I don't have a degree but I believe I can teach...

[thaibeachlovers]

In my experience very few of the English teachers here, at least in my area, have a degree and they are teaching legally with Work Permit etc. I think schools are so desperate for native English speakers that they will take almost anyone.

I wish I'd known that back in 2000. I wanted to do a TEFL and teach in Thailand, but I believed them when they said I needed a degree .

[thaibeachlovers]

I hate the argument of someone being "unqualified" just because they dont have a university degree. This is absolutely ridiculous. Just because you studied political science, art history, marketing, or whatever DOES NOT mean you are a better/more qualified English teacher than someone who does not have a degree.... How can anyone even begin to argue this point?

I also hate that schools will hire Germans, French, Greeks, Arabs or whoever over a native speaker JUST because they have a degree.... Absolutely ridiculous.

But hey, its the rules, Thailand says to be qualified to teach the ABCs to 5 year olds, you have to have a degree. Otherwise they will hire a German or a Thai over you.

I assume that having a degree is just showing that somebody went through a higher education. I’m German, teaching here for ten years, my uncle taught German for many years at a German high school very successfully, until he became the principal of that school.

Your post is pretty much German bashing, don’t you agree? There’re Germans and Germans. As well as Americans and Americans. Brits and Brits. How can you make this up that only being a native English speaker makes somebody to a better English teacher?

Your last sentence; //// “Otherwise they’ll hire a German, or a Thai over you” is pretty much racist and ridiculous.

I personally don’t have a problem if you dislike Germans, but if they prefer to hire a Thai instead of a Brit, American, Aussie, Kiwi, Canadian, dude, this country is also called Thailand. Where’s your problem?

Now you're making Thais and Germans to low class citizens.

Are you saying it's OK to hire someone that can't actually teach the subject just because they are Thai, in preference to someone that can?

[RaysFan]

I hate the argument of someone being "unqualified" just because they dont have a university degree. This is absolutely ridiculous. Just because you studied political science, art history, marketing, or whatever DOES NOT mean you are a better/more qualified English teacher than someone who does not have a degree.... How can anyone even begin to argue this point?

I also hate that schools will hire Germans, French, Greeks, Arabs or whoever over a native speaker JUST because they have a degree.... Absolutely ridiculous.

But hey, its the rules, Thailand says to be qualified to teach the ABCs to 5 year olds, you have to have a degree. Otherwise they will hire a German or a Thai over you.

I assume that having a degree is just showing that somebody went through a higher education. I’m German, teaching here for ten years, my uncle taught German for many years at a German high school very successfully, until he became the principal of that school.

Your post is pretty much German bashing, don’t you agree? There’re Germans and Germans. As well as Americans and Americans. Brits and Brits. How can you make this up that only being a native English speaker makes somebody to a better English teacher?

Your last sentence; //// “Otherwise they’ll hire a German, or a Thai over you” is pretty much racist and ridiculous.

I personally don’t have a problem if you dislike Germans, but if they prefer to hire a Thai instead of a Brit, American, Aussie, Kiwi, Canadian, dude, this country is also called Thailand. Where’s your problem?

Now you're making Thais and Germans to low class citizens.

No, I am not German bashing at all. Are you an English teacher? I sure hope not! Becasue you COMPLETELY miss my point here! And I am using very BASIC English. Poor kids . I really encourage you to read my post again. Hopefully you can understand the point I am clearly making

[brucetefl]

And while I understand and agree with your point here, KennyN, its often impossible to find a single Thai teacher of English that is able to communicate in English at most schools in Thailand.

I hate the argument of someone being "unqualified" just because they dont have a university degree. This is absolutely ridiculous. Just because you studied political science, art history, marketing, or whatever DOES NOT mean you are a better/more qualified English teacher than someone who does not have a degree.... How can anyone even begin to argue this point?

I also hate that schools will hire Germans, French, Greeks, Arabs or whoever over a native speaker JUST because they have a degree.... Absolutely ridiculous.

But hey, its the rules, Thailand says to be qualified to teach the ABCs to 5 year olds, you have to have a degree. Otherwise they will hire a German or a Thai over you.

I assume that having a degree is just showing that somebody went through a higher education. I’m German, teaching here for ten years, my uncle taught German for many years at a German high school very successfully, until he became the principal of that school.

Your post is pretty much German bashing, don’t you agree? There’re Germans and Germans. As well as Americans and Americans. Brits and Brits. How can you make this up that only being a native English speaker makes somebody to a better English teacher?

Your last sentence; //// “Otherwise they’ll hire a German, or a Thai over you” is pretty much racist and ridiculous.

I personally don’t have a problem if you dislike Germans, but if they prefer to hire a Thai instead of a Brit, American, Aussie, Kiwi, Canadian, dude, this country is also called Thailand. Where’s your problem?

Now you're making Thais and Germans to low class citizens.

No, I am not German bashing at all. Are you an English teacher? I sure hope not! Becasue you COMPLETELY miss my point here! And I am using very BASIC English. Poor kids . I really encourage you to read my post again. Hopefully you can understand the point I am clearly making

[RaysFan]

I hate the argument of someone being "unqualified" just because they dont have a university degree. This is absolutely ridiculous. Just because you studied political science, art history, marketing, or whatever DOES NOT mean you are a better/more qualified English teacher than someone who does not have a degree.... How can anyone even begin to argue this point?

I also hate that schools will hire Germans, French, Greeks, Arabs or whoever over a native speaker JUST because they have a degree.... Absolutely ridiculous.

But hey, its the rules, Thailand says to be qualified to teach the ABCs to 5 year olds, you have to have a degree. Otherwise they will hire a German or a Thai over you.

I don't know if I am actually going to take up teaching, probably English if I do, but I'd be one of the persons you hate.

I am German with degrees in law and have successfully done some written legal assignments when studying in Belfast for a while. If I were to take up teaching I'd first do a TEFL, of course, it's the responsible thing to do.

Now, I once tried teaching someone some German doing voluntary work with the church, I didn't know where even to begin. That's obviously because I never had to learn German as such. English is different for me in that respect, my level of usage will suffice for any practical purposes, if I say so myself, and no, I don't have a German accent. I also have 6 years of Latin under my belt, which to my mind is of enormous help understanding grammar.

So what makes you think you'd be a better teacher of English just because you are a native speaker?

Another non native speaker missed my point. I am not bashing Germans, or any other nationality. My point is.... Because of the rules in Thailand.... They will hire a NON NATIVE SPEAKER who has a degree.... Regardless of their level of English OR their accent, over a NATIVE ENGLISH SPEAKER without a degree.... Not taking anything else into consideration.

How can you not catch my point? I am not bashing your country. I am not bashing you. I am making a point about the rules for hiring a teacher in Thailand.

[brucetefl]

Sorry your meaning was probably quite clear in an earlier post that I have forgotten about.

[SheungWan]

If having a degree in engineering makes you a good teacher, by the same logic, it follows that having a degree in education makes you a good engineer.

No it doesn't.

Actually I will employ the engineer. S/he is able to think logically and see projects through to completion. The last thing I would want is some dreamer drop-out who is 'in love with Thailand'.

Edited July 6, 2014 by SheungWan

[Saradoc1972]

Another non native speaker missed my point. I am not bashing Germans, or any other nationality. My point is.... Because of the rules in Thailand.... They will hire a NON NATIVE SPEAKER who has a degree.... Regardless of their level of English OR their accent, over a NATIVE ENGLISH SPEAKER without a degree.... Not taking anything else into consideration.

How can you not catch my point? I am not bashing your country. I am not bashing you. I am making a point about the rules for hiring a teacher in Thailand.

No, I am perfectly getting your point.

Your post is obviously not to do with Germans or Arabs as such, but about non-native speakers teaching English on grounds of having some degree.

And all I'm saying is that being a "NES" does not necessarily make you that much more qualified or qualified at all in the first place, because you don't know how your own language's grammar works and you'll have difficulties determining what words to use in trying to explain things in simple language when your non-native speaker will have at least 2-3 years of experience using hammer-and-nail English himself.

Obviously, IF someone were to reach a very advanced level of English, way beyond what Thai children in the present school system can ever hope to achieve as things are, it would be time for him or her to go to a country where English is spoken natively for the immersion. And talk to a good couple of native speakers to get used to a variety of accents and rapid speech with some colloquial expressions.

I could take care of the Northern Irish variety.

Edited July 6, 2014 by Saradoc1972

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Thanks for the responses everyone. I know this topic has been done once or twice before, I think we all just need positive affirmation of our own individual circumstance.

Oh, yes. Your situation is very unique.

[lostinisaan]

I hate the argument of someone being "unqualified" just because they dont have a university degree. This is absolutely ridiculous. Just because you studied political science, art history, marketing, or whatever DOES NOT mean you are a better/more qualified English teacher than someone who does not have a degree.... How can anyone even begin to argue this point?

I also hate that schools will hire Germans, French, Greeks, Arabs or whoever over a native speaker JUST because they have a degree.... Absolutely ridiculous.

But hey, its the rules, Thailand says to be qualified to teach the ABCs to 5 year olds, you have to have a degree. Otherwise they will hire a German or a Thai over you.

I assume that having a degree is just showing that somebody went through a higher education. I’m German, teaching here for ten years, my uncle taught German for many years at a German high school very successfully, until he became the principal of that school.

Your post is pretty much German bashing, don’t you agree? There’re Germans and Germans. As well as Americans and Americans. Brits and Brits. How can you make this up that only being a native English speaker makes somebody to a better English teacher?

Your last sentence; //// “Otherwise they’ll hire a German, or a Thai over you” is pretty much racist and ridiculous.

I personally don’t have a problem if you dislike Germans, but if they prefer to hire a Thai instead of a Brit, American, Aussie, Kiwi, Canadian, dude, this country is also called Thailand. Where’s your problem?

Now you're making Thais and Germans to low class citizens.

No, I am not German bashing at all. Are you an English teacher? I sure hope not! Becasue you COMPLETELY miss my point here! And I am using very BASIC English. Poor kids . I really encourage you to read my post again. Hopefully you can understand the point I am clearly making

How could I even miss anything here? Please read your own post again and tell me what you're trying to say. .

In my own personal opinion, a pretty much impertinent statement of an obviously not very well educated person.Here're your words that matter.

Your arrogance in an open forum speaks its own language.

But hey, its the rules, Thailand says to be qualified to teach the ABCs to 5 year olds, you have to have a degree. Otherwise they will hire a German or a Thai over you.

Edited July 6, 2014 by lostinisaan

[RaysFan]

If I have offended the non native English speaking English teachers here in Thailand, I am sorry. I'm sure some of you have a pretty good grasp on English, and are probably great teachers. But I know there are hundreds, if not thousands here in Thailand who are not.

In my opinion, you should not need a degree to teach English at a school in Thailand, as in high school and under... If you are a native English teacher, and you have earned a TEFL or some other English language teaching certificate.

In my opinion, schools in Thailand should hire a native English teacher 100 times out of 100 times, regardless of their higher education status over a person who can "get by" with their English, and are white, and have a degree.

Here's an example.... I have a college degree, and I took 4 years of Spanish in high school, and I can speak a little..... Should I get a job as a Spanish teacher in America over a Mexican?

Why should a non native English speaker in Thailand get an English teaching job over a native English speaker in Thailand? This happens everyday.

Obviously there are special cases. The 2 German guys who got mad at me earlier might have an excellent grasp on the language. I wouldn't say this is the norm though. I have met TONS of other non native English speaking English teachers in Thailand who can hardly carry on a conversation.

Cant blame the non native speaking teachers though... They applied and they got hired. Its the system that is broke. Its the attitude that is broke. People shouldn't be able to get a teaching job just because they are white and have a degree.

Best case scenario would be every school in Thailand would have a native English speaking teacher with a degree in education.... This will obviously never happen, not with them paying 30,000 baht per month. But in my opinion, the next best scenario would be to have a native English speaking teacher in every school, regardless of the degree.... I think this is possible. Obviously there is special cases for non native speakers. Filipinos have fantastic English

[Saradoc1972]

If I have offended the non native English speaking English teachers here in Thailand, I am sorry. I'm sure some of you have a pretty good grasp on English, and are probably great teachers. But I know there are hundreds, if not thousands here in Thailand who are not.

In my opinion, you should not need a degree to teach English at a school in Thailand, as in high school and under... If you are a native English teacher, and you have earned a TEFL or some other English language teaching certificate.

I never took offense, I see you're point, I am just not agreeing with everything there, with some points we're singing from the same page.

When I went to my normal public school in Germany back till 1991 having a native speaker for English classes was next to unheard of, certainly in my small town. Most guys I went to school with obviously only acquired English skills to the degree you would be used to (and we're talking A-level classes here, 13 years of schooling), as in: can get by in a conversation, accent makes your toe nails curl upwards.

That will obviously not do for teaching earnestly. But in my A-level class, for example, we were 13 students, and you'd have been amazed with anyone's English there.

When you get s.o. from eastern Europe, you might also be in for a surprise, as was mentioned earlier in some lengthy post. Got myself a Ukrainian girl-friend studying economics once, her German was impeccable; sometimes a little funny with a Bavarian accent ;-))

I give you that you'd normally be right with the limitations of a foreigner's English. Got some friends who are physicians and engineers, and their English is really good, just a bit clumsy and sometimes ... awkward, doesn't sound right, prepositions all in the wrong places. But would do for teaching s.o. English for 3 years or so to build on under some more qualified teacher, if they could get their pedagogics right. It's not like you get a class full of little geniusses who learn everything perfect and soak in every little mistake when they can't even count to begin with.

About the degrees... you'd probably have to experience for yourself what getting a degree means and what it does to you. I'm not talking some Mickey-Mouse-degree in social pedagogy or applied arts here, but something desperately earnest in core Europe or the US, where even former top-notch A-level students just fail after years. I can understand if you're put off by the prospect of s.o. being preferred over you by virtue of said minimum effort degrees.

If you are able to get the real sort of a university degree, you will have "learned to learn" for yourself with only basic explanations in courses, and that broadens the mind as to why some other people fail to understand explanations and how to put really difficult things together in a structured way on a piece of paper.

I have sometimes asked myself with the hindsight I now have: why didn't I just fly through school and only got top marks in the first place. The answer is: because I did not have those skills back then and could not work with the mostly excellent textbooks the way I was meant to. Learning at schools, even in Europe, up to at least age 16 is more or less "learning by osmosis", and the experience of having gone through that sort of learning, which you would then base your own teaching on, is not the same as learning towards a degree and learning to think in structured, highly abstract ways, and then break that down again to apply it.

Again, if you're enraged at the "any degree will do" rules, I can understand that to some point. I think it's mostly meant to keep the sort of beery would-be-teachers away from the kids they so got used to for many years and give the officials in charge a nice feeling of security about whom they hired. Nice, shiny, official-looking bit of paper always goes a long way with civil servants.

[wolfmanjack]

I hate the argument of someone being "unqualified" just because they dont have a university degree. This is absolutely ridiculous. Just because you studied political science, art history, marketing, or whatever DOES NOT mean you are a better/more qualified English teacher than someone who does not have a degree.... How can anyone even begin to argue this point?

I also hate that schools will hire Germans, French, Greeks, Arabs or whoever over a native speaker JUST because they have a degree.... Absolutely ridiculous.

But hey, its the rules, Thailand says to be qualified to teach the ABCs to 5 year olds, you have to have a degree. Otherwise they will hire a German or a Thai over you.

Almost as ridiculous as trying to argue someone can simply be a teacher of English just because they happen to be a NES.

Teaching is a profession.

From my observations and experience people either have a natural aptitude for teaching or they don't; and yes being a NES is head and shoulders better at teaching conversational English than some other heavily accented nationality. with degrees and qualifications coming out their ass. it is common sense. I've met some incredibly arrogant french who think they are good because of their experience and status at the school, but how was the poor kids were ever going to learn English from them was anybodies guess. Ok maybe a different story if you talk about University level but youngsters need a fun enthusiastic interesting person with clear language ability and able to maintain some informal discipline, which in Thai government schools is the hardest part on the whole. and that isnt gained by a qualification

actually i want to add that many of the schools here dont want highly skilled teachers that can go there own way, they prefer teachers to stick to some crap Americanized book and teach parrot fashion.. repetition, repetition and bore the students into learning English. any good and highly qualified teacher normally soon becomes frustrated with the limitations placed on them in a Thai School.

I have seen the book that you are expected to cover in 1 year for 1st grade students. It looked to me like it could be done in a couple of months at the most.

[NeverSure]

I have seen the book that you are expected to cover in 1 year for 1st grade students. It looked to me like it could be done in a couple of months at the most.

Isn't that when a good teacher would develop some solid filler material to make the year productive? Or would the teacher get into trouble for adding to the course material?

[Scott]

If I have offended the non native English speaking English teachers here in Thailand, I am sorry. I'm sure some of you have a pretty good grasp on English, and are probably great teachers. But I know there are hundreds, if not thousands here in Thailand who are not.

<snipped>

I don't think you have to make any apologies. Non-native English speakers have to take an English Language Proficiency Exam, such as the TOEIC before they are permitted to work, legally. So the idea that they can't string sentences together is probably less than honest.

Accents are accents and everyone has one, at least to the ear of anyone from another area or country.

[NeverSure]

After all of these posts on varying topics, I'd like to say that every kid in Thailand should have solid exposure to a native English speaker during the formative years. Because there are so many different accents even among the NES group, I don't have a problem with a highly skilled non-NES teacher either including the nice German man who's been posting.

With the world becoming more and more involved in international trade and communications (internet for instance) it will become more and more important for these kids to know English if they want to reach their full potential.

There will never be enough NES teachers to put one in every school, especially not those trained in education. With that not an option, what is the other option for the kids, even if it's not the highest goal?

PS English would also help them to be able to see the big picture of the world which now they think revolves around Thailand. Being able to access the English on the internet would open the whole world to them and that's another education they need.

[Scott]

You do realize that probably most of the students in Asia will not be using English to talk to Native speakers? Thai students will be using it to speak to people from other non-native English speaking countries.

[wolfmanjack]

I have seen the book that you are expected to cover in 1 year for 1st grade students. It looked to me like it could be done in a couple of months at the most.

Isn't that when a good teacher would develop some solid filler material to make the year productive? Or would the teacher get into trouble for adding to the course material?

According to the teacher that showed me the book they are not allowed to deviate from the book. She taught from the book for 30 minutes and showed english cartoons for the rest of the class. That was how she stayed on the schools schedule.

[epicstuff]

My main objection to the "English Teachers" in Thailand is exactly this .....they "believe" they can teach - but in the case of most here their only claim to being called a "Teacher" is the fact that they speak English as a Native Language - and of course the colour of their skin:

I will always remember my first teacher in Primary School back in the UK, she was a truly dedicated professional and gave me a love of learning which has stayed with me to this day.

The TEFLERs and such here in Thailand simply do not understand their responsibilities to young minds in that way, and, much more importantly, the irreparable damage they can do to their Students hopes and visions by their inattention to their charges as individuals - while they themselves mark time, desperately waiting for the Bell to ring so they can rush off to their local Bar.

To the vast majority of these people, it's not a "vocation", it's barely a "job", it's somewhere where they earn money - simply that.

Patrick

Its all well and good ranting on about what teaching should be about . but tell it to the institutions They don't value those skills here. I dont think dedicated highly qualified experienced (and that's the important bit) NES teachers are queuing up around the block to dedicate themselves to under appreciating schools with jealous un-cooprative co workers, bad working conditions with non air-conditioned and over full classes full of students with little respect for their foreign teachers in many cases, little support or interest from the department heads and co workers and all for 30,000 baht a month less all the visa headaches and increased cost of living for a foreigner here, blal bla bla . . I think any school here that has a motivated, well meaning NES teacher should be grateful, It is way better than a kick in the teeth or even a poke in the eye

[jacky54]

Should an unqualified teacher be allowed to teach any more than an unqualified Doctor or car mechanic doing those jobs, I don't think so. Unfortunately you will have no problem finding work, hence the very poor standard of English in Thailand. Get a degree, teaching qualifications, experience and then come to Thailand to teach, if you love the place so much it should not be too difficult.

Not having a degree does NOT make one unqualified to do a job. I was lucky enough to be able to get my nursing registration before the morons made it a degree entry level occupation and did it for 26 years. Now hardly anyone wnats to be a nurse, of course, as the pay is not commensurate with a degree level profession.

.

So are calling the Thai authorities 'morons' for wanting qualified teachers? Sorry to burst your bubble but not having a degree DOES make you unqualified to teach here. Of course it is ignored which is something hopefully the junta will try and stop. Thai kids deserve better than anyone with a white face thinking they can teach English, they can't despite argument that teachers are born and not made, training to teach and a degree are, and should be mandatory. The days of sex tourists, failed no hoper falangs and gap students becoming 'teachers' here is something that is hopefully coming to an end.

[thaibeachlovers]

Should an unqualified teacher be allowed to teach any more than an unqualified Doctor or car mechanic doing those jobs, I don't think so. Unfortunately you will have no problem finding work, hence the very poor standard of English in Thailand. Get a degree, teaching qualifications, experience and then come to Thailand to teach, if you love the place so much it should not be too difficult.

Not having a degree does NOT make one unqualified to do a job. I was lucky enough to be able to get my nursing registration before the morons made it a degree entry level occupation and did it for 26 years. Now hardly anyone wnats to be a nurse, of course, as the pay is not commensurate with a degree level profession.

Conversly, having a degree in "media studies" or flower arranging is not going to make someone a good teacher, and I understand the requirement in Thailand is to have a degree in any subject, not necessarily in a teaching related subject.

I'm with the employers that prefer people that can DO a job, not those with a degree, which is pretty meaningless now anyway.

Media studies, rap etc etc cheesy.gif cheesy.gif cheesy.gif .

.

So are calling the Thai authorities 'morons' for wanting qualified teachers? Sorry to burst your bubble but not having a degree DOES make you unqualified to teach here. Of course it is ignored which is something hopefully the junta will try and stop. Thai kids deserve better than anyone with a white face thinking they can teach English, they can't despite argument that teachers are born and not made, training to teach and a degree are, and should be mandatory. The days of sex tourists, failed no hoper falangs and gap students becoming 'teachers' here is something that is hopefully coming to an end.

Your English comprehension seems to be lacking. Where did I refer to the THAI authorities as "morons"?

I was refering to the morons that deem it necessary to have a degree to be a nurse, when it is patently obvious that one does not have to have a degree to be able to do normal level nursing. I did it for 26 years without one.

BTW you have illegally modified my post.

This is the full post:

Not having a degree does NOT make one unqualified to do a job. I was lucky enough to be able to get my nursing registration before the morons made it a degree entry level occupation and did it for 26 years. Now hardly anyone wnats to be a nurse, of course, as the pay is not commensurate with a degree level profession.

Conversly, having a degree in "media studies" or flower arranging is not going to make someone a good teacher, and I understand the requirement in Thailand is to have a degree in any subject, not necessarily in a teaching related subject.

I'm with the employers that prefer people that can DO a job, not those with a degree, which is pretty meaningless now anyway.

Media studies, rap etc etc .

Edited July 7, 2014 by CharlieH

[brucetefl]

I absolutely agree that Thai kids (and all kids) deserve teachers who have training and qualifications.

But how does a degree in Economics make you more qualified than someone who spent 10 years as a certified Microsoft technician?

How is that guy a sex tourist because he did not get a degree?

Qualifications make sense. But make them qualifications that relate to teaching English.

Next, remember your pay scale. If you need a lot of teachers that ill earn between 30,000 and 40,000 per month teaching conversational English (while the Thai teachers teach grammar, etc.) make the minimum qualification a decent TESOL certificate with Observed Teaching practice. heck, even make them apprentice for a month in Thai schools.

But if you want people with full teaching qualifications, best be prepared to pay 60,000 per month minimum.

Should an unqualified teacher be allowed to teach any more than an unqualified Doctor or car mechanic doing those jobs, I don't think so. Unfortunately you will have no problem finding work, hence the very poor standard of English in Thailand. Get a degree, teaching qualifications, experience and then come to Thailand to teach, if you love the place so much it should not be too difficult.

Not having a degree does NOT make one unqualified to do a job. I was lucky enough to be able to get my nursing registration before the morons made it a degree entry level occupation and did it for 26 years. Now hardly anyone wnats to be a nurse, of course, as the pay is not commensurate with a degree level profession.

Conversly, having a degree in "media studies" or flower arranging is not going to make someone a good teacher, and I understand the requirement in Thailand is to have a degree in any subject, not necessarily in a teaching related subject.

I'm with the employers that prefer people that can DO a job, not those with a degree, which is pretty meaningless now anyway.

Media studies, rap etc etc cheesy.gif cheesy.gif cheesy.gif .

.

So are calling the Thai authorities 'morons' for wanting qualified teachers? Sorry to burst your bubble but not having a degree DOES make you unqualified to teach here. Of course it is ignored which is something hopefully the junta will try and stop. Thai kids deserve better than anyone with a white face thinking they can teach English, they can't despite argument that teachers are born and not made, training to teach and a degree are, and should be mandatory. The days of sex tourists, failed no hoper falangs and gap students becoming 'teachers' here is something that is hopefully coming to an end.

[up-country_sinclair]

Sorry to burst your bubble but not having a degree DOES make you unqualified to teach here. Of course it is ignored which is something hopefully the junta will try and stop.

I completely agree. The relevant authorities should act swiftly and sternly. There are laws on the books and they should be enforced. Too many unscrupulous individuals have been profiting from lax enforcement for far too long. Their fear of what's around the next corner is palpable.

[brucetefl]

I have a friend, an American guy who's lived in and out of Thailand for nearly 40 years, Masters degree, fluent in speaking reading and writing Thai. Been married to the same Thai woman for over 30 years.

He claims that Thailand has had no complete overhaul in the government since Rama 1, and that, therefore, there are laws that contradict almost every other law.

I'm not sure if he's 100% serious or just 50% serious, but we certainly all know that there are many many laws in Thailand selectively enforced. That's not going to change anytime soon despite the rantings of a few people on these forums.

Thais tend to be very pragmatic. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I bring my own reasons behind the actions of others, but I think sometimes Thai administrators the same way. They realize it's a rule that you need to have a degree to hire A foreign English teacher, but I think they realize that's kind of dumb rule. So they do it anyway.

Just to let you know how little many Thais know about this field, about seven years ago I sat next to the permanent Sec. of education at a dinner. At that time I was still very involved in TEFL international. We began talking and I explained to her what I did. At that time the second most important person in the ministry of education had never heard of a TESOL certificate course. Not just my course, TEFL international, but any course of its kind.

Edited July 7, 2014 by brucetefl

[up-country_sinclair]

After they clamp down on those working illegally, the authorities should make a home country criminal background check mandatory for obtaining a work permit for teaching school age children. I believe as it stands now, this is selectively applied.

Thailand needs to keep the unqualified, the criminals and the paedophiles out of its classrooms. And the best way to do that is enforce the laws.

[brucetefl]

I think we agree.

No, I am not joking. We agree.

I guess where we might disagree is on what is "qualified".

How does a degree in Economics help one to be a more effective English teacher? I'm not trying to put down people with degrees in economics. I have a degree in economics. I just don't think it made me a better English teacher. Yes, it shows that I had the persistence to finish a four-year degree and write papers and take exams. But taking a four week TESOL certificate course made me a much more effective teacher.

I just threw out that internship idea on an earlier post. But why not? If you want to teach in Thailand, get some training in how to teach English and then be required to teach English in Thai school for three months. Free of charge. and you spend 10 hours a week teaching the Thai English teachers. Those who thrive and survive are allowed to continue and get a job with the work permit.

And before people start saying I'm doing this to benefit myself, right now my main job is running a degree program.

After they clamp down on those working illegally, the authorities should make a home country criminal background check mandatory for obtaining a work permit for teaching school age children. I believe as it stands now, this is selectively applied.

Thailand needs to keep the unqualified, the criminals and the paedophiles out of its classrooms. And the best way to do that is enforce the laws.

Edited July 7, 2014 by brucetefl

[Saradoc1972]

How does a degree in Economics help one to be a more effective English teacher? I'm not trying to put down people with degrees in economics. I have a degree in economics. I just don't think it made me a better English teacher. Yes, it shows that I had the persistence to finish a four-year degree and write papers and take exams. But taking a four week TESOL certificate course made me a much more effective teacher.

It probably will. Not directly, but indirectly, as I lined out in the bottom half of my post #102.

It will not mean you'll be a better teacher than anyone lacking a degree, it's no guarantee you'll be a great teacher at all.

But the probability of you being in the upper percentile of all the people taking that TEFL/TESOL and starting teaching is much higher for those qualities you listed above.

[brucetefl]

Thats a big assumption. Many people who do not have degrees could have attained them if they had chosen to earlier in life. They just made other choices based upon their circumstances at the time.

Using that same logic I am better than most of you because I have a masters degree.

Edited July 7, 2014 by brucetefl

[thaibeachlovers]

How does a degree in Economics help one to be a more effective English teacher? I'm not trying to put down people with degrees in economics. I have a degree in economics. I just don't think it made me a better English teacher. Yes, it shows that I had the persistence to finish a four-year degree and write papers and take exams. But taking a four week TESOL certificate course made me a much more effective teacher.

It probably will. Not directly, but indirectly, as I lined out in the bottom half of my post #102.

It will not mean you'll be a better teacher than anyone lacking a degree, it's no guarantee you'll be a great teacher at all.

But the probability of you being in the upper percentile of all the people taking that TEFL/TESOL and starting teaching is much higher for those qualities you listed above.

You are insulting everyone without a degree with that statement. For myself, I had to get a job when I left school, as there was no one to support me for 4 years and loans weren't available like now. When I left school, few people went to uni, but the country managed all right. I have had 3 careers in my life, and never needed a degree for any of them, though the ( uni educated ) powers that be have succunbed to the erroneous argument that degrees are necessary- an outright falsehood, and of benefit mainly to universities and the banks.

Pity the facts don't back you up. It is well known amongst old school nurses that the new ones with a degree are not as good as the hospital trained ones, because their training was mainly theory and a little practical, versus hospital trained nurses having a lot of practical experience.

Some employers won't employ people with a degree, because many have no practical skills, commonsense or problem solving ability. Of course people with a degree will deny that, but they would to justify spending 4 years obtaining a piece of paper that in many cases now has absolutely no value when it comes to obtaining a job.

Edited July 8, 2014 by thaibeachlovers

[SlyAnimal]

Employing a teacher with a degree, as opposed to one without, has 2x primary benefits to education providers.

1/ The education provider is assured that the teacher has a certain level of academic ability. This doesn't necessarily put them above all of the non degree holders, but it gives an assurance to the education provider that the teacher has at least reached a certain standard, which sets them above "some" of the non degree holders.

2/ At an academic institution, the institution wants to inspire students towards achieving success in their academic goals. The teachers at that institution are the role models which guide the students towards those goals, and help to give them inspiration. A teacher who has at least achieved some of those academic goals, will be a better role model (for these goals) than someone who hasn't.

If, for example, a teacher dropped out of school at the age of 12, how are they meant to inspire students towards working towards those academic goals?

Will they say, "You should just drop out of school now, life will be fine, you don't need to go to university or even to finish high school, education is a waste of time. Look at me, I never went to university, but I've still got a good job"?

Or maybe they'll say "Make sure you study hard, because otherwise you might end up having to work as an English teacher like me". Would either of these be a potential role model? Would a teacher who never even finished high school be respected by the students, and would they be an appropriate role model?

The quality of teaching from someone with, or without, a degree isn't dictated by whether they hold a degree or not. Their English proficiency, experience, relevant educational experience and personality are much more important. However, schools aren't just employing teachers to teach, they're employing teachers as role models, and that's why they want a degree.

That's also why they want teachers to dress well, not drink to excess, not to smoke or do drugs, be in good personal health/fitness, to be punctual, to not have a disagreeable or dishonest personality and to not have a criminal record. As they want teachers to embody everything which they would like their students to become, and these are all generally considered to be negative characteristics.

Of course, living up to all of these is a difficult task, so they're usually happy so long as their teachers don't do these in public, or at least not in front of the students. Likewise they often hire someone and then only later find out that the teacher wasn't what they expected, based on their CV and interview.