Can I leave the country having a debt?

[Tzvika]

My wife got tropical disease and was sent by insurance company to the most expensive clinic, 40 th. baht per day. She didn't want to hospitilize until she've got a a gurantee letter and after half a day in the emergency she finally got it. Nevertheless after a week the letter was cancelled and we now have a huge debt that we unable to pay right away adn the hospital doesn't agree to divide it into monthly payments. And we have to fly home soon. Are we going to be allowed out of the country?

[oldsailor35]

If you don't tell them anything about flying. Up to you.

[ClutchClark]

The guarantee letter was cancelled?

Did her medical treatment change from what the letter had approved?

Was it the result of doctors re diagnosing the condition as "non-life threatening"?

Is this type of reversal common amongst health insurers?

Was it travelers insurance?

As for leaving an unpaid bill behind, I have read most of the expensive Internationally accredited hospitals are tied in with American hospitals and any unpaid bill would result in collection efforts in the US and negative reports to the Big 3 Credit Reporting Agencies.

Maybe a poor credit rating is no concern for non-Americans but a death knell for Americans in todays culture.

Good luck

[benalibina]

The guarantee letter was cancelled?

Did her medical treatment change from what the letter had approved?

Was it the result of doctors re diagnosing the condition as "non-life threatening"?

Is this type of reversal common amongst health insurers?

Was it travelers insurance?

As for leaving an unpaid bill behind, I have read most of the expensive Internationally accredited hospitals are tied in with American hospitals and any unpaid bill would result in collection efforts in the US and negative reports to the Big 3 Credit Reporting Agencies.

Maybe a poor credit rating is no concern for non-Americans but a death knell for Americans in todays culture.

Good luck

Your last sentence......are you so insular in your view of the world ? Jeezzzzz...this as you come overhere with sensible posts on a regular basis.

[BudRight]

I'm pretty sure this is false Clark.

The reason being that it would make it very difficult to comply with the Fair Credit Reporting act since the creditor must, under terms of the act, allow for resolution of disputes.

[roamer]

You owe money to an organisation that you are trying to come to a resolution with. There is no court judgement against you, you have no obligation to tell them you are leaving the country. Certainly you need to be taking this up with the insurance company, the one thing I will say that it's not in the DNA of an insurance company to pick the most expensive clinic, usually the reverse.

[ClutchClark]

The guarantee letter was cancelled?

Did her medical treatment change from what the letter had approved?

Was it the result of doctors re diagnosing the condition as "non-life threatening"?

Is this type of reversal common amongst health insurers?

Was it travelers insurance?

As for leaving an unpaid bill behind, I have read most of the expensive Internationally accredited hospitals are tied in with American hospitals and any unpaid bill would result in collection efforts in the US and negative reports to the Big 3 Credit Reporting Agencies.

Maybe a poor credit rating is no concern for non-Americans but a death knell for Americans in todays culture.

Good luck

Your last sentence......are you so insular in your view of the world ? Jeezzzzz...this as you come overhere with sensible posts on a regular basis.

Ouch.

I sadly admit that I have no idea if the Big 3 Credit Reporting Agencies (CRAs) in the US track credit histories of people in other countries. Nor do I have any idea how much influence an individuals credit report affects their daily life as compared to the US. In the US, a person with a poor credit history will often be denied far more than future loans but will be turned down for job openings, will not be able to rent an apartment, will pay more for their auto insurance, etc..

Ofcourse, if someone with combined direct experience would like to compare and contrast other nations practices against the US, I would be interested.

My own credit rating has gone down in recent years since I have no mortgage, do not carry credit card debt (pay in full each month), pay cash for automobiles, etc..

Cheers

[ClutchClark]

You owe money to an organisation that you are trying to come to a resolution with. There is no court judgement against you, you have no obligation to tell them you are leaving the country. Certainly you need to be taking this up with the insurance company, the one thing I will say that it's not in the DNA of an insurance company to pick the most expensive clinic, usually the reverse.

Its a bit more complex than that because the deal made between clinics and insurance companies is typically a fraction of what the itemized invoice indicates, i.e. The one that the consumer sees. It might be that the negotiated rate for services between provider and insurer actually makes the most expensive hospital more competitive than we realize.

[NeverSure]

It doesn't matter if a company (hospital) is international. It comes under the laws of the country its doing business in, and its home country's courts don't have jurisdiction over things Thailand. Those come under Thai law.

And no, the USA Fair Credit Reporting Act would preclude reporting something acted upon under Thai law.

I do have a question. I seem to have heard that a creditor could file something to keep a foreigner from leaving Thailand. It would be interesting if anyone knows if that's true. ??

[claffey]

There was the case of the guy who allegedly thrashed his house and refused to pay damages. He was stuck in Thai for a few years until acquitted. I suspect it was for criminal damage as opposed to a debt...However I do believe it is a criminal offence not to pay a debt in Thai??????

[chiang mai]

If the hospital files a police complaint the passports can be flagged at Immigration and the holders prevented from leaving, I personally know of one farang this happened to in CM about eight years ago.

[ClutchClark]

I'm pretty sure this is false Clark.

The reason being that it would make it very difficult to comply with the Fair Credit Reporting act since the creditor must, under terms of the act, allow for resolution of disputes.

Although I understand what you are saying, I recall that the Thai hospitals affiliated with US Hospitals have every capability of working within the US FCRA, including dispute resolution...but since it wasn't me personally, I don't know the specifics. It could be that the procedure was booked through a US based medical tour operator.

All I am really saying is that if the OP is going to make a break for the border, its possible this debt might follow him.

Cheers

[Neeranam]

How can they cancel a letter?

[Tzvika]

Ok,

First of all I'm not American citizen and I'm not concerned anyhow with inability to take loans, anyhow almost noone takes them in my home country and overall no agency could posibly care about this since we have a war with Russia now.

As for "why did it actually happen" it's like this - my wife is a citizen of 2 countries - one passport was used for making insurance the other one for entering Thailand (we just were not aware it might be a problem). All the time she was in the hospital insurance was keeping saying don't worry everything will be ok but at the last day they suddenly realized that she has two passport and happily used this to cancel guarantee letter.

Of course this caused a shock since we better be at home with Dengue than have such a huge debt. And we are with kids here we can't just give them all money and sleep on the street and anyhow it will be much less than the debt. (And yes, the ins company sent us to the most expensive clinic here) Also hospital wants either all at once or in two parts and do not agree for monthly payments.

Anyhow, let's say they file the complaint - doesn't it have to go through the court? Isn't it supposed to take a few months?

[Jdiddy]

Keep trying to negotiate and stall up untill the day you fly out? How soon are you to fly out?

Do they know the details of the passport she used for entering Thailand?

edit: Your insurance would of payed the hospital wouldnt they? So the hospital should be happy, I reckon you'll be right

[Tzvika]

More than a month..Unfortunately they printed out the data of the both passports (that's why the ins company cancelled the letter - they sent both passports)

[robblok]

To be honest this really sounds like an insurance problem and you will have to go after them. I mean if you have insurance it should not matter how you enter a country.

[Tzvika]

I know, my friend is a medical lawyer and he says there is absolutely no problem to sue them as we arrive home but I need solution for now..

[Tzvika]

Ok! The problem apparently was solved. The consulate approved that the owner of the two passport is the same person and the company agreed to issue the letter

[jacko45k]

The guarantee letter was cancelled?

Did her medical treatment change from what the letter had approved?

Was it the result of doctors re diagnosing the condition as "non-life threatening"?

Is this type of reversal common amongst health insurers?

Was it travelers insurance?

As for leaving an unpaid bill behind, I have read most of the expensive Internationally accredited hospitals are tied in with American hospitals and any unpaid bill would result in collection efforts in the US and negative reports to the Big 3 Credit Reporting Agencies.

Maybe a poor credit rating is no concern for non-Americans but a death knell for Americans in todays culture.

Good luck

Your last sentence......are you so insular in your view of the world ? Jeezzzzz...this as you come overhere with sensible posts on a regular basis.

Seems a harsh reaction to 'Good Luck'

[kerrysum]

The guarantee letter was cancelled?

Did her medical treatment change from what the letter had approved?

Was it the result of doctors re diagnosing the condition as "non-life threatening"?

Is this type of reversal common amongst health insurers?

Was it travelers insurance?

As for leaving an unpaid bill behind, I have read most of the expensive Internationally accredited hospitals are tied in with American hospitals and any unpaid bill would result in collection efforts in the US and negative reports to the Big 3 Credit Reporting Agencies.

Maybe a poor credit rating is no concern for non-Americans but a death knell for Americans in todays culture.

Good luck

Your last sentence......are you so insular in your view of the world ? Jeezzzzz...this as you come overhere with sensible posts on a regular basis.

Ouch.

I sadly admit that I have no idea if the Big 3 Credit Reporting Agencies (CRAs) in the US track credit histories of people in other countries. Nor do I have any idea how much influence an individuals credit report affects their daily life as compared to the US. In the US, a person with a poor credit history will often be denied far more than future loans but will be turned down for job openings, will not be able to rent an apartment, will pay more for their auto insurance, etc..

Ofcourse, if someone with combined direct experience would like to compare and contrast other nations practices against the US, I would be interested.

My own credit rating has gone down in recent years since I have no mortgage, do not carry credit card debt (pay in full each month), pay cash for automobiles, etc..

Cheers

That's kinda strange, I pay my credit off every month and have for years... My credit rating is tops right now...Kerry

[kerrysum]

Ok,

First of all I'm not American citizen and I'm not concerned anyhow with inability to take loans, anyhow almost noone takes them in my home country and overall no agency could posibly care about this since we have a war with Russia now.

As for "why did it actually happen" it's like this - my wife is a citizen of 2 countries - one passport was used for making insurance the other one for entering Thailand (we just were not aware it might be a problem). All the time she was in the hospital insurance was keeping saying don't worry everything will be ok but at the last day they suddenly realized that she has two passport and happily used this to cancel guarantee letter.

Of course this caused a shock since we better be at home with Dengue than have such a huge debt. And we are with kids here we can't just give them all money and sleep on the street and anyhow it will be much less than the debt. (And yes, the ins company sent us to the most expensive clinic here) Also hospital wants either all at once or in two parts and do not agree for monthly payments.

Anyhow, let's say they file the complaint - doesn't it have to go through the court? Isn't it supposed to take a few months?

Something isn't adding up here......

[GAZZPA]

The guarantee letter was cancelled?

Did her medical treatment change from what the letter had approved?

Was it the result of doctors re diagnosing the condition as "non-life threatening"?

Is this type of reversal common amongst health insurers?

Was it travelers insurance?

As for leaving an unpaid bill behind, I have read most of the expensive Internationally accredited hospitals are tied in with American hospitals and any unpaid bill would result in collection efforts in the US and negative reports to the Big 3 Credit Reporting Agencies.

Maybe a poor credit rating is no concern for non-Americans but a death knell for Americans in todays culture.

Good luck

I don't believe this is correct. In essence the hospital has allowed credit for the treatment. There is no International credit scoring present today. Also, it is "almost" impossible for a debt in Thailand to be enforced in the US. The conditions of your treatment and the outstanding debt comes under Thai jurisdiction not US and there is no reciprocal agreement between Thailand and the US as far as I am aware.

The worst that can happen is that the Thai company contact a US collection company to try and collect the debt BUT as I said earlier they have no jurisdiction to collect and enforce through the courts.

Having said all that it seems you have some work to do with your insurance company first and foremost. Secondly if it does transpire that you have to pay it then the hospital can complain all they like,, if you haven't got the money they can't get blood out of a stone. As this is Thailand and you never really know the consequences of that kind of statement I would fly back home, then contact the hospital with a payment plan that clears the debt in a reasonable time. I would not just leave it because coming back to Thailand could then be an issue for you as you will most certainly be chased for the debt.

I am not an expert but I am fairly sure you have no fear of the debt following you. So probably worth getting advice.

Good luck.

[GAZZPA]

The guarantee letter was cancelled?

Did her medical treatment change from what the letter had approved?

Was it the result of doctors re diagnosing the condition as "non-life threatening"?

Is this type of reversal common amongst health insurers?

Was it travelers insurance?

As for leaving an unpaid bill behind, I have read most of the expensive Internationally accredited hospitals are tied in with American hospitals and any unpaid bill would result in collection efforts in the US and negative reports to the Big 3 Credit Reporting Agencies.

Maybe a poor credit rating is no concern for non-Americans but a death knell for Americans in todays culture.

Good luck

Your last sentence......are you so insular in your view of the world ? Jeezzzzz...this as you come overhere with sensible posts on a regular basis.

Ouch.

I sadly admit that I have no idea if the Big 3 Credit Reporting Agencies (CRAs) in the US track credit histories of people in other countries. Nor do I have any idea how much influence an individuals credit report affects their daily life as compared to the US. In the US, a person with a poor credit history will often be denied far more than future loans but will be turned down for job openings, will not be able to rent an apartment, will pay more for their auto insurance, etc..

Ofcourse, if someone with combined direct experience would like to compare and contrast other nations practices against the US, I would be interested.

My own credit rating has gone down in recent years since I have no mortgage, do not carry credit card debt (pay in full each month), pay cash for automobiles, etc..

Cheers

That's kinda strange, I pay my credit off every month and have for years... My credit rating is tops right now...Kerry

I agree, if you have nothing at all on credit then your credit rating is non existent, then it can be a problem getting credit. but if you have a credit card and its paid every month and you have some cash in the bank your credit rating will be excellent for sure.

[ClutchClark]

The guarantee letter was cancelled?

Did her medical treatment change from what the letter had approved?

Was it the result of doctors re diagnosing the condition as "non-life threatening"?

Is this type of reversal common amongst health insurers?

Was it travelers insurance?

As for leaving an unpaid bill behind, I have read most of the expensive Internationally accredited hospitals are tied in with American hospitals and any unpaid bill would result in collection efforts in the US and negative reports to the Big 3 Credit Reporting Agencies.

Maybe a poor credit rating is no concern for non-Americans but a death knell for Americans in todays culture.

Good luck

Your last sentence......are you so insular in your view of the world ? Jeezzzzz...this as you come overhere with sensible posts on a regular basis.

Ouch.

I sadly admit that I have no idea if the Big 3 Credit Reporting Agencies (CRAs) in the US track credit histories of people in other countries. Nor do I have any idea how much influence an individuals credit report affects their daily life as compared to the US. In the US, a person with a poor credit history will often be denied far more than future loans but will be turned down for job openings, will not be able to rent an apartment, will pay more for their auto insurance, etc..

Ofcourse, if someone with combined direct experience would like to compare and contrast other nations practices against the US, I would be interested.

My own credit rating has gone down in recent years since I have no mortgage, do not carry credit card debt (pay in full each month), pay cash for automobiles, etc..

Cheers

That's kinda strange, I pay my credit off every month and have for years... My credit rating is tops right now...Kerry

Strange but true. If you carry a balance each month then you actually receive a higher rating. The idea is that you are more "desirable" to a lender if they can make money in interest. You should read up on how it works.

Its not uncommon for retirees credit rating to drop in the years following retirement as they are not as active participants in the world of lending. No fixed term loans also lowers your credit rating.

The main thing is the OP was successful in holding their insurer to honor their responsibility. The 2nd passport would be reasonable grounds to hold up the payment process for fear it was paying out on the wrong person. Can't blame the insurer for demanding verification from the issuer of the passport.

Do many people travel with two passports, other than James Bourne? It sure seems like a good way to create confusion.

[ClutchClark]

The guarantee letter was cancelled?

Did her medical treatment change from what the letter had approved?

Was it the result of doctors re diagnosing the condition as "non-life threatening"?

Is this type of reversal common amongst health insurers?

Was it travelers insurance?

As for leaving an unpaid bill behind, I have read most of the expensive Internationally accredited hospitals are tied in with American hospitals and any unpaid bill would result in collection efforts in the US and negative reports to the Big 3 Credit Reporting Agencies.

Maybe a poor credit rating is no concern for non-Americans but a death knell for Americans in todays culture.

Good luck

I don't believe this is correct. In essence the hospital has allowed credit for the treatment. There is no International credit scoring present today. Also, it is "almost" impossible for a debt in Thailand to be enforced in the US. The conditions of your treatment and the outstanding debt comes under Thai jurisdiction not US and there is no reciprocal agreement between Thailand and the US as far as I am aware.

The worst that can happen is that the Thai company contact a US collection company to try and collect the debt BUT as I said earlier they have no jurisdiction to collect and enforce through the courts.

****Since the OP has received a resolution to their problem, I will leave this final off-topic response. Please remove it if desired.****

GAZZPA, I hope you don't provide legal advice for a living.

http://www.stacollect.com/debt-collection/international-debt-collection

A 5-minute google search immediately supports what common sense should have...yes, your foreign debt can be pursued here in the US. It can cost them more to do so (needing to find a US CA and/or a US attorney), so the level where they may decide not to pursue could be higher. But costs added on can be higher, too.

Secondly, a Thai business can have a "sister" company or subsidiary in the US which makes the collection effort even easier.

Cheers

[craigt3365]

OK, please back to the topic. This isn't about America.

[ChoakMyDee]

Glad to see a resolution. Good luck to the OP.

[belg]

is she thai or farang and did u have a valid travel insurance or not ?

[Tzvika]

She is farang, travel insurance was 100% valid and his was just a reason for the company not to pay since it is clear this is the same person in the passports. You all know what the insurance companies are - if there is a slightest reason not to pay they won't.

I spoke to my friend medical lawyer (good lawyer, former advisor of the health minister) who was helping me out in this situation - he said it's not just because of the consulate rather because of the pressure created from different sides and clear understanding they will have to go to court - not worth it

ANyhow, what would be the minimal amount thai instituations bother going to court? Do they have to go to court at all like in Europe?