New resolution on transgender rights

[Lite Beer]

New resolution on transgender rights
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- The National Human Rights Commission of Thailand has issued a resolution advising universities to revise regulations, permitting students to cross-dress at their graduation ceremony.

The NHRC has reportedly considered a student petition from an unnamed university in a case involving transgender students being unable to receive their diplomas while cross-dressing. Complainants claim that male students who live as females were part of the university and were being unfairly treated.

They feel like their rights are restricted and that they are being deprived of freedom and, as a result, are under stress.

The NHRC said universities that did not allow transgender students to receive a diploma under the premise that their clothes conflicted with the university dress code were disrespecting human dignity and violating human rights.

The organisation called on universities to revise their regulations to clearly specify dress codes for class attendance, exam-taking and graduation in order to foster human rights, freedom and equality.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/New-resolution-on-transgender-rights-30237291.html

-- The Nation 2014-06-28

[notmyself]

Quite right too.

[jaltsc]

"The NHRC said universities that did not allow transgender students to receive a diploma under the premise that their clothes conflicted with the university dress code were disrespecting human dignity and violating human rights."

Good move. Universities need to be more concerned about what is going on inside of the students' heads than how they appear on the outside. If people are living their lives as a particular gender, it is not really a case of cross dressing. They are dressing as who they truly believe they are. Perhaps the universities need to implement courses on "diversity" to better help their graduates function in a world with many cultures, philosophies and customs.

Edited June 27, 2014 by jaltsc

[JeremyBowskill]

"The NHRC said universities that did not allow transgender students to receive a diploma under the premise that their clothes conflicted with the university dress code were disrespecting human dignity and violating human rights."

Good move. Universities need to be more concerned about what is going on inside of the students' heads than how they appear on the outside. If people are living their lives as a particular gender, it is not really a case of cross dressing. They are dressing as who they truly believe they are. Perhaps the universities need to implement courses on "diversity" to better help their graduates function in a world with many cultures, philosophies and customs.

Not quite sure the motive for dressing as/becoming a woman are always that clear cut (no pun intended) in Thailand. Sometimes it can be purely financial as they think they can make more money as a female copy. That being said, don't really see how it matters too much as far as graduation goes. People should be able to dress as they want.

[Bender]

amazing place,

this is a country, that in 2014, still put people into slavery and... and ....and .......Their National Human Rights Commission of Thailand

has nothing more to do, than advice university to allowed guy to dress like girl at their graduation.

What a strange world <banana> country we live.

[ezzra]

Yep, get those lady boys of Pattaya's streets and into university.....

[catweazle]

Nice move - me like !!!

[seajae]

I see no problem with it if they declared they preferred to be referred to as female when they enrolled into the uni. If they signed up as male then they should receive their degree as a male, if they signed as female then as a female, pretty simple really. You take responsibility for who you are, if you dress and act as a female everyday then that is who you should be accepted as, if you dress and act like a male then again that is who you are, after all, these people know exactly what they want to be for many years before going to uni.

[techboy]

amazing place,

this is a country, that in 2014, still put people into slavery and... and ....and .......Their National Human Rights Commission of Thailand

has nothing more to do, than advice university to allowed guy to dress like girl at their graduation.

What a strange world country we live.

Oh yeah. Another "know it all" talking down Thailand as being primitvo. Safe money says you never lived in a banana country or anywhere else before coming here.

BTW, whether or not they fall short in other responsibilities it is idiotic to criticise them fo doing their job in other situations. Your post is pointless.

[techboy]

Frankly I don't care if they want to run around Siam Center bare-arsed and wearing panties on their heads as long as they don't try to harangue me with their culture.

[neverdie]

A step in the right direction.

I wonder why the same rules don't apply to all forms of education in Thailand, why just stop with Universities.

What about Transgender rights to obtain loans from banking institutions or work within the government sector. What about their rights to marry or adopt children.

Its amazing that its 2014, yet living in Thailand for Transgendered men and women is still like living in the dark ages. So much for equality.

[Bluespunk]

amazing place,

this is a country, that in 2014, still put people into slavery and... and ....and .......Their National Human Rights Commission of Thailand

has nothing more to do, than advice university to allowed guy to dress like girl at their graduation.

What a strange world <banana> country we live.

I'm sure they have lots of other things to do and are in fact doing them. That does not mean they should not also be acting over this issue. They received a complaint and have responded to it. What's wrong with that?

[techboy]

A step in the right direction.

I wonder why the same rules don't apply to all forms of education in Thailand, why just stop with Universities.

What about Transgender rights to obtain loans from banking institutions or work within the government sector. What about their rights to marry or adopt children.

Its amazing that its 2014, yet living in Thailand for Transgendered men and women is still like living in the dark ages. So much for equality.

Actually Thai society as a whole is more open and accepting of transgender than most. You can site specific institutions with conservative policies but simply using your eyes as you move through a day in a city will prove you wrong. Even on TV series ladyboys are acknowledged as part of Thai society in that they play numerous popular roles.

I will go a bit further- and please take note that you are the one that took discussion beyond the universities.

I think that there has recently been much bias applied in hiring transgenders into jobs, on the basis of their sexuality rather than qualifications.

Example: Just go into many food service franchises- or even Starbucks and you will find them now inundated with gay males- and they are thoroughly incompetent! They incessantly screw up orders, or you need to repeat orders several times, or you stand around waiting to be served and not noticed while they are having such a tiddly time giggling and jabbering away with one another behind the counter.

The more I think about it the further convinced I become that your complaints are based on the whim of a malcontent rather than reality.

[DrTuner]

A good move towards making it a norm not to have a shirt on again.

[Thai at Heart]

Who exactly are they offending?

[Jingthing]

Seems a triviality. Give those who are legit trans people the legal right to change their I.D. cards and passports.

[neverdie]

A step in the right direction.

I wonder why the same rules don't apply to all forms of education in Thailand, why just stop with Universities.

What about Transgender rights to obtain loans from banking institutions or work within the government sector. What about their rights to marry or adopt children.

Its amazing that its 2014, yet living in Thailand for Transgendered men and women is still like living in the dark ages. So much for equality.

Actually Thai society as a whole is more open and accepting of transgender than most. You can site specific institutions with conservative policies but simply using your eyes as you move through a day in a city will prove you wrong. Even on TV series ladyboys are acknowledged as part of Thai society in that they play numerous popular roles.

I will go a bit further- and please take note that you are the one that took discussion beyond the universities.

I think that there has recently been much bias applied in hiring transgenders into jobs, on the basis of their sexuality rather than qualifications.

Example: Just go into many food service franchises- or even Starbucks and you will find them now inundated with gay males- and they are thoroughly incompetent! They incessantly screw up orders, or you need to repeat orders several times, or you stand around waiting to be served and not noticed while they are having such a tiddly time giggling and jabbering away with one another behind the counter.

The more I think about it the further convinced I become that your complaints are based on the whim of a malcontent rather than reality.

Sorry,

You have little idea and its based on common misconceptions from shows like the ladyboy show. Fact is, ladyboys cannot get bank loans in Thailand (unless something recently changed), they cannot work within Govt Departments, Until recently Ladyboys would get a paper from the Army at Conscription time that stated they had ' Mental Illness' .

Furthermore, Gays, Lesbian and Transgender people can NOT marry in Thailand. There are no civil unions. Partners of Gay, Lesbian and Transgender people can NOT obtain the same visas and rights under immigration laws within Thailand. Furthermore, various health insurance companies wont cover transgendered people within Thailand.

Thailand is touted as having open views towards transgendered people (ladyboys) but in actual fact many ladyboys are treated as a third class citizens. Leave the bars, clubs and sex workers aside and follow decent hard working ladyboys as they move about Thailand trying to live out normal lives. Men in the street openly harass them and they are treated poorly by Police and other persons in positions of power. Transgendered people in relationships have no rights as far as family law goes when their partners die, they cannot be recognised as next of kin etc etc.

Times are changing and eventually these people will end up with the same rights as the rest of us, its just amazing how slow things actually progress.

Techboy, you seem to be getting a little bit confused about what the term 'transgender' means. In the above post you stated the following;

"I think that there has recently been much bias applied in hiring transgenders into jobs, on the basis of their sexuality rather than qualifications.

Example: Just go into many food service franchises- or even Starbucks and you will find them now inundated with gay males- and they are thoroughly incompetent! They incessantly screw up orders, or you need to repeat orders several times, or you stand around waiting to be served and not noticed while they are having such a tiddly time giggling and jabbering away with one another behind the counter."

You see in the first paragraph you refer to the hiring of transgendered into jobs and in the second parragraph you refer to the example of gay males.

Are you clear that gay males are not transgendered?

Do you understand that the word 'Katoey' has derogatory underpinnings?

Sure, you are partly right, it would appear on the surface that Thai people are very accepting of Transgendered (and perhaps also gay people), however beneath that first appearance lies a darker, more sinister outlook, not for all of course.

There is greater acceptance among the community than there was 50 years ago and certain 'celebrity' transgendered have made inroads with improving the situation. There is a movement of Transgendered people within Thailand that are fighting for equal rights and theres a lot more to the movement than what first meets the eye.

Regarding your 'malcontent' comment, I take no offence. You have made a common mistake when assessing this situation. Perhaps you should now take the time to educate yourself and find out what the truth behind the situation really is.

I will concede that in 2014, there are a lot more companies and various opportunities for TG than there were in the past. The situation is improving, but they are far from obtaining equal human rights.

In countries like Australia, Transgendered people can have the title "Mr' removed from correspondence sent to them. The can obtain formal identification without reference to gender. Under immigration laws and the like their relationships are recognised. They cannot be discriminated against in the work place. Also their gender can be changed or removed from Passports. There are laws protecting them from discrimination. Non of these basic rights apply in Thailand. I could go on, but for the purpose of maintaining your attention I will cease at this point.

One last point of issue, that may interest you. As recent as last year, the government of the day had drawn up draft policy which would recognise gay, lesbian and transgendered people and their relationships. The legislation looked as if it was going to pass through and become law, however the Political crisis saw that process come to a halt. I have not seen the legislation but from what I understand it will allow for civil unions between Gay, Lesbian and Transgendered people in Thailand. It will allow these people to obtain the same rights under laws that apply to litigation and family law etc. I am sure we will hear more about his matter when the current situation resolves itself, until then, for these people the fight continues.

I for one believe that all humans should have equal rights within a community. Its not acceptable to discriminate against someone because they are black and it certainly isnt acceptable to discriminate against the transgendered or any other group, period.

[neverdie]

Seems a triviality. Give those who are legit trans people the legal right to change their I.D. cards and passports.

re; triviality

Actually JT, I find that a little bit surprising coming from you, as I respect you as a person who is open minded and reasonable when it comes to equality.

I have know several ladyboy's who have found it rather confronting that they are forced to wear a male uniform when attending University exams and Graduations. At these graduations their names are called out, Mr X and they have to awkwardly present themselves as male people. Their photographs of their graduations are taken with them looking as if they are men. They don't like it and its not fair, many of these people have presented as female for many years.

Having said that, Im not, gay, lesbian or transgendered but I support the entire movement for equality, its long overdue that people in the categories suffer discrimination on such basic rights.

[animatic]

I see no problem with it if they declared they preferred to be referred to as female when they enrolled into the uni. If they signed up as male then they should receive their degree as a male, if they signed as female then as a female, pretty simple really. You take responsibility for who you are, if you dress and act as a female everyday then that is who you should be accepted as, if you dress and act like a male then again that is who you are, after all, these people know exactly what they want to be for many years before going to uni.

What about those that enrolled as a male and finally got the freedom and inner strength to make the change full time? Are they any less deserving than t hose who made their decision earlier? Answer; No.

Many young people of what ever sexuality only come to terms with their true selves in the middle university years.

In any case this is simply removing an older group's ingrained prejudice. Dressing as a woman within the schools dress code should be considered properly dressed, no matter the gender of the wearer.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Chris Lawrence]

A few years ago we went to a civil wedding of two friends, Pete and Howrad. My son is Downs Syndrome, was about 14 asked in the car, "Dad where are we going" I told him; with a confused look on his face he said, "But Dad, they are two boys". I just said back to him that it was OK for 2 men to marry if the love each other. With that his confusion went and he accepted the situation. If it was only that simple.

At least it is a step in the right direction.

[animatic]

Seems a triviality. Give those who are legit trans people the legal right to change their I.D. cards and passports.

re; triviality

Actually JT, I find that a little bit surprising coming from you, as I respect you as a person who is open minded and reasonable when it comes to equality.

I have know several ladyboy's who have found it rather confronting that they are forced to wear a male uniform when attending University exams and Graduations. At these graduations their names are called out, Mr X and they have to awkwardly present themselves as male people. Their photographs of their graduations are taken with them looking as if they are men. They don't like it and its not fair, many of these people have presented as female for many years.

Having said that, Im not, gay, lesbian or transgendered but I support the entire movement for equality, its long overdue that people in the categories suffer discrimination on such basic rights.

I don't think you understood JT.

I read that as a relative triviality compared to a serious issue like their legal public identification.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Cthulhu]

What transgender rights?

Given the constant harassment they seem to get every night on Pattaya Walking Street, both from the BiB and the Blackshirts, I didn't know they had any.

My live-in of 8 years, who just happens to be of the TV persuasion, and who is as honest as the day is long, won't even go down there any more after nearly being carted off to the monkey house, while sitting talking to me in a well know Walking Street bar last month. She/he was upset enough to insist we go home.

Almost everyone else in the bar got lifted although they were all off the street and causing no problem to anyone. The &lt;deleted&gt; who lifted them said he had to make a report of who were the good ladyboys, whatever they might be, but they all knew it was just a cover for a pee test in soi 9.

When I pointed out to my chum that as she never took drugs of any sort she had nothing to fear her response was that she had no desire to be humiliated in a public spectacle and anyway the Pattaya police could do anything they wanted.

B*****ds!

[neverdie]

Seems a triviality. Give those who are legit trans people the legal right to change their I.D. cards and passports.

re; triviality

Actually JT, I find that a little bit surprising coming from you, as I respect you as a person who is open minded and reasonable when it comes to equality.

I have know several ladyboy's who have found it rather confronting that they are forced to wear a male uniform when attending University exams and Graduations. At these graduations their names are called out, Mr X and they have to awkwardly present themselves as male people. Their photographs of their graduations are taken with them looking as if they are men. They don't like it and its not fair, many of these people have presented as female for many years.

Having said that, Im not, gay, lesbian or transgendered but I support the entire movement for equality, its long overdue that people in the categories suffer discrimination on such basic rights.

I don't think you understood JT.

I read that as a relative triviality compared to a serious issue like their legal public identification.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Fair enough, if thats the case I apologise JT.

I will say however, and I am sure JT will agree, its all about babysteps. Slowly and surely each little bigoted rule, each bias guideline and misguided law needs to be revoked and revamped.

Eventually and I hope in my day, there will be fair and equal laws that relate to all people, irregardless of sexual orientation or identity.

[neverdie]

What transgender rights?

Given the constant harassment they seem to get every night on Pattaya Walking Street, both from the BiB and the Blackshirts, I didn't know they had any.

My live-in of 8 years, who just happens to be of the TV persuasion, and who is as honest as the day is long, won't even go down there any more after nearly being carted off to the monkey house, while sitting talking to me in a well know Walking Street bar last month. She/he was upset enough to insist we go home.

Almost everyone else in the bar got lifted although they were all off the street and causing no problem to anyone. The <deleted> who lifted them said he had to make a report of who were the good ladyboys, whatever they might be, but they all knew it was just a cover for a pee test in soi 9.

When I pointed out to my chum that as she never took drugs of any sort she had nothing to fear her response was that she had no desire to be humiliated in a public spectacle and anyway the Pattaya police could do anything they wanted.

B*****ds!

Thats what Im talking about and thats the sort of thing you don't see in the Thailand brochures. Its not just this way in Pattaya either.

I also have family members that are transgendered. None of them have every worked in the 'scene' and yet at various points in their lives they have been confronted with this sort of harassment.

I am sorry to hear that your 'live in' was treated in this manner, its not acceptable.

[Ulysses G.]

If men masquerade as females every other day of the year, why not on graduation day? Might as well be consistent.

[Jingthing]

If men masquerade as females every other day of the year, why not on graduation day? Might as well be consistent.

I think you are confusing drag queens from persons with legitimate gender identity issues.

[Ulysses G.]

If men masquerade as females every other day of the year, why not on graduation day? Might as well be consistent.

I think you are confusing drag queens from persons with legitimate gender identity issues.

I favor letting either one dress up as women on graduation day. Why not?

[kingstonkid]

amazing place,

this is a country, that in 2014, still put people into slavery and... and ....and .......Their National Human Rights Commission of Thailand

has nothing more to do, than advice university to allowed guy to dress like girl at their graduation.

What a strange world <banana> country we live.

If you do not like it then feel free to take the first flight out.

Just be careful of the door

[binjalin]

I don't understand it but why the big deal?

[h90]

Quite right too.

No quite wrong, the University should fully focus on the quality of their graduates. Not on their uniforms or gender. That should be totally scrapped.

It shouldn't matter if someone comes with this or that uniform or naked....only performance matters. So the that discussion is the wrong discussion.....

No we should not care about the transgenders rights and uniforms.....We should care about quality and performance only at university....