Global Times warns Hong Kong could become the next 'Ukraine or Thailand'

[webfact]

Global Times warns Hong Kong could become the next 'Ukraine or Thailand'
State mouthpiece known for bellicose editorials condemns sit-in protest in Central on Wednesday morning, says city must stay strong in face of upheaval
Lai Ying-kit

HONG KONG: -- The state-run newspaper Global Times has warned its readers that Hong Kong faces becoming the next Ukraine or Thailand if it embraces a period of “political upheaval”.

The nationalist newspaper was responding to a sit-in demonstration in Central on Wednesday morning, ahead of an expected large-scale occupation in the near future.

In an editorial on Thursday, the newspaper condemned the hundreds of participants in the overnight sit-in on Chater Road, saying they posed a threat to Hong Kong’s rule of law.

"Without the rule of law, Hong Kong could sink into the likes of Ukraine or Thailand and all kinds of dangerous phenomena could happen," it said.

Full story: http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1545567/global-times-warns-hong-kong-could-become-next-ukraine-or-thailand

-- SOUTH CHINA MORNING POST 2014-07-04

[score keeper]

neglected to say which state the mouthpiece belongs to. if it is that global war mongering, murdering, arms dealing, barbarian govt, what else do you expect them to say. it how they make the billion of dollars.

Edited July 4, 2014 by score keeper

[NeutralVoice]

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neglected to say which state the mouthpiece belongs to. if it is that global war mongering, murdering, arms dealing, barbarian govt, what else do you expect them to say. it how they make the billion of dollars.

I think the paper didn't neglect to say anything. The words - "State-run" and "The nationalist newspaper" are more than enough.

You, however, omitted to directly name the government you described with your words. Are you annoyed that such government would compare one of its main cities as falling into the hands of street mobs with the demands that are either ridiculous or absolutely reasonable depending on political affiliation?

So, the pro-government newspaper is warning people of impending military takeover? or of impending anti-government mobs?

Now, from Thailand to Ukraine - that's a bit of a jump.

[Berkshire]

If they're talking about military rule (or pseudo), I'd take the Thai military over the Chinese or Russian military any day. Not even close.

[bangon04]

This is nonsense. Hong Kongers are mostly too busy making money to worry about the politics, or eventual armed protest.

What they will do is move their money out of Hong Kong eventually. A lot already moved to UK.

It doesn't matter because there are millions of Chinese mainlanders waiting to take over the money making activities, buy up the overpriced property, and put in place a local government which does not rock the boat.

Haven't we learnt yet that the Chinese do not need to use violence - they just buy up whatever the want to control, or move in unopposed. The west will make silly speeches about freedom and democracy, then ultimately do nothing at all.

[tingtongteesood]

The people of HK have a right to retain the system they have, it has worked for a long time, they like it and the English made an agreement with China that they would leave it alone for a hundred years. Now the Chinese government is trying to do what they want - screw 'em ! HK has the right and the people are exercising it, get used to it commies, that is how a democracy works....

[Suradit69]

This is nonsense. Hong Kongers are mostly too busy making money to worry about the politics, or eventual armed protest.

What they will do is move their money out of Hong Kong eventually. A lot already moved to UK.

It doesn't matter because there are millions of Chinese mainlanders waiting to take over the money making activities, buy up the overpriced property, and put in place a local government which does not rock the boat.

Haven't we learnt yet that the Chinese do not need to use violence - they just buy up whatever the want to control, or move in unopposed. The west will make silly speeches about freedom and democracy, then ultimately do nothing at all.

"What they will do is move their money out of Hong Kong eventually. A lot already moved to UK"

Sounds like Cyprus is selling EU residency on the cheap to Mainlanders.

The rules of China's closed capital system mean that citizens cannot move more than $50,000 abroad a year, but some wealthy Chinese appear worried about their home economy and are using money-transfer agents, private jets, and even carrying bags of cash across the border to park their money in countries like Cyprus (anyone who spends €300,000 on a property in Cyprus is provided permanent European Union residency).

Unless those in Hong Kong have existing connections to UK I can't imagine what the attraction would be there. The banking system is corrupt, the economy struggling to right itself and the population tremendously racist.

[uK] banking scandals demolished a convenient myth: that the banking crash was all the fault of a few colourful rogues like Fred the Shred of RBS and Adam Applegarth of Northern Rock. We have been reminded, instead, that the rot was far more widespread. Incompetence, corruption and greed have been endemic in British banking. The RBS/NatWest computer failure illustrated the incompetence. Millions of households and firms now have to clean up the mess caused by accidental missed payments, bounced cheques and cash shortages.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/jun/30/vince-cable-banking-scandal-coalition

[Mudcrab]

The people of HK have a right to retain the system they have, it has worked for a long time, they like it and the English made an agreement with China that they would leave it alone for a hundred years. Now the Chinese government is trying to do what they want - screw 'em ! HK has the right and the people are exercising it, get used to it commies, that is how a democracy works....

Hong Kong is now part of China, there is no democracy and the only rights are those that the central government allow.

[canuckamuck]

It was always only a matter of time before Beijing brought HK properly under the heel.

I am surprised at how well it has gone until now.

[HannahD]

It is nearly certain that the people on Taiwan are closely watching the imposition of Beijing rule on Hong Kong in spite of promises of One country-Two Systems. Even more interesting is the fact that apparently Beijing doesn't care what people in Taiwan think because Beijing believes that nothing can stop their eventual takeover of Taiwan.

[Chris Lawrence]

If you have free speech you end up with a coup; is that what they mean about Thailand?

"The overseas edition of another state-run newspaper, People’s Daily, also denounced two Hong Kong student groups’ who organised the Chater Road sit-in.

It said the groups were using illegal means to pressure the Hong Kong government into accepting the idea of public nomination.

Public nomination – allowing registered voters to nominate candidates for an election – does “not fulfil the Basic Law requirements”, the state mouthpiece said."

How dare they expect the public nominate candidates for an election?

[boomerangutang]

Marge Thatcher was called the Iron Lady because she put on a personna of being tough. They should have called her the 'Pewter Lady' because she gave in on giving HK to the Chinese. She didn't have to. The Chinese military at that time (1990's) would have been no match for combined US and British forces. In late 19th century, the Chinese royals had a signed agreement which ceded the most important parts (Victoria and Kowloon) to the British 'IN PERPETUITY.' - source - What about 'in perpetuity' did Thatcher and British brass not understand? The problems cropping up now, in HK, were inevitable, and it's surprising they haven't shown up sooner. Hate to say it, but worse is on the horizon.

[fasteddie]

Marge Thatcher was called the Iron Lady because she put on a personna of being tough. They should have called her the 'Pewter Lady' because she gave in on giving HK to the Chinese. She didn't have to. The Chinese military at that time (1990's) would have been no match for combined US and British forces. In late 19th century, the Chinese royals had a signed agreement which ceded the most important parts (Victoria and Kowloon) to the British 'IN PERPETUITY.' - source - What about 'in perpetuity' did Thatcher and British brass not understand? The problems cropping up now, in HK, were inevitable, and it's surprising they haven't shown up sooner. Hate to say it, but worse is on the horizon.

And what gives you the idea the yanks would have backed the Brits?

[boomerangutang]

Marge Thatcher was called the Iron Lady because she put on a personna of being tough. They should have called her the 'Pewter Lady' because she gave in on giving HK to the Chinese. She didn't have to. The Chinese military at that time (1990's) would have been no match for combined US and British forces. In late 19th century, the Chinese royals had a signed agreement which ceded the most important parts (Victoria and Kowloon) to the British 'IN PERPETUITY.' - source - What about 'in perpetuity' did Thatcher and British brass not understand? The problems cropping up now, in HK, were inevitable, and it's surprising they haven't shown up sooner. Hate to say it, but worse is on the horizon.

And what gives you the idea the yanks would have backed the Brits?

Are you kidding? Since 1814 the US and Brits have always backed each other - in major conflicts.

[Maestro]

neglected to say which state the mouthpiece belongs to. if it is that global war mongering, murdering, arms dealing, barbarian govt, what else do you expect them to say. it how they make the billion of dollars.

From the context of the OP, I understand that it is the Chinese government.

[spidermike007]

If they're talking about military rule (or pseudo), I'd take the Thai military over the Chinese or Russian military any day. Not even close.

Absolutely spot on. How many people have the junta leaders murdered yet? I do not believe a single one. The CHINESE govt. murders it's own citizens for sport. They do it for fun. They harvest organs for profit. They rarely consider the well being of their citizens when making decisions. It is always about the "State". To refer to the Chinese Politburo, as a heinous group of billionaire pigs would be kind and generous.

Spidermike

Chaiyaphum, Thailand

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Maestro]

Removed an off-topic post.

[fasteddie]

Marge Thatcher was called the Iron Lady because she put on a personna of being tough. They should have called her the 'Pewter Lady' because she gave in on giving HK to the Chinese. She didn't have to. The Chinese military at that time (1990's) would have been no match for combined US and British forces. In late 19th century, the Chinese royals had a signed agreement which ceded the most important parts (Victoria and Kowloon) to the British 'IN PERPETUITY.' - source - What about 'in perpetuity' did Thatcher and British brass not understand? The problems cropping up now, in HK, were inevitable, and it's surprising they haven't shown up sooner. Hate to say it, but worse is on the horizon.

And what gives you the idea the yanks would have backed the Brits?

Are you kidding? Since 1814 the US and Brits have always backed each other - in major conflicts.

Vietnam? Suez? Falklands?

[Thongkorn]

why would China kill the golden goose, HK make a lot of money for china,

[boomerangutang]

why would China kill the golden goose, HK make a lot of money for china,

Why does China do a lot of the belligerent things it does?

Reason: China wants as much control as possible, over its dominions and over properties it doesn't rightfully own, such as Tibet, Taiwan and the S.China Sea.

Similar to the dynamics of some Middle East countries and N.Korea; China is insecure about it's control, so it naturally become more belligerent.

You know the expression: 'Give 'em an inch, and they'll want to take a mile.'

That's China.

[muchogra]

China has allowed gay marriage performed at the British Consuate (or Embassy) in China. However, recently, the HK Government disallowed such practice in the British Consulate in HK. Explain this paradox to me!

Have people traveled and lived in HK? And for that matter, have people traveled and lived in the mainland recently? To me, it's nothing like some posters have said about HK and China. There's nothing communist about them. In fact, what's worrisome is how they are being corrupted in too fast a pace to generate havoc!

[NeverSure]

why would China kill the golden goose, HK make a lot of money for china,

China doesn't want to kill the golden goose. It wants to own it. It wants to own everything it can get its hands on.

As for the analogy with the Ukraine, Russia wants the Ukraine and will use military power to get it. China wants Hong Kong...

[JohnnyJazz]

Marge Thatcher was called the Iron Lady because she put on a personna of being tough. They should have called her the 'Pewter Lady' because she gave in on giving HK to the Chinese. She didn't have to. The Chinese military at that time (1990's) would have been no match for combined US and British forces. In late 19th century, the Chinese royals had a signed agreement which ceded the most important parts (Victoria and Kowloon) to the British 'IN PERPETUITY.' - source - What about 'in perpetuity' did Thatcher and British brass not understand? The problems cropping up now, in HK, were inevitable, and it's surprising they haven't shown up sooner. Hate to say it, but worse is on the horizon.

Please follow the link below and and you will understand Thatcher position :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Territories

This link also will also being a reply to a number of other misinformed posts.

[Thakkar]

If they're talking about military rule (or pseudo), I'd take the Thai military over the Chinese or Russian military any day. Not even close.

Really? The Thai military whose best record of kills is against it's own people v the Russian army that defeated Hitler?

The Russian army defeated Hitler?

My grandfather would like to have a word with you if he was still alive.

Try reading history instead of just listening to your grandfather (may he rest in peace--I mean no disrespect to the genuine sacrifice made by the likes of him), the Soviet Army did indeed make by far the greater contribution to defeating Hitler. The only reason more in the West don't know about this is because Holywood haven't made enough movies about it.

T

Ps oops...looks like Faseddie beat me to it with a more detailed response.

Edited July 5, 2014 by Thakkar

[Thakkar]

I think people, including people in HK fail to realize that China has legitimate interests in HK. Paradoxically, nobody disputes that China is the sovereign power.

The dispute has always been over HK's "high degree of autonomy" as promised in The Joint Declaration and HK's mini constitution, The Basic Law.

The Chinese Communist Party (CCP) would like the narrowest definition of "a high degree of autonomy" while most people in HK would like the widest possible definition of the same.

In consistently trying to suppress HK's free-wheeling political ways, the CCP is acting out of fear, not strength. It is a party that came to power through revolution on the back of an idea: economic fairness/the emancipation of destitute peasants from feudal oppression. It has remained in power by incorporating, or ruthlessly suppressing all opposition.

Western interference in places like Ukraine and Georgia aiming to bring NATO--an anti Soviet (now perceived as anti-Russian by the Russians and anti-Chinese by the Chinese, a tool to perpetuate American hegemony and check the "peaceful rise of China" as they put it ) military alliance--to the borders of Russia have heightened existing fears in China. These fears existed well before Ukraine and Georgia, but have now been "confirmed" in their eyes.

For this reason, and the realization that their hold own power is not entirely legitimate, The CCP sees grassroots political developments in HK as a beachhead from which The West and their anti CCP allies could topple the CCP. This isn't entirely a case of self preservation. Given China's late nineteenth century and early twentieth century history of exploitation by the Western Powers and Japan, the dangers are real. Of course self preservation is part and parcel of this as they see themselves as the only viable defenders of China's independence.

HK people's aspirations for a freer society, the right to elect their leaders in a credible fashion and demands for a hands off policy from Mainland China are legitimate but they need to take the above into consideration. China's interests and the CCP's fears are also real.

The reality is that HK is very dependent on Mainland China--for food, water, electricity, inward investment, investment destination, tourists, etc. Mainland China needs HK too, but not to the same extent. While The CCP is in power, HK will never be *given* full freedoms and rights--Joint Declaration or no Joint Declaration. The people will have to fight for every bit of it. While doing so, it would be best to remember that The CCP's fears are real, The CCP also has rights, which, to some extent, are also legitimate.

T

[boomerangutang]

The Brits could have and should have hung on to the (most important) parts of HK - which they were legally entitled to do. I see nothing but contunued downhill slide for residents there.

[metisdead]

An off topic deflectin post has been removed as well as the replies. This is not about who won WWII.

[spidermike007]

why would China kill the golden goose, HK make a lot of money for china,

Why does China do a lot of the belligerent things it does?

Reason: China wants as much control as possible, over its dominions and over properties it doesn't rightfully own, such as Tibet, Taiwan and the S.China Sea.

Similar to the dynamics of some Middle East countries and N.Korea; China is insecure about it's control, so it naturally become more belligerent.

You know the expression: 'Give 'em an inch, and they'll want to take a mile.'

That's China.

That is correct. Just look at the oppression of Yunnan Province. They essentially erased thousands of years of culture, in order to create stability for the state, and to consolidate power over that vast region, which was in and out of Chinas power for centuries. Same goes for the Uyghur areas. China will continue its conquest of the entire South China Sea area. Who knows what it will take, but they are determined. And with their 2 million man army, and the kind of budget their military now has, little will stop them. I just hope it does not result in a world war. They are relentless. Although it sounds very dramatic, I think their end goal is world conquest. With the US, they will only have to call in their financial markers. No war will be necessary, as they basically own the US already. With other powers, not so sure.

[impulse]

With the US, they will only have to call in their financial markers. No war will be necessary, as they basically own the US already. With other powers, not so sure.

Who owns who? They hold some US debt. A couple of thousand dollars worth for each of their 1.5 Billion people. Big whoop. Peanuts compared to their own internal and external debt.

Call in their financial markers? How? Someone would have to buy the debt. $$ Trillions. Who's big enough? Dump it on the market and they hurt themselves worse than they hurt the USA.

Quit loaning the USA more? How? They aren't out in the market buying USD. They get USD as a function of their trade surplus with the USA. Where else can they invest trillions of dollars and make a safe return on it? No more USD would mean no trade surplus, and no hard currency for stuff they can't buy in RMB. Like oil and food.

Cut off trade to the USA? Less cheap stuff in Walmart. That's going to hurt the USA? China needs the USA a lot more than the USA needs China.

Piss off the USA, and see what happens when their hard currency accounts are frozen... I guess they can trade in Rubles, or whatever Venezuela has to offer.

Taiwan is watching what's happening in HK and every time the CCP tightens the screws, Taiwan gets a little less likely to go quietly. That, and there are too many scores remaining to be settled from 1949 when the KMT looted the treasury and beat a retreat to Taiwan (and Thailand, too- something to think about)

[boomerangutang]

Currently Thailand is in China's 'sphere of influence.' ....along with Laos, Cambodia. Vietnam, Burma and Malaysia are a bit more independent. With Chinese-Thais running most businesses in Thailand, and most Thai politicians being Chinese-Thai, it doesn't take a rubricks cube genius to picture China stretching its tentacles to absorb Thailand. Already, heavy duty highways and speedo trains are being planned and/or built to connect Bangkok with China. Yesterday; Autonomous Region of Tibet. Today: Hong Kong. Tomorrow: Autonomous Region of Thailand. Get ready folks, the groundwork is already being laid.