Can you work in a company while the work permit is being issued ?

[BEngBKK]

I got a job in A BOI promoted SW company in BKK.

The Thai owner told me that there is no problem working

without WP while the WP is being processes at the BOI.

After 1.5 month I finally got the WP (why the WP got delayed I do not know), but now the company do not want to

pay me salary for the first month, since I did not have any WP.....

I have already a new job and will turn in my resignation at the end of this month.

Questions:

1. Can you work in a company while the work permit is being issued ?

2. Have anybody experience with complaining to the Labor department ?

3. Are there anywhere on Internet where you can register things like this

and check the "Reputation" of a company ?

[Pib]

After 1.5 month I finally got the WP (why the WP got delayed I do not know), but now the company do not want to

pay me salary for the first month, since I did not have any WP.....

I think this tells you everything you need to know about this company.

[WitawatWatawit]

You cannot work. simple as that, so forget the labour dept, you don't have a leg to stand on.

accept that you were screwed by a scumbag, and move on.

[jbaldwin]

Actually if you had been paid that would have provided clear evidence that you had been working illegally. So maybe it's a good thing that you were not.

[Cloggie]

Just leave and find another company - just a sign that they will try to <deleted> you in the future as well!

[Mario2008]

The labour department doesn't care about the work permit issue in such cases. They will pursue the company for non-payment and normally it will not come before a judge as companies tend to prefer not to escalate things.

[NCC1701A]

Welcome to Thailand... assume nothing...

[WitawatWatawit]

The labour department doesn't care about the work permit issue in such cases. They will pursue the company for non-payment and normally it will not come before a judge as companies tend to prefer not to escalate things.

Mario, not sure this is correct. The Labour Dept does bend the rules, such as with some illegal immigrants a couple of years ago, but that was more on compassionate grounds. In this guy's case he would not have a legal leg to stand on - my company's lawyers gave me a bit of a lecture abiut this a couple of decades ago. To rely on the Labour Dept's good graces could prove fateful. I don't think I'd be willing to take the risk.

[BEngBKK]

The labour department doesn't care about the work permit issue in such cases. They will pursue the company for non-payment and normally it will not come before a judge as companies tend to prefer not to escalate things.

Mario, not sure this is correct. The Labour Dept does bend the rules, such as with some illegal immigrants a couple of years ago, but that was more on compassionate grounds. In this guy's case he would not have a legal leg to stand on - my company's lawyers gave me a bit of a lecture abiut this a couple of decades ago. To rely on the Labour Dept's good graces could prove fateful. I don't think I'd be willing to take the risk.

Hi

I Think you are right so I will skip the Labour dep.

In stead I will consider the 70K I lost in salary as the price I payed for the right to tell the world about these people and this company.

[stevenl]

The labour department doesn't care about the work permit issue in such cases. They will pursue the company for non-payment and normally it will not come before a judge as companies tend to prefer not to escalate things.

Mario, not sure this is correct. The Labour Dept does bend the rules, such as with some illegal immigrants a couple of years ago, but that was more on compassionate grounds. In this guy's case he would not have a legal leg to stand on - my company's lawyers gave me a bit of a lecture abiut this a couple of decades ago. To rely on the Labour Dept's good graces could prove fateful. I don't think I'd be willing to take the risk.

Hi

I Think you are right so I will skip the Labour dep.

In stead I will consider the 70K I lost in salary as the price I payed for the right to tell the world about these people and this company.

As long as you don't mention them by name you have that right

[BEngBKK]

Do anybody know of a web site for rating companies in TH ?

[96tehtarp]

Hi

I Think you are right so I will skip the Labour dep.

In stead I will consider the 70K I lost in salary as the price I payed for the right to tell the world about these people and this company.

BEngBKK,

Don't be so quick to part with money you worked hard to earn.

I can't speak with authority, however I have read here previously that an employee is entitled to work legally during the period between when a work permit is applied for and approved or denied. Also, I believe you could have continued to work legally during the period between your application for work permit's denial and the outcome of an appeal. It is heresay on my part, however don't walk away from 70k so easily.

Everything I have heard about the department of labor indicates that whenever possible they side with the employee, and they are very keen to scrutinize foreign controlled firms for irregularities.

You did nothing wrong or illegal.

Go and talk to the dept. of labor. You might be surprised how friendly and accommodating they are. If you do you will really enjoy spending that 70k.

Good luck.

Edited July 13, 2014 by 96tehtarp

[Soutpeel]

When I first came to work in Thailand and waiting on my first WP, I queried this question with the Chonburi DOL, and according to them, under their jurisdiction at least , while you are under consideration for the WP and the application is bring processed, it is perfectly OK to work while the WP is in process

If the company has stiffed the OP as regards his salary for the first month, he can take this issue to the DOL, in terms of labour laws etc, they are typically not fussed as to whether one has a WP or not, and this would be certain in the OP's case as it seems he has done nothing wrong

Edited July 13, 2014 by Soutpeel

[mrtoad]

When I first came to work in Thailand and waiting on my first WP, I queried this question with the Chonburi DOL, and according to them, under their jurisdiction at least , while you are under consideration for the WP and the application is bring processed, it is perfectly OK to work while the WP is in process

If the company has stiffed the OP as regards his salary for the first month, he can take this issue to the DOL, in terms of labour laws etc, they are typically not fussed as to whether one has a WP or not, and this would be certain in the OP's case as it seems he has done nothing wrong

I have 20 overseas staff working with me, so fairly used to dealing with immigration and the labour department. Our local departments are really helpful - and they have always had no problem with staff working whilst WP is under consideration. Depending on where staff come from, to get the Non Im B visa initially, we sometimes need to get a WP3 issued. The only thing though, is that different provinces seem to have different attitudes.

Certainly though, the attitude of the company the OP mentions stinks, and would certainly not be a company that he should stay at, with that crap attitude.

[96tehtarp]

Note to OP:

Posts#13 & #14 indicate that you should at the very least pay a visit to the labor dept.

A fool and his money are easily parted. That I personally can live with.

However, if they first make me work for that money, work hard for it, and then expect me to walk away from it. I'll do something about it, as you should. You probably were not working illegally, even if you think you were. The labor dept should be able to find out. From what I have heard, they are one of the few farang friendly govt. agencies in Thailand.

Don't walk away from 70k so easily. That's all I'm saying.

You may not realize it, but you do have a leg to stand on. Now stand on it, and use the other leg to kick them with.

[WitawatWatawit]

^^^ #15

Agree wholeheartedly - nothing to be lost by going to the Labour Dept. If they back you, you're certain to win (they are farang friendly - they have helped a couple of colleagues of mine) as most employers are very wary of them.

Regarding the question of working without a work permit - there is a grey area I forgot to mention. That concerns the probation period of 4 months. At my last company, I was told I could not work during the probation period without a work permit, but my employer before that was quite willing to allow me to do so - but I was warned that I was not entitled to any kind of benefit - and that I should "exit the building smartly and discretely" should officials of any kind enter the office. I'm sure you can see where this leads.

mrtoad may have a friendly labour office, but I would not suggest that this is the case with every office.

Sidetracking a little, do new workers still have to go to the Foreign Ministry for an interview?

Edited July 13, 2014 by WitawatWatawit

[mrtoad]

^^^ #15

Agree wholeheartedly - nothing to be lost by going to the Labour Dept. If they back you, you're certain to win (they are farang friendly - they have helped a couple of colleagues of mine) as most employers are very wary of them.

Regarding the question of working without a work permit - there is a grey area I forgot to mention. That concerns the probation period of 4 months. At my last company, I was told I could not work during the probation period without a work permit, but my employer before that was quite willing to allow me to do so - but I was warned that I was not entitled to any kind of benefit - and that I should "exit the building smartly and discretely" should officials of any kind enter the office. I'm sure you can see where this leads.

mrtoad may have a friendly labour office, but I would not suggest that this is the case with every office.

Sidetracking a little, do new workers still have to go to the Foreign Ministry for an interview?

I think probably our office is friendly, because it's used to dealing with us, and when we have a question we ask them. Just to make sure. I have never encountered staff not being paid during probation, that sounds strange. Of note, terms of employment that over 90 days, then notification of termination will require compensation under the Thai Labour Act.

What I would suggest to the OP is that, irrespective of the WP if he has a contracts and documentation that he was employed then he should indeed go to the labour department, they will enforce the company to pay what he is owed if that is the finding, irrespective of visa and work permit status. If I am not mistaken though, he will need to file with the labour department within 30 days of termination of employment.

Regarding foreign ministry, no, haven't needed to do that.

[Soutpeel]

^^^ #15

Agree wholeheartedly - nothing to be lost by going to the Labour Dept. If they back you, you're certain to win (they are farang friendly - they have helped a couple of colleagues of mine) as most employers are very wary of them.

Regarding the question of working without a work permit - there is a grey area I forgot to mention. That concerns the probation period of 4 months. At my last company, I was told I could not work during the probation period without a work permit, but my employer before that was quite willing to allow me to do so - but I was warned that I was not entitled to any kind of benefit - and that I should "exit the building smartly and discretely" should officials of any kind enter the office. I'm sure you can see where this leads.

mrtoad may have a friendly labour office, but I would not suggest that this is the case with every office.

Sidetracking a little, do new workers still have to go to the Foreign Ministry for an interview?

As regards probationary periods and a WP, there is nothing in any of WP / labour laws which addresses probationary periods so any restrictions imposed are purely from the company side, nothing to do with the DOL or the labour/WP rules

Did new workers every had to do an interview ?, I have working here 14 years and known plenty of people come and go on WP's and never have heard if this one

Only place in all my years working internationally have I ever had to do an "interview" with a government department was the late 80's in China, were one had to do "political" interview with the Chinese BIB and as long as your answers went along the lines of " China is sovereign country and what you do in your country, is your business and no one else's " you were good, if you mentioned student rights, and a certain square, you would be "ejected" from the PRC

[WitawatWatawit]

Soutpeel: It's confusing, this probation thing.

This from Panwa Group:

Probationary Period: Under the Thailand Employment Law the maximum probationary period is 120 days.

This from Tilleke and Gibbons:

Trial Period

Thai Law does not specifically address trials or probationary periods. However, under Thai Law, only employees who have worked for 120 days or more are entitled to severance pay if they are terminated without cause. An employee who has worked for less than 120 days can be terminated without receiving severance pay.

Re the Foreign Ministry interview - yeah, I recall now - it happened for a while several years ago, but then was dropped. Kind of strange, because I went in for my interview, expecting to have to give an explanation of why I was a suitable person to live in Thailand (I was only changing jobs after 18 years). The young official just looked at my papers, rolled his eyes and said "stuff this" (yep, he did), and we blithered on about footie for half an hour.

[BudRight]

Ask for a meeting with your boss. Request the name of the director, the location of incorporation and their tax number. These things are also on your work permit documents.

When you are asked why, tell them 'to give to labor department.'

It is likely that your boss is keeping your salary for themselves. This should persuade him to cough up the money stolen from you.

If not, remember that in Thailand he wins who is willing to risk the most. That means being willing go to the labor department and tell them what has happened.

Also, begin looking for another job immediately.