Out-in visa hoppers now being barred from entry to Thailand

[DrTuner]

For those who ask how long we must stay outside Thailand to get a new tourist visa ..the Thailand Embassy in France has an answer .... 3 months !!! (i already posted it some weeks ago) !

The thai embassy in France doesn't want to deliver tourist visa if you were in Thailand the last 3 months.

It was already like this ..in June (or maybe before i don't know)

http://www.thaiembassy.fr/fr/visa/informations-generales/reglement-du-service-des-visas/

(check number 1)

Yet you can go to a different country and get one no problem.

This is yet another inconsistency of Thai immigration that creates nothing but confusion.

Do they deliberately do it or what?

Visa policy belongs to Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Different body from immigration police, who are guarding the borders. They rarely seem to be in sync.

[FritsSikkink]

- nearly 50% of people under 25 in Europe unemployed.

Not true :

http://www.statista.com/statistics/266228/youth-unemployment-rate-in-eu-countries/

[max72]

OK... Just called again.

I need to amend my post, 6 months of tourist stamps and visas over 2 years and you get questioned and need to prove you are a genuine tourist. Not sure what the questions will be. You also get a red stamp in your passport if you are allowed back in.

6 months of stamps and visas over the last 12 months and you will be deemed not a tourist and refused no matter what visa you have or whether you are coming on a second entry from a double entry visa.

red stamp ?

So they ban you because you choose to come to Thailand again ?

Why don't they put a sign while exit Thailand "Thanks for your visit. Please don't come back again. We don't want to see you. Choose another country."

[max72]

A hypothetical case.

A Belgian spends 4 and a half months in Thailand then 1 and a half months in Belgium and repeats this cycle over and over. He covers his 4 and a half months in Thailand with a double entry tourist visa each time.

How would this be viewed by immigration?

(Assume said Belgian is 38 years old, not married to a Thai, has a rental property and 100,000 Euros of investments in Belgium which provide an income).

Hmmm I think it could be more suspect than me.

I spend 4-5 months (Nov-March) mostly in Thailand, but than I stay out half a year. I think it's clear i am not working in Thailand. I hope so.

You also don't look to be working in Thailand, if you stay 3 months outside, but if they apply the rule (?) 180 days every 360 days, you are burnt, because you spend more time in Thailand than abroad.

The problem it is not clear, there are no numbers and cases like yours are in that grey area.

However if you always have exit tickets and never go to neighbour countries by land, your chances to be considered tourist increase.

But It is possible you would be forced to spend more time abroad and little bit less time in Thailand.

Let's see after 12 August what happen and try to stay in touch with the Thai Embassy in Belgium.

Thanks for the answers.

Let's continue with this. Belgian flies in from Brussels with a new double entry tourist visa after 1 and a half months in Belgium. If the Immigration Officer is not really happy, what might happen?

It happens they can send you back. Very nasty indeed.

[ukrules]

A hypothetical case.

A Belgian spends 4 and a half months in Thailand then 1 and a half months in Belgium and repeats this cycle over and over. He covers his 4 and a half months in Thailand with a double entry tourist visa each time.

How would this be viewed by immigration?

(Assume said Belgian is 38 years old, not married to a Thai, has a rental property and 100,000 Euros of investments in Belgium which provide an income).

Hmmm I think it could be more suspect than me.

I spend 4-5 months (Nov-March) mostly in Thailand, but than I stay out half a year. I think it's clear i am not working in Thailand. I hope so.

You also don't look to be working in Thailand, if you stay 3 months outside, but if they apply the rule (?) 180 days every 360 days, you are burnt, because you spend more time in Thailand than abroad.

The problem it is not clear, there are no numbers and cases like yours are in that grey area.

However if you always have exit tickets and never go to neighbour countries by land, your chances to be considered tourist increase.

But It is possible you would be forced to spend more time abroad and little bit less time in Thailand.

Let's see after 12 August what happen and try to stay in touch with the Thai Embassy in Belgium.

Thanks for the answers.

Let's continue with this. Belgian flies in from Brussels with a new double entry tourist visa after 1 and a half months in Belgium. If the Immigration Officer is not really happy, what might happen?

It happens they can send you back. Very nasty indeed.

When that happens the airlines will become involved and things will get serious very quickly - within a matter of days.

[ukguyinthai]

Just reflecting for 1 minute over the last months events,

Can anyone guess just how far ahead the immigration in BBK plans anything?

I think it’s about 12 hours.

Can anyone guess how they convey their new plans to all the offices to synchronize operations?

I have not got a clue.

The whole organization is truly shocking and their staffs on the whole are arrogant.

[IsaanUSA]

I love the "but all of us here illegally are injecting money into the economy. Thailand will go broke." replies.

You're still here illegally! Go home or get a proper visa!

[freedomnow]

OK... Just called again.

I need to amend my post, 6 months of tourist stamps and visas over 2 years and you get questioned and need to prove you are a genuine tourist. Not sure what the questions will be. You also get a red stamp in your passport if you are allowed back in.

6 months of stamps and visas over the last 12 months and you will be deemed not a tourist and refused no matter what visa you have or whether you are coming on a second entry from a double entry visa.

What if you are coming back in on an education visa after 6 months of stamps and visas over the last 12 months or more ?

[bangrak]

Now we will here from all the cry babies who been living in Thailand with these tourist visa. Either get a proper visa or go home.

Any advice for someone under 50 that isn't married with no Thai children, that working outside of Thailand on a 6 week on 6 week off rotation, that wishes to spend his time off in Thailand??? Any suggestions???

Setup a business.

I'm sorry, that is a completely bloody ridiculous suggestion for someone who is working 6 weeks on somewhere and wants to take their 6 weeks off in Thailand.

You are suggesting that they invest however many million baht in the country, employ four Thai nationals, and instead of chilling on the beach somewhere during their 6 weeks holiday time, actually work? And what about the six weeks they aren't in the country? What do they do then?

The point is there are legitimate tourists who AREN'T working here but for one reason or the other would like to spend a bit longer in the place.

When you are spending every of your 6weeks off turns in Thailand, IMHO, you're technically not a tourist anymore, and are you still legally considered as a resident in your home country by the way (no tricks?), or did you have yourself registered on the expats list of your embassy, what would confirm that you are not a tourist anymore here indeed...

[kaobang]

I love the "but all of us here illegally are injecting money into the economy. Thailand will go broke." replies.

You're still here illegally! Go home or get a proper visa!

i did not know i was in thailand illegally

this guy does not know too

We own a condo in Hua Hin, so no travel itinerary or hotel bookings.... we like to golf and sit on the beach. Normally get a double or tgriple entry tourist visa and stay for the winter months.

We spend a lot of $$ in Thailand, golfing and such are not cheap. If indeed we are denied entry , it is quite likely we will sell and never return.

[MrWorldwide]

For those who have a genuine reason to visit Thailand several times a year, I dont understand why you wouldnt have an outbound ticket as a matter of course. When I check-in for an international flight in Australia, the airline staff (including AirAsia) now insist on seeing details of my return flight before giving me my boarding pass - they know it will be the airlines responsibility to remove me from my destination if I'm denied entry. Admittedly I havent been asked for any form of onward ticket when I board a flight in KL or Singapore, but I believe it will happen as a matter of course when the airlines are forced to remove more people from Swampy, DM and Phuket.

None of this is new to the airlines or Immigration - it simply hasnt been a sufficiently big issue for the regional 'bus stations' to insist on proof of outward travel.

'

[seancbk]

If anyone needs to calculate the total time they've been in and out of Thailand this online calculator is quite handy http://www.timeanddate.com/date/durationresult.html

I've just worked out that on my current passport I've been here since 20th August 2013 as follows :-

90 days on a Non B

Then between 23 Nov, 2013 and 22 May, 2014 I was in and out with 6 back to back Visa exemptions for a total of 162 days

And so far I've been here since the 29 May, 2014 for 49 days on a 60 day Tourist visa.

So that is 10 months, 27 days since 20 Aug, 2013 (and does not take into account my two previous passports)

Looks like I'm going to have to do some explaining....

[bangrak]

OK... Just called again.

I need to amend my post, 6 months of tourist stamps and visas over 2 years and you get questioned and need to prove you are a genuine tourist. Not sure what the questions will be. You also get a red stamp in your passport if you are allowed back in.

6 months of stamps and visas over the last 12 months and you will be deemed not a tourist and refused no matter what visa you have or whether you are coming on a second entry from a double entry visa.

What if you are coming back in on an education visa after 6 months of stamps and visas over the last 12 months or more ?

Ah-ha, another candidate for that disgusting so-called 'education visa' scam, when will that side-door be closed for all the many ones abusing this system? Tomorrow, I hope!

[Trouble]

So far, five pages of comments. Get a grip everyone. They have begun to enforce the law. If you have been violating the intent of the law with regards to tourist visas, you know it. What's with all the comments and questions? If you have based your life on violating the law, who is supposed to feel sorry for you? You have probably had a good run over the years and now it's time to either get with the program or move on. What's so difficult?

[seancbk]

For those who have a genuine reason to visit Thailand several times a year, I dont understand why you wouldnt have an outbound ticket as a matter of course. When I check-in for an international flight in Australia, the airline staff (including AirAsia) now insist on seeing details of my return flight before giving me my boarding pass - they know it will be the airlines responsibility to remove me from my destination if I'm denied entry. Admittedly I havent been asked for any form of onward ticket when I board a flight in KL or Singapore, but I believe it will happen as a matter of course when the airlines are forced to remove more people from Swampy, DM and Phuket.

None of this is new to the airlines or Immigration - it simply hasnt been a sufficiently big issue for the regional 'bus stations' to insist on proof of outward travel.

'

When I moved here in 2008 (I was headhunted from Hong Kong) I flew in on a one way ticket.

Since then I've always been flying from Bangkok to somewhere else and then ultimately back (home) to Bangkok.

I've been asked twice by Air Asia staff in Macau for a ticket back out and I've always just told them I live in Bangkok.

With this new crackdown however, I will, I suppose just purchase an extra leg to satisfy immigration that I already have the onward ticket.

Its daft considering you can but the ticket anytime, no real reason you should be holding it ahead of time.

Of course I will be leaving every 90 days or so anyway, I just prefer to book the ticket closer to the date I want to travel rather than 90 days ahead, because I never know what party there might be that I could miss (Here, Macau or HK).

[Expattaff1308]

Probably you got a new passport and transferred the old visa to the new passport this automatically updates the database...

Not at all, my previous Passport only held excempt entries as did the majority of the new one until I retired when I got an OA...and that was 6yrs into the passport.

Like I said I dont know what data is available but dont be surprised if they know more than people give them credit for!

[bangrak]

OK... Just called again.

I need to amend my post, 6 months of tourist stamps and xisas over 2 years and you get questioned and need to prove you are a genuine tourist. Not sure what the questions will be. You also get a red stamp in your passport if you are allowed back in.

6 months of stamps and visas over the last 12 months and you will be deemed not a tourist and refused no matter what visa you have or whether you are coming on a second entry from a double entry visa.

Thanks for the info, of course we will have to see if this is indeed the policy.

I signed up today for a 6 month Thai language course as a stop gap.

I'm forming a new company, but my current tourist visa will expire before the new company is ready and I can begin the process of getting a non B and a work permit, so I was hoping the Ed visa would cover me for a month or 2 while the company setup is completed.

Did you contact make any mention of how long a person will be turned away for, assuming they are?

Yep, you take 6months Thai course 'as a stop gap', you form a new company, but you consider yourself as a tourist, and are convinced you are not contraveining the visa rules, sure, no prob... Just shows you guys' mindset... Can't get a proper visa, get out, stay away! Thailand, and us Farang staying here legally, for sure don't need you to be here as much as you want to...

[bangrak]

A hypothetical case.

A Belgian spends 4 and a half months in Thailand then 1 and a half months in Belgium and repeats this cycle over and over. He covers his 4 and a half months in Thailand with a double entry tourist visa each time.

How would this be viewed by immigration?

(Assume said Belgian is 38 years old, not married to a Thai, has a rental property and 100,000 Euros of investments in Belgium which provide an income).

Hmmm I think it could be more suspect than me.

I spend 4-5 months (Nov-March) mostly in Thailand, but than I stay out half a year. I think it's clear i am not working in Thailand. I hope so.

You also don't look to be working in Thailand, if you stay 3 months outside, but if they apply the rule (?) 180 days every 360 days, you are burnt, because you spend more time in Thailand than abroad.

The problem it is not clear, there are no numbers and cases like yours are in that grey area.

However if you always have exit tickets and never go to neighbour countries by land, your chances to be considered tourist increase.

But It is possible you would be forced to spend more time abroad and little bit less time in Thailand.

Let's see after 12 August what happen and try to stay in touch with the Thai Embassy in Belgium.

In which hotel/resort/restaurant is your hypothetical Belgian working illegally during the touristic high seasons, while falsely staying here as a tourist?

[AYJAYDEE]

I love the "but all of us here illegally are injecting money into the economy. Thailand will go broke." replies.

You're still here illegally! Go home or get a proper visa!

i did not know i was in thailand illegally

this guy does not know too

We own a condo in Hua Hin, so no travel itinerary or hotel bookings.... we like to golf and sit on the beach. Normally get a double or tgriple entry tourist visa and stay for the winter months.

We spend a lot of $$ in Thailand, golfing and such are not cheap. If indeed we are denied entry , it is quite likely we will sell and never return.

the condo folks are legal

[MrWorldwide]

OK... Just called again.

I need to amend my post, 6 months of tourist stamps and visas over 2 years and you get questioned and need to prove you are a genuine tourist. Not sure what the questions will be. You also get a red stamp in your passport if you are allowed back in.

6 months of stamps and visas over the last 12 months and you will be deemed not a tourist and refused no matter what visa you have or whether you are coming on a second entry from a double entry visa.

What if you are coming back in on an education visa after 6 months of stamps and visas over the last 12 months or more ?

Ah-ha, another candidate for that disgusting so-called 'education visa' scam, when will that side-door be closed for all the many ones abusing this system? Tomorrow, I hope!

Get a grip - its obvious that Immigration are already tightening this particular loophole, but has it occurred to you that some folk might actually attend classes ? Your tone speaks volumes about your attitude - those of us who have the legal right to stay in this country for the next ~12 months need to cut those who currently dont some slack, particularly when we wont be the people sitting in a Thai language class at 9am on a Monday morning,

[bangrak]

I would wager that embassy and consulates are processing higher a than average number of lost passport requests in light of the visa crackdown... A clean passport gives you a clean start at the borders...

Not true at all. When they scan a passport, the history comes up. In fact a blank passport book is probably going to be under even further scrutiny.

Thai scan system is not very good.

Databases are not well connected. Someone spoke to office about it here already...

There is a chance with new passport.

Reading many of you guys looking to find a trick, a gap, to stay here, in a dishonest and illegal way, makes me nauseous, and wish the visa rules will be made far more stringent in the future, and of strict application. Go get a life, somewhere else, you sad bunch!

[MrWorldwide]

For those who have a genuine reason to visit Thailand several times a year, I dont understand why you wouldnt have an outbound ticket as a matter of course. When I check-in for an international flight in Australia, the airline staff (including AirAsia) now insist on seeing details of my return flight before giving me my boarding pass - they know it will be the airlines responsibility to remove me from my destination if I'm denied entry. Admittedly I havent been asked for any form of onward ticket when I board a flight in KL or Singapore, but I believe it will happen as a matter of course when the airlines are forced to remove more people from Swampy, DM and Phuket.

None of this is new to the airlines or Immigration - it simply hasnt been a sufficiently big issue for the regional 'bus stations' to insist on proof of outward travel.

'

When I moved here in 2008 (I was headhunted from Hong Kong) I flew in on a one way ticket.

Since then I've always been flying from Bangkok to somewhere else and then ultimately back (home) to Bangkok.

I've been asked twice by Air Asia staff in Macau for a ticket back out and I've always just told them I live in Bangkok.

With this new crackdown however, I will, I suppose just purchase an extra leg to satisfy immigration that I already have the onward ticket.

Its daft considering you can but the ticket anytime, no real reason you should be holding it ahead of time.

Of course I will be leaving every 90 days or so anyway, I just prefer to book the ticket closer to the date I want to travel rather than 90 days ahead, because I never know what party there might be that I could miss (Here, Macau or HK).

I'm a little confused - you moved to Thailand in 2008 for work so surely you've had a Non-Imm B and a work permit ever since ? That isnt the situation I'm referring to - have I read your post incorrectly ?

[Bulldozer Dawn]

I love the "but all of us here illegally are injecting money into the economy. Thailand will go broke." replies.

You're still here illegally! Go home or get a proper visa!

i did not know i was in thailand illegally

this guy does not know too

We own a condo in Hua Hin, so no travel itinerary or hotel bookings.... we like to golf and sit on the beach. Normally get a double or tgriple entry tourist visa and stay for the winter months.

We spend a lot of $$ in Thailand, golfing and such are not cheap. If indeed we are denied entry , it is quite likely we will sell and never return.

the condo folks are legal

Stop making statements out of your butt. What about those that have leased condos. Nothing is clear at the moment. Just the way those in line for tea money like it.

[seancbk]

OK... Just called again.

I need to amend my post, 6 months of tourist stamps and xisas over 2 years and you get questioned and need to prove you are a genuine tourist. Not sure what the questions will be. You also get a red stamp in your passport if you are allowed back in.

6 months of stamps and visas over the last 12 months and you will be deemed not a tourist and refused no matter what visa you have or whether you are coming on a second entry from a double entry visa.

Thanks for the info, of course we will have to see if this is indeed the policy.

I signed up today for a 6 month Thai language course as a stop gap.

I'm forming a new company, but my current tourist visa will expire before the new company is ready and I can begin the process of getting a non B and a work permit, so I was hoping the Ed visa would cover me for a month or 2 while the company setup is completed.

Did you contact make any mention of how long a person will be turned away for, assuming they are?

Yep, you take 6months Thai course 'as a stop gap', you form a new company, but you consider yourself as a tourist, and are convinced you are not contraveining the visa rules, sure, no prob... Just shows you guys' mindset... Can't get a proper visa, get out, stay away! Thailand, and us Farang staying here legally, for sure don't need you to be here as much as you want to...

I have good reasons for the visas I've been on. Originally I was on a Non B, totally valid as I was here negotiating a very large business merger between a listed Thai company and another Thai company.

The merger has finally gone through and the new company formation can begin, but there will be a gap in the time required for me to switch to a Non B and process my work permit.

Seeing as how I will be living in Thailand in my new role I also want to learn Thai. I just haven't until now had the time to have lessons, nor needed to.

I'm using a bit of spare time before I am back on a Non B and WP to spend time learning the language. Although the ED visa I am applying for is 6 months I will most likely only use the Ed visa for 2 months then have it cancelled and replaced with a Non B. I will however still go to my Thai classes to learn the language.

It might be a good idea if you didn't make assumptions about who people are and what they do. Not everyone fits your obviously warped opinion of people.

[Jayman]

For those of us that work offshore, whether we have Thai families or not, I really hope common sense prevails here and we are not classed as a visa "hopper" or working here in Thailand.

Surely if we have contracts, visas for working outside of Thailand for 4 - 6 weeks at a time and a return ticket to go back to our country of work we should be granted entry on tourist visa for 28 days?????

For those who are commenting of where we stay hotel or our own house, this should not even matter. We are all contributing to the economy one way or another.

Tourist visas grant a 60 day stay. If you leave after 28 days only to return 4-6 weeks later then I don't see how you could be classified as a visa hopper.

[baboon]

I would wager that embassy and consulates are processing higher a than average number of lost passport requests in light of the visa crackdown... A clean passport gives you a clean start at the borders...

Not true at all. When they scan a passport, the history comes up. In fact a blank passport book is probably going to be under even further scrutiny.

Thai scan system is not very good.

Databases are not well connected. Someone spoke to office about it here already...

There is a chance with new passport.

Reading many of you guys looking to find a trick, a gap, to stay here, in a dishonest and illegal way, makes me nauseous, and wish the visa rules will be made far more stringent in the future, and of strict application. Go get a life, somewhere else, you sad bunch!

If your life is so rewarding and fulfilling, why do you feel the need to post the same invective time and time and time again?

We all get it - you're fabulous and most of the rest of us are lower than whale crap. Now can you please give it a rest?

[seancbk]

I'm a little confused - you moved to Thailand in 2008 for work so surely you've had a Non-Imm B and a work permit ever since ? That isnt the situation I'm referring to - have I read your post incorrectly ?

I'm confused too.

What difference does having a Non B and WP make to whether you need to show a ticket out?

Although it was during periods where I was between jobs and just coming here as a Tourist that I was asked.

[lostsoul49]

Hmmm I think it could be more suspect than me.

I spend 4-5 months (Nov-March) mostly in Thailand, but than I stay out half a year. I think it's clear i am not working in Thailand. I hope so.

You also don't look to be working in Thailand, if you stay 3 months outside, but if they apply the rule (?) 180 days every 360 days, you are burnt, because you spend more time in Thailand than abroad.

The problem it is not clear, there are no numbers and cases like yours are in that grey area.

However if you always have exit tickets and never go to neighbour countries by land, your chances to be considered tourist increase.

But It is possible you would be forced to spend more time abroad and little bit less time in Thailand.

Let's see after 12 August what happen and try to stay in touch with the Thai Embassy in Belgium.

Thanks for the answers.

Let's continue with this. Belgian flies in from Brussels with a new double entry tourist visa after 1 and a half months in Belgium. If the Immigration Officer is not really happy, what might happen?

It happens they can send you back. Very nasty indeed.

When that happens the airlines will become involved and things will get serious very quickly - within a matter of days.

You make a very good point indeed.

What happens when the airlines are having to deal with potentially scores of entry problems per day?

This could really mess up their logistics if they have to get passengers back out of Thailand, and what if all their flights are fully booked in the high season? They would probably have to route them through one or more country.

As a carrier, all passengers are the airline's responsibility until they have been given entry to the destination country.

[arunsakda]

OK... Just called again.

I need to amend my post, 6 months of tourist stamps and xisas over 2 years and you get questioned and need to prove you are a genuine tourist. Not sure what the questions will be. You also get a red stamp in your passport if you are allowed back in.

6 months of stamps and visas over the last 12 months and you will be deemed not a tourist and refused no matter what visa you have or whether you are coming on a second entry from a double entry visa.

Thanks for the info, of course we will have to see if this is indeed the policy.

I signed up today for a 6 month Thai language course as a stop gap.

I'm forming a new company, but my current tourist visa will expire before the new company is ready and I can begin the process of getting a non B and a work permit, so I was hoping the Ed visa would cover me for a month or 2 while the company setup is completed.

Did you contact make any mention of how long a person will be turned away for, assuming they are?

Sorry, she didn't say anything about it, so I assume she never asked.

I think I will get my own wife to ring up tomorrow and ask that question.

BTW I think you will be fine with your non imm B visa and the Ed visa.

They are just coming down on tourist visas.

I have a feeling in the coming months the Thai ed visa service that provides a Thai language course are going to exploit this situation and probably;y going to raise their fees considerably.

A good workaround for those getting questioned...

I just looked on agoda.com and there are some cheap hotels with cancellation policy of 1 day prior to check in... some are as cheap as 250 baht a night.

Book 2 weeks in advance from the date you are entering Thailand, then cancel and lose only 1 night's fees (250 baht) you can also book another week hotel in Chiang Mai and another week in say Korat to make it look like you already have a month booked, you can cancel CM and Korat and won't lose anything.

It will be hard not to look like a tourist with that printout from agoda. For a cost of 250 baht.... gets you across the border.

I would not anything like this which is tantamount to lying to Immigration.

[facebookboy]

5555, Except for the UK Passport Holders. What's the current waiting time for a new passport for them 8++ weeks ?

UK passport took me 4 days from within UK using the post office service. O Visa for Thailand then took 1 week, (sent to hull but the had to send to London for approval, had to prove i had £18000 in a UK bank account, (yes a UK bank account)

Hello

When did you send your application to Hull?

My understanding is that no Consulate in the UK now deals with any postal visa applications. UK Consulates can only deal with Tourist Visa applications made in person and cannot deal with O visa applications. I appreciate you have said that they (Hull) forwarded it to London for approval, when I spoke with not Hull recently on the phone they told me they would not and could not deal with O visa applications as per their website.

I have today just applied in person to a Consulate in the UK and received a two entry tourist visa. For the past three years I have been operating on a O Visa, but they increased all the paperwork for this visa namely criminal record check, medical report from UK doctor and proof of funds in a Thai bank for months prior to visa application.

Did you have to supply these evidences when submitting your O visa application?

Regards.

And in advance I do not have a criminal record.