Visa for Real (Long stay) Tourists...

[Maroon Watcher]

...with all the furore about Tourist Visas.

Can someone give me the latest infomation for Long stay tourists - Back-packers, adventure tourists, Gap-year etc.

How do they stay in/tour Thailand - IF they don't want/ have the expense, of Exit and return?

So that I can pass on the information to help them!

Edited July 19, 2014 by Maroon Watcher

[CharlieH]

Moving to Visa forum

Moved.

[ubonjoe]

Tourist visas are still a viable option for a legitimate tourist. Along with limited visa exempt entries.

Visa exempt entries that some people incorrectly call tourist visas is what the recent "crackdown" is all about.

Their have been reports of some people with tourist visas being turned away at southern border crossings but they had a mixture of exempt entries and tourist visas.

It may mean leaving for a bit between tourist visa entries but at the moment their is no clear indication from immigration on what the restriction may be for them.

For those wanting to be here long stay and have the money the five year Elite visa that costs 500k baht would be a good option.

[Sortapundit]

... but at the moment their is no clear indication from immigration on what the restriction may be for them.

For those wanting to be here long stay and have the money the five year Elite visa that costs 500k baht would be a good option.

The moment they give a clear indication is the moment I'll relax. Whatever the answer is, whether long term genuine (i.e. non-working) tourists will be limited to a single entry, a double entry or entirely unaffected by the crackdown, I'll be happy with any clear answer that allows me to make plans for the future. The best case scenario for me would be if it was announced that long term tourists could continue to visit for as long as they please on tourist visas, provided they can prove that they can support themselves on money that comes in from overseas.

As for the Elite card, it would be nice to have one but the cost is far, far beyond prohibitive for the average person. For my partner and I to continue our six months per year stays in Thailand on the Elite card we'd have to pay $31,000 for five stress-free years of visas. That would wipe out my savings are force me to return to work, which is exactly what I'd like to avoid

[JLCrab]

Well that's the conundrum I guess in that the money that comes from overseas for the indefinite long term tourist could have been earned while working illicitly in Thailand.

[impulse]

The moment they give a clear indication is the moment I'll relax. Whatever the answer is, whether long term genuine (i.e. non-working) tourists will be limited to a single entry, a double entry or entirely unaffected by the crackdown

If you are a "long stay tourist" staying over 180 days in country in a calendar year, that seems to classify you as a "resident" for tax purposes. That means any money you bring into Thailand seems to be taxable, whether you work in Thailand or not.

I can see a problem of fairness (and revenue) making it clearer and easier for people to stay longer than 180 days, yet not classify them as residents and tax the money they bring in to the country.

If you're a "tourist" by the tax definition, staying less than 180 days, all you're taxed on is the money you've made in Thailand, which of course, is zero- since you can't work as a genuine tourist. So it seems that there is a problem defining anyone staying over 180 days a year as a tourist, even if they are non-working.

(For the over 50 retirement crowd, pension benefits earned in previous years don't seem to fit into the 8 classifications of taxable income listed below- whew. And for the 28/28 oilfield people, just a few of their days off spent outside Thailand will keep them in the non-resident category.)

1.Taxable Person

Taxpayers are classified into “resident” and “non-resident”. “Resident” means any person residing in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating more than 180 days in any tax (calendar) year. A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand. A non-resident is, however, subject to tax only on income from sources in Thailand.

2.TAX BASE

2.1 Assessable Income

Assessable income is divided into 8 categories as follows :

-income from personal services rendered to employers;

-income by virtue of jobs, positions or services rendered;

-income from goodwill, copyright, franchise, other rights, annuity or income in the nature of yearly payments derived from a will or any other juristic Act or judgment of the Court;

-income in the nature of dividends, interest on deposits with banks in Thailand, shares of profits or other benefits from a juristic company, juristic partnership, or mutual fund, payments received as a result of the reduction of capital, a bonus, an increased capital holdings, gains from amalgamation, acquisition or dissolution of juristic companies or partnerships, and gains from transferring of shares or partnership holdings;

-income from letting of property and from breaches of contracts, installment sales or hire-purchase contracts;

-income from liberal professions;

-income from construction and other contracts of work;

-income from business, commerce, agriculture, industry, transport or any other activity not specified earlier.

Source:http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

Edited July 19, 2014 by impulse

[LivinLOS]

If you are a "long stay tourist" staying over 180 days in country in a calendar year, that seems to classify you as a "resident" for tax purposes. That means any money you bring into Thailand seems to be taxable, whether you work in Thailand or not.

It's always been stated that your only liable for taxation on money you remit or earn if it's money earnt within that year.. If you live off money you earns the previous year, leaving this years money in the bank, it's tax free.

Of course if you mix all your assets into one account how do you define which dollar in the account was the one you earnt this year v the one you earnt last year... Seems another ridiculous law to me.

Edited July 19, 2014 by LivinLOS

[impulse]

Seems another ridiculous law to me.

You won't get any arguments from me there.

[lovetotravel]

I don't think the laws are changing, just the enforcement of them. This describes the tourist visa quite well:

http://www.thaivisa.com/tourist-visa.html

If you want to be in Thailand for really extended periods of time, this is not the visa for you. If you can't quality for the type of visa that allows for extended periods of time, you'll have to leave the country. Same with me when I want to visit the EU. 90 days in, 90 days out.

Perhaps the days of bumming around Thailand for a year or two are gone???? I'm lucky I did that years ago and never had a problem.

[LivinLOS]

I don't think the laws are changing, just the enforcement of them. This describes the tourist visa quite well:

http://www.thaivisa.com/tourist-visa.html

If you want to be in Thailand for really extended periods of time, this is not the visa for you. If you can't quality for the type of visa that allows for extended periods of time, you'll have to leave the country. Same with me when I want to visit the EU. 90 days in, 90 days out.

Perhaps the days of bumming around Thailand for a year or two are gone???? I'm lucky I did that years ago and never had a problem.

It may define the tourist visa but it does not define tourism purposes.. That could just as easily apply to the last 15 years of my life..

Saying a tourist is someone who comes for the purpose of tourism is nearly as vague as their work is to "engage in work"... Etc etc.. Once you include the term you are defining in the definition you clearly need to do a refresher at logic 101.

[JLCrab]

Legal definitions are often purposely left vague so they are subject to the interpretation of the 'competent official'.

[LivinLOS]

Legal definitions are often purposely left vague so they are subject to the interpretation of the 'competent official'.

Would that be a 100b interpretation or is it 500b minimum for an interpretation these days ??

[Maroon Watcher]

So for a minimum cost stay - They can come in, transport around/chill in Thilaland for 6 months,

then visit, say Cambodia/Vietnam for 4/5 days, then come back for 180 days?

[Sortapundit]

The moment they give a clear indication is the moment I'll relax. Whatever the answer is, whether long term genuine (i.e. non-working) tourists will be limited to a single entry, a double entry or entirely unaffected by the crackdown

If you are a "long stay tourist" staying over 180 days in country in a calendar year, that seems to classify you as a "resident" for tax purposes. That means any money you bring into Thailand seems to be taxable, whether you work in Thailand or not.

I can see a problem of fairness (and revenue) making it clearer and easier for people to stay longer than 180 days, yet not classify them as residents and tax the money they bring in to the country.

If you're a "tourist" by the tax definition, staying less than 180 days, all you're taxed on is the money you've made in Thailand, which of course, is zero- since you can't work as a genuine tourist. So it seems that there is a problem defining anyone staying over 180 days a year as a tourist, even if they are non-working.

Yep, tax law is another thing that needs to be updated to reflect current realities. Digital nomads have been debating the tax implications of long term travel for a few years now, and there are no easy answers. For an example of the complexity, in 2012 I stayed in Thailand around 220 days. I earned my money through Amazon US, was paid through Amazon Luxembourg and was, at the time, subject to 30% withholding by the IRS because I had yet to file a W8-BEN in the States. I'm not sure if there is a double taxation agreement between Thailand and the US, but any attempt to pay Thai taxes for that period would no doubt be a costly nightmare that would have left me massively overpaying.

In 2011 and 2013, however, I didn't spend enough time in any one country to qualify as resident for tax purposes, and it becomes even more complex when you consider the fact that my income comes in the form of royalties for works created several years ago (so the actual work that generated the income took place in more than a dozen countries over a number of years). Since 2011 I've spent a grand total or around 10 days in the UK, but to keep things simple I pay my taxes there. I could probably get away with paying no taxes at all to anyone, but it might come back and bite me on the ass years from now.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Sortapundit

[Thaddeus]

So for a minimum cost stay - They can come in, transport around/chill in Thilaland for 6 months,

then visit, say Cambodia/Vietnam for 4/5 days, then come back for 180 days?

In theory yes, with the right Visas.

But it is too early to tell, and Thailand does have a history of moving goal posts.

[lovetotravel]

I don't think the laws are changing, just the enforcement of them. This describes the tourist visa quite well:

http://www.thaivisa.com/tourist-visa.html

If you want to be in Thailand for really extended periods of time, this is not the visa for you. If you can't quality for the type of visa that allows for extended periods of time, you'll have to leave the country. Same with me when I want to visit the EU. 90 days in, 90 days out.

Perhaps the days of bumming around Thailand for a year or two are gone???? I'm lucky I did that years ago and never had a problem.

It may define the tourist visa but it does not define tourism purposes.. That could just as easily apply to the last 15 years of my life..

Saying a tourist is someone who comes for the purpose of tourism is nearly as vague as their work is to "engage in work"... Etc etc.. Once you include the term you are defining in the definition you clearly need to do a refresher at logic 101.

But that's what Thai officials like. Vague rules that can be interpreted in a variety of ways. For maximum extraction of money!

They do define it, and the time lines are well established. Pretty easy to follow. I use to do border runs every 30 days also for years. But understood it was really a violation of the laws.

A tourist visa will be issued to applicants wishing to enter the Kingdom for tourism purposes. You are not allowed to work or conduct business with a tourist visa.

=======================

A tourist visa can be used to stay in Thailand for up to 30 days or up to 60 days and can be extended by 30 days at the nearest Immigration office. Normally there is a fee of 1,900 Baht (as per 2008-01-17) but until March 31st 2011 they are free.

[Maroon Watcher]

... so for someone (Back-Packer/Gap Year/Sabbatical...) who has never been to Thailand or needs an update...

"Double entry" Tourist Visa for 60 days, then extend TWICE at THB 1900 each -

Then leave the country for 4/5 days (Stay in a Hotel/visit sites)

Get a New Double Entry and two more 30 day Visas -

Then GO HOME....?

[impulse]

... so for someone (Back-Packer/Gap Year/Sabbatical...) who has never been to Thailand or needs an update...

"Double entry" Tourist Visa for 60 days, then extend TWICE at THB 1900 each -

Then leave the country for 4/5 days (Stay in a Hotel/visit sites)

Get a New Double Entry and two more 30 day Visas -

Then GO HOME....?

Or do what tourists have done for generations...enjoy traveling around the rest of Southeast Asia, up to the limit of their tourist visas. And by that time, you can freely come back to Thailand and visit some more.

Not hard to see how a tourist can stay away from home for years that way- all perfectly legally without ever sweating bullets at any border.

Edited July 19, 2014 by impulse

[JDGRUEN]

"Visa for Real (Long stay) Tourists" Hmmmm? where did the extended discussion of taxes come in to that OP title heading ... ?

[impulse]

"Visa for Real (Long stay) Tourists" Hmmmm? where did the extended discussion of taxes come in to that OP title heading ... ?

Because, for tax purposes, staying in Thailand over 180 days per year defines you as a resident, not a tourist. So, effectively, there is no such thing as a "Real Long Stay Tourist".

[slipperylobster]

I bet Thailand made up their own idea of what a tourist is.

Here is what the World Tourist Organization says...

"traveling to and staying in places outside their usual environment for not more than one consecutive year for leisure, business and other purposes"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism

So..you see, long stayers can be tourists up to a year....according to everyone else, except Thailand. Notice that the above mentions leisure, business and other purposes.

Edited July 19, 2014 by slipperylobster

[ScottMallon]

I don't think the laws are changing, just the enforcement of them. This describes the tourist visa quite well:

http://www.thaivisa.com/tourist-visa.html

If you want to be in Thailand for really extended periods of time, this is not the visa for you. If you can't quality for the type of visa that allows for extended periods of time, you'll have to leave the country. Same with me when I want to visit the EU. 90 days in, 90 days out.

Perhaps the days of bumming around Thailand for a year or two are gone???? I'm lucky I did that years ago and never had a problem.

A couple of days ago I met with several high ranking Thai Immigration Officials from Chaengwattana and Soi Suan Phlu at their request (to my surprise). One of the questions I asked was at what point do tourists become someone who is living in Thailand. How long can someone be a tourist before they are no longer really a tourist. They acknowledge this is a difficult question and they are mulling it over. I do plan on following up on this.

I just put up a video on YouTube and in ThaiVisa. It is the first of a series of videos on YouTube I'll be doing on our conversation. They have asked me to convey their information to the public. I can also ask any question of them I feel worthwhile.

Their recommendation is to do what has always been required but rarely asked for:

1. Return ticket.

2. Cash

3. Proof of accommodation

4. A detailed itinerary.

They also admitted that for now, there are going to problems for those with tourist visas simply because some checkpoints are unaware of some of the new/old guidelines and how strictly to enforce them. They are working on setting standards that can and will be followed by immigration officials at the checkpoints. They made it a point to let people know that the people they are after are those abusing the visa exemption system. They are not out to deny those with tourist visas.

The extension of visa exemptions is going to go from 7 days to 30 days.

[LivinLOS]

I don't think the laws are changing, just the enforcement of them. This describes the tourist visa quite well:

http://www.thaivisa.com/tourist-visa.html

If you want to be in Thailand for really extended periods of time, this is not the visa for you. If you can't quality for the type of visa that allows for extended periods of time, you'll have to leave the country. Same with me when I want to visit the EU. 90 days in, 90 days out.

Perhaps the days of bumming around Thailand for a year or two are gone???? I'm lucky I did that years ago and never had a problem.

A couple of days ago I met with several high ranking Thai Immigration Officials from Chaengwattana and Soi Suan Phlu at their request (to my surprise). One of the questions I asked was at what point do tourists become someone who is living in Thailand. How long can someone be a tourist before they are no longer really a tourist. They acknowledge this is a difficult question and they are mulling it over. I do plan on following up on this.

I just put up a video on

and in ThaiVisa. It is the first of a series of videos on

I'll be doing on our conversation. They have asked me to convey their information to the public. I can also ask any question of them I feel worthwhile.

Their recommendation is to do what has always been required but rarely asked for:

1. Return ticket.

2. Cash

3. Proof of accommodation

4. A detailed itinerary.

They also admitted that for now, there are going to problems for those with tourist visas simply because some checkpoints are unaware of some of the new/old guidelines and how strictly to enforce them. They are working on setting standards that can and will be followed by immigration officials at the checkpoints. They made it a point to let people know that the people they are after are those abusing the visa exemption system. They are not out to deny those with tourist visas.

The extension of visa exemptions is going to go from 7 days to 30 days.

And what is your position here in Thailand that puts you in the spotlight to be asked to consult on this ??

It would seem to me, that all that is needed here, is strict, clear, definitions.. How much time outside of Thailand resets the counter, prof this isn't a time definition, what spending or other levels they feel they wish to demand.

The issue here is not one of what does or does not define a tourist.. The issue is what do 'they' wish to define for each entry class that is there. Define it and stick to it.. Using vague terms like for the purposes of tourism, does no one any favors. Set the terms, make it very well known, and force each immigration point to use the same ones.

[Maroon Watcher]

OK to help you answer the nice people of Thailand... from real experience (& listening):

Long sataying visitors (Not just short-term tourists...) want:

To arrive, Possibly on a single/flexible return, or "Open" ticket.

Or in a Thai way... A single ticket. and maybe NO booked accomodation

(I did this in Laos - I forgot the legal need for, at least the 1st nights accommodation -
why because the school was... er... not thinking either,,,)

Anyway, the Long term people dont want/need a schedule/itinerary...

(This is the idea of a long term Thailand visit?)

So perhaps a rule (For the benefit of the visitors/family/police) could be:

Proof of Return Ticket OR Credit Card (Expiry date being more than Visa/s)

Or proof of money in their account. (Debit/International ATM)

Proof of 1st nights stay/accommodation address (Or at least area of destination, i.e Khao San Road or Samui?)

with advice to inform the hotel of forward destination (Like sailing...)

Back packers etc may not be the perfect "Quality tourist"... but one day they maybe,

and whilst they are here, they help the low income providers to grow too...

Good people come to Thailand to learn, grow, be happy and yes, spend money.

they don't come to Thailand for greed

It's the Bad guys that need to be ring fenced

Please remember that it is very expensive, just to arrive in Thailand, and to welcome all honest, hard working, visitors -

Not "Once in a Lifetime" but to return as friends (There is plenty of competition closer to 'home')

The USP of Thailand is the relaxed/easy going nature of the people, along with low prices/food and weather...

(And the bottom line is, treat them as guests now and they will then return, with friends, with husband/wifes and children...)

I don't think the laws are changing, just the enforcement of them. This describes the tourist visa quite well:

http://www.thaivisa.com/tourist-visa.html

If you want to be in Thailand for really extended periods of time, this is not the visa for you. If you can't quality for the type of visa that allows for extended periods of time, you'll have to leave the country. Same with me when I want to visit the EU. 90 days in, 90 days out.

Perhaps the days of bumming around Thailand for a year or two are gone???? I'm lucky I did that years ago and never had a problem.

A couple of days ago I met with several high ranking Thai Immigration Officials from Chaengwattana and Soi Suan Phlu at their request (to my surprise). One of the questions I asked was at what point do tourists become someone who is living in Thailand. How long can someone be a tourist before they are no longer really a tourist. They acknowledge this is a difficult question and they are mulling it over. I do plan on following up on this.

I just put up a video on

and in ThaiVisa. It is the first of a series of videos on

I'll be doing on our conversation. They have asked me to convey their information to the public. I can also ask any question of them I feel worthwhile.

Their recommendation is to do what has always been required but rarely asked for:

1. Return ticket.
2. Cash
3. Proof of accommodation
4. A detailed itinerary.

They also admitted that for now, there are going to problems for those with tourist visas simply because some checkpoints are unaware of some of the new/old guidelines and how strictly to enforce them. They are working on setting standards that can and will be followed by immigration officials at the checkpoints. They made it a point to let people know that the people they are after are those abusing the visa exemption system. They are not out to deny those with tourist visas.

The extension of visa exemptions is going to go from 7 days to 30 days.

[JLCrab]

I bet Thailand made up their own idea of what a tourist is.

Here is what the World Tourist Organization says...

"traveling to and staying in places outside their usual environment for not more than one consecutive year for leisure, business and other purposes"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism

So..you see, long stayers can be tourists up to a year....according to everyone else, except Thailand. Notice that the above mentions leisure, business and other purposes.

Note that it uses the word 'places' as in plural -- not stay in one place outside, etc.

[Maroon Watcher]

... so a tourist could be - visiting friends/family, having a break, visiting a hospital "for other reasons", and for looking for property,

meeting business contacts - who are not partners, yet...

Let them be "innocent, until found guilty"

After that - if they are currupt, dangerous or actually gulity (Worldwide)

DEPORT/REFUSE

I bet Thailand made up their own idea of what a tourist is.

Here is what the World Tourist Organization says...

"traveling to and staying in places outside their usual environment for not more than one consecutive year for leisure, business and other purposes"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism

So..you see, long stayers can be tourists up to a year....according to everyone else, except Thailand. Notice that the above mentions leisure, business and other purposes.

Note that it uses the word 'places' as in plural -- not stay in one place outside, etc.

[riclag]

I for one can't retire here for another 4 years(65). I usually come on Triples I don't work here.I stay at the GF's Apt.and travel around Thailand as much as feasible while trying to pinpoint my ideal retirement spot. I'm from the states so I come in the winter months September-May .I go back for 4 months and repeat,I'm just under the 180 per calender year.I'm confident that the Thai Immigration is mainly out for the visa exempt violators and illegal workers .I also think they will be implementing more requirements(proof of finaces and Itinerary) for long stay tourists visa's .My feelings about.this Elite Visa is not a option(500k) for me and most people I suppose if they dropped it down to 250K it would be reasonable

I like your post on finality .

The moment they give a clear indication is the moment I'll relax. Whatever the answer is, whether long term genuine (i.e. non-working) tourists will be limited to a single entry, a double entry or entirely unaffected by the crackdown

If you are a "long stay tourist" staying over 180 days in country in a calendar year, that seems to classify you as a "resident" for tax purposes. That means any money you bring into Thailand seems to be taxable, whether you work in Thailand or not.

I can see a problem of fairness (and revenue) making it clearer and easier for people to stay longer than 180 days, yet not classify them as residents and tax the money they bring in to the country.

If you're a "tourist" by the tax definition, staying less than 180 days, all you're taxed on is the money you've made in Thailand, which of course, is zero- since you can't work as a genuine tourist. So it seems that there is a problem defining anyone staying over 180 days a year as a tourist, even if they are non-working.

(For the over 50 retirement crowd, pension benefits earned in previous years don't seem to fit into the 8 classifications of taxable income listed below- whew. And for the 28/28 oilfield people, just a few of their days off spent outside Thailand will keep them in the non-resident category.)

1.Taxable Person

Taxpayers are classified into “resident” and “non-resident”. “Resident” means any person residing in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating more than 180 days in any tax (calendar) year. A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand. A non-resident is, however, subject to tax only on income from sources in Thailand.

2.TAX BASE

2.1 Assessable Income

Assessable income is divided into 8 categories as follows :

-income from personal services rendered to employers;

-income by virtue of jobs, positions or services rendered;

-income from goodwill, copyright, franchise, other rights, annuity or income in the nature of yearly payments derived from a will or any other juristic Act or judgment of the Court;

-income in the nature of dividends, interest on deposits with banks in Thailand, shares of profits or other benefits from a juristic company, juristic partnership, or mutual fund, payments received as a result of the reduction of capital, a bonus, an increased capital holdings, gains from amalgamation, acquisition or dissolution of juristic companies or partnerships, and gains from transferring of shares or partnership holdings;

-income from letting of property and from breaches of contracts, installment sales or hire-purchase contracts;

-income from liberal professions;

-income from construction and other contracts of work;

-income from business, commerce, agriculture, industry, transport or any other activity not specified earlier.

Source:http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

[ScottMallon]

I for one can't retire here for another 4 years(65). I usually come on Triples I don't work here.I stay at the GF's Apt.and travel around Thailand as much as feasible while trying to pinpoint my ideal retirement spot. I'm from the states so I come in the winter months September-May .I go back for 4 months and repeat,I'm just under the 180 per calender year.I'm confident that the Thai Immigration is mainly out for the visa exempt violators and illegal workers .I also think they will be implementing more requirements(proof of finaces and Itinerary) for long stay tourists visa's .My feelings about.this Elite Visa is not a option(500k) for me and most people I suppose if they dropped it down to 250K it would be reasonable

I like your post on finality .

The moment they give a clear indication is the moment I'll relax. Whatever the answer is, whether long term genuine (i.e. non-working) tourists will be limited to a single entry, a double entry or entirely unaffected by the crackdown

If you are a "long stay tourist" staying over 180 days in country in a calendar year, that seems to classify you as a "resident" for tax purposes. That means any money you bring into Thailand seems to be taxable, whether you work in Thailand or not.

I can see a problem of fairness (and revenue) making it clearer and easier for people to stay longer than 180 days, yet not classify them as residents and tax the money they bring in to the country.

If you're a "tourist" by the tax definition, staying less than 180 days, all you're taxed on is the money you've made in Thailand, which of course, is zero- since you can't work as a genuine tourist. So it seems that there is a problem defining anyone staying over 180 days a year as a tourist, even if they are non-working.

(For the over 50 retirement crowd, pension benefits earned in previous years don't seem to fit into the 8 classifications of taxable income listed below- whew. And for the 28/28 oilfield people, just a few of their days off spent outside Thailand will keep them in the non-resident category.)

1.Taxable Person

Taxpayers are classified into “resident” and “non-resident”. “Resident” means any person residing in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating more than 180 days in any tax (calendar) year. A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand. A non-resident is, however, subject to tax only on income from sources in Thailand.

2.TAX BASE

2.1 Assessable Income

Assessable income is divided into 8 categories as follows :

-income from personal services rendered to employers;

-income by virtue of jobs, positions or services rendered;

-income from goodwill, copyright, franchise, other rights, annuity or income in the nature of yearly payments derived from a will or any other juristic Act or judgment of the Court;

-income in the nature of dividends, interest on deposits with banks in Thailand, shares of profits or other benefits from a juristic company, juristic partnership, or mutual fund, payments received as a result of the reduction of capital, a bonus, an increased capital holdings, gains from amalgamation, acquisition or dissolution of juristic companies or partnerships, and gains from transferring of shares or partnership holdings;

-income from letting of property and from breaches of contracts, installment sales or hire-purchase contracts;

-income from liberal professions;

-income from construction and other contracts of work;

-income from business, commerce, agriculture, industry, transport or any other activity not specified earlier.

Source:http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

You are correct—they are not out to stop people with tourist visas, they're out to stop those abusing the visa exemptions. If and when their standards actually become standards the checkpoints adhere to, there shouldn't be dozens holding tourist visas turned away at the border. That would be a major step in the right direction if this actually happens. If you have an outbound ticket (like it or not), cash, proof of accommodation, and an itinerary you should be fine. This is what Immigration said to me.

If anyone has a problem with this, dunno what to tell you.

One thing I find strange is no one seems to care about the visa exemption extension being lengthened from 7 to 30 days. I guess everyone wants to live here but no one wants to come for 60 days.

[AYJAYDEE]

I for one can't retire here for another 4 years(65). I usually come on Triples I don't work here.I stay at the GF's Apt.and travel around Thailand as much as feasible while trying to pinpoint my ideal retirement spot. I'm from the states so I come in the winter months September-May .I go back for 4 months and repeat,I'm just under the 180 per calender year.I'm confident that the Thai Immigration is mainly out for the visa exempt violators and illegal workers .I also think they will be implementing more requirements(proof of finaces and Itinerary) for long stay tourists visa's .My feelings about.this Elite Visa is not a option(500k) for me and most people I suppose if they dropped it down to 250K it would be reasonable

I like your post on finality .

The moment they give a clear indication is the moment I'll relax. Whatever the answer is, whether long term genuine (i.e. non-working) tourists will be limited to a single entry, a double entry or entirely unaffected by the crackdown

If you are a "long stay tourist" staying over 180 days in country in a calendar year, that seems to classify you as a "resident" for tax purposes. That means any money you bring into Thailand seems to be taxable, whether you work in Thailand or not.

I can see a problem of fairness (and revenue) making it clearer and easier for people to stay longer than 180 days, yet not classify them as residents and tax the money they bring in to the country.

If you're a "tourist" by the tax definition, staying less than 180 days, all you're taxed on is the money you've made in Thailand, which of course, is zero- since you can't work as a genuine tourist. So it seems that there is a problem defining anyone staying over 180 days a year as a tourist, even if they are non-working.

(For the over 50 retirement crowd, pension benefits earned in previous years don't seem to fit into the 8 classifications of taxable income listed below- whew. And for the 28/28 oilfield people, just a few of their days off spent outside Thailand will keep them in the non-resident category.)

1.Taxable Person

Taxpayers are classified into “resident” and “non-resident”. “Resident” means any person residing in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating more than 180 days in any tax (calendar) year. A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand. A non-resident is, however, subject to tax only on income from sources in Thailand.

2.TAX BASE

2.1 Assessable Income

Assessable income is divided into 8 categories as follows :

-income from personal services rendered to employers;

-income by virtue of jobs, positions or services rendered;

-income from goodwill, copyright, franchise, other rights, annuity or income in the nature of yearly payments derived from a will or any other juristic Act or judgment of the Court;

-income in the nature of dividends, interest on deposits with banks in Thailand, shares of profits or other benefits from a juristic company, juristic partnership, or mutual fund, payments received as a result of the reduction of capital, a bonus, an increased capital holdings, gains from amalgamation, acquisition or dissolution of juristic companies or partnerships, and gains from transferring of shares or partnership holdings;

-income from letting of property and from breaches of contracts, installment sales or hire-purchase contracts;

-income from liberal professions;

-income from construction and other contracts of work;

-income from business, commerce, agriculture, industry, transport or any other activity not specified earlier.

Source:http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

You are correct—they are not out to stop people with tourist visas, they're out to stop those abusing the visa exemptions. If and when their standards actually become standards the checkpoints adhere to, there shouldn't be dozens holding tourist visas turned away at the border. That would be a major step in the right direction if this actually happens. If you have an outbound ticket (like it or not), cash, proof of accommodation, and an itinerary you should be fine. This is what Immigration said to me.

If anyone has a problem with this, dunno what to tell you.

One thing I find strange is no one seems to care about the visa exemption extension being lengthened from 7 to 30 days. I guess everyone wants to live here but no one wants to come for 60 days.

do they count travellers cheques as cash? and as for the extensions, I doubt anyone trusts them anymore and will always pay the small fee for a tourist visa instead.

[LivinLOS]

I bet Thailand made up their own idea of what a tourist is.

Here is what the World Tourist Organization says...

"traveling to and staying in places outside their usual environment for not more than one consecutive year for leisure, business and other purposes"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism

So..you see, long stayers can be tourists up to a year....according to everyone else, except Thailand. Notice that the above mentions leisure, business and other purposes.

Note that it uses the word 'places' as in plural -- not stay in one place outside, etc.

Still vague.., I am resident and fixed here on long stay..

In the last 2 weeks I have been "home" for 3 nights... The rest traveling in hotels, hanging out and having fun.. In another week I have nearly 3 weeks away scheduled.. All around Thailand..

Does that make me a tourist ? IMO no.. That's just the lifestyle of living here retired without kids..