Travel2003 Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Most houses in my mooban have now gotten this Safe-T-Cut installed. The sales men coming to all houses with their demonstration kits, and scary pics of dead ppl in the showers. When trying to ask the salesmen why I need one, they really cant explain to me why this device is not just another fuse. My question here is: Why do I need to buy and install this Safe-T-Cut device, when I already have the regular fuse box with the breakers? Is this not just another fuse? I dont care what the cost is, I like to know if I need it? Would appreciate comments and suggestions. PS. I don't know much about it, so please keep it simple. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bankruatsteve Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 It's much like asking if you "need" insurance. The Safe-T-Cut should have RCD protection (look it up) and will trip if there is any current going from your electric supply (most likely through some appliance) into your body before you are seriously injured. If you sign up, make sure the box has a breaker with a test button on it as "Safe-T-Cut" does make non-RCD units as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travel2003 Posted June 22, 2014 Author Share Posted June 22, 2014 It's much like asking if you "need" insurance. The Safe-T-Cut should have RCD protection (look it up) and will trip if there is any current going from your electric supply (most likely through some appliance) into your body before you are seriously injured. If you sign up, make sure the box has a breaker with a test button on it as "Safe-T-Cut" does make non-RCD units as well. Please bare with me now, but doesn't a regular fusebox do this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomasteve Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Unfortunately it doesn't. Have a read of the pinned topics at the start of this forum to understand more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JesseFrank Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Any shower heater has a built in RCD these days, isn't it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bankruatsteve Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Any shower heater has a built in RCD these days, isn't it ? Most do, yes. For some reason nobody (?) really knows, the mfg. call it an "ELCB". But, that only protects the shower unit. A front-end RCD will protect all downstream circuits. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooked Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 It's much like asking if you "need" insurance. The Safe-T-Cut should have RCD protection (look it up) and will trip if there is any current going from your electric supply (most likely through some appliance) into your body before you are seriously injured. If you sign up, make sure the box has a breaker with a test button on it as "Safe-T-Cut" does make non-RCD units as well. The Safe t Cut we had before had a test button. We got a new one and since reading your post I see that I have no Test button. It has been earthed and we no longer get mild shocks off everything we touch. Do I need another worry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travel2003 Posted June 22, 2014 Author Share Posted June 22, 2014 Unfortunately it doesn't. Have a read of the pinned topics at the start of this forum to understand more. Tried to read some older posts/threads, but they very soon start to get too complicated for this simple mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 The Safe t Cut we had before had a test button. We got a new one and since reading your post I see that I have no Test button. It has been earthed and we no longer get mild shocks off everything we touch. Do I need another worry? If you have no "Test" button you have no earth leakage protection. Why did you replace the original unit, was it faulty? Safe-T-Cut make regular breakers too, just because that's the label doesn't mean it's an RCD. If unsure, post a photo here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 To our OP, if your main breaker has a "Test" button you don't need the device being hawked around. Otherwise you should install one, it may save the life of someone important to you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaidDown Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 OK absolutely basic... With a standard breaker if you touch a genuine live wire and are connected to earth, ie standing shoeless on a tiled and/or wet floor then the breaker will trip when 10/20/30 Amps pass through you. With an RCD eg Safe-T-Cut or similar it will trip when 0.03 Amps (or less) pass through you. Which would you prefer? As Crossy points out it must have a test button. (as said absolutely basic, not taking into account any earthing, except you) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travel2003 Posted June 22, 2014 Author Share Posted June 22, 2014 To our OP, if your main breaker has a "Test" button you don't need the device being hawked around. Otherwise you should install one, it may save the life of someone important to you. Thnx a lot for the comment and suggestion. As I said, I don't care what it costs, as long as we agree I should go ahead and buy one. Again, thnx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjnaus Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Definitely, definitely get one installed. IT'S NOT THE SAME AS A REGULAR BREAKER BOX, a regular breaker box won't safe your life when exposing yourself to current. We had one installed in our new house and it was put to the test when a certain loved one thought it was a good idea to hose down the fan while it was still plugged in. Power went down instantly and prevented said loved one from serious injury. From what I understand, these installations only cost 5.000b or so, for me that's a no brainer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooked Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 (edited) The Safe t Cut we had before had a test button. We got a new one and since reading your post I see that I have no Test button. It has been earthed and we no longer get mild shocks off everything we touch. Do I need another worry? If you have no "Test" button you have no earth leakage protection. Why did you replace the original unit, was it faulty? Safe-T-Cut make regular breakers too, just because that's the label doesn't mean it's an RCD. If unsure, post a photo here. As stated above, we were getting mild shocks off everything (computer, fridge etc) and also it was an old model, too small. I was surprised when they banged in an earthing rod and earthed the Safe-T-cut. However I know nothing about electrical installations, I just let them do what they thought best. (Found on the net): https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?act=url&depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=th&tl=en&u=http://www.safe-t-cut-lopburi.com/wizContent.asp%3FwizConID%3D110%26txtmMenu_ID%3D7&usg=ALkJrhhDutPUIZK82qQBYCw6gUcU4YYctA which seems to claim that it does protect even though it has no test button? Edited June 22, 2014 by cooked 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bankruatsteve Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 If the things you touched that gave you a mild shock before now have 3-prong receptacles AND 3-prong plugs going into them then you have ground protection but sadly no RCD protection. If there is only 2-prong at any point, then you will still get the shock no matter what they did at the box. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooked Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 If the things you touched that gave you a mild shock before now have 3-prong receptacles AND 3-prong plugs going into them then you have ground protection but sadly no RCD protection. If there is only 2-prong at any point, then you will still get the shock no matter what they did at the box. We only have two prong plugs. We no longer get shocks off things, as stated above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JesseFrank Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 If the things you touched that gave you a mild shock before now have 3-prong receptacles AND 3-prong plugs going into them then you have ground protection but sadly no RCD protection. If there is only 2-prong at any point, then you will still get the shock no matter what they did at the box. We only have two prong plugs. We no longer get shocks off things, as stated above. Well, if they had just put a sticker on the box that said earthed, it would have had the same effect as the earthing rod they hammered in the ground. If you don't get shocks anymore now, I guess that mean you changed shoes as well at the same time as the fuse box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 The Safe t Cut we had before had a test button. We got a new one and since reading your post I see that I have no Test button. It has been earthed and we no longer get mild shocks off everything we touch. Do I need another worry? If you have no "Test" button you have no earth leakage protection. Why did you replace the original unit, was it faulty? Safe-T-Cut make regular breakers too, just because that's the label doesn't mean it's an RCD. If unsure, post a photo here. As stated above, we were getting mild shocks off everything (computer, fridge etc) and also it was an old model, too small. I was surprised when they banged in an earthing rod and earthed the Safe-T-cut. However I know nothing about electrical installations, I just let them do what they thought best. (Found on the net): https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?act=url&depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=th&tl=en&u=http://www.safe-t-cut-lopburi.com/wizContent.asp%3FwizConID%3D110%26txtmMenu_ID%3D7&usg=ALkJrhhDutPUIZK82qQBYCw6gUcU4YYctA which seems to claim that it does protect even though it has no test button? That unit does NOT that's NOT have any form of earth leakage protection. You need to install a front-end RCBO (again from Safe-T-Cut) to restore full safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bankruatsteve Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 (edited) Just to clarify for the uninformed... the Safe-T-Cut will have the main breaker labelled as "RCBO". That is the 'normal' over-current breaker in combination with RCD. Look for "RCBO" and the test button else you are not getting the protection you need. Edit: AND, you do NOT have grounding shock prevention unless there is 3-prong (ground wire) to earth via the receptacle and 3-prong from the appliance (or separate ground wire to a hopefully decent ground from the appliance.) Edited June 22, 2014 by bankruatsteve 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 One thing to remember is that the shower unit with RCD, or whatever they call it, only protects beyond the switch - the line feeding the unit is not protected unless there is another unit upstream. These whole house units could save your life. I installed mine in 1978 when they were first marketed here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotsira Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 This is a Safe T Cut consumer unit (fuse box) with built in RCBO protection. To clear up any confusion Safe T Cut is the name of the company, (the brand name) it is not the name of any particular device. The above picture shows a consumer unit (fuse box) with 8 way circuit breakers ( so 8 separate circuits can be supplied from this consumer unit). It also has a built in RCBO to protect all 8 circuits, this is what's recommended for full protection against any potential electrical shocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forkinhades Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 I dont care what the cost is, I like to know if I need it? Absolutely, it is a life saving device, and a REQUIREMENT of the PEA Please bare with me now, but doesn't a regular fusebox do this? Normally yes where your earth is stable and of a low enough value, in Thailand this is not the case With a standard breaker if you touch a genuine live wire and are connected to earth, ie standing shoeless on a tiled and/or wet floor then the breaker will trip when 10/20/30 Amps pass through you. Not quite in fact a type C 10Amp MCB will let 100A flow to earth before it opens (C=multiply by 10) If the things you touched that gave you a mild shock before now have 3-prong receptacles AND 3-prong plugs going into them then you have ground protection but sadly no RCD protection Not quite Steve, If you have an earth with low enough values (MEN connection required) then you will NOT get any tingles! Even with an RCBO (Safety-Cut) you can recieve touch voltages of up to 50V before they open. EDIT: That is to say a Safety-Cut installed with poor earthing will still give you tingles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emanphoto Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 If the things you touched that gave you a mild shock before now have 3-prong receptacles AND 3-prong plugs going into them then you have ground protection but sadly no RCD protection. If there is only 2-prong at any point, then you will still get the shock no matter what they did at the box. That's the problem we have in our home, nothing is grounded and hasn't been for 20+ years w/previous owners. We're having major work done throughout the house and a safety cut is in our main box. Will check to make sure there is a test button to make sure it is a current (no pun intended) model. As a temporary measure w/shocks coming from computers etc, wear slippers. Socks or bare feet will get you shocked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forkinhades Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 3 Duplicate posts deleted 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emanphoto Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 THANK YOU! TV is misbehaving here. 3 Duplicate posts deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snarky66 Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Forkinhades is quite right every house in Thailand should have a safety cut fitted. That is because there is no permit system nor inspectors to check the installation of household wiring. They have saved my bacon quite a few times. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudcrab Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Any shower heater has a built in RCD these days, isn't it ? Most do, yes. For some reason nobody (?) really knows, the mfg. call it an "ELCB". But, that only protects the shower unit. A front-end RCD will protect all downstream circuits. RCD - Residual Current Device ELCB - Earth Leakage Circuit Breaker The ELCB was a precursor device that was widely used but is not usually installed any more. The RCD is the latest generation safety device, and the only one you should consider. Also test the RCD by pushing the test button every 6 months or so, as the RCD safety function can fail but still supply current - known as a "hidden" failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lisu Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 It's a great addition in Thailand, even to a brand new house, if just for the variable resistor allowing you to control the current's break point. Also, if you have children, definitely yes - a thousand times yes. Even a split second can make a difference when it comes to electric shocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HughJass Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 This is a Safe T Cut consumer unit (fuse box) with built in RCBO protection. To clear up any confusion Safe T Cut is the name of the company, (the brand name) it is not the name of any particular device. The above picture shows a consumer unit (fuse box) with 8 way circuit breakers ( so 8 separate circuits can be supplied from this consumer unit). It also has a built in RCBO to protect all 8 circuits, this is what's recommended for full protection against any potential electrical shocks. my g/f has this box in her house (6 switch) and the RCBO test button has never worked...we got a brand new replacement RCBO from the shop and that was the same recently an electrician came to her house to do a minor job and remarked that the fuse box wasn't earthed so I have now bought some appropriate wire and a ground rod and we are waiting for his return to fit could the lack of an earth on the box account for the test button on the RCBO not working? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forkinhades Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Please post a picture of the inside of the box. A common mistake is the MEN link is in the wrong place, which means the device will not work. The device will work without a earth! Sent from my SM-G900F using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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