Royal Thai Embassies and Consulates unaware of visa crackdown

[Jonathan Fairfield]

Royal Thai Embassies and Consulates unaware of visa crackdown

Image: file photo Shutterstock

BANGKOK:-- Thaivisa.com has been in touch with senior officials from Royal Thai Embassies and Consulates in Sweden, the UK and Australia in order to provide Thaivisa members and the wider expat community in Thailand with as much information as possible on the current visa crackdown.

One thing that has become apparent since news of the crackdown first broke is that it seems Thai Embassies and Consulates are still freely issuing tourist visas to individuals even if they have a history of back to back tourist visas or several visa exempt entries.

From the point of view of the Embassies and Consulates it seems to be very much business as normal.

To avoid situations where individuals are being denied entry at the border, should the Royal Thai Embassies and Consulates now be actively refusing to issue tourists visas to the people with several previous visa exempt entries or back to back tourist visas?

A senior official at the Royal Thai Embassy in Stockholm, who asked not to be named, confirmed to Thaivisa.com that they have had no communication or guidance from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs regarding the visa crackdown.

A Consul-General in Australia confirmed that he has also not received any information from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs regarding the crackdown.

The Royal Thai Embassy in Stockholm confirmed that it will continue to issue double and triple entry tourist visas, that is despite Immigration officials saying that “you are a tourist for 30 days, not more.”

“When a person applies for a tourist visa, and we believe that his purpose is tourism then we will issue a visa for him, and if he wants double or triple then it’s up to him, said the official at the Royal Thai Embassy in Stockholm.

“But if the immigration officer at the border does not believe that he is a tourist then the officer can deny entry.

“A visa is not a guarantee that you can enter the country, that decision is made by the immigration officer at border check-point. It’s the same with every country around the world.

“Even if a Swedish passport holder can stay in thailand for up to 30 days without a visa, an immigration officer can deny his entry or give him 7 days or 15 days. Or if a person have a 60 days visa and the officer decided to only give him 7 days, then it’s up to the officer, and the decision is case by case.

As long as your purpose is tourism and you can show that you can support yourself in the country, then you have nothing to worry about.”

Thaivisa also asked what the Embassy in Stockholm would recommend for a Swedish national, under the age of 50, not retired, not married to a Thai but who wants to stay in Thailand for a period of 6 months every year without being denied entry at the airport or border on his 2nd TR60 entry?

“We will recommend that they shall bring with them papers that shows how they support themselves while in Thailand during that time. And that they shall be prepared to answer the question from immigration about what they are doing in Thailand.”

This follows on from advice issued previously that ‘tourists’ should be able to provide evidence of hotel/accommodation bookings, a travel itinerary and have funds of 20,000 THB in cash.

It would not be advisable to show proof of property ownership or long term rental agreements on condos or houses as this would suggest that you are not a bona fide tourist and are planning to stay in Thailand long term.

Finally, the Royal Thai Embassy in Stockholm said it understands from the Immigration Bureau in Thailand, the new regulation is mainly for people who use tourist visas, but are in the country for other reasons than being an actual tourist.

-- 2014-07-18

[ubonjoe]

Not surprising at all. Immigration is part of one ministry and the embassies and consulates another.

Also I have seen nothing in writing issued by immigration about turning people back with tourist visas. Why should the Ministry of Foreign Affairs do anything without something official being released.

The only thing somewhat official I have seen only refers to visa exempt entries.

[smudgekin]

Theres been a page on the Danish thai Embassy web site for a few days at least about visa runs

http://thaiembassy.dk/announcement-visarun/

[LivinLOS]

And once again..

What defines a tourist ??

What is the difference between a temporary resident and a tourist ??

How many is too many.. Too long.. Too much..

All vague unclear and undefined.. Once again Thailand simply cannot write clear and firm rules or guidelines.

[ukrules]

Clarification will come after the August 12th deadline.

[snottgoblin]

Seems as if chaos is the order of the day.

Edited July 18, 2014 by snottgoblin

[KarenBravo]

Seems as if chaos is the order of the day.

Isn't that the very definition of Thailand?

[chrisinth]

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Clarification will come after the August 12th deadline.

It would seem logical (yeah, yeah) that clarification would be given before the 12th August.

Again, how relevant is the 12th August now regarding land crossings? They seem to be implementing their restrictions already, the 12th/13th August will be addressing entry by air.

At least, that's how I understand it with the information I have seen, the official release being contradictory to what is actually happening, ie, the official release only addressing visa exempt.

[JDGRUEN]

Clarification will come after the August 12th deadline.

Yes - I believe you are correct. However, it will take some time for that after the chaos sets in. Lines (queues) stacking up a obscure (in comparison) land border checkpoints is a far different thing than lines stacking up at an International Airport. Passengers who have flown 15,000 K. will not be in a mood to take being turned away lightly and when in large numbers - the noise will be loud. Then there is the factor of airlines being made responsible to pay for the flight back for those turned completely turned away. It will be a mess.

Even though people know that Thai Immigration Authorities are a no nonsense group of people - passengers trying to gain entry and denied after just getting a new visa in their home country will be incensed and will forget the risks they are taking.

Failure to a least give passengers who are set to fly up to 15,000 - 18000 kilometers a special case leaflet warning them that a newly issued tourist visas are going to be heavily scrutinized and does not guarantee entry and a similar warning for those going without a visa relying on an Exemption would be unconscionable. But I think it is going to happen.

And please before making 'cat call' comments remember most tourist who come to Thailand are not Thaivisa.com junkies and likely never heard of it.... so they are not going to know about any of this. Even those with many stamps in their passport.

I think it would be quite entertaining to sit near the immigration stations and watch the show that is going to happen - popcorn in hand.

[ubonjoe]

Theres been a page on the Danish thai Embassy web site for a few days at least about visa runs

http://thaiembassy.dk/announcement-visarun/

Similar info has been posted on the forum from the MFA and other embassies/consulates.. With no mention of tourist visas.

[JLCrab]

The famous line from US Supreme Court Associate Justice Potter Stewart in a 1964 obscenity case --

I shall not attempt today to further define (what is Hard-core pornography) ... but I know it when I see it.

*****

In response to post #9, I do not think the show at BKK will be as you state as the average traveler to Thailand (as of 2012) spends only 10 days in Thailand and most arrivals by air will be using only 1 or 2 visa-exempt entry and a single entry tourist visa else those per-stay numbers would skew much higher.

Edited July 18, 2014 by JLCrab

[wilcopops]

I have said for some time now that one should be very concerned about the implementation and scope of this crackdown.

Edited July 18, 2014 by wilcopops

[Garnethoyes]

Seems as if chaos is the order of the day.

Isn't that the very definition of Thailand?

Isn't that why we all just love it here ?

[gemini81]

Its just up to the officer..case by case...hi right hand, I'm left hand. Need something more systematic and methodical than this farce.

[slipperylobster]

Seems as if chaos is the order of the day.

Chaos, with the added benefit of a SNAFU !

[ubonjoe]

I have said for some time now that one should be very concerned about the implementation and scope of this crackdown.

Why and who?

Unless you are a visa runner that has been doing exempt entries and now are trying to do it with tourist visa then yes you should be concerned.

[oneday]

And once again..

What defines a tourist ??

What is the difference between a temporary resident and a tourist ??

How many is too many.. Too long.. Too much..

All vague unclear and undefined.. Once again Thailand simply cannot write clear and firm rules or guidelines.

“A visa is not a guarantee that you can enter the country, that decision is made by the immigration officer at border check-point. It’s the same with every country around the world.". That's an excuse and not the answer. Most countries also have better coordination between their border check-points and embassies/consulates.

That's pretty much what I was going to say LivinLOS. Thailand needs to do a much better job of writing clear guidelines that both the immigration border police can follow as well as the Thai consulates and embassies so people are not wasting their time and money traveling to Thailand only to be turned back. This is nothing, but a chaotic mess with the border police and consulates not being on the same page.

[ubonjoe]

I have removed some off topic and defamatory posts plus replies to them.

[Sayonarax]

A Consul-General in Australia confirmed that he has also not received any information from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs regarding the crackdown.

I find this comment hard to believe after recently visiting a consulate. They seemed pretty aware of the current crack down..

[ubonjoe]

A Consul-General in Australia confirmed that he has also not received any information from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs regarding the crackdown.

I find this comment hard to believe after recently visiting a consulate. They seemed pretty aware of the current crack down..

For visa exempt entries yes. Turning people away with tourist visaa I doubt it very much.

[ingvar]

Was there not a report some years ago about a foreigner that could stay in Thailand indefinitely because he was officially (at the local abataa me thinks) adopted by a Thai Woman/Family (presumably his girlfriend), just a thought for those who want to stay in Thailand and do not want to worry about the visa thing?

[ubonjoe]

Was there not a report some years ago about a foreigner that could stay in Thailand indefinitely because he was officially (at the local abataa me thinks) adopted by a Thai Woman/Family (presumably his girlfriend), just a thought for those who want to stay in Thailand and do not want to worry about the visa thing?

That would not be possible. I am sure that was one of the silly rumors that go around.

[onionluke]

Hong Kong Royal Thai Consulate 16-7-2014 .

I went to the Hong Kong Royal Thai Consulate on wednesday to inquire about applying for a visa to visit Thailand from the 9th to the 17th august .

The woman at the enquieries desk leafed through my passport and then called her superior who also checked every page .

I was then told I need not apply for a visa as long as I had a return flight to HK.

I did not recieve a reply or comment when I mentioned I had heard of possible changes to the regulations .

I am married to a Thai ,my UK passport is two years old with visa exempt entries for february 2013 and august 2013 , each not more than 3 weeks per visit .

My previous passport has a series of visa exempt visits , Non O single and multiple visas. and a 60 day extension from Phibun immigration ofice.

I will be travelling on my own HK-BK and will carry copies of all our flight tickets-Thai Air , marriage certificate , son's birth certificate, wife's blue book and will state visiting family on the arrival form and list my wife's address up country as my accomodation .

Still , I am worried .

edit - 60 day extension added

Edited July 18, 2014 by onionluke

[razer]

I think they are targeting the visa runners who abuse the system to stay here. If someone is working without a work permit and using visa runs to stay in country, it is highly unlikely they will have the time or money to fly to Europe to get a new visa.

[Oziex1]

I think the short answer to many of our posts, if you have many back to back exemptions or tourist visas or you are from the target group of nationalities or if they don't like the look of you, proceed no further!

Have we got the message now or are we going to continue with our wingy whiney nonsense. It's a lottery it's in the hands of the individual immigration official, it's not good it may not be right I don't care for it the way it is, but for now this is what we have.

Look forward to something clearer, could be waiting some time!

As for the OP, Aus consulate in Perth new nothing of this stuff 6 weeks ago.

[mdmayes]

Seems as if chaos is the order of the day.

What you call chaos I call Thainess.

[billmunday10]

Personally I think nothing will change even after the deadline

This was confirmed when yesterday I got my girlfriend to call head of immigration in ranong as my visa will be expired at the end of the month.

He explained that you are allowed 3 back to back visas but are usually allowed more if you explain your case to the official at the border

[rebelplatoon]

Typical case of: "The left hand doesn't know, what the right hand is doing".

Yes, people can always be denied entry, even WITH a proper Visa. But there should be clear reasons for it.

Like I said before: It will make tourists, who intend to stay longer than 30 days and might need to travel in and out

to visit other attraction, NOT in Thailand, very uncertain.

So, TAT says they will get Tourism back on track and the FM makes sure it will be harder to do so.

[fxe1200]

There are visas for all purposes for Thailand, which can be obtained at the Thai embassy in your home country. Get the right one, which suits your needs. I have not been to a country yet, where the abuse of a visa is being accepted. If you cannot apply for a retirement visa yet, there is the elite card valid for five years with a fee of less than 200 Euro per month, though to be paid in advance.

http://www.thailandelite.com/glimpse.php

[ubonjoe]

Personally I think nothing will change even after the deadline

This was confirmed when yesterday I got my girlfriend to call head of immigration in ranong as my visa will be expired at the end of the month.

He explained that you are allowed 3 back to back visas but are usually allowed more if you explain your case to the official at the border

What visas would that be? Visa are not done at border crossings or do you mean getting a visa exempt entry.

You need to read the reports about the crossings in Ranong they are not letting anybody across that has one exempt entry before. Even some with valid visas have been turned away.