwhelm morality when a Thai vs Falange ordeal ensues

It is akin to this:

A persons natural accent can be dormant for decades,

but, put me on the telephone with someone in Brooklyn,

and you won't recognize my voice as I left there 40 years ago,

but, if it is in my ear, it comes out in my voice tone and inflection

people around me look at me in surprise, but it is my natural voice tone apparently

same with Thainess

it will rise up when called upon

they are taught it is ok,

not unlike Muslims who are taught by Mohammed that they can lie, sign false contracts and reneg any time, if it is with anyo e deemed an infidel

deny this at your own risk

so youre trying to peddle the idea that thais are inherently immoral? lol

Its not that simple. It is that the moral code in Thailand vis a vis honesty, morality, friends, acquanintances and family is different from the west.

Their moral judgement is different, and its wise to realise, learn, and acknowledge that fact.

[AYJAYDEE]

The excuse is saving face. Call that thainess, call that what you will, but most westerners would have reacted in the opposite manner.

Under pressure someone reverted to their cultural type. That's all. I don't consider it a massive failing because in their cultural view, it was acceptable. Face outweighed admitting their fault.

A grown person making a completely irrational white lie hoping they would get away with it, even when the odds of getting away with it were 1%. That is face, pure and simple. In 18 years I have never seen a Thai admit prior to getting caught their wrongdoing.

Its sometimes like dealing with 7 year olds who haven't done their homework. Or are you arguing that face as an issue doesn't exist in thailand.

This also manifests itself in saying "but so and so does it too, so its OK". Ah yes, the 6 year old school yard defence.

the fact is its only a failing in your chauvinistic view. of course it exists and the fact farangs have trouble with it says more about farangs than thais.

[NoThainess4U]

do not underestimate Thainess

Thainess will overwhelm morality when a Thai vs Falange ordeal ensues

It is akin to this:

A persons natural accent can be dormant for decades,

but, put me on the telephone with someone in Brooklyn,

and you won't recognize my voice as I left there 40 years ago,

but, if it is in my ear, it comes out in my voice tone and inflection

people around me look at me in surprise, but it is my natural voice tone apparently

same with Thainess

it will rise up when called upon

they are taught it is ok,

not unlike Muslims who are taught by Mohammed that they can lie, sign false contracts and reneg any time, if it is with anyo e deemed an infidel

deny this at your own risk

so youre trying to peddle the idea that thais are inherently immoral? lol

you tell me?

how many western mothers sell their daughters to pimps in Bangkok, and then spend the money they receive every week from their daughters, who are too "morally" bound to work off the contract?

then the pimps find ways to keep them after, ie., force them into more debt to work it off with their bodies,

a very Thai

ideal

[AYJAYDEE]

do not underestimate Thainess

Thainess will overwhelm morality when a Thai vs Falange ordeal ensues

It is akin to this:

A persons natural accent can be dormant for decades,

but, put me on the telephone with someone in Brooklyn,

and you won't recognize my voice as I left there 40 years ago,

but, if it is in my ear, it comes out in my voice tone and inflection

people around me look at me in surprise, but it is my natural voice tone apparently

same with Thainess

it will rise up when called upon

they are taught it is ok,

not unlike Muslims who are taught by Mohammed that they can lie, sign false contracts and reneg any time, if it is with anyo e deemed an infidel

deny this at your own risk

so youre trying to peddle the idea that thais are inherently immoral? lol

you tell me?

how many western mothers sell their daughters to pimps in Bangkok, and then spend the money they receive every week from their daughters, who are too "morally" bound to work off the contract?

then the pimps find ways to keep them after, ie., force them into more debt to work it off with their bodies,

a very Thai

ideal

lol, if you think that is particular to thailand (and a national trait) I got a bridge you might be interested in!. how disheartening it must be for folks like you stuck in a milieu you despise!!

[Thai at Heart]

The excuse is saving face. Call that thainess, call that what you will, but most westerners would have reacted in the opposite manner.

Under pressure someone reverted to their cultural type. That's all. I don't consider it a massive failing because in their cultural view, it was acceptable. Face outweighed admitting their fault.

A grown person making a completely irrational white lie hoping they would get away with it, even when the odds of getting away with it were 1%. That is face, pure and simple. In 18 years I have never seen a Thai admit prior to getting caught their wrongdoing.

Its sometimes like dealing with 7 year olds who haven't done their homework. Or are you arguing that face as an issue doesn't exist in thailand.

This also manifests itself in saying "but so and so does it too, so its OK". Ah yes, the 6 year old school yard defence.

the fact is its only a failing in your chauvinistic view. of course it exists and the fact farangs have trouble with it says more about farangs than thais.

Well, truth doesn't suddenly become an untruth just because you cross a border. If you think lying is a good cultural trait, up to you. I obviously tend to have slightly higher chauvinistic standards.

I walked away from it, saddened but with my face apparently intact. Lies are lies and it doesn't matter how they are dressed. It is not chauvinism to consider lying to be a poor trait. That is universal and has nothing to do with I or any other feeling better about it.

Lying to save your own face is a very poor trait in my and an awful lot of others opinions. That is a largely universal opinion.

Edited June 7, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[AYJAYDEE]

The excuse is saving face. Call that thainess, call that what you will, but most westerners would have reacted in the opposite manner.

Under pressure someone reverted to their cultural type. That's all. I don't consider it a massive failing because in their cultural view, it was acceptable. Face outweighed admitting their fault.

A grown person making a completely irrational white lie hoping they would get away with it, even when the odds of getting away with it were 1%. That is face, pure and simple. In 18 years I have never seen a Thai admit prior to getting caught their wrongdoing.

Its sometimes like dealing with 7 year olds who haven't done their homework. Or are you arguing that face as an issue doesn't exist in thailand.

This also manifests itself in saying "but so and so does it too, so its OK". Ah yes, the 6 year old school yard defence.

the fact is its only a failing in your chauvinistic view. of course it exists and the fact farangs have trouble with it says more about farangs than thais.

Well, truth doesn't suddenly become an untruth just because you cross a border. If you think lying is a good cultural trait, up to you. I obviously tend to have slightly higher chauvinistic standards.

you are not equipped to define truth. I'm sure glad that I, unlike you and so many here, am not immersed in a culture I despise. what a miserable way to live.

[NoThainess4U]

The excuse is saving face. Call that thainess, call that what you will, but most westerners would have reacted in the opposite manner.

Under pressure someone reverted to their cultural type. That's all. I don't consider it a massive failing because in their cultural view, it was acceptable. Face outweighed admitting their fault.

A grown person making a completely irrational white lie hoping they would get away with it, even when the odds of getting away with it were 1%. That is face, pure and simple. In 18 years I have never seen a Thai admit prior to getting caught their wrongdoing.

Its sometimes like dealing with 7 year olds who haven't done their homework. Or are you arguing that face as an issue doesn't exist in thailand.

This also manifests itself in saying "but so and so does it too, so its OK". Ah yes, the 6 year old school yard defence.

the fact is its only a failing in your chauvinistic view. of course it exists and the fact farangs have trouble with it says more about farangs than thais.

Well, truth doesn't suddenly become an untruth just because you cross a border. If you think lying is a good cultural trait, up to you. I obviously tend to have slightly higher chauvinistic standards.

you are not equipped to define truth. I'm sure glad that I, unlike you and so many here, am not immersed in a culture I despise. what a miserable way to live.

despise?

you of course are referring to the Thai men right?

who despise the women of their own country, so much they create whores from college girls?

ok, you win,

I dont despise them,

i do feel sorry for them though

[Thai at Heart]

The excuse is saving face. Call that thainess, call that what you will, but most westerners would have reacted in the opposite manner.

Under pressure someone reverted to their cultural type. That's all. I don't consider it a massive failing because in their cultural view, it was acceptable. Face outweighed admitting their fault.

A grown person making a completely irrational white lie hoping they would get away with it, even when the odds of getting away with it were 1%. That is face, pure and simple. In 18 years I have never seen a Thai admit prior to getting caught their wrongdoing.

Its sometimes like dealing with 7 year olds who haven't done their homework. Or are you arguing that face as an issue doesn't exist in thailand.

This also manifests itself in saying "but so and so does it too, so its OK". Ah yes, the 6 year old school yard defence.

the fact is its only a failing in your chauvinistic view. of course it exists and the fact farangs have trouble with it says more about farangs than thais.

Well, truth doesn't suddenly become an untruth just because you cross a border. If you think lying is a good cultural trait, up to you. I obviously tend to have slightly higher chauvinistic standards.

you are not equipped to define truth. I'm sure glad that I, unlike you and so many here, am not immersed in a culture I despise. what a miserable way to live.

Who said I despised Thai culture. That is one aspect of it I didn't like. There were many other aspects I love about Thai culture.

Joining a culture doesn't mean one has to park ones brain, morals and opinions at immigration.

When you ask if someone did something, and they initially fib about it, only to admit their fib because they have been caught beyond all doubt, despite denying it for a long period, that represents truth I think. When someone steals and initially blames someone else, but eventually admits it, I think that makes me 100% qualified to define the bloody truth.

Edited June 7, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[NoThainess4U]

do not underestimate Thainess

Thainess will overwhelm morality when a Thai vs Falange ordeal ensues

It is akin to this:

A persons natural accent can be dormant for decades,

but, put me on the telephone with someone in Brooklyn,

and you won't recognize my voice as I left there 40 years ago,

but, if it is in my ear, it comes out in my voice tone and inflection

people around me look at me in surprise, but it is my natural voice tone apparently

same with Thainess

it will rise up when called upon

they are taught it is ok,

not unlike Muslims who are taught by Mohammed that they can lie, sign false contracts and reneg any time, if it is with anyo e deemed an infidel

deny this at your own risk

so youre trying to peddle the idea that thais are inherently immoral? lol

you tell me?

how many western mothers sell their daughters to pimps in Bangkok, and then spend the money they receive every week from their daughters, who are too "morally" bound to work off the contract?

then the pimps find ways to keep them after, ie., force them into more debt to work it off with their bodies,

a very Thai

ideal

lol, if you think that is particular to thailand (and a national trait) I got a bridge you might be interested in!. how disheartening it must be for folks like you stuck in a milieu you despise!!

I am American and have been in many places in the world

Thailand is unique, in their embrace of dishonesty, prostitution, and enslavement of women, migrant workers, and anyone without white skin,

they are no different the the slave masters of the US south

the only thing missing, is the whipping post, rather they whip them by making them slaves to their families

[AYJAYDEE]

despise?

you of course are referring to the Thai men right?

who despise the women of their own country, so much they create whores from college girls?

ok, you win,

I dont despise them,

i do feel sorry for them though

so far you've expressed your disdain for thai women, thai mothers and thai men. dont seem to be too many left. and you dont despise the culture?? lol yeah riiiiiiiight

[NoThainess4U]

I despise no one except my ex wife' army of lawyers, who succeeded only in making ure she remains penniles

she is brazilian, her father English, I do despise some of them, but mostly for their cowardice in 1947

regarding the Thai's.

they have a hopeless existence

I neither despise them, nor admire them, as, they cannot possibly stimulate either

[AYJAYDEE]

I despise no one except my ex wife' army of lawyers, who succeeded only in making ure she remains penniles

she is brazilian, her father English, I do despise some of them, but mostly for their cowardice in 1947

regarding the Thai's.

they have a hopeless existence

I neither despise them, nor admire them, as, they cannot possibly stimulate either

A HOPELESS EXISTENCE!! THERE WE GO! It's finally out in the open,you have nothing but contempt for thais. how sad it must be to exist in such a situation!

[AYJAYDEE]

I am American and have been in many places in the world

Thailand is unique, in their embrace of dishonesty, prostitution, and enslavement of women, migrant workers, and anyone without white skin,

they are no different the the slave masters of the US south

the only thing missing, is the whipping post, rather they whip them by making them slaves to their families

An american?? it begins to make sense

[ppmacready]

I despise no one except my ex wife' army of lawyers, who succeeded only in making ure she remains penniles

she is brazilian, her father English, I do despise some of them, but mostly for their cowardice in 1947

regarding the Thai's.

they have a hopeless existence

I neither despise them, nor admire them, as, they cannot possibly stimulate either

Gentlemen, gentlemen.

Despise?

Admire?

I embrace 'their' culture.

I live here and take advantage of their culture.

Renting out their beautiful young daughters for beer money.

The only thing Thailand has, thats worth anything in the 'free world''!

And their practically giving it away for MUCH less than a night out for 2 in London.

What a delightful mind set these backward people have.

They feel they have us at a disadvantage.

Shhhhhhh, please don't tell them or try to change them!.

[AYJAYDEE]

I despise no one except my ex wife' army of lawyers, who succeeded only in making ure she remains penniles

she is brazilian, her father English, I do despise some of them, but mostly for their cowardice in 1947

regarding the Thai's.

they have a hopeless existence

I neither despise them, nor admire them, as, they cannot possibly stimulate either

Gentlemen, gentlemen.

Despise?

Admire?

I embrace 'their' culture.

I live here and take advantage of their culture.

Renting out their beautiful young daughters for beer money.

The only thing Thailand has, thats worth anything in the 'free world''!

And their practically giving it away for MUCH less than a night out for 2 in London.

What a delightful mind set these backward people have.

They feel they have us at a disadvantage.

Shhhhhhh, please don't tell them or try to change them!.

free world??!! lol

[ppmacready]

I despise no one except my ex wife' army of lawyers, who succeeded only in making ure she remains penniles

she is brazilian, her father English, I do despise some of them, but mostly for their cowardice in 1947

regarding the Thai's.

they have a hopeless existence

I neither despise them, nor admire them, as, they cannot possibly stimulate either

Gentlemen, gentlemen.

Despise?

Admire?

I embrace 'their' culture.

I live here and take advantage of their culture.

Renting out their beautiful young daughters for beer money.

The only thing Thailand has, thats worth anything in the 'free world''!

And their practically giving it away for MUCH less than a night out for 2 in London.

What a delightful mind set these backward people have.

They feel they have us at a disadvantage.

Shhhhhhh, please don't tell them or try to change them!.

free world??!! lol

Ok its not a perfect world.

But at least 'we' can share our political views and vote.

[AYJAYDEE]

I despise no one except my ex wife' army of lawyers, who succeeded only in making ure she remains penniles

she is brazilian, her father English, I do despise some of them, but mostly for their cowardice in 1947

regarding the Thai's.

they have a hopeless existence

I neither despise them, nor admire them, as, they cannot possibly stimulate either

Gentlemen, gentlemen.

Despise?

Admire?

I embrace 'their' culture.

I live here and take advantage of their culture.

Renting out their beautiful young daughters for beer money.

The only thing Thailand has, thats worth anything in the 'free world''!

And their practically giving it away for MUCH less than a night out for 2 in London.

What a delightful mind set these backward people have.

They feel they have us at a disadvantage.

Shhhhhhh, please don't tell them or try to change them!.

free world??!! lol

Ok its not a perfect world.

But at least 'we' can share our political views and vote.

big deal. a vote in a one party corporate state bought and paid for by lobbyists means nothing

[timewilltell]

Another example.........

Intrrviewing for Thai staff the offer is made to the Thai and we agree everything including start date and time.

of the 5 staff given the job 2 send me s text saying they have changed there mind. 2 just dont show up.

Losing face? or simple courtesy?

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Called a better job off elsewhere....?

Perhaps they said yes to you as they didn't want say no.

Your last sentence is exactly the point. They say yes, when the answer should be something else. It avoids THEM feeling uncomfortable in the tiniest degree yet causes great inconvenience to others. And this goes through every aspect of life in Thailand. So in reality it is an entirely selfish custom and a destructive one.

Of course the same thing happens everywhere in the world, which is the argument rolled out whenever we discuss national cultural traits, but the point is the degree of use - and societal acceptance. The face problem seems to me to be a retarding force to development both in a personal and societal sense and is positively unhelpful to all except self.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[timewilltell]

do not underestimate Thainess

Thainess will overwhelm morality when a Thai vs Falange ordeal ensues

It is akin to this:

A persons natural accent can be dormant for decades,

but, put me on the telephone with someone in Brooklyn,

and you won't recognize my voice as I left there 40 years ago,

but, if it is in my ear, it comes out in my voice tone and inflection

people around me look at me in surprise, but it is my natural voice tone apparently

same with Thainess

it will rise up when called upon

they are taught it is ok,

not unlike Muslims who are taught by Mohammed that they can lie, sign false contracts and reneg any time, if it is with anyo e deemed an infidel

deny this at your own risk

so youre trying to peddle the idea that thais are inherently immoral? lol

I think he is trying to peddle the idea that Thainess is a way to get what you want as an excuse to override the moral way - I think I agree with that statement. Other nationalities use different forms of this to a greater or lesser degree - some nationalities are culturally more generally honest and straightforward and some are culturally less so.

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