"Saving face"

[timewilltell]

I am American and have been in many places in the world

Thailand is unique, in their embrace of dishonesty, prostitution, and enslavement of women, migrant workers, and anyone without white skin,

they are no different the the slave masters of the US south

the only thing missing, is the whipping post, rather they whip them by making them slaves to their families

An american?? it begins to make sense

I am not American and I agree with NoThainess4U - at least his second sentence, though maybe not unique in the world for just those reasons. Having said that I am not so sure prostitution is the evil it is made out to be - as long as it is a choice and not a result of Hobson's Choice.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

Edited June 8, 2014 by timewilltell

[AYJAYDEE]

do not underestimate Thainess

Thainess will overwhelm morality when a Thai vs Falange ordeal ensues

It is akin to this:

A persons natural accent can be dormant for decades,

but, put me on the telephone with someone in Brooklyn,

and you won't recognize my voice as I left there 40 years ago,

but, if it is in my ear, it comes out in my voice tone and inflection

people around me look at me in surprise, but it is my natural voice tone apparently

same with Thainess

it will rise up when called upon

they are taught it is ok,

not unlike Muslims who are taught by Mohammed that they can lie, sign false contracts and reneg any time, if it is with anyo e deemed an infidel

deny this at your own risk

so youre trying to peddle the idea that thais are inherently immoral? lol

I think he is trying to peddle the idea that Thainess is a way to get what you want as an excuse to override the moral way - I think I agree with that statement. Other nationalities use different forms of this to a greater or lesser degree - some nationalities are culturally more generally honest and straightforward and some are culturally less so.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

more chauvinist nonsense

[AYJAYDEE]

I am American and have been in many places in the world

Thailand is unique, in their embrace of dishonesty, prostitution, and enslavement of women, migrant workers, and anyone without white skin,

they are no different the the slave masters of the US south

the only thing missing, is the whipping post, rather they whip them by making them slaves to their families

An american?? it begins to make sense

I am not American and I agree with NoThainess4U - at least his second sentence.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

and yet another example of someone existing in a culture held in contempt. how sad

[timewilltell]

I am American and have been in many places in the world

Thailand is unique, in their embrace of dishonesty, prostitution, and enslavement of women, migrant workers, and anyone without white skin,

they are no different the the slave masters of the US south

the only thing missing, is the whipping post, rather they whip them by making them slaves to their families

An american?? it begins to make sense

I am not American and I agree with NoThainess4U - at least his second sentence.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

and yet another example of someone existing in a culture held in contempt. how sad

Or someone holding a different view to you. We are all products of our experiences!

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[AYJAYDEE]

Or someone holding a different view to you. We are all products of our experiences!

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

except I choose to associate with those in a culture I admire rather than hold in contempt. so sad to surround oneself with those you hold in such low esteem.

[morrobay]

Face started off as a way not to unnecessarily embarrass someone in a situation.

But the concept has been hijacked by masses of reckless people like most Thai drivers ,

Especially bus drivers.So that they get to continue being reckless.

For example take these jerk Bangkok city bus drivers who drop passengers of in the middle of the road.

The Thais just quietly accept this so that the jerk driver does not lose face if anyone complained.

Edited June 8, 2014 by morrobay

[benalibina]

[HeijoshinCool]

I am American and have been in many places in the world

Thailand is unique, in their embrace of dishonesty, prostitution, and enslavement of women, migrant workers, and anyone without white skin,

they are no different the the slave masters of the US south

the only thing missing, is the whipping post, rather they whip them by making them slaves to their families

An american?? it begins to make sense

.

Interesting remark for a person who explodes with vitriol when someone paints Thais with a wide brush.

[AYJAYDEE]

I am American and have been in many places in the world

Thailand is unique, in their embrace of dishonesty, prostitution, and enslavement of women, migrant workers, and anyone without white skin,

they are no different the the slave masters of the US south

the only thing missing, is the whipping post, rather they whip them by making them slaves to their families

An american?? it begins to make sense

.

Interesting remark for a person who explodes with vitriol when someone paints Thais with a wide brush.

when in rome

[NoThainess4U]

I despise no one except my ex wife' army of lawyers, who succeeded only in making ure she remains penniles

she is brazilian, her father English, I do despise some of them, but mostly for their cowardice in 1947

regarding the Thai's.

they have a hopeless existence

I neither despise them, nor admire them, as, they cannot possibly stimulate either

A HOPELESS EXISTENCE!! THERE WE GO! It's finally out in the open,you have nothing but contempt for thais. how sad it must be to exist in such a situation!

I left that cesspool in March, so, I spoke to Thailand with my money and my feet,

Thailand is but a memory to me, fading memory

I live outside Miami Beach, which has had the greatest weather recently, that I can remember

all the females speak english, and they wear, almost nothing

[AYJAYDEE]

I despise no one except my ex wife' army of lawyers, who succeeded only in making ure she remains penniles

she is brazilian, her father English, I do despise some of them, but mostly for their cowardice in 1947

regarding the Thai's.

they have a hopeless existence

I neither despise them, nor admire them, as, they cannot possibly stimulate either

A HOPELESS EXISTENCE!! THERE WE GO! It's finally out in the open,you have nothing but contempt for thais. how sad it must be to exist in such a situation!

I left that cesspool in March, so, I spoke to Thailand with my money and my feet,

Thailand is but a memory to me, fading memory

I live outside Miami Beach, which has had the greatest weather recently, that I can remember

all the females speak english, and they wear, almost nothing

sounds like a win /win for everyone. i'll look forward to your impressions of mexicans and cubans . lol

[NoThainess4U]

I despise no one except my ex wife' army of lawyers, who succeeded only in making ure she remains penniles

she is brazilian, her father English, I do despise some of them, but mostly for their cowardice in 1947

regarding the Thai's.

they have a hopeless existence

I neither despise them, nor admire them, as, they cannot possibly stimulate either

A HOPELESS EXISTENCE!! THERE WE GO! It's finally out in the open,you have nothing but contempt for thais. how sad it must be to exist in such a situation!

I left that cesspool in March, so, I spoke to Thailand with my money and my feet,

Thailand is but a memory to me, fading memory

I live outside Miami Beach, which has had the greatest weather recently, that I can remember

all the females speak english, and they wear, almost nothing

sounds like a win /win for everyone. i'll look forward to your impressions of mexicans and cubans . lol

I dont see either where I live, but

I love cuban girls, they speak english and have gorgeous aces and bodies,

I dont see mexicans here

[AYJAYDEE]

I dont see either where I live, but

I love cuban girls, they speak english and have gorgeous aces and bodies,

I dont see mexicans here

give it time, i'm sure it will all work out as i expect

[NoThainess4U]

I dont see either where I live, but

I love cuban girls, they speak english and have gorgeous aces and bodies,

I dont see mexicans here

give it time, i'm sure it will all work out as i expect

you havent clue of what you write

and apparently dont know florida

[spidermike007]

Its thainess.

Just wait until the fib hurts you personally either financially or personally.

You won't love thainess quite so much then. It is one of Thailand's biggest problems. Tourists can ignore it, for me as a long stayer it was what made me leave in the end.

Lies, lies, too many lies.

sounds like they solved a problem

If I was the problem, well.

If people you have had in your home can quite so willfully be liberal with the truth of something that effects your children, after knowing them closely for 10 years so be it.

I am quite lucky with my wife. After knowing her for nearly 15 years, she has understood that thainess stops at our doorstep. Saving face to feel better now has a terrible cost in the end.

She won't speak to that couple ever again. Its not I who is the problem it is the idea that failing.or doing wrong personally is something that has to be denied and ignored.

How can anyone trust anyone as a friend if the entire premise that they will lie to make themselves look better. About anything.

Ergo, true friends are few and far between and be very careful who you trust in Thailand.

well, i suggest you re-evaluate your own behaviour because I and most of my friends have been here far longer than you without these "problems". i suggest you google : quotes by pogo.

Saving face does not breed trust. Once trust is lost it is very difficult to regain. Especially if the person continues to "save face".

Its a sure way to destruction. But is it going to change? No.

With this obsticle, its no suprise that Thailand is a nation unblemished by achievement.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Well put. Feeling the need to save face is quite literally a boil on the face of this wonderful country. It is an act of tremendous cowardice. Face up to your issues. Be a man. Suck it up. Own it. Be responsible to humanity. All benefit in the end.

Spidermike007

[AYJAYDEE]

Its thainess.

Just wait until the fib hurts you personally either financially or personally.

You won't love thainess quite so much then. It is one of Thailand's biggest problems. Tourists can ignore it, for me as a long stayer it was what made me leave in the end.

Lies, lies, too many lies.

sounds like they solved a problem

If I was the problem, well.

If people you have had in your home can quite so willfully be liberal with the truth of something that effects your children, after knowing them closely for 10 years so be it.

I am quite lucky with my wife. After knowing her for nearly 15 years, she has understood that thainess stops at our doorstep. Saving face to feel better now has a terrible cost in the end.

She won't speak to that couple ever again. Its not I who is the problem it is the idea that failing.or doing wrong personally is something that has to be denied and ignored.

How can anyone trust anyone as a friend if the entire premise that they will lie to make themselves look better. About anything.

Ergo, true friends are few and far between and be very careful who you trust in Thailand.

well, i suggest you re-evaluate your own behaviour because I and most of my friends have been here far longer than you without these "problems". i suggest you google : quotes by pogo.

Saving face does not breed trust. Once trust is lost it is very difficult to regain. Especially if the person continues to "save face".

Its a sure way to destruction. But is it going to change? No.

With this obsticle, its no suprise that Thailand is a nation unblemished by achievement.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Well put. Feeling the need to save face is quite literally a boil on the face of this wonderful country. It is an act of tremendous cowardice. Face up to your issues. Be a man. Suck it up. Own it. Be responsible to humanity. All benefit in the end.

Spidermike007

Lol!!

[spidermike007]

Ok I read now every post here!

But one question , for me still not answered !

Why is it nearly impossible to win a loosing face back?

That kind of people want protect there face , are also that one

That not can handle self criticism !

I have a friend at home very straight man, married Thai wife

20 year come here for more then 40 times!

He says Thais also ignoring our face, he don't care about loosing

There're face policy in Thailand !

He say what he think!

And when airplane change price half our before take off

He. Stand inside the office counter and complaining load

That all can here!

People that want protect there face all the time,

Live in a illusion of lies to themself, and proberbly phosical ill!

This are also the reason why loosing the face people are bull headed , and cannot accept a good meaning advice from others !

Using a signal horn in traffic in other Asian country's , no problem, in Thailand someone can point a gun on you! This fact should aswer all question!

In my opinion it has absolutely nothing to do with the culture itself

It's only a excuse!

Correct. The need to save face is the demonstration of ones own weakness, on so many levels. Real men do not need to save face. Buck up. Man up. Take responsibility for ones own actions. Saving face is the opposite of this, and it an act of extreme cowardice. I do not want to hear about the cultural aspects of this. When a culture permits a person to be a weakling, in the name of face, something is wrong. Courage my boy. Courage. OWN IT!

[AYJAYDEE]

Ok I read now every post here!

But one question , for me still not answered !

Why is it nearly impossible to win a loosing face back?

That kind of people want protect there face , are also that one

That not can handle self criticism !

I have a friend at home very straight man, married Thai wife

20 year come here for more then 40 times!

He says Thais also ignoring our face, he don't care about loosing

There're face policy in Thailand !

He say what he think!

And when airplane change price half our before take off

He. Stand inside the office counter and complaining load

That all can here!

People that want protect there face all the time,

Live in a illusion of lies to themself, and proberbly phosical ill!

This are also the reason why loosing the face people are bull headed , and cannot accept a good meaning advice from others !

Using a signal horn in traffic in other Asian country's , no problem, in Thailand someone can point a gun on you! This fact should aswer all question!

In my opinion it has absolutely nothing to do with the culture itself

It's only a excuse!

Correct. The need to save face is the demonstration of ones own weakness, on so many levels. Real men do not need to save face. Buck up. Man up. Take responsibility for ones own actions. Saving face is the opposite of this, and it an act of extreme cowardice. I do not want to hear about the cultural aspects of this. When a culture permits a person to be a weakling, in the name of face, something is wrong. Courage my boy. Courage. OWN IT!

the only thing wrong is your understanding of how thai society works

[Berkshire]

Correct. The need to save face is the demonstration of ones own weakness, on so many levels. Real men do not need to save face. Buck up. Man up. Take responsibility for ones own actions. Saving face is the opposite of this, and it an act of extreme cowardice. I do not want to hear about the cultural aspects of this. When a culture permits a person to be a weakling, in the name of face, something is wrong. Courage my boy. Courage. OWN IT!

By your definition, there are a whole lot of cowards on the TV forum, never wanting to admit that they're wrong in the face of evidence to the contrary. Speaking of, when was the last time that you admitted you were wrong about anything? Hmmmm.

[raybal5]

http://psychology.wikia.com/wiki/Reputation

Saving Face can be compared to or related to:- .

• Credibility
• Face (social custom)
• Face negotiation theory
• Fame
• Guilt
• Honour
• Impression
• Morality
• Popularity
• Reputation
• Motivations for contributing to online communities
• Shame
• Social approval
• Social perception
• Status

[spidermike007]

Ok I read now every post here!

But one question , for me still not answered !

Why is it nearly impossible to win a loosing face back?

That kind of people want protect there face , are also that one

That not can handle self criticism !

I have a friend at home very straight man, married Thai wife

20 year come here for more then 40 times!

He says Thais also ignoring our face, he don't care about loosing

There're face policy in Thailand !

He say what he think!

And when airplane change price half our before take off

He. Stand inside the office counter and complaining load

That all can here!

People that want protect there face all the time,

Live in a illusion of lies to themself, and proberbly phosical ill!

This are also the reason why loosing the face people are bull headed , and cannot accept a good meaning advice from others !

Using a signal horn in traffic in other Asian country's , no problem, in Thailand someone can point a gun on you! This fact should aswer all question!

In my opinion it has absolutely nothing to do with the culture itself

It's only a excuse!

Correct. The need to save face is the demonstration of ones own weakness, on so many levels. Real men do not need to save face. Buck up. Man up. Take responsibility for ones own actions. Saving face is the opposite of this, and it an act of extreme cowardice. I do not want to hear about the cultural aspects of this. When a culture permits a person to be a weakling, in the name of face, something is wrong. Courage my boy. Courage. OWN IT!

the only thing wrong is your understanding of how thai society works

My point exactly. Thai society condones weakness when it comes to face. It allows people to avoid manning up, apologizing, facing their weakness, or running away from problems. Thai society allowing it or not, is not the point. It is a weakness. At least that is how I see it.

Spidermike007

[spidermike007]

Correct. The need to save face is the demonstration of ones own weakness, on so many levels. Real men do not need to save face. Buck up. Man up. Take responsibility for ones own actions. Saving face is the opposite of this, and it an act of extreme cowardice. I do not want to hear about the cultural aspects of this. When a culture permits a person to be a weakling, in the name of face, something is wrong. Courage my boy. Courage. OWN IT!

By your definition, there are a whole lot of cowards on the TV forum, never wanting to admit that they're wrong in the face of evidence to the contrary. Speaking of, when was the last time that you admitted you were wrong about anything? Hmmmm.

I admit I am wrong all the time. In have absolutely no issue with that. Nor with saying I am sorry, in a heartfelt manner. I consider it to be part of what constitutes being man. What is so hard about admitting one screwed up?

Spidermike007

[Runamile]

@Spidermike007

I simply do not understand these challenges on here. I, too, admit to screwing up. I, too, apologise profusely. Perhaps, more important, though, is that I learn from those mistakes, something that doesn't happen if you refuse to take responsibility or admit that an error even occurred in the first place. To that extent, it's not simply being man, rather than wimp, but, straightforwardly commonsensical, both for individuals and whole societies.

[spidermike007]

@Spidermike007

I simply do not understand these challenges on here. I, too, admit to screwing up. I, too, apologise profusely. Perhaps, more important, though, is that I learn from those mistakes, something that doesn't happen if you refuse to take responsibility or admit that an error even occurred in the first place. To that extent, it's not simply being man, rather than wimp, but, straightforwardly commonsensical, both for individuals and whole societies.

Thank you. All I am saying is that we are all better off if we are able to admit our faults and move on. It benefits all of society. It benefits all the people around us. Are not harmony and humility aspects of contemporary Thai society that should be promoted? A collective social policy that allows most of society to opt out of facing up to one's weakness appears to be nothing short of an abomination to me. It feels like the opposite of humility. It feels like pure ego, and comes from someplace very strange and bizarre.

Spidermike007

[Berkshire]

Correct. The need to save face is the demonstration of ones own weakness, on so many levels. Real men do not need to save face. Buck up. Man up. Take responsibility for ones own actions. Saving face is the opposite of this, and it an act of extreme cowardice. I do not want to hear about the cultural aspects of this. When a culture permits a person to be a weakling, in the name of face, something is wrong. Courage my boy. Courage. OWN IT!

By your definition, there are a whole lot of cowards on the TV forum, never wanting to admit that they're wrong in the face of evidence to the contrary. Speaking of, when was the last time that you admitted you were wrong about anything? Hmmmm.

I admit I am wrong all the time. In have absolutely no issue with that. Nor with saying I am sorry, in a heartfelt manner. I consider it to be part of what constitutes being man. What is so hard about admitting one screwed up?

Spidermike007

That's the thing, MIke. I've had plenty of Thais apologize to me for mistakes they've made. I've had Thais apologize to me for mistakes that wasn't even their fault. On the other hand, I've met several farangs who will refuse to admit that they're wrong. About anything.

This face thing that exist in Asia is really beyond the comprehension of most farangs. It's pretty subtle, most of the time. Like when a boss uses only so many words to tell a staff that he screwed up, but plenty of non-verbal communication. An American boss would be more direct. That sort of thing. Most of the examples brought up on this thread has nothing to do with face. Like when a BG GF refuses to admit that she was bonking other guys, even when caught. Or some guy giving wrong directions when asked. Or some waitress taking the wrong order and not admitting it.

It seems like most here are just trying to find reasons to bash on the Thais. This face thing is just a red herring.

[spidermike007]

Correct. The need to save face is the demonstration of ones own weakness, on so many levels. Real men do not need to save face. Buck up. Man up. Take responsibility for ones own actions. Saving face is the opposite of this, and it an act of extreme cowardice. I do not want to hear about the cultural aspects of this. When a culture permits a person to be a weakling, in the name of face, something is wrong. Courage my boy. Courage. OWN IT!

By your definition, there are a whole lot of cowards on the TV forum, never wanting to admit that they're wrong in the face of evidence to the contrary. Speaking of, when was the last time that you admitted you were wrong about anything? Hmmmm.

I admit I am wrong all the time. In have absolutely no issue with that. Nor with saying I am sorry, in a heartfelt manner. I consider it to be part of what constitutes being man. What is so hard about admitting one screwed up?

Spidermike007

That's the thing, MIke. I've had plenty of Thais apologize to me for mistakes they've made. I've had Thais apologize to me for mistakes that wasn't even their fault. On the other hand, I've met several farangs who will refuse to admit that they're wrong. About anything.

This face thing that exist in Asia is really beyond the comprehension of most farangs. It's pretty subtle, most of the time. Like when a boss uses only so many words to tell a staff that he screwed up, but plenty of non-verbal communication. An American boss would be more direct. That sort of thing. Most of the examples brought up on this thread has nothing to do with face. Like when a BG GF refuses to admit that she was bonking other guys, even when caught. Or some guy giving wrong directions when asked. Or some waitress taking the wrong order and not admitting it.

It seems like most here are just trying to find reasons to bash on the Thais. This face thing is just a red herring.

Fascinating points. Well taken. I have no interest in bashing on Thais needlessly. These are real beefs I am voicing. I really like the Thai people, for many reasons, and on a lot of levels. They are remarkable. I would enjoy developing a greater understanding of this whole face thing which could not feel more alien or bizarre to me.

Spidermike007

[tifino]

Living in a Thai-run environment 24-7 one sees a lot of day2day saving face going on around me/us.

Lose count, at the temple, visiting anothers' home, down the cafe (usually always ones run by one of the Thai wives), of how many wives are trying to save their face in front of everyone else -

"oh I not working, I have nice shop"

that is only one of so may variations, of the same scene.

Husband(s) sitting quietly, smiling, down the back, reading paper, drinking a coffee one of her daughters' has made...

...whether he has sponsored her, or not, is what's not mentioned, to Save her face.

[tifino]

just back in the seat, after a little one on one experiment in saving face:

...Missus just called out from the kitchen:

"Come Honey, your turn for do my nuts"

so I lurched away just a minute ago from ThaiVisa, and into the kitchen,

sidle up behind her,
wrapped arms around,

and hands around,

taking a cupful each of her chestnuts...

...the soft ones that is

"bah muk" I exclaim quicker than her, and that ALWAYS saves me from further comment (beating her to the punchline, that is!!)

"Wrong Ones!!"...

...as I then turn around for the bench, to start splitting chestnuts for the oven.

The best thing is that we go thru a kilo of chestnuts every 2nd day, so I might make this a habit

Lovely - knowing that I can have my chestnuts, and eat them too!!

...and all turned out well as I was again forgiven, and wife has now gone back to her Kapook & Sanook, like nothing ever happened.

I do something different everyday, something that should, by rights, make me embarrassed, and so demonstrating to her that a little bit of redface doesn't hurt anybody

Edited June 10, 2014 by tifino

[Foxter]

Ok I read now every post here!

But one question , for me still not answered !

Why is it nearly impossible to win a loosing face back?

That kind of people want protect there face , are also that one

That not can handle self criticism !

I have a friend at home very straight man, married Thai wife

20 year come here for more then 40 times!

He says Thais also ignoring our face, he don't care about loosing

There're face policy in Thailand !

He say what he think!

And when airplane change price half our before take off

He. Stand inside the office counter and complaining load

That all can here!

People that want protect there face all the time,

Live in a illusion of lies to themself, and proberbly phosical ill!

This are also the reason why loosing the face people are bull headed , and cannot accept a good meaning advice from others !

Using a signal horn in traffic in other Asian country's , no problem, in Thailand someone can point a gun on you! This fact should aswer all question!

In my opinion it has absolutely nothing to do with the culture itself

It's only a excuse!

Correct. The need to save face is the demonstration of ones own weakness, on so many levels. Real men do not need to save face. Buck up. Man up. Take responsibility for ones own actions. Saving face is the opposite of this, and it an act of extreme cowardice. I do not want to hear about the cultural aspects of this. When a culture permits a person to be a weakling, in the name of face, something is wrong. Courage my boy. Courage. OWN IT!

I understand your reasoning but we are talking about face an Asian culture , you talking as a westerner from a westerners point of view and western culture.

If you were talking about a westerner then I would agree with you, but the whole discussion is about face, not a western custom. I am sure there are a lot of things in each custom or even country that others think make them weak or think its wrong.

If it's been there for century's or even longer , it must work for them.

I thought the original question was to understand why , not slag them off, which most questions seem to end up doing.

I sometimes wonder why they stay in the country, they slag it off and the people so much.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[benalibina]

Ok I read now every post here!

But one question , for me still not answered !

Why is it nearly impossible to win a loosing face back?

That kind of people want protect there face , are also that one

That not can handle self criticism !

I have a friend at home very straight man, married Thai wife

20 year come here for more then 40 times!

He says Thais also ignoring our face, he don't care about loosing

There're face policy in Thailand !

He say what he think!

And when airplane change price half our before take off

He. Stand inside the office counter and complaining load

That all can here!

People that want protect there face all the time,

Live in a illusion of lies to themself, and proberbly phosical ill!

This are also the reason why loosing the face people are bull headed , and cannot accept a good meaning advice from others !

Using a signal horn in traffic in other Asian country's , no problem, in Thailand someone can point a gun on you! This fact should aswer all question!

In my opinion it has absolutely nothing to do with the culture itself

It's only a excuse!

Correct. The need to save face is the demonstration of ones own weakness, on so many levels. Real men do not need to save face. Buck up. Man up. Take responsibility for ones own actions. Saving face is the opposite of this, and it an act of extreme cowardice. I do not want to hear about the cultural aspects of this. When a culture permits a person to be a weakling, in the name of face, something is wrong. Courage my boy. Courage. OWN IT!

I understand your reasoning but we are talking about face an Asian culture , you talking as a westerner from a westerners point of view and western culture.

If you were talking about a westerner then I would agree with you, but the whole discussion is about face, not a western custom. I am sure there are a lot of things in each custom or even country that others think make them weak or think its wrong.

If it's been there for century's or even longer , it must work for them.

I thought the original question was to understand why , not slag them off, which most questions seem to end up doing.

I sometimes wonder why they stay in the country, they slag it off and the people so much.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

I believe posters stated already their opinion of FACE.....that is not slagging off, its stating an opinion.

If you know where the perfect country is, all of us would like to know, name it please.