Immigration clarifies and confirms overstay crackdown

[SiggiCM]

You stay in jail until you have money for your ticket.

Not in jail, in IDC. It is not the same thing.

After a long time, your embassy or ONG may loan the money for the ticket.

no embassy pay, thai goverment has to pay, it is international law and agreement that the country where the people are, pay the deportation

[Pattaya46]

international law about human rights, Thailand signed also, you can not black list people how have kids or wife in the country, even Thai Immigration can not do this

Yes they can

but they may offer you an other option :

"You really don't want this 3 years ban and want to stay in Thailand?"

"Ok, no problem: we offer you 3 years in a Thai prison."

[German Viking]

What kind of visa/ extension of stay do you have? That let you stay 15-16 months with 90 day reporting.

Didn't you write before that you got a non-O ?

Maybe he/she have Thai Elite, but don't be jealous

Why would I be jealous? I can stay here legally as long as I like.

I asked because he posted recently that he got a non-O visa.

In my opinion is this up to everybody what a kind of Visa they have, caused they have to live with consequences.

[German Viking]

Being one who has always had a visa and only ever overstayed by one day (several years ago after getting my return flight date wrong), I do not see a problem with tightening the rules.

and what if that happened again to somebody else like yourself but got stopped on the way to the airport, goodbye girlfriend or wife for 5 years, it can happen, it happened to you, and it possibly will happen again

As others have said, up to 90 days is not a problem under the proposed rules.

If I had a Thai wife I'd have a marriage visa. Thankfully I am free, single and relatively happy

international law about human rights, Thailand signed also, you can not black list people how have kids or wife in the country,

even Thai Immigration can not do this

Yes they can and believe me they will do it.

In general is there the Question how can claim somebody for any rights as long they not keeping the rules themselves.

Edited July 9, 2014 by metisdead
Unnecessary usage of bold font removed.

[p_brownstone]

You stay in jail until you have money for your ticket.

oh realy?

no for sure not, you can put somebody to jail only if it is ordered by court, so people without money get life time jail?

before writing you should use your brain, if exist

Siggi - stop being silly (sorry - could not resist that!).

Please. Visit the IDC (Immigration Detention Centre) in, for example, Suan Plu.

This is where many people with incorrectly documented stay in Thailand - including Overstayers - are held.

There are people who have "lived" there for 10 years or more, simply because they have no relatives who can pay for their repatriation or, in the case of many, their Governments simply refuse to get involved and abandoned them there.

Patrick

[German Viking]

Suan Plu:

http://www.ptet-nepal.org/pen_pal/idc.htm

[thailiketoo]

So what happen right now if, let's say, someone under a year overstay surrender himself at the airport with a plane ticket and his fine. Is he getting blacklisted for a year?

I'm confused cause some people say it's already in the papers at some immigration places while others (like the yesterday post from a thai lieutenant) tend to say that it's not yet being applied and it will be in effect most likely at the end of this month.

i'm confused

Read the OP. It says an Immigration officer from region 6 (I think Mukdahan is in region 6 but I'm not sure)

submitted a proposal to black list people who overstay to the Ministry of the Interior. I don't know if the Ministry of the Interior can write laws. Maybe they can. I would imagine someone would know. I also don't know how fast they can change a law or write a new interpretation.

[shocky2004]

So what happen right now if, let's say, someone under a year overstay surrender himself at the airport with a plane ticket and his fine. Is he getting blacklisted for a year?

I'm confused cause some people say it's already in the papers at some immigration places while others (like the yesterday post from a thai lieutenant) tend to say that it's not yet being applied and it will be in effect most likely at the end of this month.

i'm confused

Read the OP. It says an Immigration officer from region 6 (I think Mukdahan is in region 6 but I'm not sure)

submitted a proposal to black list people who overstay to the Ministry of the Interior. I don't know if the Ministry of the Interior can write laws. Maybe they can. I would imagine someone would know. I also don't know how fast they can change a law or write a new interpretation.

Yes, i know. But considering that some people say they saw the changes on paper at 2-3 different immigrations centers yesterday got me wonder if they are actually applying it or no. Because it's not very clear at the moment. I guess we gonna need someone that overstayed to come tell us his experience once he get out.

[CRUNCHER]

before you writing any bullshit, you should inform yourself, there is not financial fine in the EU for overstay

Yes most foreigners may be on visas, or extensions, some have PR and some have citizenship. But they follow the rules and comply with the requirements. Nothing to do with how long they've been here.

Those that chose not to follow the rules perhaps can't meet the requirements or don't want to come into contact with the authorities for some reason. Whatever - it is not a justifiable reason. They cannot break the rules just because it suits them. 20k ThB isn't really that big a punishment and is much less severe than many countries including US and EU members.

Perhaps you should practice what you preach! Your comments appears bullshit.

onsequences of overstaying Schengen visa

Overstaying Schengen visa can result in a number of consequences.

Fine: The first consequence to overstaying Schengen visa is a fine. The state in which you remained when overstaying Schengen visa can impose a fine which can be very expensive.

Record: Overstaying Schengen visa also can mean a record in your personal file saying that you overstayed Schengen visa which can make it more complicated to get Schengen visa in the future.

Ban on entry: Probably the most severe punishment for overstaying Schengen visa can be a ban on entry. A ban on entry is usually issued for 1 to 3 years. A traveler overstaying Schengen visa may not be allowed back into Schengen countries for 1 to 3 years.

Deportation: A very unpleasant consequence to overstaying Schengen visa is an immediate deportation when caught overstaying Schengen visa.

The UK regards overstaying as a criminal offence, which means offenders have a criminal record.

Overstaying

Last modified: 05 March 2014

Overstaying your visa is a criminal offence. If you overstay for more than 28 days you will not be allowed to apply for further leave to remain from within the UK. If you overstay by more than 90 days you will normally be barred from coming back to the UK for at least 12 months.

Additionally overstaying will have serious consequences for any future immigrations applications that you make, including applications for countries other than the UK. You must tell the truth in immigration applications and declare any periods of overstay if asked about them. If you are found to have used deception in an immigration application you are likely to be barred from the UK for ten years.

So some countries operate fines and a ban, some a ban. But all are more severe than Thailand's previous fine only.

Love this one. Seems Thailand is not so unreasonable when compared with other countries.

Get real. Overstaying is against the law, even if it is only negligence and not malicious. There are consequences for breaking the law and they have to be faced. The consequences might vary somewhat from country to country, but they are there.

[NanLaew]

So what happen right now if, let's say, someone under a year overstay surrender himself at the airport with a plane ticket and his fine. Is he getting blacklisted for a year?

I'm confused cause some people say it's already in the papers at some immigration places while others (like the yesterday post from a thai lieutenant) tend to say that it's not yet being applied and it will be in effect most likely at the end of this month.

i'm confused

Read the OP. It says an Immigration officer from region 6 (I think Mukdahan is in region 6 but I'm not sure)

submitted a proposal to black list people who overstay to the Ministry of the Interior. I don't know if the Ministry of the Interior can write laws. Maybe they can. I would imagine someone would know. I also don't know how fast they can change a law or write a new interpretation.

Yes, i know. But considering that some people say they saw the changes on paper at 2-3 different immigrations centers yesterday got me wonder if they are actually applying it or no. Because it's not very clear at the moment. I guess we gonna need someone that overstayed to come tell us his experience once he get out.

Unless of course they get banged up first as I hear the internet connection in the IDC is quite rubbish.

People with valid visas and extensions are already being asked to sign an affidavit that they are aware of the consequences of overstay. I would wager that any 'amnesty' on current overstayers is already up and running, unofficial or otherwise.

This is all a bit like the 'Glorious Twelfth" (of August) in the UK where the 'beaters' head out and scare all the grouse into the path of the 12-bore shotguns.

[WhamBam]

Being one who has always had a visa and only ever overstayed by one day (several years ago after getting my return flight date wrong), I do not see a problem with tightening the rules.

and what if that happened again to somebody else like yourself but got stopped on the way to the airport, goodbye girlfriend or wife for 5 years, it can happen, it happened to you, and it possibly will happen again

As others have said, up to 90 days is not a problem under the proposed rules.

If I had a Thai wife I'd have a marriage visa. Thankfully I am free, single and relatively happy

international law about human rights, Thailand signed also, you can not black list people how have kids or wife in the country,

even Thai Immigration can not do this

There are Human Rights and Human Rights. Some rules for some and some rules for others.

I for one would not like to be the subject of a test case in Thailand, thanks.

No way on this planet are you going to get me marry a Thai woman. Give me a tourist visa anyday. Winter in Thailand, summer in the UK.

And hopefully no overstay

[Smurkster]

There is a guy in my town who left to go back to his country about six months ago and has plans to return soon, he has a wife and children here, but according to him and his wife, he stayed for 2 years overstay and paid for it on his way out...I was wondering when this law takes effect and that most likely given the new laws, this guy will be blacklisted? Or since he left and paid before it went into effect will he be spared?...I am really not a fan of this man, I think he is dangerous on many different levels. So I would love to know what people think

[ukrules]

There is a guy in my town who left to go back to his country about six months ago and has plans to return soon, he has a wife and children here, but according to him and his wife, he stayed for 2 years overstay and paid for it on his way out...I was wondering when this law takes effect and that most likely given the new laws, this guy will be blacklisted? Or since he left and paid before it went into effect will he be spared?...I am really not a fan of this man, I think he is dangerous on many different levels. So I would love to know what people think

The new rule isn't actually law yet and from what I've read it only applies to people on overstay now, not historical overstays.

[larsjohnsson]

Being one who has always had a visa and only ever overstayed by one day (several years ago after getting my return flight date wrong), I do not see a problem with tightening the rules.

and what if that happened again to somebody else like yourself but got stopped on the way to the airport, goodbye girlfriend or wife for 5 years, it can happen, it happened to you, and it possibly will happen again

As others have said, up to 90 days is not a problem under the proposed rules.

If I had a Thai wife I'd have a marriage visa. Thankfully I am free, single and relatively happy

international law about human rights, Thailand signed also, you can not black list people how have kids or wife in the country,

even Thai Immigration can not do this

Of course they can black list people that have a wife or kids in the country. My home country Sweden and most other countries I know do it all the time. When a foreigner don't follow the law and make a crime, he will be expelled and black listed for a number of years. If it's a very serious crime for the rest of his life. And it doesn't help him if he have a wife or child

[Carib]

Ones you build your life on quicksand, be prepared to drown.

Thailand has been very lenient on the ones doing back to back runs and overstaying and other ways of abusing the system, and now they seem to want to end that.

I am sorry but it is their country and their rules, no comparing possible, no pointing at, just their rules. The excuse of not knowing is not valid IMHO, it only means that a lot of people did not do their homework before moving or buying condo`s or whatever.

A lot of westerners seem to think that they are superior to Thais, yet they do the most stupid things and afterwards think they have `rights` because of that stupidity. Does it work like that in the respective home countries too?

I do understand it is sour, but it looks like they mean business right now, I am sure some tweaking and adjusting will be done, but I wouldn't take any chances right now.

[metisdead]

A flame post has been removed as well as a reply.

[jago25]

Think of all the money that will be lost. This doesn't seem like a good idea. Taking money out of an economy rarely makes it grow. Strange.

The idea is to stop the illegals from staying here. If I am not mistaken it is the same in most countries. So if you are going to stay here it is simple - just follow the rules and don't make up your own.

It can be this simple but it's never always this simple. The heartbreak of immigration is a global thing, whether that's in Europe or Asia.

With globalisation people are mixing. When you meet a partner how does a visa effect a relationship? I've been in this situation twice before with 2 different countries. I'm going into a similar situation for a 3rd time now.

These situations are only increasing. I'm not saying immigration rules shouldn't be enforced, I'm just asking for awareness that there is a heavy price to pay for bureaucracy and to have compassion for those caught in the crossfire. By compassion I mean considering the full spectrum of people in situations other than oneself.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out, how accurately immigration manage to filter out those they want. Many on here have good faith in the filter so that's a good sign.

I want to state the obvious because it is not always obvious for those inside Thailand.

A major attraction of Thailand is that it's a place perceived where you can go easily and have a sense of liberty. That includes a perception from countries with a bigger GDP that you're not going to have visa hassles. We all know lots of people who have come to Thailand and stayed. It's a cliché to be an expat in Thailand - that's how big this is. What do people think of when they think of Thailand? Beautiful surroundings, prostitutes, maybe drugs, elephants and buddism if you're lucky but a big one is the white guy who never came back. It seems like everyone knows a guy in the UK who has gone to Thailand and never came back. Regardless of how much one may loathe this image, it is there. Of all the places in the world, if I asked a random sample of people where might be a good place that's cheap to leverage geo-arbitridge from a richer country, then Thailand would come up as #1. Ahead of every other country on the planet including India. The one well trodden path of geo-arbitridge escapism.

So a change in visas is very big news that goes well beyond this forum.

Another obvious thing to state. Most people view each other as different according to which country you're from. That is, to see borders. You might say someone is British or Thai. Not all of us think like that and there's a complicated spectrum inbetween which causes threads like this to go out of control and it is testament to the people here that the thread is civilised.

My compassion for each nationality gets easier as I get to know citizens from each country. I'm at a point now where I'm really at odds with people from every country in the world in that they see borders, skin colour and nationalities and I don't. As a result there is nowhere I feel I can call home. Does anyone else feel this way?

[timewilltell]

Think of all the money that will be lost. This doesn't seem like a good idea. Taking money out of an economy rarely makes it grow. Strange.

The idea is to stop the illegals from staying here. If I am not mistaken it is the same in most countries. So if you are going to stay here it is simple - just follow the rules and don't make up your own.

It can be this simple but it's never always this simple. The heartbreak of immigration is a global thing, whether that's in Europe or Asia.

With globalisation people are mixing. When you meet a partner how does a visa effect a relationship? I've been in this situation twice before with 2 different countries. I'm going into a similar situation for a 3rd time now.

These situations are only increasing. I'm not saying immigration rules shouldn't be enforced, I'm just asking for awareness that there is a heavy price to pay for bureaucracy and to have compassion for those caught in the crossfire. By compassion I mean considering the full spectrum of people in situations other than oneself.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out, how accurately immigration manage to filter out those they want. Many on here have good faith in the filter so that's a good sign.

I want to state the obvious because it is not always obvious for those inside Thailand.

A major attraction of Thailand is that it's a place perceived where you can go easily and have a sense of liberty. That includes a perception from countries with a bigger GDP that you're not going to have visa hassles. We all know lots of people who have come to Thailand and stayed. It's a cliché to be an expat in Thailand - that's how big this is. What do people think of when they think of Thailand? Beautiful surroundings, prostitutes, maybe drugs, elephants and buddism if you're lucky but a big one is the white guy who never came back. It seems like everyone knows a guy in the UK who has gone to Thailand and never came back. Regardless of how much one may loathe this image, it is there. Of all the places in the world, if I asked a random sample of people where might be a good place that's cheap to leverage geo-arbitridge from a richer country, then Thailand would come up as #1. Ahead of every other country on the planet including India. The one well trodden path of geo-arbitridge escapism.

So a change in visas is very big news that goes well beyond this forum.

Another obvious thing to state. Most people view each other as different according to which country you're from. That is, to see borders. You might say someone is British or Thai. Not all of us think like that and there's a complicated spectrum inbetween which causes threads like this to go out of control and it is testament to the people here that the thread is civilised.

My compassion for each nationality gets easier as I get to know citizens from each country. I'm at a point now where I'm really at odds with people from every country in the world in that they see borders, skin colour and nationalities and I don't. As a result there is nowhere I feel I can call home. Does anyone else feel this way?

You can count me as supporting this view. It is really institutions that cause this thinking - governments and schools. Some people do not really want people to mix - seeking purity like Hitler. Others are more live and let live. Some governments are protectionist for various reasons and others more open. Some countries need more protection because of social systems that provide a safety bet paid for by their citizens - commonly usurped from individuals coming from countries that do nothing much for their citizens in comparison.

Sometimes the reasoning why countries, that offer little in the way of social support systems to their own citizens never mind foreigners, are so anal about others staying in the country. Unless criminals or beggars EVERY person in a society contributes to it through VAT paid on goods bought and profits to the locals they interact with and purchase from.

Perhaps in years to come, progress in global education might catch up with that of technology.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[Tomtomtom69]

It is unreasonable that in the case of for example losing a job you have to go the same day to immigration and get a week to leave the country or be on overstay. In cases like this it is not unreasonable to expect that the person be given say a month to leave the country (automatically no trip to immigration required) to either change his job and become legal with that or make real arangements to clear up leases etc.

Few countries if any apply the rule that Thailand does.

I absolutely agree. I think it's ridiculous too. Although generally speaking employers give you a bit of leeway and the effective date of termination on your letter may be 2-4 weeks (or sometimes up to 3 months) after the date you are actually terminated. If 3 months later, then that would indicate that the company would need to pay you for 3 months severance after having served for a while. In such cases you would not have to do anything until close to the date mentioned on the letter and go into immigration then. By that time you should have also figured out your next move.

However, the good news is that one can apply for said 1-week extension (or just be prepared to leave immediately), leave for a few days to Laos (preferably) or Cambodia or Myanmar (make sure you get a visa in advance for Myanmar) and then obtain a new single entry or in the case of Laos and possibly Myanmar a double entry tourist visa for your return. I know it's hardly an ideal situation and then you have to go through all the hoops again for your new job. A lot also depends on how quickly you can find a new job. It's not necessarily that easy for many expats. Those with 20+ years experience might get a new job offer in a week, those in their 20s and early 30s might have to wait 3-6 months or longer, especially in this economy (English teachers excepted but not everyone wants to teach English). If you are lucky and your termination letter is dated for say a month or more in the future and you get a new job offer almost immediately, then chances are you can change jobs smoothly without leaving the country. Otherwise you'll probably have to do a visa run.

[pinkpanther99]

Ones you build your life on quicksand, be prepared to drown.

Thailand has been very lenient on the ones doing back to back runs and overstaying and other ways of abusing the system, and now they seem to want to end that.

I am sorry but it is their country and their rules, no comparing possible, no pointing at, just their rules. The excuse of not knowing is not valid IMHO, it only means that a lot of people did not do their homework before moving or buying condo`s or whatever.

A lot of westerners seem to think that they are superior to Thais, yet they do the most stupid things and afterwards think they have `rights` because of that stupidity. Does it work like that in the respective home countries too?

I do understand it is sour, but it looks like they mean business right now, I am sure some tweaking and adjusting will be done, but I wouldn't take any chances right now.

A lot of valid points made here.

Although I have sympathy with some people who will come into problems from this visa 'crackdown', you wouldn't be able to get away with this kind of thing in other countries.

Those who have settled here 'long term' on tourist visas must have known in the back of their minds they were on borrowed time. This day was always going to come.

Also, these rules aren't new. It just seems Immigration are now telling the staff to actually start enforcing them which is no bad thing.

[Jingthing]

...

Although I have sympathy with some people who will come into problems from this visa 'crackdown', you wouldn't be able to get away with this kind of thing in other countries.

...

That is not true. So best stick to the THAILAND topic and stop making up fantasies that Thailand had the most liberal foreign residency policies in the world because they NEVER did (and obviously NEVER will).

[OnMyWay2]

I don't want to hear from these bitter old gerry hatricks who think they've "earned" their right to be in Thailand (what a joke)

I wanted to stay in Thailand too when I was 30. playing by the rules and waiting 20 years = earned it.

[NeutralVoice]

I think this rule is sensible enough. I think that those that have overstayed in excess of any of the thresholds defined in the proposal should plan ahead and leave the Kingdom before this comes into effect. Since this can happen with little or no notice, the sooner you leave and come back, the better your chances that you will be able to avoid getting blacklisted.

I just went through a silly ordeal with my work permit. Not quite sure of the circumstances that caused a problem in the first place, but after 4 years I had to start the entire process from scratch. Apparently this happened because prior to re-issuing my work permit we had to file something with the BOI, and by the time it was done and approved, the time left in my non-B was now less than 2 weeks. We filed for an extension, which they grant for 2 weeks, but now the position for which I applied for the work permit had to be approved first.

By the time it was approved the time left with the extension was less than 2 weeks - short 2 days actually. You would think the non-B could be just get extended without leaving the country as it had been the prior 4 years. But no, the 2 week window is an iron clad rule - why, I have no idea - but the point is that it required for me to leave the country and go to Singapore to apply for a non-B at an embassy.

It was not a problem getting the non-B in Singapore, but now they will only give a 90 days single-entry visa, which is more than enough to complete the work permit process, but I will need to pay the 5700 baht for a second time. All in all, the cost of missing by 2 days is pretty high: 2 half days wasted at the one-stop immigration office + 5,700 baht that will need to be paid again for issuing a 1 year non-B + 100 SGD to get the 90 days single-entry non-B at the Thai Embassy in Singapore (incidentally, there were a total of 3 people, me included, applying for any kind of VISA at 10:00am on a Monday morning). Flying the night before to get in early enough and staying overnight as the visa is not given until the next afternoon. That's another 10K to 20K THB, depending on how you travel. Then there is the lawyers involved, and the time and paperwork required to apply for the work permit as if it was my first day in Thailand - despite being legally in the country for well over half a decade now, 4 years at the current job.

The main beneficiary of this was the city-state of Singapore, as I was there for 4 days (only needed 2) and left my shopping money for the month over there instead of here. I cannot imagine the extra 5,700 baht making much of a contribution to the economy. Or the 100SGD left at the Thai Embassy in SG - which by the way it is an enormous complex in an ultra-prime location on Orchard Blvd.

[belg]

not yet in effect, so do they think they will scare the rats out to come out, and get in order before the new law ? curious to see how it goes

[paz]

...

obtain a new single entry or in the case of Laos and possibly Myanmar a double entry tourist visa for your return.

....

Double-entry TR visa are also issued in Laos. Reference sticky thread on top of this forum.

[Tomtomtom69]

...

obtain a new single entry or in the case of Laos and possibly Myanmar a double entry tourist visa for your return.

....

Double-entry TR visa are also issued in Laos. Reference sticky thread on top of this forum.

That's exactly what I said. Please re-read that sentence. Also, I have applied for and received a double entry from Laos. What I wrote was Laos can issue double entries and Myanmar possibly as well (but I'm not sure). Hanoi, Bali, Jakarta and a few other places in the region do them too.

[ubonjoe]

A comment on moderation has been removed.

Off topic and inflammatory (aka troll) posts are removed.

[ilocos]

Now there is much talk of farang doing the very naughty heinous crime of overstay and are deserving of being locked up in IDC. I wholly agree. A very deserved punishment. What I would love to know is this money demanded by immigration for a deportation more than legally required. What I mean is part of payment an extortion fee not too similar for fees demanded for landing at Phuket Airport? Let's keep topic relevant and interesting please.

[ilocos]

For the poor lad bkkdawg, for whom I at least have empathy for, if he is caught before he makes it to the Laos border and is subsequently incarcerated in the IDC what would he legally be obliged to pay in the case of immigration staff promptly and courteously processing his deportation order?

[MJCM]

For the poor lad bkkdawg, for whom I at least have empathy for, if he is caught before he makes it to the Laos border and is subsequently incarcerated in the IDC what would he legally be obliged to pay in the case of immigration staff promptly and courteously processing his deportation order?

IMHO the fine for overstaying (500 a day with a Max of 20k), and has to have a plane ticket back to his Home Country.

Edited July 12, 2014 by MJCM