Bodies of three missing teens found in West Bank - reports

[poohy]

Sad news for Israel and my heart goes out to the families of those murdered boys. But 400 arrests of Palestinians? How many Israelis were held accountable for the 1383 Palestinians murdered in 2008, 333 of which children?

Israel is no better than other terrorist organisations in the world, Al Qaida, isis, boko haram, etc etc etc. Such action is disgraceful, disgusting , unacceptable behaviour. Unfortunately they control much of the world economy so everyone turns a blind eye. shame as America....or more accurately Right wing Christian America will always back them up.

[Morch]

Sorry about the teens dying, that is never good or with reason. That said, where is the outcry about routine killing of Palestinian children? About 10 Palestinian children are killed for every one Israeli. Who are the major terrorists then? Hard to find numbers, but at least 4 Palestinians have been killed since kidnapping and if I weren't so lazy could get more accurate number, but perhaps 7+. But that is okay because it Israel doing that, being a democracy/theocracy apartheid society using tactics not all that different from Nazis. The victims of holocaust become persecutors.

Not sure why you would say there's no outcry - this is an issue coming up quite often both in the media and in political context. Also, it is not that figures are hard to find - quite the contrary. Harder for sides to agree on figures, but that is to be expected with biased views, agendas and sometimes lacking information on details. Points often contested, other than figures are relevant age and level of participation in violence.

You are about right on the current casualty count, which is indeed regrettable. Seeing as three of the Palestinian casualties are also teenagers, this is somewhat depressingly symbolic of the way both parties continue to bleed each other. I don't think that many (besides right wing Israelis, perhaps) think or say it is ok because Israel is doing that, though.

The Apartheid and Nazi references, although popular, do not necessarily amount to a correct reflection of things. While they do make for catchy headlines and slogans, they are still hyperbole.

Abbas to Haaretz: Netanyahu should denounce deaths of three Palestinian teenagers

RAMALLAH, West Bank — In a conversation with senior Haaretz correspondents ahead of the Israel Conference on Peace in Tel Aviv on July 8, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas said he wanted Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to denounce the killing of three 16-year-old Palestinian boys, who were shot by Israeli soldiers over the past week, just as Abbas himself denounced the kidnapping of the three Israeli youths in Gush Etzion.

“I said the kidnapping was a crime, but does that justify the killing of three Palestinian teens in cold blood?” Abbas asked, adding, “What does Netanyahu have to say about the killings? Does he condemn it? Look at what’s happened all over the West Bank over the past days, the violence and the destruction of homes. Is that justified?”

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.600256

Palestinian death toll at five as West Bank 'street' turns against PA troops

Israeli soldiers killed two Palestinians on Sunday as the West Bank "street" turned angrily against the Palestinian Authority for helping the army in its search for three kidnapped teenagers and its crackdown on Hamas.

On the 10th day of Operation Brother's Keeper, Border Police shot to death Ahmed Fahmawi, 26, in a refugee camp near Nablus overnight after he reportedly charged at the troops. A senior Israel Defense Forces official said later that Fahmawi was mentally unstable.

During a clash in Ramallah, IDF troops shot to death Mahmoud Ismail Attallah, who was standing on a rooftop. The Palestinian death toll in the 10 days of raids and confrontations stands at five.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.600472

Edited July 2, 2014 by Scott

[Jingthing]

...

The Apartheid and Nazi references, although popular, do not necessarily amount to a correct reflection of things. While they do

make for catchy headlines and slogans, they are still hyperbole.

...

Indeed. You put that too diplomatically though, I think. Accusing Jews of being Nazis is part of a well known CODE.

[Morch]

They look like they were decent kids, no doubt anger and emotions are running high, but in my country we hold trials and allow the accused and the prosecution to present evidence. If the evidence is sufficient to warrant a conviction then, and only then, do we exact punishment on the guilty party.

That is what we call "The rule of law".

We don't retaliate through sanctioned military force against anyone loosely affiliated with the accused.

That is not justice.

My sympathies to the boys families.

Patently untrue. Drone attacks?

I do not condone collective punishment. It is evil and pretty useless.

I also doubt that you have a clear idea in regards to lack of evidence, in this case.

That it is not a prefect (or even anything remotely close to perfect) just situation is true.

I never suggested there was a lack of evidence--simply that it was never presented to a Court.

I am confident that Israel had collected evidence just like they had found out the location of the bodies.

As for drone attacks...yes, please forgive me, sometimes my mind takes me back to an America with values that no longer exist. We do have drone attacks today. I find them as distasteful as this action by Israel...except in about 10% of the cases.

Thanks for pointing that out.

Well, the Israeli controlled areas of the West Bank do not, for the most part, fall under civil courts jurisdiction, but are under martial law. While that is not a proper or satisfactory legal system, to say the least, there is some due process - agreed that at times it does resemble a rubber stamp. Additionally, the Israeli legal system allows a lot (perhaps too much, can't say) of "closed doors" proceedings in connection with security matters, and in cases such as this, likely that the argument would be against public exposure as it may hamper operations. Not ideal at all, but then again - not an ordinary situation.

The PA and the Hamas got their own courts, each in its area of control. The PA's are often regarded as corrupt, while Hamas's tend to be harsh. Not sure either is what Palestinians hoped for.

[Morch]

How can you instill any more hatred in someone who celebrates murder of children? As I stated target the houses of the Hamas leadership, they are the ones responsible for the endemic hatred of Jews caused by their insane ideology and broadcast through their media. And yes we do agree on targeted measures.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

I do not refer to a specific instance of collective punishment/house demolition. Aside from the moral issue, there is little evidence

to support that these actions carry substantial gain in either combating terror or changing the mindset of the population.

There are good reasons for the Palestinian to hate the Israelis, and that is not something that's going to go away anytime soon.

If bulldozing a house does not help much in the present, but practically guarantees the impossibility of attitude change (small as

it may be) - it might not be the best policy.

Have a read of an article "searing hypocrisy of the west" concerning the Israeli / Western response to the murdered teenagers. Even though you may not / will not concur with a number of the statements, it's worth reading as it goes give a good insight to a Palestinian Muslim POV.

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/the-searing-hypocrisy-of-the-west/article6163918.ece

Read that earlier and was not overwhelmingly surprised nor impressed.

Susan Abulhawa got a way with words, and I did like her novel.

She does emotion real well, not so great when it comes to facts.

A lot of lumping there - both of issues, facts and conjectures.

Not going to post a complete review of this, as it will just derail the topic.

But you're always welcome to an argument in PM

[Morch]

Sad news for Israel and my heart goes out to the families of those murdered boys. But 400 arrests of Palestinians? How many Israelis were held accountable for the 1383 Palestinians murdered in 2008, 333 of which children?

Israel is no better than other terrorist organisations in the world, Al Qaida, isis, boko haram, etc etc etc. Such action is disgraceful, disgusting , unacceptable behaviour. Unfortunately they control much of the world economy so everyone turns a blind eye. shame as America....or more accurately Right wing Christian America will always back them up.

Many of those arrested are known Hamas members in the West Bank. Some were released as a result of the deal made after the last kidnapping. It is interesting to note that the PA does not make too much noise over this issue, as it suits them just fine that Israel curtails some of the Hamas power in the areas they control.

The 2008 reference, while be a nice defection is a bit more complicated than your simplified one liner. Have a read about the different casualty figures and issues relevant to their interpretation - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Gaza_War The rest is, again, hyperbole and conspiracy theory with racist undertones.

[umbanda]

And Israel keep building on invaded territory.....It is not justification for killings...but still a provocation...

Edited July 12, 2014 by metisdead
Bold font removed again. Please stop using bold font when posting.

[vogie]

Sorry to hear about this...Other excuse for Israeli terrorists to destroy Palestinian life's and property. Hope to see the day Palestinians live free in their own country.

Whats left of their own country!

[Jingthing]

The blame for the lack of a two state solution (at this point, maybe NEVER) is to be found on BOTH SIDES.

[midas]

The blame for the lack of a two state solution (at this point, maybe NEVER) is to be found on BOTH SIDES.

Having a truly impartial umpire might be a good beginning

[Jingthing]

The blame for the lack of a two state solution (at this point, maybe NEVER) is to be found on BOTH SIDES.

Having a truly impartial umpire might be a good beginning

It's not a football game. Good luck with that.

[midas]

The blame for the lack of a two state solution (at this point, maybe NEVER) is to be found on BOTH SIDES.

Having a truly impartial umpire might be a good beginning

It's not a football game. Good luck with that.

Call it “ Peace broker “ then? What ever you call it's a farce to think America can carry out this role.

Edited July 1, 2014 by midas

[webfact]

Israel vows Hamas will pay for dead teens
Hazel Ward

JERUSALEM: -- Israel has vowed to hunt down the Hamas militants who kidnapped and killed three teenagers, but was likely to carefully weigh its response to avoid triggering a regional conflagration.

As further details emerged about the fate of the three youngsters whose bodies were found in the southern West Bank on Monday evening, Israel said it would not rest until it finds those behind their kidnap and murder.

But despite extensive Israeli air strikes on Gaza overnight, no one was killed, with Israel's military establishment and cabinet heavyweights backing a more moderate response over isolated calls for a major operation in the strip.

The disappearance of two 16-year-olds and a 19-year-old from a roadside in the southern West Bank on June 12 and the hunt for their kidnappers had gripped the Israeli public, triggering an outpouring of public grief and anger.

The discovery of their bodies was given blanket coverage across all media outlets. "The bitter end" read the headline in Yediot Aharonot, while the pro-government Israel Hayom led on "Cut down in their youth".

Full story: http://news.theage.com.au/breaking-news-world/israel-vows-hamas-will-pay-for-dead-teens-20140701-3b5o5.html


-- The Age 2014-07-01

[Ulysses G.]

Sorry to hear about this...Other excuse for Israeli terrorists to destroy Palestinian life's and property. Hope to see the day Palestinians live free in their own country.

Whats left of their own country!

They never - ever - had their own country, but they could have if they had accepted the UN solution and not declared war on the people who did.

When was any Arab Palestine founded and by whom?

What were its borders?

What was its capital?

What were its major cities?

Who was the Palestinian leader before Yasser Arafat?

Kidnapping innocent teenagers and murdering them is not going to help them get their own country any faster.

Edited July 1, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Morch]

And Israel keep building on invaded territory.....It is not justification for killings...but still a provocation...

Yes. Some right wing parties calling for more of this as a "response" to the kidnapping and murder or the three.

Can't say I like the loonies on either side.

[Steely Dan]

And Israel keep building on invaded territory.....It is not justification for killings...but still a provocation...

Was the territory not 'invaded' pre 1967 when Jordan occupied the West Bank and Egypt occupied Gaza? But it's only a provocation when Israel controls it. Indeed were it not for the one million Jews expelled from Arab lands post 1967 then perhaps the pressure on Israel to house it's population would be somewhat less.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[simple1]

How can you instill any more hatred in someone who celebrates murder of children? As I stated target the houses of the Hamas leadership, they are the ones responsible for the endemic hatred of Jews caused by their insane ideology and broadcast through their media. And yes we do agree on targeted measures.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

I do not refer to a specific instance of collective punishment/house demolition. Aside from the moral issue, there is little evidence

to support that these actions carry substantial gain in either combating terror or changing the mindset of the population.

There are good reasons for the Palestinian to hate the Israelis, and that is not something that's going to go away anytime soon.

If bulldozing a house does not help much in the present, but practically guarantees the impossibility of attitude change (small as

it may be) - it might not be the best policy.

Have a read of an article "searing hypocrisy of the west" concerning the Israeli / Western response to the murdered teenagers. Even though you may not / will not concur with a number of the statements, it's worth reading as it goes give a good insight to a Palestinian Muslim POV.

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/the-searing-hypocrisy-of-the-west/article6163918.ece

Read that earlier and was not overwhelmingly surprised nor impressed. Susan Abulhawa got a way with words, and I did like her novel.

She does emotion real well, not so great when it comes to facts. A lot of lumping there - both of issues, facts and conjectures.

Not going to post a complete review of this, as it will just derail the topic. But you're always welcome to an argument in PM

Not interested in a debate on the article, for me intersting to read a view that for me was "different" that some people may like to take a look

[Cat ji]

Yes. Some right wing parties calling for more of this as a "response" to the kidnapping and murder or the three.

Can't say I like the loonies on either side.

Loonies who defend themselves from barbarians.

i suppose the Spaniards who kicked them out after few hundred years awere also loonies.

On the other hand, the "loony-ised" Britain will go under.

[Morch]

Sorry to hear about this...Other excuse for Israeli terrorists to destroy Palestinian life's and property. Hope to see the day Palestinians live free in their own country.

Whats left of their own country!

They never - ever - had their own country, but they could have if they had accepted the UN solution and not declared war on the people who did.

When was any Arab Palestine founded and by whom?

What were its borders?

What was its capital?

What were its major cities?

Who was the Palestinian leader before Yasser Arafat?

Kidnapping innocent teenagers and murdering them is not going to help them get their own country any faster.

And just where was the state of Israel before the British gave away Palestinian land to them to create the state of Israel ?

The Israelis have carried out over 40 bombing raids since and all on men, women and children who had nothing to do with the murder of these young men but simply as a collective punishment and the world as always just allows them to get away with it and neither condemns it or stops it

The Nazi's of the 21st century is an apt comparission

Disregarding the learned historical argument....

While the air raids on Gaza Strip were intensified this is only partially connected to the kidnapping.

Rocket fire from Gaza Strip was quite frequent on June, even before the kidnapping - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2014#June

The main reason for this has to do with issues pertaining to problems with the Palestinian reconciliation and unification

agreement. Hamas is at an economic low point, having trouble paying government and municipal officials. The PA was

supposed to pick up the tab, but did not. Hence, a lot of people unhappy in Gaza, and things getting worse for Hamas

with Islamic Jihad organizations taking the piss and calling them softies for going along with the more Israel-tolerant PA.

Events in Iraq contributed as well for Islamic Jihad prestige and things got out of hand.

The right wing element in the Israeli government wished to score points so some action vs. the Hamas, fueled by public

anger over the kidnapping is just up their alley. In short, extremists on both sides do their best to encourage continued

hostilities and violence.

The air raids, as far as I'm aware, did not result in severe casualties on the Palestinian side, and no, the Nazis are not an

apt comparison, unless you're a member of the hyperbole brigade.

[Morch]

Yes. Some right wing parties calling for more of this as a "response" to the kidnapping and murder or the three.

Can't say I like the loonies on either side.

Loonies who defend themselves from barbarians.

i suppose the Spaniards who kicked them out after few hundred years awere also loonies.

On the other hand, the "loony-ised" Britain will go under.

The Spaniards actually kicked out both Jews and Muslims.....could be on to something there.

When I say loonies I mean extremists of both sides, no particular liking to either.

The UK's silly immigration policy and PC attitude is another matter.

Edited July 1, 2014 by Morch

[Morch]

Have a read of an article "searing hypocrisy of the west" concerning the Israeli / Western response to the murdered teenagers. Even though you may not / will not concur with a number of the statements, it's worth reading as it goes give a good insight to a Palestinian Muslim POV.

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/the-searing-hypocrisy-of-the-west/article6163918.ece

Read that earlier and was not overwhelmingly surprised nor impressed. Susan Abulhawa got a way with words, and I did like her novel.

She does emotion real well, not so great when it comes to facts. A lot of lumping there - both of issues, facts and conjectures.

Not going to post a complete review of this, as it will just derail the topic. But you're always welcome to an argument in PM

Not interested in a debate on the article, for me intersting to read a view that for me was "different" that some people may like to take a look

Alright, I just don't see anything innovative or very thought provoking in the article.

Could be down to reading quite a lot of similar things.

My beef with writers like Abulhawa is that they go for the emotional angle, in favor of facts.

Emotions are not to be disregarded or looked down upon, they are important in understanding perceptions.

The thing is that when an author misuses (or is it abuses?) facts in order to magnify an emotional response, well..

Like I said - found her novel moving, her articles and lectures less so.

[Ulysses G.]

Alright, I just don't see anything innovative or very thought provoking in the article.

It is completely taken out of context as to how the Palestinians themselves caused most of the problems that she is complaining about. In general, they refuse to take responsibility for their own situation.

Edited July 1, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Morch]

Alright, I just don't see anything innovative or very thought provoking in the article.

It is completely taken out of context as to how the Palestinians themselves caused most of the problems that she is complaining about. They never take responsibility for their own situation.

Well, without getting too much into the content of the article and breaking the suspense - somewhat true.

The issues I had with it were more to do with lumping unrelated incidents and events just to make a point,

harping on some imagined general Western stance toward Israel which does not exist in reality and mostly

not coming up with any new perceptions or new thinking about how this conflict could be realistically solved.

However, her novel, Mornings in Jenin - well worth reading. Better humane perspective on this mess and a

good story to boot.

[capcc76]

I do not refer to a specific instance of collective punishment/house demolition. Aside from the moral issue, there is little evidence

to support that these actions carry substantial gain in either combating terror or changing the mindset of the population.

There are good reasons for the Palestinian to hate the Israelis, and that is not something that's going to go away anytime soon.

If bulldozing a house does not help much in the present, but practically guarantees the impossibility of attitude change (small as

it may be) - it might not be the best policy.

Have a read of an article "searing hypocrisy of the west" concerning the Israeli / Western response to the murdered teenagers. Even though you may not / will not concur with a number of the statements, it's worth reading as it goes give a good insight to a Palestinian Muslim POV.

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/the-searing-hypocrisy-of-the-west/article6163918.ece

Read that earlier and was not overwhelmingly surprised nor impressed. Susan Abulhawa got a way with words, and I did like her novel.

She does emotion real well, not so great when it comes to facts. A lot of lumping there - both of issues, facts and conjectures.

Not going to post a complete review of this, as it will just derail the topic. But you're always welcome to an argument in PM

Not interested in a debate on the article, for me intersting to read a view that for me was "different" that some people may like to take a look

As evidenced on here, some people have the point of view that an old man having sexual relations with a 13 and 14 year old child is okay. Just because a differing point of view may exist does not make it right or an accurate reflection of reality.

Edited July 1, 2014 by capcc76

[NeverSure]

Sorry to hear about this...Other excuse for Israeli terrorists to destroy Palestinian life's and property. Hope to see the day Palestinians live free in their own country.

Whats left of their own country!

They never - ever - had their own country, but they could have if they had accepted the UN solution and not declared war on the people who did.

When was any Arab Palestine founded and by whom?

What were its borders?

What was its capital?

What were its major cities?

Who was the Palestinian leader before Yasser Arafat?

Kidnapping innocent teenagers and murdering them is not going to help them get their own country any faster.

To answer your questions, there never were "Palestinians" until they named themselves that after WWII. There was a large area called Palestine that included other countries including Israel.

The Palestinians are frauds. They are actually the Philistines who were outcasts even among Arabs and were stateless nomadic wanderers. The Arabs accept them now only as straw men who carry out acts of terrorism against Israel.

If the Philistines had just settled into land they were given, and lived peacefully instead of receiving and using terrorist aid given by other terrorist nations, they would have had a good life.

But terrorists do what terrorists do.

[Diablo Bob]

Sorry to hear about this...Other excuse for Israeli terrorists to destroy Palestinian life's and property. Hope to see the day Palestinians live free in their own country.

Whats left of their own country!

They never - ever - had their own country, but they could have if they had accepted the UN solution and not declared war on the people who did.

When was any Arab Palestine founded and by whom?

What were its borders?

What was its capital?

What were its major cities?

Who was the Palestinian leader before Yasser Arafat?

Kidnapping innocent teenagers and murdering them is not going to help them get their own country any faster.

To answer your questions, there never were "Palestinians" until they named themselves that after WWII. There was a large area called Palestine that included other countries including Israel.

The Palestinians are frauds. They are actually the Philistines who were outcasts even among Arabs and were stateless nomadic wanderers. The Arabs accept them now only as straw men who carry out acts of terrorism against Israel.

If the Philistines had just settled into land they were given, and lived peacefully instead of receiving and using terrorist aid given by other terrorist nations, they would have had a good life.

But terrorists do what terrorists do.

Never Sure,

I normally support most of your view and agree with many of your stances.

Not this time....

First off, the term Palsestinian predates WWII, the first use of the term Palestiniian in a nationalist concept was in 1922 when the first demand for national independence of the Levant was issued by the Syrian–Palestinian Congress. Israel is the new kid on the block..... 1948 they were awarded independene by the UN, Palestine had been there since 5 B.C.

Your reference to the Philistines, well the actual spelling is Filistan, which is Arabic for Palestine. Let's face it, most Arabs came from nomadic wanderering tribes. That being said, everything was quite peacefull in Palestine up until 1948, and this is with a significant Jewish population. Yes there was some terrorism, not Palestinian but Jewish. Mainly the Brits were the target.

1948 changed the dynamics, massive Jewish influx from Europe.

The land they were given, was taken away from them and the Palestinian population was put into refugee camps, this was in the 50's and you know what, many of these families are still in refugee camps today, 65 years later.

And we wonder what the problem is?

When King Ibn Saud was told of the UN plan to create Israel he said, "Why give the Jews Palestine, give them part of Germany, they created the problem!"

[NeverSure]

Whats left of their own country!

They never - ever - had their own country, but they could have if they had accepted the UN solution and not declared war on the people who did.

When was any Arab Palestine founded and by whom?

What were its borders?

What was its capital?

What were its major cities?

Who was the Palestinian leader before Yasser Arafat?

Kidnapping innocent teenagers and murdering them is not going to help them get their own country any faster.

To answer your questions, there never were "Palestinians" until they named themselves that after WWII. There was a large area called Palestine that included other countries including Israel.

The Palestinians are frauds. They are actually the Philistines who were outcasts even among Arabs and were stateless nomadic wanderers. The Arabs accept them now only as straw men who carry out acts of terrorism against Israel.

If the Philistines had just settled into land they were given, and lived peacefully instead of receiving and using terrorist aid given by other terrorist nations, they would have had a good life.

But terrorists do what terrorists do.

Never Sure,

I normally support most of your view and agree with many of your stances.

Not this time....

First off, the term Palsestinian predates WWII, the first use of the term Palestiniian in a nationalist concept was in 1922 when the first demand for national independence of the Levant was issued by the Syrian–Palestinian Congress. Israel is the new kid on the block..... 1948 they were awarded independene by the UN, Palestine had been there since 5 B.C.

Your reference to the Philistines, well the actual spelling is Filistan, which is Arabic for Palestine. Let's face it, most Arabs came from nomadic wanderering tribes. That being said, everything was quite peacefull in Palestine up until 1948, and this is with a significant Jewish population. Yes there was some terrorism, not Palestinian but Jewish. Mainly the Brits were the target.

1948 changed the dynamics, massive Jewish influx from Europe.

The land they were given, was taken away from them and the Palestinian population was put into refugee camps, this was in the 50's and you know what, many of these families are still in refugee camps today, 65 years later.

And we wonder what the problem is?

When King Ibn Saud was told of the UN plan to create Israel he said, "Why give the Jews Palestine, give them part of Germany, they created the problem!"

Well, you have part of it right. But even going with your belief that the first use of the word Palestinian was less than 100 years ago, we can still conclude that it is a made-up term, and not part of the history of Palestine.

Even then, it wasn't being applied to the frauds who now call themselves Palestinians. They are Philistines.

Israel is the new kid on the block?? They occupied their land for a few millennia until they were defeated and run off about 2,000 years ago. After WWII the UN gave them back their homeland.

In the 6 day war in 1967, Israel recaptured The Wall, The Temple Site, and Old Jerusalem. This of course is very vexing to Muslims who built that temple. It is widely believed that this temple site is "holy" to the Jews and was the site of the Jewish temple mentioned in writings 2,000 years ago.

So you have both the Muslims and the Jews strongly convinced that this site is central to their religion, and neither will give up. The Philistines have become the straw man for the Muslims to try to shake Israel loose. Of course there's also Hamas and others.

They'll never knock Israel out of there. See the 6 day war. Israel goes in hard a furiously, and is better equipped and better trained that all of the Arab countries and Iran (Persia) put together. Israel just demonstrated that they have no fear (or credible resistance) to flying into such as Syria and bombing what they wish.

Peace.

[Diablo Bob]

To answer your questions, there never were "Palestinians" until they named themselves that after WWII. There was a large area called Palestine that included other countries including Israel.

The Palestinians are frauds. They are actually the Philistines who were outcasts even among Arabs and were stateless nomadic wanderers. The Arabs accept them now only as straw men who carry out acts of terrorism against Israel.

If the Philistines had just settled into land they were given, and lived peacefully instead of receiving and using terrorist aid given by other terrorist nations, they would have had a good life.

But terrorists do what terrorists do.

Never Sure,

I normally support most of your view and agree with many of your stances.

Not this time....

First off, the term Palsestinian predates WWII, the first use of the term Palestiniian in a nationalist concept was in 1922 when the first demand for national independence of the Levant was issued by the Syrian–Palestinian Congress. Israel is the new kid on the block..... 1948 they were awarded independene by the UN, Palestine had been there since 5 B.C.

Your reference to the Philistines, well the actual spelling is Filistan, which is Arabic for Palestine. Let's face it, most Arabs came from nomadic wanderering tribes. That being said, everything was quite peacefull in Palestine up until 1948, and this is with a significant Jewish population. Yes there was some terrorism, not Palestinian but Jewish. Mainly the Brits were the target.

1948 changed the dynamics, massive Jewish influx from Europe.

The land they were given, was taken away from them and the Palestinian population was put into refugee camps, this was in the 50's and you know what, many of these families are still in refugee camps today, 65 years later.

And we wonder what the problem is?

When King Ibn Saud was told of the UN plan to create Israel he said, "Why give the Jews Palestine, give them part of Germany, they created the problem!"

Well, you have part of it right. But even going with your belief that the first use of the word Palestinian was less than 100 years ago, we can still conclude that it is a made-up term, and not part of the history of Palestine.

Even then, it wasn't being applied to the frauds who now call themselves Palestinians. They are Philistines.

Israel is the new kid on the block?? They occupied their land for a few millennia until they were defeated and run off about 2,000 years ago. After WWII the UN gave them back their homeland.

In the 6 day war in 1967, Israel recaptured The Wall, The Temple Site, and Old Jerusalem. This of course is very vexing to Muslims who built that temple. It is widely believed that this temple site is "holy" to the Jews and was the site of the Jewish temple mentioned in writings 2,000 years ago.

So you have both the Muslims and the Jews strongly convinced that this site is central to their religion, and neither will give up. The Philistines have become the straw man for the Muslims to try to shake Israel loose. Of course there's also Hamas and others.

They'll never knock Israel out of there. See the 6 day war. Israel goes in hard a furiously, and is better equipped and better trained that all of the Arab countries and Iran (Persia) put together. Israel just demonstrated that they have no fear (or credible resistance) to flying into such as Syria and bombing what they wish.

Peace.

Don't confuse the Kingdom of Israel with present day Israel..... two different animals, similar names. Israel is the new kid on the block!

By your own words, "They occupied their land for a few millennia until they were defeated and run off about 2,000 years ago" and "After WWII the UN gave them back their homeland".....what is the legal justification for the seizure of the Palestine lands? What claim did the Jewish people have on this land? I don't think that a Holy scripture for a minority religion will pass muster!. I would think that over 2000 years they abdicated whatever claim they might have thought they had.

[Pralaad]

........Hamas DENIED involvement........

Hamas has neither confirmed nor denied involvement.

[ClutchClark]

They look like they were decent kids, no doubt anger and emotions are running high, but in my country we hold trials and allow the accused and the prosecution to present evidence. If the evidence is sufficient to warrant a conviction then, and only then, do we exact punishment on the guilty party.

That is what we call "The rule of law".

We don't retaliate through sanctioned military force against anyone loosely affiliated with the accused.

That is not justice.

My sympathies to the boys families.

Patently untrue. Drone attacks?

I do not condone collective punishment. It is evil and pretty useless.

I also doubt that you have a clear idea in regards to lack of evidence, in this case.

That it is not a prefect (or even anything remotely close to perfect) just situation is true.

I never suggested there was a lack of evidence--simply that it was never presented to a Court.

I am confident that Israel had collected evidence just like they had found out the location of the bodies.

As for drone attacks...yes, please forgive me, sometimes my mind takes me back to an America with values that no longer exist. We do have drone attacks today. I find them as distasteful as this action by Israel...except in about 10% of the cases.

Thanks for pointing that out.

Well, the Israeli controlled areas of the West Bank do not, for the most part, fall under civil courts jurisdiction, but are under

martial law. While that is not a proper or satisfactory legal system, to say the least, there is some due process - agreed that

at times it does resemble a rubber stamp. Additionally, the Israeli legal system allows a lot (perhaps too much, can't say) of

"closed doors" proceedings in connection with security matters, and in cases such as this, likely that the argument would be

against public exposure as it may hamper operations. Not ideal at all, but then again - not an ordinary situation.

The PA and the Hamas got their own courts, each in its area of control. The PA's are often regarded as corrupt, while Hamas's

tend to be harsh. Not sure either is what Palestinians hoped for.

Thanks for all of this information.