Long timers - Is Thailand better or worse than 10 years ago?

[claffey]

You raise many valid points and i am sure venting it out helps.

You have only experienced half of the problems, there are more when you have a business.

For example i am renewing my extension, keep in mind its my 7th year with WP.

First they want me to make photo's of myself with all the staff, then they want to come for check up.

So if you coming for check up, why the hell do you want the pics?

Fine, do the pics.

Now they want me to come into Immigration to take my photo, but you have my photo already with application and many photo's with my staff.

No, they need to put my photo in computer, so i need to come.

Ok, i go there, make the photo.

Oh solly, we do not need your photo, i forget, your income is over 1 million baht, so no photo is needed.

I am always short of staff, basically because i do not want any of my customers to have the experience you had with True.

So today have a 46 year old, uni educated woman come for interview.

In the advert is says must read, write and speak good English.

She is told to come for interview at 3pm, she shows up at 11am

Cleaner tells her interviews are at 3pm.

She comes back at 2:30 pm and as it turns out can hardly string 2 words in English, mind you in her resume she states she worked in India and Dubai for a decade.

I seriously doubt she spoke HIndi or Arabic.

Anyhow, after seeing that she can not string 2 words in English, i tell her no, give her back her documents and cut up her application.

She is standing there looking at me like a sheep.

After 5 or so mins she asks if i will interview her?(i guess first sign of being retarded) i reply, no i will not.

Now she tells me but the lady(cleaner) told her blah blah blah.

Now i am pissed off and can no longer take the stupidity, so i ask her how old are you? She reply 46 after thinking for a minute.

Great i say, 46, do you have anything inside your head? meaning do you have any brains at all.

After thinking for another minute or so, she replies, NO.

So i double check what she says, and ask her again,, You do not have any brain?

Response was, No, i do not, its hot outside.

So the moral of the story is , it is not only you , but many others feel or experience the same thing.

NO doubt, many esteemed members married to good girls half their age, living in Isaan never experience much of it, for obvious reasons,

Is it better or worse? I guess it depends on what angle you look at it from.

PS. Forgot to mention, i am in Thailand full time for around 12 years, out of which 7 in the business

What a disgusting and unprofessional thing to do to a candidate. You clearly have no heart.Why not gently let her leave and laugh behind her back. You're lucky she didn't return with a knife and cut you up....

[Jessi]

To the OP, I am not going to ripp into you in fact I agree with everything you say......The smile has always been fake. They don't want foreigners here they only want your money.

[claffey]

I've been in the UK a year and let me tell you that old blighty is just as bad for bureaucracy as anywhere I've been including China and Thailand. I have just spent four months trying to get some retard in HMRC send a correct tax code to my Payroll.Yes, four months.Countless phone calls, emails and time wasted.Not to mention the cost of the phone calls which took,on average, forty minutes to even answer!! I've had problems with gas companies and electricity companies too....This was all on top of a visa application for my Thai wife that took six months to process! The mountain of paperwork required for that was ridiculous. Anyway, I'm not replying to complain about the UK.I'm trying to say that don't imagine that returning home will remove all the stress from such encounters. Whats great about Thai is the fact that everything is done with a smile and a nod. What I love about Thai is the unpredictability. Anything can happen..In the UK and Europe everyone follows the rules and processes. In Thai life is unpredictable and therefore exciting..I'm moving back to Thai in a few months with a one way ticket and I'm never leaving again..Dont leave.Go to Krabi or somewhere for a month or two and relax...

[benalibina]

I've been in the UK a year and let me tell you that old blighty is just as bad for bureaucracy as anywhere I've been including China and Thailand. I have just spent four months trying to get some retard in HMRC send a correct tax code to my Payroll.Yes, four months.Countless phone calls, emails and time wasted.Not to mention the cost of the phone calls which took,on average, forty minutes to even answer!! I've had problems with gas companies and electricity companies too....This was all on top of a visa application for my Thai wife that took six months to process! The mountain of paperwork required for that was ridiculous. Anyway, I'm not replying to complain about the UK.I'm trying to say that don't imagine that returning home will remove all the stress from such encounters. Whats great about Thai is the fact that everything is done with a smile and a nod. What I love about Thai is the unpredictability. Anything can happen..In the UK and Europe everyone follows the rules and processes. In Thai life is unpredictable and therefore exciting..I'm moving back to Thai in a few months with a one way ticket and I'm never leaving again..Dont leave.Go to Krabi or somewhere for a month or two and relax...

Unpredictability....anything can happen. Yes, thats nice and exciting....unless you come to the wrong side of the coin....beware then. You are only farang...nothing more.

[claffey]

Thailand has changed, Bangkok used to be a discrete (in the geographical sense !) city, now it's a sprawling urban region occupying a zone a couple-of-hundred miles across, and has consumed places like Ayuttaya or Pattaya, and many more people live in concrete-jungle dormitory-blocks or work in offices/factories & call it progress. Shudder ! I simply avoid the place whenever-possible !

But Thais (and other 3rd-worlders) have the right to enjoy 'progress', and will IMO eventually discover that it's not all it's cracked-up to be, give it a century & they might even come to value the quieter rural-life, like us Brits ! The current rise in cmping/cycling/domestic-tourism

So just pick the right part of Thailand to live in, to match what you're now looking-for, Samui was no-doubt excellent for a two-year-drunk on first arrival ... but now you've grown beyond that.

I enjoy life in a small (but doubled-in-size over a decade) village, with views of the mountains, and a full-service city (Chiang Mai) within 30-minutes drive. That's what suits me, at this stage of life !

Others go totally-rural & live in places like Chiang Rai or Isaan. Perhaps that's a step too far ?

My own occasional-need for bright-lights or a really-well-stocked supermarket or an island-beach are satisfied by holidays, either within Thailand or back to Auld Eng-er-laanndd, which incidentally is also no-longer the place I recall from my youth ! In particular it appears to be now inhabited by fat thick frumpy people, even by my own low standards, and I miss the stylish attractive petite smiling eye-candy everywhere, which is such a joy here ! NB ... if you don't agree, just visit a doctor/hospital, as you may have died & not yet noticed !

Perhaps, rather than changing place, the discomfort felt by the OP is due to an approaching change-in-lifestyle ? Could it perhaps be time to settle down, with some agreeable female person, and have & raise a family ?

Whatever, IMO the OP needs to get himself slightly-more organised. Immigration anywhere can be a pain, if you haven't got the right visa for your lifestyle, bills left unpaid anywhere will result in withdrawl-of-service, when you travel for a month rather than the usual week. Problem & solution identified, there.

Good luck to the OP, and feel free to vent or let-of-steam on TV, it beats joining the Pattaya (or Rotherham, or North-Devon) Flying-Club !

Thailand is not a Third World country.This idea of ranking countries into first, second and third world is a western imperialistic concept and totally irrelevant in a modern global society. Bangkok is one of the most modern cities in Asia and the world.... Drive through dreary Birmingham or any other UK city (except Central London) and compare it to Bangkok!You can't, but people like you will always view the world through an imperialistic prism....

[claffey]

I've been in the UK a year and let me tell you that old blighty is just as bad for bureaucracy as anywhere I've been including China and Thailand. I have just spent four months trying to get some retard in HMRC send a correct tax code to my Payroll.Yes, four months.Countless phone calls, emails and time wasted.Not to mention the cost of the phone calls which took,on average, forty minutes to even answer!! I've had problems with gas companies and electricity companies too....This was all on top of a visa application for my Thai wife that took six months to process! The mountain of paperwork required for that was ridiculous. Anyway, I'm not replying to complain about the UK.I'm trying to say that don't imagine that returning home will remove all the stress from such encounters. Whats great about Thai is the fact that everything is done with a smile and a nod. What I love about Thai is the unpredictability. Anything can happen..In the UK and Europe everyone follows the rules and processes. In Thai life is unpredictable and therefore exciting..I'm moving back to Thai in a few months with a one way ticket and I'm never leaving again..Dont leave.Go to Krabi or somewhere for a month or two and relax...

Unpredictability....anything can happen. Yes, thats nice and exciting....unless you come to the wrong side of the coin....beware then. You are only farang...nothing more.

If your sensible and willing to adapt to the quirks of Thai culture you shouldn't find yourself on the wrong side of the coin.And if you do, you should always have an emergency nest egg hidden away to get you started again....I'm an Irishman living in UK and I will always be a foreigner here too. As are all the English people living in Ireland. People comment on my Irish accent on a daily basis. Not much different than being a farang in Thai really.Point is we are all foreigners unless we are at home!!!And treated as such....

[MJP]

I've been in the UK a year and let me tell you that old blighty is just as bad for bureaucracy as anywhere I've been including China and Thailand. I have just spent four months trying to get some retard in HMRC send a correct tax code to my Payroll.Yes, four months.Countless phone calls, emails and time wasted.Not to mention the cost of the phone calls which took,on average, forty minutes to even answer!! I've had problems with gas companies and electricity companies too....This was all on top of a visa application for my Thai wife that took six months to process! The mountain of paperwork required for that was ridiculous. Anyway, I'm not replying to complain about the UK.I'm trying to say that don't imagine that returning home will remove all the stress from such encounters. Whats great about Thai is the fact that everything is done with a smile and a nod. What I love about Thai is the unpredictability. Anything can happen..In the UK and Europe everyone follows the rules and processes. In Thai life is unpredictable and therefore exciting..I'm moving back to Thai in a few months with a one way ticket and I'm never leaving again..Dont leave.Go to Krabi or somewhere for a month or two and relax...

Unpredictability....anything can happen. Yes, thats nice and exciting....unless you come to the wrong side of the coin....beware then. You are only farang...nothing more.

If your sensible and willing to adapt to the quirks of Thai culture you shouldn't find yourself on the wrong side of the coin.And if you do, you should always have an emergency nest egg hidden away to get you started again....I'm an Irishman living in UK and I will always be a foreigner here too. As are all the English people living in Ireland. People comment on my Irish accent on a daily basis. Not much different than being a farang in Thai really.Point is we are all foreigners unless we are at home!!!And treated as such....

Claffey, try being from the West Country working in London. I used to get the same. Having spent 20 years working in the likes of Essex I've picked up the accent, combined it with the Zommerzet accent and now sound utterly ridiculous.

By the way . . . . Ouim' gonna tarmak yur droive!

[benalibina]

@Claffey

A very naive statement. Dont worry though, i thought the same as you before. Not so much anymore.

Sorry, something went wrong when quoted ur post.

[JAFO]

Thailand can be an awesome place to live and enjoy a nice life but you have to plan it as such. I never went all in. I spend time back in the US and return home to Thailand. My wife does not care much for the U.S at all. We get a fill of what we need and exit. While people debate this over and over on this site, my money typically goes 6-8x further than it would in the U.S. and I have way less constraints to my personal freedom. If all people can complain about is having to check in, move to the U.S. I think your view would change dramatically.

"...my money typically goes 6-8x further than it would in the U.S."

The topic is about better or worse over 10 years. Your statement today of course isn't true. For it to be true, you'd need to have $1,000 month buy as much in Thailand as would 6 - 8,000 in the US. There are SO many reasons that's not true. For one thing, there is so much difference in the quality of what you could buy in Thailand as opposed to the US.

Why don't you buy THIS house just outside of Atlanta Georgia for less than 2.5 mil bht, and own the land? Full blown Western kitchen, 2 Western baths, 1st world underground utilities with safe drinking water and uncensored blazing fast internet. Garage, safe water, sanitary sewer...

And you get almost 4 rai that's all yours.

Almost every manufactured consumer item will be much cheaper as will quality food.

Thailand used to be a lot cheaper IF you settled for Thai standards in everything. I don't think that's true today. Not at all.

Not to debate this with you, I live my life and I live quite comfortable and while generilizations always surface, I track costs frequently and most are exactly what I stated(Again for me and my living life style). As for owning the land,(without laughing too much) very few own the land or house in the US, the banks do. 95% are tied up in 30 year loans or 30 due in 5 ARMs's hoping they can keep their job. In the end you will pay 2X in interest over the term of the loan than the actual house and land are worth. As for me, I do not care if I do not own the land. People whine about that constantly. Its a moot point. Its no different then renting IMHO. I will say it has been a great feeling not having a bank always looking at me with their hand out, pay up or we will take it back. If I stayed in the U.S I would have to work until I get close to death. Here I am retired and do whatever I want...quite happily mind you.

So lets leave it at that and let the thread go back to original question. I apologize my post took it off on a tangent. I made my comments based on my experience. Sure I miss the days when the Baht converted at 36-39 but that's OK. I planned for that. A visit to the US is all I need to remind me as I see my friends working round the clock trying to save and make ends meet. I will pass.

Edited July 4, 2014 by JAFO

[MJP]

Thailand can be an awesome place to live and enjoy a nice life but you have to plan it as such. I never went all in. I spend time back in the US and return home to Thailand. My wife does not care much for the U.S at all. We get a fill of what we need and exit. While people debate this over and over on this site, my money typically goes 6-8x further than it would in the U.S. and I have way less constraints to my personal freedom. If all people can complain about is having to check in, move to the U.S. I think your view would change dramatically.

"...my money typically goes 6-8x further than it would in the U.S."

The topic is about better or worse over 10 years. Your statement today of course isn't true. For it to be true, you'd need to have $1,000 month buy as much in Thailand as would 6 - 8,000 in the US. There are SO many reasons that's not true. For one thing, there is so much difference in the quality of what you could buy in Thailand as opposed to the US.

Why don't you buy THIS house just outside of Atlanta Georgia for less than 2.5 mil bht, and own the land? Full blown Western kitchen, 2 Western baths, 1st world underground utilities with safe drinking water and uncensored blazing fast internet. Garage, safe water, sanitary sewer...

And you get almost 4 rai that's all yours.

Almost every manufactured consumer item will be much cheaper as will quality food.

Thailand used to be a lot cheaper IF you settled for Thai standards in everything. I don't think that's true today. Not at all.

Not to debate this with you, I live my life and I live quite comfortable and while generilizations always surface, I track costs frequently and most are exactly what I stated(Again for me and my living life style). As for owning the land,(without laughing too much) very few own the land or house in the US, the banks do. 95% are tied up in 30 year loans or 30 due in 5 ARMs's hoping they can keep their job. In the end you will pay 2X in interest over the term of the loan than the actual house and land are worth. As for me, I do not care if I do not own the land. People whine about that constantly. Its a moot point. Its no different then renting IMHO. I will say it has been a great feeling not having a bank always looking at me with their hand out, pay up or we will take it back. If I stayed in the U.S I would have to work until I get close to death. Here I am retired and do whatever I want...quite happily mind you.

So lets leave it at that and let the thread go back to original question. I apologize my post took it off on a tangent. I made my comments based on my experience. Sure I miss the days when the Baht converted at 36-39 but that's OK. I planned for that. A visit to the US is all I need to remind me as I see my friends working round the clock trying to save and make ends meet. I will pass.

I think it was Hillary Clinton that observed that due to land/property taxes no one actually owned the land they thought they did. Unless you keep paying those taxes demanded of you the land/property can be taken from you by the state.

Can't find link.

Edited July 4, 2014 by MJP

[NeverSure]

Thailand has changed, Bangkok used to be a discrete (in the geographical sense !) city, now it's a sprawling urban region occupying a zone a couple-of-hundred miles across, and has consumed places like Ayuttaya or Pattaya, and many more people live in concrete-jungle dormitory-blocks or work in offices/factories & call it progress. Shudder ! I simply avoid the place whenever-possible !

But Thais (and other 3rd-worlders) have the right to enjoy 'progress', and will IMO eventually discover that it's not all it's cracked-up to be, give it a century & they might even come to value the quieter rural-life, like us Brits ! The current rise in cmping/cycling/domestic-tourism

So just pick the right part of Thailand to live in, to match what you're now looking-for, Samui was no-doubt excellent for a two-year-drunk on first arrival ... but now you've grown beyond that.

I enjoy life in a small (but doubled-in-size over a decade) village, with views of the mountains, and a full-service city (Chiang Mai) within 30-minutes drive. That's what suits me, at this stage of life !

Others go totally-rural & live in places like Chiang Rai or Isaan. Perhaps that's a step too far ?

My own occasional-need for bright-lights or a really-well-stocked supermarket or an island-beach are satisfied by holidays, either within Thailand or back to Auld Eng-er-laanndd, which incidentally is also no-longer the place I recall from my youth ! In particular it appears to be now inhabited by fat thick frumpy people, even by my own low standards, and I miss the stylish attractive petite smiling eye-candy everywhere, which is such a joy here ! NB ... if you don't agree, just visit a doctor/hospital, as you may have died & not yet noticed !

Perhaps, rather than changing place, the discomfort felt by the OP is due to an approaching change-in-lifestyle ? Could it perhaps be time to settle down, with some agreeable female person, and have & raise a family ?

Whatever, IMO the OP needs to get himself slightly-more organised. Immigration anywhere can be a pain, if you haven't got the right visa for your lifestyle, bills left unpaid anywhere will result in withdrawl-of-service, when you travel for a month rather than the usual week. Problem & solution identified, there.

Good luck to the OP, and feel free to vent or let-of-steam on TV, it beats joining the Pattaya (or Rotherham, or North-Devon) Flying-Club !

Thailand is not a Third World country.This idea of ranking countries into first, second and third world is a western imperialistic concept and totally irrelevant in a modern global society. Bangkok is one of the most modern cities in Asia and the world.... Drive through dreary Birmingham or any other UK city (except Central London) and compare it to Bangkok!You can't, but people like you will always view the world through an imperialistic prism....

Sooooooooooooo,

Do you think it's a first world country, second world country, or fourth world country?

[NeverSure]

Right, exactly right.

I love being a hippy crossbred with a hillbilly see. I like to amble about the village wearing raggy clothes on my old puffy chuggy old Honda Click, see some friendly folks. I take the geriatric D-Max into town to the garden centre, fill the truck bed and rear seat with pots and plants and come away £50 poorer.

I like pottering around the dirt roads, going down the farm, bit of low cost creative DIY, doing a bit of photog'ing and taking the kids shopping (actually I hate that bit to be honest).

To live this idealized, highly materialistic existence that's often lauded as the optimum on this very site is, frankly, dull as dishwater and thankfully well beyond my meager fiscal position in this World.

Quite why folk go to live in Thailand just to live the same way they do in the West is beyond me. For me it's about going from a stressful and fraught job (existence) in Blighty to a simple, bucolic and down right idle time under my banana tree.

I can live poor. I love it. But the kids won't do it, so keeping me on the hamster wheel.

Awesome. I can relate. I grew up in the country where nothing was fancy, not even in the nearest towns. The way you put on airs if you had a lot of money was by the price of your boots and your hat. Seriously. People could tell. People who did that were a bit stupid because other people cared more about your farm or ranch than your boots. Imagine your high-end Stetson hat and high end boots being your Rolex, LOL.

There are still a lot of aging hippie enclaves that have been back in the sticks since the '60's and early '70's. In a way they remind me of Thai villages - back in the woods of the USA.

THIS ONE is for real.

Edited July 4, 2014 by NeverSure

[kevozman1]

Thailand has changed, Bangkok used to be a discrete (in the geographical sense !) city, now it's a sprawling urban region occupying a zone a couple-of-hundred miles across, and has consumed places like Ayuttaya or Pattaya, and many more people live in concrete-jungle dormitory-blocks or work in offices/factories & call it progress. Shudder ! I simply avoid the place whenever-possible !

But Thais (and other 3rd-worlders) have the right to enjoy 'progress', and will IMO eventually discover that it's not all it's cracked-up to be, give it a century & they might even come to value the quieter rural-life, like us Brits ! The current rise in cmping/cycling/domestic-tourism

So just pick the right part of Thailand to live in, to match what you're now looking-for, Samui was no-doubt excellent for a two-year-drunk on first arrival ... but now you've grown beyond that.

I enjoy life in a small (but doubled-in-size over a decade) village, with views of the mountains, and a full-service city (Chiang Mai) within 30-minutes drive. That's what suits me, at this stage of life !

Others go totally-rural & live in places like Chiang Rai or Isaan. Perhaps that's a step too far ?

My own occasional-need for bright-lights or a really-well-stocked supermarket or an island-beach are satisfied by holidays, either within Thailand or back to Auld Eng-er-laanndd, which incidentally is also no-longer the place I recall from my youth ! In particular it appears to be now inhabited by fat thick frumpy people, even by my own low standards, and I miss the stylish attractive petite smiling eye-candy everywhere, which is such a joy here ! NB ... if you don't agree, just visit a doctor/hospital, as you may have died & not yet noticed !

Perhaps, rather than changing place, the discomfort felt by the OP is due to an approaching change-in-lifestyle ? Could it perhaps be time to settle down, with some agreeable female person, and have & raise a family ?

Whatever, IMO the OP needs to get himself slightly-more organised. Immigration anywhere can be a pain, if you haven't got the right visa for your lifestyle, bills left unpaid anywhere will result in withdrawl-of-service, when you travel for a month rather than the usual week. Problem & solution identified, there.

Good luck to the OP, and feel free to vent or let-of-steam on TV, it beats joining the Pattaya (or Rotherham, or North-Devon) Flying-Club !

Thailand is not a Third World country.This idea of ranking countries into first, second and third world is a western imperialistic concept and totally irrelevant in a modern global society. Bangkok is one of the most modern cities in Asia and the world.... Drive through dreary Birmingham or any other UK city (except Central London) and compare it to Bangkok!You can't, but people like you will always view the world through an imperialistic prism....

There is only one real city in the UK Don't worry about driving through Birmingham, your original argument is Thailand not being a third world country, I am not sure about those classifications, but I have been to Isaan in the Nakhon Ratchasima and Buriram area and there did indeed seem to be high levels of poverty that I had personally not encountered before. I don't think the only factors for a countries development is that the capital city has shopping malls, high rises and lots of neon lights.

[Soutpeel]

Neversure is spot on. The difference between Thailand and a lot of Western countries is it's possible to live poor in Thailand. In the West there are so many statutory demands (council tax, high utility bills, high rents) that you can't get off the hamster wheel.

Thailand offers (offered?) the chance to turn on, tune in and drop out.

Spot on and well said. Living on the cheap in Thailand is dropping out. There's little chance to make money, you can't own your home and land.

What's with I can buy a new well equipped Camry in the US for less than I can buy a Vios or City in Thailand? I can buy a new well equipped Ford F150 cheaper than I can buy a small something in Thailand. I can buy gas (petrol) for the F150 as cheap as I can buy it per mile for the small truck in Thailand.

Rents and taxes? Property taxes are cheap in Georgia. They won't be more than $1,000 a year.

Click on the mortgage calculator just below the price in the listing I linked above. You'll find that with $15,000 down, 485,000 bht) your payments would be $298.00 (9600 bht) per month at 4.3% simple interest. No prepayment penalty allowed in the US. That's cheaper than putting up 800,000 baht and renting something that nice in LOS. By far cheaper. And you own it, all in your own name with almost 4 rai.

Thailand has become expensive not only due to inflation, but due to import taxes, VAT...

Right, exactly right.

I love being a hippy crossbred with a hillbilly see. I like to amble about the village wearing raggy clothes on my old puffy chuggy old Honda Click, see some friendly folks. I take the geriatric D-Max into town to the garden centre, fill the truck bed and rear seat with pots and plants and come away £50 poorer.

I like pottering around the dirt roads, going down the farm, bit of low cost creative DIY, doing a bit of photog'ing and taking the kids shopping (actually I hate that bit to be honest).

To live this idealized, highly materialistic existence that's often lauded as the optimum on this very site is, frankly, dull as dishwater and thankfully well beyond my meager fiscal position in this World.

Quite why folk go to live in Thailand just to live the same way they do in the West is beyond me. For me it's about going from a stressful and fraught job (existence) in Blighty to a simple, bucolic and down right idle time under my banana tree.

I can live poor. I love it. But the kids won't do it, so keeping me on the hamster wheel.

You mean you enjoy being a pikey

[MJP]

Neversure is spot on. The difference between Thailand and a lot of Western countries is it's possible to live poor in Thailand. In the West there are so many statutory demands (council tax, high utility bills, high rents) that you can't get off the hamster wheel.

Thailand offers (offered?) the chance to turn on, tune in and drop out.

Spot on and well said. Living on the cheap in Thailand is dropping out. There's little chance to make money, you can't own your home and land.

What's with I can buy a new well equipped Camry in the US for less than I can buy a Vios or City in Thailand? I can buy a new well equipped Ford F150 cheaper than I can buy a small something in Thailand. I can buy gas (petrol) for the F150 as cheap as I can buy it per mile for the small truck in Thailand.

Rents and taxes? Property taxes are cheap in Georgia. They won't be more than $1,000 a year.

Click on the mortgage calculator just below the price in the listing I linked above. You'll find that with $15,000 down, 485,000 bht) your payments would be $298.00 (9600 bht) per month at 4.3% simple interest. No prepayment penalty allowed in the US. That's cheaper than putting up 800,000 baht and renting something that nice in LOS. By far cheaper. And you own it, all in your own name with almost 4 rai.

Thailand has become expensive not only due to inflation, but due to import taxes, VAT...

Right, exactly right.

I love being a hippy crossbred with a hillbilly see. I like to amble about the village wearing raggy clothes on my old puffy chuggy old Honda Click, see some friendly folks. I take the geriatric D-Max into town to the garden centre, fill the truck bed and rear seat with pots and plants and come away £50 poorer.

I like pottering around the dirt roads, going down the farm, bit of low cost creative DIY, doing a bit of photog'ing and taking the kids shopping (actually I hate that bit to be honest).

To live this idealized, highly materialistic existence that's often lauded as the optimum on this very site is, frankly, dull as dishwater and thankfully well beyond my meager fiscal position in this World.

Quite why folk go to live in Thailand just to live the same way they do in the West is beyond me. For me it's about going from a stressful and fraught job (existence) in Blighty to a simple, bucolic and down right idle time under my banana tree.

I can live poor. I love it. But the kids won't do it, so keeping me on the hamster wheel.

You mean you enjoy being a pikey

I do actually.

Really I'm desperately searching for any vaguely valid excuse for being a lazy slob.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[thailiketoo]

Neversure is spot on. The difference between Thailand and a lot of Western countries is it's possible to live poor in Thailand. In the West there are so many statutory demands (council tax, high utility bills, high rents) that you can't get off the hamster wheel.

Thailand offers (offered?) the chance to turn on, tune in and drop out.

Spot on and well said. Living on the cheap in Thailand is dropping out. There's little chance to make money, you can't own your home and land.

What's with I can buy a new well equipped Camry in the US for less than I can buy a Vios or City in Thailand? I can buy a new well equipped Ford F150 cheaper than I can buy a small something in Thailand. I can buy gas (petrol) for the F150 as cheap as I can buy it per mile for the small truck in Thailand.

Rents and taxes? Property taxes are cheap in Georgia. They won't be more than $1,000 a year.

Click on the mortgage calculator just below the price in the listing I linked above. You'll find that with $15,000 down, 485,000 bht) your payments would be $298.00 (9600 bht) per month at 4.3% simple interest. No prepayment penalty allowed in the US. That's cheaper than putting up 800,000 baht and renting something that nice in LOS. By far cheaper. And you own it, all in your own name with almost 4 rai.

Thailand has become expensive not only due to inflation, but due to import taxes, VAT...

One does not need to drive in Thailand because they have mass transit much more sophisticated than most places in America. What is your fetish with owning your own home? Your wife will just get it in the end anyway. Rent and have a girlfriend. Why do you try and turn every thread into a Thai vs USA thread?

Get it through your head. You don't need a car in Thailand and you don't need to own a house. Everything else is cheaper. It is now and was 10 years ago.

Although I will grant that at the rate illegals are pouring into the States it will be a third world country soon and everything will be the same.

Edited July 5, 2014 by thailiketoo

[MJP]

Neversure is spot on. The difference between Thailand and a lot of Western countries is it's possible to live poor in Thailand. In the West there are so many statutory demands (council tax, high utility bills, high rents) that you can't get off the hamster wheel.

Thailand offers (offered?) the chance to turn on, tune in and drop out.

Spot on and well said. Living on the cheap in Thailand is dropping out. There's little chance to make money, you can't own your home and land.

What's with I can buy a new well equipped Camry in the US for less than I can buy a Vios or City in Thailand? I can buy a new well equipped Ford F150 cheaper than I can buy a small something in Thailand. I can buy gas (petrol) for the F150 as cheap as I can buy it per mile for the small truck in Thailand.

Rents and taxes? Property taxes are cheap in Georgia. They won't be more than $1,000 a year.

Click on the mortgage calculator just below the price in the listing I linked above. You'll find that with $15,000 down, 485,000 bht) your payments would be $298.00 (9600 bht) per month at 4.3% simple interest. No prepayment penalty allowed in the US. That's cheaper than putting up 800,000 baht and renting something that nice in LOS. By far cheaper. And you own it, all in your own name with almost 4 rai.

Thailand has become expensive not only due to inflation, but due to import taxes, VAT...

One does not need to drive in Thailand because they have mass transit much more sophisticated than most places in America. What is your fetish with owning your own home? Your wife will just get it in the end anyway. Rent and have a girlfriend. Why do you try and turn every thread into a Thai vs USA thread?

Get it through your head. You don't need a car in Thailand and you don't need to own a house. Everything else is cheaper. It is now and was 10 years ago.

Although I will grant that at the rate illegals are pouring into the States it will be a third world country soon and everything will be the same.

A beat up old truck is handy if you live in the sticks.

Honestly I tried the no truck bit. Real agg.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[thailiketoo]

Spot on and well said. Living on the cheap in Thailand is dropping out. There's little chance to make money, you can't own your home and land.

What's with I can buy a new well equipped Camry in the US for less than I can buy a Vios or City in Thailand? I can buy a new well equipped Ford F150 cheaper than I can buy a small something in Thailand. I can buy gas (petrol) for the F150 as cheap as I can buy it per mile for the small truck in Thailand.

Rents and taxes? Property taxes are cheap in Georgia. They won't be more than $1,000 a year.

Click on the mortgage calculator just below the price in the listing I linked above. You'll find that with $15,000 down, 485,000 bht) your payments would be $298.00 (9600 bht) per month at 4.3% simple interest. No prepayment penalty allowed in the US. That's cheaper than putting up 800,000 baht and renting something that nice in LOS. By far cheaper. And you own it, all in your own name with almost 4 rai.

Thailand has become expensive not only due to inflation, but due to import taxes, VAT...

One does not need to drive in Thailand because they have mass transit much more sophisticated than most places in America. What is your fetish with owning your own home? Your wife will just get it in the end anyway. Rent and have a girlfriend. Why do you try and turn every thread into a Thai vs USA thread?

Get it through your head. You don't need a car in Thailand and you don't need to own a house. Everything else is cheaper. It is now and was 10 years ago.

Although I will grant that at the rate illegals are pouring into the States it will be a third world country soon and everything will be the same.

A beat up old truck is handy if you live in the sticks.

Honestly I tried the no truck bit. Real agg.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

That's true. I'm old and don't like to drive anymore. I can take a bus anywhere for peanuts and rent a truck and driver for two peanuts. I do have a motorcycle because I think every 70 year old should have one but having said that last week I had to buy a 10 foot ladder and the truck to get it home cost me 50 baht.

[MJP]

Spot on and well said. Living on the cheap in Thailand is dropping out. There's little chance to make money, you can't own your home and land.

What's with I can buy a new well equipped Camry in the US for less than I can buy a Vios or City in Thailand? I can buy a new well equipped Ford F150 cheaper than I can buy a small something in Thailand. I can buy gas (petrol) for the F150 as cheap as I can buy it per mile for the small truck in Thailand.

Rents and taxes? Property taxes are cheap in Georgia. They won't be more than $1,000 a year.

Click on the mortgage calculator just below the price in the listing I linked above. You'll find that with $15,000 down, 485,000 bht) your payments would be $298.00 (9600 bht) per month at 4.3% simple interest. No prepayment penalty allowed in the US. That's cheaper than putting up 800,000 baht and renting something that nice in LOS. By far cheaper. And you own it, all in your own name with almost 4 rai.

Thailand has become expensive not only due to inflation, but due to import taxes, VAT...

One does not need to drive in Thailand because they have mass transit much more sophisticated than most places in America. What is your fetish with owning your own home? Your wife will just get it in the end anyway. Rent and have a girlfriend. Why do you try and turn every thread into a Thai vs USA thread?

Get it through your head. You don't need a car in Thailand and you don't need to own a house. Everything else is cheaper. It is now and was 10 years ago.

Although I will grant that at the rate illegals are pouring into the States it will be a third world country soon and everything will be the same.

A beat up old truck is handy if you live in the sticks.

Honestly I tried the no truck bit. Real agg.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

That's true. I'm old and don't like to drive anymore. I can take a bus anywhere for peanuts and rent a truck and driver for two peanuts. I do have a motorcycle because I think every 70 year old should have one but having said that last week I had to buy a 10 foot ladder and the truck to get it home cost me 50 baht.

I got 100kgs of cement and an 8x4 foot sheet of steel mesh 8km home from the builders merchants once using a Honda Click.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[thailiketoo]

A beat up old truck is handy if you live in the sticks.

Honestly I tried the no truck bit. Real agg.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

That's true. I'm old and don't like to drive anymore. I can take a bus anywhere for peanuts and rent a truck and driver for two peanuts. I do have a motorcycle because I think every 70 year old should have one but having said that last week I had to buy a 10 foot ladder and the truck to get it home cost me 50 baht.

I got 100kgs of cement and an 8x4 foot sheet of steel mesh 8km home from the builders merchants once using a Honda Click.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I gotta say I like my Honda Click too. Low end torque is great and room for me and my dog. I'm tired of shifting anyway. Mag wheels and I don't have to try and lift my leg over a frame.

[Soutpeel]

One does not need to drive in Thailand because they have mass transit much more sophisticated than most places in America. What is your fetish with owning your own home? Your wife will just get it in the end anyway. Rent and have a girlfriend. Why do you try and turn every thread into a Thai vs USA thread?

Get it through your head. You don't need a car in Thailand and you don't need to own a house. Everything else is cheaper. It is now and was 10 years ago.

Although I will grant that at the rate illegals are pouring into the States it will be a third world country soon and everything will be the same.
anymore

You do need your own transport if your living in the boonies, not to many BTS stations in isaan I believe

As regards "cheaper" Thailand is not "cheap" anymore, as somebody else mentioned, its easier to live poor in Thailand, this doesn't infer that its cheap

[MJP]

A beat up old truck is handy if you live in the sticks.

Honestly I tried the no truck bit. Real agg.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

That's true. I'm old and don't like to drive anymore. I can take a bus anywhere for peanuts and rent a truck and driver for two peanuts. I do have a motorcycle because I think every 70 year old should have one but having said that last week I had to buy a 10 foot ladder and the truck to get it home cost me 50 baht.

I got 100kgs of cement and an 8x4 foot sheet of steel mesh 8km home from the builders merchants once using a Honda Click.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I gotta say I like my Honda Click too. Low end torque is great and room for me and my dog. I'm tired of shifting anyway. Mag wheels and I don't have to try and lift my leg over a frame.

My dog used used to go everywhere with me on the Click, always jumped straight on the foot well bit and off we'd go. Me, dog, two kids and luggage.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[thailiketoo]

That's true. I'm old and don't like to drive anymore. I can take a bus anywhere for peanuts and rent a truck and driver for two peanuts. I do have a motorcycle because I think every 70 year old should have one but having said that last week I had to buy a 10 foot ladder and the truck to get it home cost me 50 baht.

I got 100kgs of cement and an 8x4 foot sheet of steel mesh 8km home from the builders merchants once using a Honda Click.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I gotta say I like my Honda Click too. Low end torque is great and room for me and my dog. I'm tired of shifting anyway. Mag wheels and I don't have to try and lift my leg over a frame.

My dog used used to go everywhere with me on the Click, always jumped straight on the foot well bit and off we'd go. Me, dog, two kids and luggage.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The Click has gotten a lot better in the last ten years with the addition of the new 125i motor. Ten years ago I weighed 60k now I weigh 70k and the new bike goes at the same rate of speed.

(The Click 125i presents a sporty design with aggressive and innovative looks based on the image of the new engine featuring cutting-edge technology and an exhilarating ride, while inheriting the “slim & sharp” concept of the Click-i)

Now my kids would never let a 70 year old ride the above in the West. I got great accident insurance with my new Thai credit card at the expensive hospital nearby and I'm good to go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Yv2jvpqD9w

Edited July 5, 2014 by thailiketoo

[MJP]

At the time I weighed 145kilos so add 100kilos cement and that Click was carrying a quarter of a tonne!

Incredible feat of engineering.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited July 5, 2014 by MJP

[JAFO]

Thailand can be an awesome place to live and enjoy a nice life but you have to plan it as such. I never went all in. I spend time back in the US and return home to Thailand. My wife does not care much for the U.S at all. We get a fill of what we need and exit. While people debate this over and over on this site, my money typically goes 6-8x further than it would in the U.S. and I have way less constraints to my personal freedom. If all people can complain about is having to check in, move to the U.S. I think your view would change dramatically.

"...my money typically goes 6-8x further than it would in the U.S."

The topic is about better or worse over 10 years. Your statement today of course isn't true. For it to be true, you'd need to have $1,000 month buy as much in Thailand as would 6 - 8,000 in the US. There are SO many reasons that's not true. For one thing, there is so much difference in the quality of what you could buy in Thailand as opposed to the US.

Why don't you buy THIS house just outside of Atlanta Georgia for less than 2.5 mil bht, and own the land? Full blown Western kitchen, 2 Western baths, 1st world underground utilities with safe drinking water and uncensored blazing fast internet. Garage, safe water, sanitary sewer...

And you get almost 4 rai that's all yours.

Almost every manufactured consumer item will be much cheaper as will quality food.

Thailand used to be a lot cheaper IF you settled for Thai standards in everything. I don't think that's true today. Not at all.

Not to debate this with you, I live my life and I live quite comfortable and while generilizations always surface, I track costs frequently and most are exactly what I stated(Again for me and my living life style). As for owning the land,(without laughing too much) very few own the land or house in the US, the banks do. 95% are tied up in 30 year loans or 30 due in 5 ARMs's hoping they can keep their job. In the end you will pay 2X in interest over the term of the loan than the actual house and land are worth. As for me, I do not care if I do not own the land. People whine about that constantly. Its a moot point. Its no different then renting IMHO. I will say it has been a great feeling not having a bank always looking at me with their hand out, pay up or we will take it back. If I stayed in the U.S I would have to work until I get close to death. Here I am retired and do whatever I want...quite happily mind you.

So lets leave it at that and let the thread go back to original question. I apologize my post took it off on a tangent. I made my comments based on my experience. Sure I miss the days when the Baht converted at 36-39 but that's OK. I planned for that. A visit to the US is all I need to remind me as I see my friends working round the clock trying to save and make ends meet. I will pass.

I think it was Hillary Clinton that observed that due to land/property taxes no one actually owned the land they thought they did. Unless you keep paying those taxes demanded of you the land/property can be taken from you by the state.

Can't find link.

MJP,

You are absolutely correct MJP. If you stop paying state and local taxes (even if the house is paid for) the state can take the land and put a lien against it and kick you off and this has happened numerous times.. So in the end you never really EVER own the land in the U.S. You only think you do because it has your name written on the state taxed assessors form. Its a false sense of security. Things would be a whole lot different for a whole bunch of us if once you paid the mortgage off and the Deed was yours it included the land and no more taxes applied. That would be a sweet deal. But that's not the case and never ever will be. So mosey on over to the U.S and buy a house and the land. Make that Mortgage, pay those property taxes but remember the bank owns the house and the state owns the land. You're just renting it from those 2 businesses.

Edited July 5, 2014 by JAFO

[MJP]

MJP,
You are absolutely correct MJP. If you stop paying state and local taxes (even if the house is paid for) the state can take the land and put a lien against it and kick you off and this has happened numerous times.. So in the end you never really EVER own the land in the U.S. You only think you do because it has your name written on the state taxed assessors form. Its a false sense of security. Things would be a whole lot different for a whole bunch of us if once you paid the mortgage off and the Deed was yours it included the land and no more taxes applied. That would be a sweet deal. But that's not the case and never ever will be. So mosey on over to the U.S and buy a house and the land. Make that Mortgage, pay those property taxes but remember the bank owns the house and the state owns the land. You're just renting it from those 2 businesses.

We don't enjoy the freedom to be poor in many Western countries.

I know that sounds crass. I know we were lucky to be born to such wealth and amenity.

But . . . sometimes it's nice to slob out and not bother with the McRatrace.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[MJP]

At the time I weighed 145kilos so add 100kilos cement and that Click was carrying a quarter of a tonne!

Incredible feat of engineering.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

145kg !.... Where you in the buffet line with our Gay Muslim member ? and how many cinema seats did you break ?

I have broken many objects under the force of gravity.

One time I was denied the rental of an entire aircraft.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[NeverSure]

Not to debate this with you, I live my life and I live quite comfortable and while generilizations always surface, I track costs frequently and most are exactly what I stated(Again for me and my living life style). As for owning the land,(without laughing too much) very few own the land or house in the US, the banks do. 95% are tied up in 30 year loans or 30 due in 5 ARMs's hoping they can keep their job. In the end you will pay 2X in interest over the term of the loan than the actual house and land are worth. As for me, I do not care if I do not own the land. People whine about that constantly. Its a moot point. Its no different then renting IMHO. I will say it has been a great feeling not having a bank always looking at me with their hand out, pay up or we will take it back. If I stayed in the U.S I would have to work until I get close to death. Here I am retired and do whatever I want...quite happily mind you.

Thailand can be an awesome place to live and enjoy a nice life but you have to plan it as such. I never went all in. I spend time back in the US and return home to Thailand. My wife does not care much for the U.S at all. We get a fill of what we need and exit. While people debate this over and over on this site, my money typically goes 6-8x further than it would in the U.S. and I have way less constraints to my personal freedom. If all people can complain about is having to check in, move to the U.S. I think your view would change dramatically.

"...my money typically goes 6-8x further than it would in the U.S."

The topic is about better or worse over 10 years. Your statement today of course isn't true. For it to be true, you'd need to have $1,000 month buy as much in Thailand as would 6 - 8,000 in the US. There are SO many reasons that's not true. For one thing, there is so much difference in the quality of what you could buy in Thailand as opposed to the US.

Why don't you buy THIS house just outside of Atlanta Georgia for less than 2.5 mil bht, and own the land? Full blown Western kitchen, 2 Western baths, 1st world underground utilities with safe drinking water and uncensored blazing fast internet. Garage, safe water, sanitary sewer...

And you get almost 4 rai that's all yours.

Almost every manufactured consumer item will be much cheaper as will quality food.

Thailand used to be a lot cheaper IF you settled for Thai standards in everything. I don't think that's true today. Not at all.

So lets leave it at that and let the thread go back to original question. I apologize my post took it off on a tangent. I made my comments based on my experience. Sure I miss the days when the Baht converted at 36-39 but that's OK. I planned for that. A visit to the US is all I need to remind me as I see my friends working round the clock trying to save and make ends meet. I will pass.

I think it was Hillary Clinton that observed that due to land/property taxes no one actually owned the land they thought they did. Unless you keep paying those taxes demanded of you the land/property can be taken from you by the state.

Can't find link.

MJP,

You are absolutely correct MJP. If you stop paying state and local taxes (even if the house is paid for) the state can take the land and put a lien against it and kick you off and this has happened numerous times.. So in the end you never really EVER own the land in the U.S. You only think you do because it has your name written on the state taxed assessors form. Its a false sense of security. Things would be a whole lot different for a whole bunch of us if once you paid the mortgage off and the Deed was yours it included the land and no more taxes applied. That would be a sweet deal. But that's not the case and never ever will be. So mosey on over to the U.S and buy a house and the land. Make that Mortgage, pay those property taxes but remember the bank owns the house and the state owns the land. You're just renting it from those 2 businesses.

Wait. In my state, if you're low income you can get your property taxes deferred at age 65 for life. They build up as a lien but can't be collected until after you die. If you have heirs, they lose because the state gets paid first and the house must be sold, but owning a house for life is good enough for me if that's what I needed.

I don't know about other states because it applies only to a residence and not investment properties. Fair enough. But I can just see the fallout if a state started foreclosing on senior citizens and kicking them out of their homes for back taxes.

Someone said "wife." I don't have one for too many good reasons. Losing a house is one, doing what I want is one...

I don't buy the part about not needing a car. There are not buses all over Thailand that run the route I want to go.

Just buy THIS HOUSE and kick back. If you don't want a car get a scooter. Georgia has wonderful Southern weather.

[thailiketoo]

Wait. In my state, if you're low income you can get your property taxes deferred at age 65 for life. They build up as a lien but can't be collected until after you die. If you have heirs, they lose because the state gets paid first and the house must be sold, but owning a house for life is good enough for me if that's what I needed.

I don't know about other states because it applies only to a residence and not investment properties. Fair enough. But I can just see the fallout if a state started foreclosing on senior citizens and kicking them out of their homes for back taxes.

Someone said "wife." I don't have one for too many good reasons. Losing a house is one, doing what I want is one...

I don't buy the part about not needing a car. There are not buses all over Thailand that run the route I want to go.

Just buy THIS HOUSE and kick back. If you don't want a car get a scooter. Georgia has wonderful Southern weather.

Where would you want to go in Thailand that you couldn't get public transportation? Public transportation has gotten better in the past ten years. My point is you can live without a car in Thailand no problem. Most Thais don't have a car. That is impossible in many countries. PS when someone says something good about Thailand you really don't have to knee jerk reaction (its better in America). 1. It's not and 2. No one cares.

Edited July 5, 2014 by thailiketoo

[Berkshire]

Where would you want to go in Thailand that you couldn't get public transportation?

I can tell you that in Chiang Mai, there is some semblance of public transport, but it's not particularly convenient nor reliable. You really need your own transport if you value your freedom of movement. Even the Thais know this to be true. I've had Thais tell me that being without your own transport in CM is like not having legs. Of course, I'm sure there are expats in CM who'll say they do just fine without it. But I couldn't. About the only place I've been in Thailand where not having your own transport is doable (maybe even preferred) is BKK.