Warehouse filled with rotten rice in Nakhon Si Thammarat

[h90]

Cue the Red TV apologists like Mango Bob to explain that it is all a misunderstanding....

but but Suthep......

[h90]

Sorry, but...

fires might have been caused by aluminium phosphate interacting with relative humidity

What is aluminium phosphate doing in a rice warehouse ?

Try to contaminate the rice above 10 ppm ( 10 microgram per kg ) and you can forget your export to the EU

but you can still export it in Asia and Africa...everywhere where you can fix such small problems with some donation....

[luk AJ]

Sorry, but...

fires might have been caused by aluminium phosphate interacting with relative humidity

What is aluminium phosphate doing in a rice warehouse ?

Try to contaminate the rice above 10 ppm ( 10 microgram per kg ) and you can forget your export to the EU

Aluminium phosphate is a solid material when exposed to moisture it release toxic gasses which will kill insects rodents etc.. The storage cannot be accessed for 3 days. This is a very comon practice and allowed for rice disinfection. The aluminium phosphate will start burning when there is direct contact with water such as a drip or leak. This will create a fierce fire which cannoy be extinghuished with water.

[Thai at Heart]

Sorry, but...

fires might have been caused by aluminium phosphate interacting with relative humidity

What is aluminium phosphate doing in a rice warehouse ?

Try to contaminate the rice above 10 ppm ( 10 microgram per kg ) and you can forget your export to the EU

but you can still export it in Asia and Africa...everywhere where you can fix such small problems with some donation....

Its still allowed for shipments to Europe. It disapates very quickly. Most would use magnesium phosphide in strips because it easier to handle but of course it costs more.

To do this fumigation properly they should have enclosed all the rice in plastic and cleaned the building. Can you imagine how many square miles of plastic sheet you need to fumigate 19,000,000 tonnes.

Impossible

[phutoie2]

These greedy bastards sure tricked Yingluck. She should have been out every day inspecting rice silos instead of wasting her time hanging around in Bangkok trying to run the country.

When did she ever try to run the country. That was already contracted out to Thaksin and his toadies.

see that one went completly over your head.

[mikemac]

Whatever the politics of it, it's sad to see one of Thailand's iconic products have its reputation destroyed in this way. French wine, Swiss chocolate, Thai rice. Once I would always choose Thai rice as the best available, now I wouldn't eat it unless certain of its origin. It will be a long climb back to re-establish its reputation.. Who, given a choice, would eat rice with the possibility of contamination, aflatoxin, weevils, etc? Only those without choice..

I would like to know how they get rid of dodgy rice, apart from burying it or burning it.

Thai people are very fussy about the food they buy, watch them shopping in the markets. When you buy rice at the markets like Wororot Market in Chiang Mai, the rice is on display in large tubs and is scooped into a plastic bag and weighed, right in front of you. If the rice was no good people would not buy it, or indeed try to sell it.

And I can't see BigC selling packaged rice that was full of weevils or poisoned.

[EyesWideOpen]

Whatever the politics of it, it's sad to see one of Thailand's iconic products have its reputation destroyed in this way. French wine, Swiss chocolate, Thai rice. Once I would always choose Thai rice as the best available, now I wouldn't eat it unless certain of its origin. It will be a long climb back to re-establish its reputation.. Who, given a choice, would eat rice with the possibility of contamination, aflatoxin, weevils, etc? Only those without choice..

I would like to know how they get rid of dodgy rice, apart from burying it or burning it.

Thai people are very fussy about the food they buy, watch them shopping in the markets. When you buy rice at the markets like Wororot Market in Chiang Mai, the rice is on display in large tubs and is scooped into a plastic bag and weighed, right in front of you. If the rice was no good people would not buy it, or indeed try to sell it.

And I can't see BigC selling packaged rice that was full of weevils or poisoned.

Hahaha that is one of my fears , they will try to flog this rotten rice on Thai consumers.

I am going to make a point of buying only Vietnamese or Indian rice...

Not sure of the solution. I would say destroy what has obviously gone bad,

quickly sell what they can in the open market at very low prices, and what

ever they cannot sell give it away to starving nations. And then start fresh.

This will be the only way to salvage the reputation of Thai rice. Otherwise for

years buyers of Thai rice will be wondering if they are going to get the

old crappy rice instead of the fresh crop..

Edited July 9, 2014 by EyesWideOpen

[Trembly]

Warehouse rents would still be peanuts compared to the suspected total losses. What about the 60 billion that was sent to Hong Kong via underground triad banking system, as reported in the other paper?

Edited July 9, 2014 by Trembly

[Baerboxer]

The scam is that the goverment said the rice was all good an not missing. They were so arrogant that they would not admit the problems and rectify them. By admitting storage was bad they might had to stop the program and they did not want that. So the blew even more taxpayer money. So they are guilty of gross negligence.

You do understand that not a single soul in the world ever beleived for one second that the rice wouldn't get any worse because it had been stored for a year or two. Every buyer in the world knows that the stuff reduces in quality and some of it will inevitably go mouldy. There was no way on earth to build enough space to be able to manage storing all this stuff and it would have been a crazy expense to do so. Basically, you would need at least 40% vacant space sitting around in order to be able to move the stuff around. All the buildings are full to bursting point.

So, ok, now it is gross negligence, not a scam. A scam would imply they got paid in some way.

Either you like playing devil's advocate or stringing a thread out for amusement or are genuinely a Thaksin supporter. Who knows?

Yingluck and various of her ministries and representatives have for many months being saying there was no problems. All the rice stocks were there and ready for sale. She has never been able or willing to provide detailed accounts - purchase costs, operations cost, sales revenues or details of losses/gains.

During this period she and several of her underlings also appear to have released details of fictitious deals on rice sales. Yingluck, the commerce and finance ministries have all confirmed over and over again that no rice is missing and everything is well, and rebuffed individuals and organizations that dare say opposite. Yingluck also instructed a check which she reported, after it was carried out wonderfully quickly, supported what she has been saying.

Now it looks like she may have been lying, like she did when she vowed farmers would be paid.

PTP created a complex scheme and shrouded it in mystery. Issuing contradictory figures and statements and making vague unsubstantiated comments. Their intentions were to sweep all of this away with some of the 2.2 trillion they wanted to borrow off budget, without parliamentary checks.

The problems could include:

• rice stolen from the warehouses
• rice invoiced but never really received
• high quality rice sold and replaced with lower quality rice.
• organizations forging export documents when really selling rice on the home market
• rice stored inappropriately
• infestation left untreated.

PTP have failed to present even basic accounts on this scheme. But, by most reckoning billions of baht are unaccounted for. Certainly the farmers weren't paid stretching back to last September in some cases. Some are still waiting.

The buildings are not all full to bursting point - some have a veneer of rice sacks covering scaffolding to give that appearance.

This is going to take some sorting out, even for a good team of forensic accountants. I'm sure the money trails will be even less transparent.

Again throughout all this Yingluck has maintained there are absolutely no problems or issues. You can call that gross negligence if you want or blind stupidity. Looks more like deliberate lying as part of a massive fraud. Unless she comes up with some detailed accounts and a large number of "fall guys" she could find this one harder to get out of than the Ample Rich Shares case.

How about a voice of reason who knows that the rice mess would have lost plenty on paper without Yingluck or her bunch taking a baht.

The loss would have easily occurred without any fraud at all. I am still waiting for anything conclusive to show a PTP scam that goes beyond theft of packed product to the tune of a couple tens of thousands of tonnes.

You think Yingluck stole the rice. You think anyone beyond the local guys know which warehouse is a mess or not. I have dealt in agriculture in thailand for many years.

Yes go to bangkok and get a report on stock from a govt office. Then go and see the reality. And this goes globally. Rarely does a govt operation anywhere in the world do a first rate job of anything agricultural.

I am still awaiting the discovery of the lost 3mn tonnes everyone talks about as the height of the scam. That is the real story, not rotten rice on the floor.

I'm sure you are right in that this mess would have lost plenty on paper, without anyone stealing or acting negligently.

I don't accuse Yingluck of stealing rice. Even she isn't that dumb; well her advisers anyway. I'm sure the financial trails associated with any wrongdoing will meander into a veritable Gordian Knot. We will have to see where they lead, should they be uncovered and pursued.

There appear to be issues in the control inventory and money, both actual and accounting. It will take some time to unravel.

If this was the difference between the pledge price paid and the prices it is then sold for, that's a government decision. Any loss becomes the cost of the subsidy which has a social aspect to it. The government and people who elected them, may consider this cost worth the social benefits and that is their right to decide.

However, the accounting and reporting and overall management has been piss poor made worse with blatant lying to claim otherwise. Yingluck and PTP's repeated insistence of no problems and silly claims about secret non existent purchase orders have fueled speculation as to other potential issues.

Some people have made money out of this scheme through defrauding the Thai taxpayer. Maybe millers,transport companies, rice export businesses or the warehouse owners who provided a some what inferior service at no doubt premium costs. A lot of people seem to have put their trust in PTP or another Thaksin proxy party being in power for many years and allowing this to go unchecked.

At best, Yingluck is guilty of massive negligence and incompetence in doing the job she swore and oath to do. Consciously not bothering to do the job you swore an oath to do, and taking the salary to do it. Is that not fraud? Whether she benefited out of any other criminal acts in this scheme is irrelevant. She also made matters fare worse by continued lying in the hope it will all go away. Something she is still seemingly trying to do. I doubt she received one baht personally. But I would not be surprised to learn some of the unaccounted money made its way into PTP coffers for redistribution. Will be very hard to trace and prove as most white collar crime is.

[mikemac]

Warehouse rents would still be peanuts compared to the suspected total losses. What about the 60 billion that was sent to Hong Kong via underground triad banking system, as reported in the other paper?

Hey Trembly - Your comment gave me a thought ; What if this rice scam is just the tip of the iceberg and was purposely designed to fail in order to take the spotlight off the real scams ? And Yingluck was picked to be the fall guy. But big bro forgot to tell her.

Surely the Shinawatra regime would not be that rotten, would they ?

[Thai at Heart]

Whatever the politics of it, it's sad to see one of Thailand's iconic products have its reputation destroyed in this way. French wine, Swiss chocolate, Thai rice. Once I would always choose Thai rice as the best available, now I wouldn't eat it unless certain of its origin. It will be a long climb back to re-establish its reputation.. Who, given a choice, would eat rice with the possibility of contamination, aflatoxin, weevils, etc? Only those without choice..

I would like to know how they get rid of dodgy rice, apart from burying it or burning it.

Thai people are very fussy about the food they buy, watch them shopping in the markets. When you buy rice at the markets like Wororot Market in Chiang Mai, the rice is on display in large tubs and is scooped into a plastic bag and weighed, right in front of you. If the rice was no good people would not buy it, or indeed try to sell it.

And I can't see BigC selling packaged rice that was full of weevils or poisoned.

CP will turn it into pigfeed and other types of animal fodder.

Would be nice to see which grades and years they claim to have in stock. What odds they have sold all the good stuff at lower grades to traders who upgraded it?

So on paper they are meant to have top quality but in reality have rubbish.

[Thai at Heart]

I'm sure you are right in that this mess would have lost plenty on paper, without anyone stealing or acting negligently.

I don't accuse Yingluck of stealing rice. Even she isn't that dumb; well her advisers anyway. I'm sure the financial trails associated with any wrongdoing will meander into a veritable Gordian Knot. We will have to see where they lead, should they be uncovered and pursued.

There appear to be issues in the control inventory and money, both actual and accounting. It will take some time to unravel.

If this was the difference between the pledge price paid and the prices it is then sold for, that's a government decision. Any loss becomes the cost of the subsidy which has a social aspect to it. The government and people who elected them, may consider this cost worth the social benefits and that is their right to decide.

However, the accounting and reporting and overall management has been piss poor made worse with blatant lying to claim otherwise. Yingluck and PTP's repeated insistence of no problems and silly claims about secret non existent purchase orders have fueled speculation as to other potential issues.

Some people have made money out of this scheme through defrauding the Thai taxpayer. Maybe millers,transport companies, rice export businesses or the warehouse owners who provided a some what inferior service at no doubt premium costs. A lot of people seem to have put their trust in PTP or another Thaksin proxy party being in power for many years and allowing this to go unchecked.

At best, Yingluck is guilty of massive negligence and incompetence in doing the job she swore and oath to do. Consciously not bothering to do the job you swore an oath to do, and taking the salary to do it. Is that not fraud? Whether she benefited out of any other criminal acts in this scheme is irrelevant. She also made matters fare worse by continued lying in the hope it will all go away. Something she is still seemingly trying to do. I doubt she received one baht personally. But I would not be surprised to learn some of the unaccounted money made its way into PTP coffers for redistribution. Will be very hard to trace and prove as most white collar crime is.

So finally, someone understands that the 700bn is probably the loss between the purchase and sale price.

So now we are talking about possible accounting fraud in the system. That there might be dodgy grade marks and theft in the system. The accusation is 3,000,000 tonnes missing. This might be true, it might not be. Not easy to misplace 3,000,000 mt. Its a lot of rice. How could it be done? False invoicing to the farmers, but 3,000,000 milled rice makes up about 5,500,000 to the farmers. That is virtually one whole crop in a given region. An enormous amount.

Could it be done? Yes. But it would need an enormous amount of compliant farmers to put their names to it, millers to process it, warehouses to produce the paperwork and the list goes on.

Did Yingluck know about this? Who knows? Could and should Yingluck have known about it? Yup. Will they be able to prove it, if she did? I doubt it.

What proof is there yet? Less than a huyndred thousand tonnes missing so far. Not looking good, unless the crime is in one single place.

So now, what is she guilty of if anything? Willfully doing nothing to stop it, if she knew about it. That is bad. As political crimes go, its bad. Is it an organised red shirt scam? So far at 100,000 mT of missing rice. Hardly. People on here are aruging that PTP must have got their mits onto the missing 700bn. Its beyond me how it can be so hard to discover accounting problems for this much rice. It is an enormous figure of the real one. There will have to be provinces where they expect to have 2,000,000 MT of rice buy only 1,000,000 in the warehouse. A million tonnes of rice takes up an astronomical amount of space. Massive.

They need to unearth an enormous amount of missing and misgraded rice, and then trace the invoices and bank payments to farmers for nonexistant rice. As for as I know, that should all be in the Bank of Agriculture records right? It shouldn't be too hard to find. If there is going to be a crime, it will involve one or two companies closely connected to PTP, and it will have had to have been on an enormous scale.

[Trembly]

Warehouse rents would still be peanuts compared to the suspected total losses. What about the 60 billion that was sent to Hong Kong via underground triad banking system, as reported in the other paper?

Hey Trembly - Your comment gave me a thought ; What if this rice scam is just the tip of the iceberg and was purposely designed to fail in order to take the spotlight off the real scams ? And Yingluck was picked to be the fall guy. But big bro forgot to tell her.

Surely the Shinawatra regime would not be that rotten, would they ?

That's not very far from where my thoughts are. You don't have to be a forensic accountant or rice expert to see that the rice scheme as-was was veritable scam bonanza, with great big holes all over it that can be worked and re-worked in so many different ways; the scam that keeps on giving.

In fact many professionals whose job it is to concern themselves with such things said as much before and during the scheme, in Thailand and abroad.

[Artisi]

The unraveling of the rice scam continues..... Smart posters on TV knew it was a scam

all along, but it is certainly interesting to get an inside look at it. I also look forward to the

arrests starting as well. The red shirt spin should be interesting as the scope of the scam gets

larger and larger. Perhaps the military planted the rotten rice there ? Also Images like the one

in this story are doing incalculable damage to the reputation of Thai rice on the world

market.

So was any of it nicked?

At this point nobody knows. This rice audit is going to be done in about a month.

I think it will be a combination of invoicing for phantom bags of rice, and poor grade

rice being substituted for high grade rice. The rotting rice in the warehouses is just

an outgrowth of the general scam, where they have to put the rice somewhere. The mills

were making a pretty satang off of the storage costs. Seem to remember

that within a fairly brief period of time, the storage costs would exceed the value of the

rice.

So, OK. Whilst everyone is running around screaming scam, I am a little lost quite how anyone would profit from a pile of rice going mouldy.

That's OK. Of course letting it go mouldy instead of selling it has to be a scam????????huh?

No, being paid by the rice scheme or is that scam to store rotten rice would qualify as a scam, unless of course you are a PTP lover then everything is OK.

[Thai at Heart]

No, being paid by the rice scheme or is that scam to store rotten rice would qualify as a scam, unless of course you are a PTP lover then everything is OK.

What do you mean being paid by the rice scheme?

That would be farmers, millers, trucking companies and warehouse people. They all got paid as far as I know. If they scammed the system, lock em up. Not sure what that has to do with PTP, but there we go.

[Trembly]

No, being paid by the rice scheme or is that scam to store rotten rice would qualify as a scam, unless of course you are a PTP lover then everything is OK.

What do you mean being paid by the rice scheme?

That would be farmers, millers, trucking companies and warehouse people. They all got paid as far as I know. If they scammed the system, lock em up. Not sure what that has to do with PTP, but there we go.

They got paid from emergencies funds that were requested when it became apparent that the money initially budgeted to pay them was just not there.

[givenall]

Warehouse filled with rotten rice in Nakhon Si Thammarat

BANGKOK: -- Rice inspectors were shocked when they found out that the rice stored at a warehouse in Thung Song district of Nakhon Si Thammarat was almost completely damaged during an inspection on Tuesday.

The inspection team led by Mrs Orawan Khumsap, inspector-general of the Prime Minister’s Office, inspected the warehouse belonging to Sin Thong Dee Parawood Company which was contracted to store 60,068 sacks of pledged rice each weighs 100 kilogrammes.

The officials were stunned at the sight of rotten rice scattered on the ground of the warehouse while the rice sacks were disorderly stacked and infested with weevils. There were traces of several rice sacks being gutted.

Pol Lt-Col Pachon Niamrin, deputy superintendent of Kapang police station, said that the warehouse was struck by fire three times on March 4, 2011, February 21 and April 5 this year.

However, he ruled out arson saying that the fires might have been caused by aluminium phosphate interacting with relative humidity.

Mrs Orawan said samples of the rice from the warehouse would be taken for further examination.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/warehouse-filled-rotten-rice-nakhon-si-thammarat/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=warehouse-filled-rotten-rice-nakhon-si-thammarat

-- Thai PBS 2014-07-08

I guess this is why ex PM is asking the court to revisitq her convection and over turn. Justice Thai style.

Sent from my C1904 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Robby nz]

They have said they will disregard any amounts missing under 5% of what is supposed to be in any one warehouse, which I think is a mistake.

No one knows just how much rice is actually supposed to be there, anything from 10 to 22 million tons have been quoted by the former minister of commerce and others.

If they find that there is only 10 million tons in storage then 5% comes to half a million tons.

If they find 20 million tons then the 5% is 1 million tons which is one third of what was claimed to be missing.

So with that policy they may not actually be counting as missing anything up to a million tons.

Discovering how much is supposed to be there will be another difficult job for the accountants.

From how much was pledged, which shouldn't be to difficult to work out, they will have to deduct :

Loss in milling. Moisture loss and amount sold, and that wont be easy given the secrecy of things like G 2 G deals and general lack of transparent or non existent accounting.

There was also supposed to be some given as international and local aid.

And to complicate things there is rice that was sold into the scheme from other countries which may have been used to replace Thai rice that had already gone missing.

Note !

Now that the scheme has officially ended and the warehouses locked down a true accounting can be done.

This inspection is only going to actually find out what is missing from the warehouse and silo inventories not what is missing from the whole scheme.

Once the total that is actually in the warehouses is determined then it will be up to the accountants to compare the total tonnage that has been brought into the scheme with what is there at the end of the inspection and determine where the difference has gone.

Only then will it be known just how much rice has gone missing.

The next step will be to follow the money trail, that could take longer than the warehouse inspections.

[Thai at Heart]

No, being paid by the rice scheme or is that scam to store rotten rice would qualify as a scam, unless of course you are a PTP lover then everything is OK.

What do you mean being paid by the rice scheme?

That would be farmers, millers, trucking companies and warehouse people. They all got paid as far as I know. If they scammed the system, lock em up. Not sure what that has to do with PTP, but there we go.

They got paid from emergencies funds that were requested when it became apparent that the money initially budgeted to pay them was just not there.

Please explain how you are supposed to generate extra funds to fund anything if you buy,

1 kilogram for 1,000 baht, then pay to process it, 200 baht, ship it, 200 baht, store it 200 baht, and only end up with 600gs after processing @ a cost of 1600 baht

Which equals 2,666 baht per kilo spent out into the market, but the sale price is only say, 750 baht.

So for every kilogram you sell you are losing say, 1916 baht.

Therefore the MONEY RUNS OUT VERY FAST and you have to get more. So now they have 19,000,000 tonnes minus a bit of mould and wastage, lets say 17,000,000 tonnes for sale at the prevailing market price of the day.

So who is THEY?

[Robby nz]

Warehouse filled with rotten rice in Nakhon Si Thammarat

BANGKOK: -- Rice inspectors were shocked when they found out that the rice stored at a warehouse in Thung Song district of Nakhon Si Thammarat was almost completely damaged during an inspection on Tuesday.

The inspection team led by Mrs Orawan Khumsap, inspector-general of the Prime Minister’s Office, inspected the warehouse belonging to Sin Thong Dee Parawood Company which was contracted to store 60,068 sacks of pledged rice each weighs 100 kilogrammes.

The officials were stunned at the sight of rotten rice scattered on the ground of the warehouse while the rice sacks were disorderly stacked and infested with weevils. There were traces of several rice sacks being gutted.

Pol Lt-Col Pachon Niamrin, deputy superintendent of Kapang police station, said that the warehouse was struck by fire three times on March 4, 2011, February 21 and April 5 this year.

However, he ruled out arson saying that the fires might have been caused by aluminium phosphate interacting with relative humidity.

Mrs Orawan said samples of the rice from the warehouse would be taken for further examination.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/warehouse-filled-rotten-rice-nakhon-si-thammarat/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=warehouse-filled-rotten-rice-nakhon-si-thammarat

-- Thai PBS 2014-07-08

I guess this is why ex PM is asking the court to revisitq her convection and over turn. Justice Thai style.

Sent from my C1904 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Another one who still hasn't been able to work out that the NACC is not a court and that Yingluck has not been convicted of anything.

She has been investigated for her part in the rice pledging scheme as chair of the rice policy committee and the NACC have determined that she was negligent in her (self imposed) duty.

This information will be passed on to the relevant authorities who will then decide if she should face either disciplinary action or charges.

[Thai at Heart]

They have said they will disregard any amounts missing under 5% of what is supposed to be in any one warehouse, which I think is a mistake.

No one knows just how much rice is actually supposed to be there, anything from 10 to 22 million tons have been quoted by the former minister of commerce and others.

If they find that there is only 10 million tons in storage then 5% comes to half a million tons.

If they find 20 million tons then the 5% is 1 million tons which is one third of what was claimed to be missing.

So with that policy they may not actually be counting as missing anything up to a million tons.

Discovering how much is supposed to be there will be another difficult job for the accountants.

From how much was pledged, which shouldn't be to difficult to work out, they will have to deduct :

Loss in milling. Moisture loss and amount sold, and that wont be easy given the secrecy of things like G 2 G deals and general lack of transparent or non existent accounting.

There was also supposed to be some given as international and local aid.

And to complicate things there is rice that was sold into the scheme from other countries which may have been used to replace Thai rice that had already gone missing.

Note !

Now that the scheme has officially ended and the warehouses locked down a true accounting can be done.

This inspection is only going to actually find out what is missing from the warehouse and silo inventories not what is missing from the whole scheme.

Once the total that is actually in the warehouses is determined then it will be up to the accountants to compare the total tonnage that has been brought into the scheme with what is there at the end of the inspection and determine where the difference has gone.

Only then will it be known just how much rice has gone missing.

The next step will be to follow the money trail, that could take longer than the warehouse inspections.

5% leeway. That is an enormous volume. Proves they can't accurately count it . its just too much to do a physical inventory in a month.

That doesn't count mould and quality loss.

Edited July 9, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[h90]

Whatever the politics of it, it's sad to see one of Thailand's iconic products have its reputation destroyed in this way. French wine, Swiss chocolate, Thai rice. Once I would always choose Thai rice as the best available, now I wouldn't eat it unless certain of its origin. It will be a long climb back to re-establish its reputation.. Who, given a choice, would eat rice with the possibility of contamination, aflatoxin, weevils, etc? Only those without choice..

I would like to know how they get rid of dodgy rice, apart from burying it or burning it.

Thai people are very fussy about the food they buy, watch them shopping in the markets. When you buy rice at the markets like Wororot Market in Chiang Mai, the rice is on display in large tubs and is scooped into a plastic bag and weighed, right in front of you. If the rice was no good people would not buy it, or indeed try to sell it.

And I can't see BigC selling packaged rice that was full of weevils or poisoned.

CP will turn it into pigfeed and other types of animal fodder.

Would be nice to see which grades and years they claim to have in stock. What odds they have sold all the good stuff at lower grades to traders who upgraded it?

So on paper they are meant to have top quality but in reality have rubbish.

Or beer production needs also a lot rice. Or bio-gasoline (alcohol)

[RTH10260]

Warehouse filled with rotten rice in Nakhon Si Thammarat

.....

The officials were stunned at the sight of rotten rice scattered on the ground of the warehouse while the rice sacks were disorderly stacked and infested with weevils. There were traces of several rice sacks being gutted.

Pol Lt-Col Pachon Niamrin, deputy superintendent of Kapang police station, said that the warehouse was struck by fire three times on March 4, 2011, February 21 and April 5 this year.

However, he ruled out arson saying that the fires might have been caused by aluminium phosphate interacting with relative humidity.

.....

-- Thai PBS 2014-07-08

Hmmm - chemicals stored mixed with food?

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Old Man River]

I'm sure you are right in that this mess would have lost plenty on paper, without anyone stealing or acting negligently.

I don't accuse Yingluck of stealing rice. Even she isn't that dumb; well her advisers anyway. I'm sure the financial trails associated with any wrongdoing will meander into a veritable Gordian Knot. We will have to see where they lead, should they be uncovered and pursued.

There appear to be issues in the control inventory and money, both actual and accounting. It will take some time to unravel.

If this was the difference between the pledge price paid and the prices it is then sold for, that's a government decision. Any loss becomes the cost of the subsidy which has a social aspect to it. The government and people who elected them, may consider this cost worth the social benefits and that is their right to decide.

However, the accounting and reporting and overall management has been piss poor made worse with blatant lying to claim otherwise. Yingluck and PTP's repeated insistence of no problems and silly claims about secret non existent purchase orders have fueled speculation as to other potential issues.

Some people have made money out of this scheme through defrauding the Thai taxpayer. Maybe millers,transport companies, rice export businesses or the warehouse owners who provided a some what inferior service at no doubt premium costs. A lot of people seem to have put their trust in PTP or another Thaksin proxy party being in power for many years and allowing this to go unchecked.

At best, Yingluck is guilty of massive negligence and incompetence in doing the job she swore and oath to do. Consciously not bothering to do the job you swore an oath to do, and taking the salary to do it. Is that not fraud? Whether she benefited out of any other criminal acts in this scheme is irrelevant. She also made matters fare worse by continued lying in the hope it will all go away. Something she is still seemingly trying to do. I doubt she received one baht personally. But I would not be surprised to learn some of the unaccounted money made its way into PTP coffers for redistribution. Will be very hard to trace and prove as most white collar crime is.

So finally, someone understands that the 700bn is probably the loss between the purchase and sale price.

So now we are talking about possible accounting fraud in the system. That there might be dodgy grade marks and theft in the system. The accusation is 3,000,000 tonnes missing. This might be true, it might not be. Not easy to misplace 3,000,000 mt. Its a lot of rice. How could it be done? False invoicing to the farmers, but 3,000,000 milled rice makes up about 5,500,000 to the farmers. That is virtually one whole crop in a given region. An enormous amount.

Could it be done? Yes. But it would need an enormous amount of compliant farmers to put their names to it, millers to process it, warehouses to produce the paperwork and the list goes on.

Did Yingluck know about this? Who knows? Could and should Yingluck have known about it? Yup. Will they be able to prove it, if she did? I doubt it.

What proof is there yet? Less than a huyndred thousand tonnes missing so far. Not looking good, unless the crime is in one single place.

So now, what is she guilty of if anything? Willfully doing nothing to stop it, if she knew about it. That is bad. As political crimes go, its bad. Is it an organised red shirt scam? So far at 100,000 mT of missing rice. Hardly. People on here are aruging that PTP must have got their mits onto the missing 700bn. Its beyond me how it can be so hard to discover accounting problems for this much rice. It is an enormous figure of the real one. There will have to be provinces where they expect to have 2,000,000 MT of rice buy only 1,000,000 in the warehouse. A million tonnes of rice takes up an astronomical amount of space. Massive.

They need to unearth an enormous amount of missing and misgraded rice, and then trace the invoices and bank payments to farmers for nonexistant rice. As for as I know, that should all be in the Bank of Agriculture records right? It shouldn't be too hard to find. If there is going to be a crime, it will involve one or two companies closely connected to PTP, and it will have had to have been on an enormous scale.

You are focusing on quantitative proof. In my humble opinion they will find that, but you might also want to go back to media reports, pre- coup, where non-quantitative charges were being discussed.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Thai at Heart]

I'm sure you are right in that this mess would have lost plenty on paper, without anyone stealing or acting negligently.

I don't accuse Yingluck of stealing rice. Even she isn't that dumb; well her advisers anyway. I'm sure the financial trails associated with any wrongdoing will meander into a veritable Gordian Knot. We will have to see where they lead, should they be uncovered and pursued.

There appear to be issues in the control inventory and money, both actual and accounting. It will take some time to unravel.

If this was the difference between the pledge price paid and the prices it is then sold for, that's a government decision. Any loss becomes the cost of the subsidy which has a social aspect to it. The government and people who elected them, may consider this cost worth the social benefits and that is their right to decide.

However, the accounting and reporting and overall management has been piss poor made worse with blatant lying to claim otherwise. Yingluck and PTP's repeated insistence of no problems and silly claims about secret non existent purchase orders have fueled speculation as to other potential issues.

Some people have made money out of this scheme through defrauding the Thai taxpayer. Maybe millers,transport companies, rice export businesses or the warehouse owners who provided a some what inferior service at no doubt premium costs. A lot of people seem to have put their trust in PTP or another Thaksin proxy party being in power for many years and allowing this to go unchecked.

At best, Yingluck is guilty of massive negligence and incompetence in doing the job she swore and oath to do. Consciously not bothering to do the job you swore an oath to do, and taking the salary to do it. Is that not fraud? Whether she benefited out of any other criminal acts in this scheme is irrelevant. She also made matters fare worse by continued lying in the hope it will all go away. Something she is still seemingly trying to do. I doubt she received one baht personally. But I would not be surprised to learn some of the unaccounted money made its way into PTP coffers for redistribution. Will be very hard to trace and prove as most white collar crime is.

So finally, someone understands that the 700bn is probably the loss between the purchase and sale price.

So now we are talking about possible accounting fraud in the system. That there might be dodgy grade marks and theft in the system. The accusation is 3,000,000 tonnes missing. This might be true, it might not be. Not easy to misplace 3,000,000 mt. Its a lot of rice. How could it be done? False invoicing to the farmers, but 3,000,000 milled rice makes up about 5,500,000 to the farmers. That is virtually one whole crop in a given region. An enormous amount.

Could it be done? Yes. But it would need an enormous amount of compliant farmers to put their names to it, millers to process it, warehouses to produce the paperwork and the list goes on.

Did Yingluck know about this? Who knows? Could and should Yingluck have known about it? Yup. Will they be able to prove it, if she did? I doubt it.

What proof is there yet? Less than a huyndred thousand tonnes missing so far. Not looking good, unless the crime is in one single place.

So now, what is she guilty of if anything? Willfully doing nothing to stop it, if she knew about it. That is bad. As political crimes go, its bad. Is it an organised red shirt scam? So far at 100,000 mT of missing rice. Hardly. People on here are aruging that PTP must have got their mits onto the missing 700bn. Its beyond me how it can be so hard to discover accounting problems for this much rice. It is an enormous figure of the real one. There will have to be provinces where they expect to have 2,000,000 MT of rice buy only 1,000,000 in the warehouse. A million tonnes of rice takes up an astronomical amount of space. Massive.

They need to unearth an enormous amount of missing and misgraded rice, and then trace the invoices and bank payments to farmers for nonexistant rice. As for as I know, that should all be in the Bank of Agriculture records right? It shouldn't be too hard to find. If there is going to be a crime, it will involve one or two companies closely connected to PTP, and it will have had to have been on an enormous scale.

You are focusing on quantitative proof. In my humble opinion they will find that, but you might also want to go back to media reports, pre- coup, where non-quantitative charges were being discussed.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

A qualitative charge that the rice deteriorated ? Hmmmm. Hello? Its 40c and 90% humidity. I don't think that stands up in a court of law.

[Robby nz]

They have said they will disregard any amounts missing under 5% of what is supposed to be in any one warehouse, which I think is a mistake.

No one knows just how much rice is actually supposed to be there, anything from 10 to 22 million tons have been quoted by the former minister of commerce and others.

If they find that there is only 10 million tons in storage then 5% comes to half a million tons.

If they find 20 million tons then the 5% is 1 million tons which is one third of what was claimed to be missing.

So with that policy they may not actually be counting as missing anything up to a million tons.

Discovering how much is supposed to be there will be another difficult job for the accountants.

From how much was pledged, which shouldn't be to difficult to work out, they will have to deduct :

Loss in milling. Moisture loss and amount sold, and that wont be easy given the secrecy of things like G 2 G deals and general lack of transparent or non existent accounting.

There was also supposed to be some given as international and local aid.

And to complicate things there is rice that was sold into the scheme from other countries which may have been used to replace Thai rice that had already gone missing.

Note !

Now that the scheme has officially ended and the warehouses locked down a true accounting can be done.

This inspection is only going to actually find out what is missing from the warehouse and silo inventories not what is missing from the whole scheme.

Once the total that is actually in the warehouses is determined then it will be up to the accountants to compare the total tonnage that has been brought into the scheme with what is there at the end of the inspection and determine where the difference has gone.

Only then will it be known just how much rice has gone missing.

The next step will be to follow the money trail, that could take longer than the warehouse inspections.

5% leeway. That is an enormous volume. Proves they can't accurately count it . its just too much to do a physical inventory in a month.

That doesn't count mould and quality loss.

You are right they cant accurately count it...when it is scattered all over the floor, even you must have seen the photos.

Nor can they accurately count it when it isn't actually there, remember that great scaffolding.

Should be no problem in a month, remember Nuttawat had it done in just a few days and reported back so Yingluck could tell the world nothing was missing.

Mold and quality loss is a different thing all together, that will no doubt be included in the final report, however the damaged stuff is not actually missing other than in the sense of value.

[Thai at Heart]

They have said they will disregard any amounts missing under 5% of what is supposed to be in any one warehouse, which I think is a mistake.

No one knows just how much rice is actually supposed to be there, anything from 10 to 22 million tons have been quoted by the former minister of commerce and others.

If they find that there is only 10 million tons in storage then 5% comes to half a million tons.

If they find 20 million tons then the 5% is 1 million tons which is one third of what was claimed to be missing.

So with that policy they may not actually be counting as missing anything up to a million tons.

Discovering how much is supposed to be there will be another difficult job for the accountants.

From how much was pledged, which shouldn't be to difficult to work out, they will have to deduct :

Loss in milling. Moisture loss and amount sold, and that wont be easy given the secrecy of things like G 2 G deals and general lack of transparent or non existent accounting.

There was also supposed to be some given as international and local aid.

And to complicate things there is rice that was sold into the scheme from other countries which may have been used to replace Thai rice that had already gone missing.

Note !

Now that the scheme has officially ended and the warehouses locked down a true accounting can be done.

This inspection is only going to actually find out what is missing from the warehouse and silo inventories not what is missing from the whole scheme.

Once the total that is actually in the warehouses is determined then it will be up to the accountants to compare the total tonnage that has been brought into the scheme with what is there at the end of the inspection and determine where the difference has gone.

Only then will it be known just how much rice has gone missing.

The next step will be to follow the money trail, that could take longer than the warehouse inspections.

5% leeway. That is an enormous volume. Proves they can't accurately count it . its just too much to do a physical inventory in a month.

That doesn't count mould and quality loss.

You are right they cant accurately count it...when it is scattered all over the floor, even you must have seen the photos.

Nor can they accurately count it when it isn't actually there, remember that great scaffolding.

Should be no problem in a month, remember Nuttawat had it done in just a few days and reported back so Yingluck could tell the world nothing was missing.

Mold and quality loss is a different thing all together, that will no doubt be included in the final report, however the damaged stuff is not actually missing other than in the sense of value.

They will not be able to measure mould damage until they break down all the stacks. If the floors of the warehouses arent' sealed properly, moisture will come up through the floors. Note how they put plastic under the stacks.

So what appears to be in perfectly good quality might on the inside of the stacks be mouldy. The stacks are not 100% regular and there have been shipments in and out of the warehouses. Doing a quick count and getting it within 5% will be quite a miracle.

[RTH10260]

They never mention the giant rats in these stories...

yeah, all the gene manipulated crops turning to corpss and skeletons in someones cellars...

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited July 9, 2014 by RTH10260

[djjamie]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Deny, misdirect, obfuscate, A very common TV Red problem...

No likes left. Please take this instead.

I just hope you lot don't get too disappointed when the actual theft is much smaller than the hope, and that there is zero proof Yingluck herself got a baht.

Small or large. There was theft and the PTP said there was none. yingluck doesn't need to get a baht,. She is guilty. She said no irregularities. Full Stop.

yinglucks deputy was Chalerm. Chalerms son's best mate did the investigation so must have overlooked this warehouse.

This is why reform is needed. Thanks for highlighting it.

[Thai at Heart]

Small or large. There was theft and the PTP said there was none. yingluck doesn't need to get a baht,. She is guilty. She said no irregularities. Full Stop.

yinglucks deputy was Chalerm. Chalerms son's best mate did the investigation so must have overlooked this warehouse.

This is why reform is needed. Thanks for highlighting it.

You think reasonably a prime minister should be held accountable because someone breaks into a warehouse hundreds of miles away and nicks some rice, and the local warehouseman is complicit and he doesn't report it. Now, we are entering the realms of fantasy. I think better, she should have just kept touring the country 365 days a year randomly visiting warehouses. At least it would have kept her busier.

I think more appropriate that Chalerms son be hauled in with his inspection report first to work out why he missed it.