Thousands march for Gaza in London, clashes in Paris over Israeli onslaught

[Jingthing]

Turkey sending supplies to Gaza?

 

I wonder if they would ever allow Israelis to ship supplies to the Kurds after a major offensive by the Tyrkish army.

Talkin about triple standards.

Yes, their PM has revealed himself to be an extremist anti-semite. 

[JohnnyJazz]

There have been a number of those parades and no JDL. That was just one example. Sorry, but trying to pin all these anti-Semitic protests on THE JEWS - because of one possible incident - just does not wash. 

 

By the way, they are not "my words". They are the words of the professional news organization with a link underneath. You obviously did not read the articles as they do not mention the JDL as having any responsibility at all. 

 

The media first didn't mention the responsibility of the JDL because they didn't want to be accused of antisemitism, a number of journalists admitted it later. But then appeared on youtube videos clearly showing what happened that day, here is one of them. The nice people on the right of the screen who later hide behind the police are the thugs responsible for the violence that day and are also members of the jewish community.

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2bmyR3ACpk

[Asiantravel]

BBC HARDtalk Speaks to Israeli historian, Ilan Pappe Jun 30, 2014

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=4lsmFS75ed4

Edited July 31, 2014 by Asiantravel

[7by7]

Israel wants to punish the Palestinians for forming a government with a terrorist group that calls for their destruction as well as every other Jew. What a shocker that is. Actions have consequences. 

 

If Israel hadn't stolen Palestinian lands and forced Palestinians into overcrowded towns and refugee camps then maybe the Palestinians wouldn't have voted for Hamas.

Support for Hamas was waning before this current conflict; now it is increasing again. Hamas' best allies and most effective recruiters are the IDF and Israeli government!

Obviously Hamas firing rockets into Israel is wrong, but Israel's response is way to severe; 1422 Palestinians dead, most of them civilians, 58 Israelis dead and one Thai on the Israeli side; 56 of those Israeli soldiers.

Israel's response is obviously, inexcusably over the top when one looks at the threat Hamas' rockets actually posed to Israeli civilians.

 

[7by7]

 

It is worth noting that the Palestinian refugees are still confined to camps as other Arab countries find it expedient, for whatever reason, to not let them assimilate into their own countries.

 
It's true the oil rich nations have enough money to give the people of Gaza a fresh start in their respective countries.
But who in their right mind would bring evil and trouble to its own doorstep?
No, they are happy to fuel the fire of Hamas and let them make martyrs of women and children.
Distant slaughter by proxy is the rich Arab way.

 

 

So, if your homeland was invaded and you were forced out of your homes into a refugee camp in a foreign country you would simply shrug your shoulders and say 'Never mind, I'll take my family to live somewhere else!'

 

Good job that sort of thinking didn't exist in 1940!

[Morch]

 

Israel wants to punish the Palestinians for forming a government with a terrorist group that calls for their destruction as well as every other Jew. What a shocker that is. Actions have consequences. 

 

If Israel hadn't stolen Palestinian lands and forced Palestinians into overcrowded towns and refugee camps then maybe the Palestinians wouldn't have voted for Hamas.

Support for Hamas was waning before this current conflict; now it is increasing again. Hamas' best allies and most effective recruiters are the IDF and Israeli government!

Obviously Hamas firing rockets into Israel is wrong, but Israel's response is way to severe; 1422 Palestinians dead, most of them civilians, 58 Israelis dead and one Thai on the Israeli side; 56 of those Israeli soldiers.

Israel's response is obviously, inexcusably over the top when one looks at the threat Hamas' rockets actually posed to Israeli civilians.

 

 

 

If memory serves, growth of support for Hamas had more to do with PA corruption and inability to get anywhere with the peace negotiations. Support for Hamas was going down some recently - mostly due to economic factors. This occured in the past, and one Hamas tactic to deal with that is bringing out the old aggro vs. Israel - nothing serves better to divert attention and unite the people.

 

Casualty lists on the Israeli side are not as high as in Gaza Strip. That does not mean that there are no damages or that the Israeli civilians (especially at the south of Israel) are not running in and out of shelters quite often. They are lucky to have a country that places some importance on their protection and survival. Seeing the scope of Hamas underground construction projects, they could have provided ample protection for at least some of the Gazans. Same goes for telling civilians to disregard Israeli warnings about impeding attacks, and using densely populated residential areas and public building for military purposes.

 

What would constitute a proportional military response from Israel, in your opinion?

[Morch]

 

 

It is worth noting that the Palestinian refugees are still confined to camps as other Arab countries find it expedient, for whatever reason, to not let them assimilate into their own countries.

 
It's true the oil rich nations have enough money to give the people of Gaza a fresh start in their respective countries.
But who in their right mind would bring evil and trouble to its own doorstep?
No, they are happy to fuel the fire of Hamas and let them make martyrs of women and children.
Distant slaughter by proxy is the rich Arab way.

 

 

So, if your homeland was invaded and you were forced out of your homes into a refugee camp in a foreign country you would simply shrug your shoulders and say 'Never mind, I'll take my family to live somewhere else!'

 

Good job that sort of thinking didn't exist in 1940!

 

 

No, but there would come a time where reality would have to be faced, and rather than holding on to the dream of

turning back the clock, a leadership needs to do what is best for the interests of its people and salvage what they

can out of the mess. Being defeated and having to compromise is not how things were supposed to go, but such is

life.
 

[Ulysses G.]

 

There have been a number of those parades and no JDL. That was just one example. Sorry, but trying to pin all these anti-Semitic protests on THE JEWS - because of one possible incident - just does not wash. 
 
By the way, they are not "my words". They are the words of the professional news organization with a link underneath. You obviously did not read the articles as they do not mention the JDL as having any responsibility at all.

 
The media first didn't mention the responsibility of the JDL because they didn't want to be accused of antisemitism, a number of journalists admitted it later.

 

Please provide a credible source to back this up. There are a few posters that just make things up out of thin air or (conspiracy) theorize with the slimmest of evidence and I suspect that you are one of them.

 

Anyway. trying to pretend that all the anti-Semitic protests were the result of one incident is ridiculous. There were anti-Semitic protests in France and all over the world with neo-Nazis, radical Islamists and other anti-Semitic groups and no JDL for you to to blame it on.

 

The thin line between anti-Israel sentiment and outright anti-Semitism has been obliterated in demonstrations and acts of violence across the continent. “Death to Jews” and “Hitler was right!” slogans are prominent at these conclaves.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2014/07/31/european-anti-semitism-surges/

 

 

Despite the biggest spike in anti-Semitic incidents since 2009, the U.K. hasn't reached France’s hate levels, where demonstrators shout out 'Hamas! Hamas! Jews to the gas!' But for how long? 

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.608188

 

“Anti-semitic or xenophobic rhetoric and hostility have no place in our society,” Michael Roth, Harlem Desir and Sandro Gozi, the respective German, French and Italian ministers for Europe Affairs said in a joint declaration.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-07-31/eu-seeks-powers-to-fight-hate-as-gaza-draws-anti-semitic-protest.html

 

 

[JohnnyJazz]

Please provide a credible source to back this up. There are a few posters that just make things up out of thin air or (conspiracy) theorize with the slimmest of evidence and I suspect that you are one of them.

 

 

 

The problem is I already provided you with a number of evidence and each time you refused to answer them. Now  because you have nothing to say you decide to attack me directly. It's up to you, it won't solve the problem, actually it will just make it worse.

 

The equation anti zionism equals anti semitism is a self fulfilling prophecy. People can't accept what is done to the Palestinian people. It has nothing to do with anti semitism, it is just normal human feelings. But when the jewish community, actually a minority amongst the jewish community who terrorizes even their co religionists, keep on saying you have to accept these atrocities or you are anti semitic the only thing they achieve is to push more people to be antisemitic.

 

It is already happening all over the world and like or not you're an accomplice.

[Ulysses G.]

 

Please provide a credible source to back this up. There are a few posters that just make things up out of thin air or (conspiracy) theorize with the slimmest of evidence and I suspect that you are one of them.

 
The problem is I already provided you with a number of evidence and each time you refused to answer them.

 

You posted ONE article that said that the JDL caused a problem at ONE protest and tried to make it sound like they were responsible for every anti-Semitic protest in France. Your video "evidence" was simply a bunch of people fighting with no way to tell who they were or who caused the riot. 

I have "answered" your "evidence" over and over again and you keep pretending to have a valid point when the actual evidence suggests that you DON'T.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[dexterm]

 

 

 

<Egypt maintains pretty much the same blockade from its own side of the border>
I would imagine that the closure of the Egyptian border is part of the israeli/ Egyptian treaty.

์No. It isn't. Egypt could open it any time that they wanted to, but they have about as much use for Hamas as Israel does and are just as responsible for the blockade on goods going into Gaza. They consider Hamas terrorists that are fomenting violence in Egypt as well as Israel.

"Let Gaza burn with those in it," proclaimed Tawfik Okasha, a pro-military TV presenter known for his rabid anti-Islamist rhetoric. He praised Israel's leadership "You are men," he said for striking back against Hamas after the kidnapping and killing of three Israelis last month.
Another presenter, Amany el-Khayat, accused Hamas of trying to promote its "resistance" image by letting Gazan civilians die, saying the group seeks to "wash its face ... with Palestinians' blood."
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/07/24/facing-calls-to-open-gaza-border-egypt-takes-tough-line-in-rivalry-with-hamas/

 

Interesting.

However, the tunnels from Egypt can only operate with Egyptian complicity. It will be informative to see if Sissi shuts them down.

 

It is worth noting that the Palestinian refugees are still confined to camps as other Arab countries find it expedient, for whatever reason, to not let them assimilate into their own countries.

 

 

It's true the oil rich nations have enough money to give the people of Gaza a fresh start in their respective countries.

But who in their right mind would bring evil and trouble to its own doorstep?

No, they are happy to fuel the fire of Hamas and let them make martyrs of women and children.

Distant slaughter by proxy is the rich Arab way.

 

 

Why should other Arab countries absorb Palestinian refugees when they still have the keys to their homes in Israel, if only Israel would adhere to the Geneva Convention and UN Charter, that allows refugees to return to their homes when the hostilities abate.

 

Israel's should face up to its responsibilities as an occupying force.

Edited August 1, 2014 by dexterm

[Ulysses G.]

Why should other Arab countries absorb Palestinian refugees

Because they drove thousands of Jews out of their homes in their countries - that had to flee to Israel with only the clothes on their backs. If Arabs have the "right to return", then Jews should too as well as compensation for all their stolen property, but neither one is going to happen.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[dexterm]

 

Why should other Arab countries absorb Palestinian refugees

Because they drove thousands of Jews out of their homes in their countries - that had to flee to Israel with only the clothes on their backs. If Arabs have the "right to return", then Jews should too as well as compensation for all their stolen property, but neither one is going to happen.

 

 

You're getting your timeline of events confused again.

Edited August 1, 2014 by dexterm

[7by7]

 

 

 

It is worth noting that the Palestinian refugees are still confined to camps as other Arab countries find it expedient, for whatever reason, to not let them assimilate into their own countries.

 
It's true the oil rich nations have enough money to give the people of Gaza a fresh start in their respective countries.
But who in their right mind would bring evil and trouble to its own doorstep?
No, they are happy to fuel the fire of Hamas and let them make martyrs of women and children.
Distant slaughter by proxy is the rich Arab way.

 

 

So, if your homeland was invaded and you were forced out of your homes into a refugee camp in a foreign country you would simply shrug your shoulders and say 'Never mind, I'll take my family to live somewhere else!'

 

Good job that sort of thinking didn't exist in 1940!

 

 

No, but there would come a time where reality would have to be faced, and rather than holding on to the dream of

turning back the clock, a leadership needs to do what is best for the interests of its people and salvage what they

can out of the mess. Being defeated and having to compromise is not how things were supposed to go, but such is

life.
 

 

When would that time be?

 

What is now Israel was part of non Jewish states for roughly 2000 years before 1948. Using your argument, the state of Israel should not exist!

 

(How long before someone quotes just the last phrase as 'proof' that is my opinion?)

[Steely Dan]

WHO has said today that essential drugs in Gaza are at zero or near zero.
This means drugs for mums and bubs, not wounded soldiers.
Israel will not allow these drugs entry into Gaza. In fact, they have destroyed 23 medical facilities that were involved in providing care to civilians during the current invasion.
 
Yet more reasons to launch an inquiry into Crimes Against Humanity  - with or without Israeli participation.

Aside from all the fibs that Morch has already de-bunked the Palestinian authority actually turned away medicine donated by Israel twice in one week. Perhaps they should themselves be investigated for crimes,against humanity for putting propaganda ahead of the lives of their own people.

http://www.inquisitr.com/1378231/palestinian-authority-refused-medical-aid-donated-by-israel-twice-in-one-week/#utm_source=website&utm_campaign=wpbirdnest&utm_medium=web


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[simple1]

 

WHO has said today that essential drugs in Gaza are at zero or near zero.
This means drugs for mums and bubs, not wounded soldiers.
Israel will not allow these drugs entry into Gaza. In fact, they have destroyed 23 medical facilities that were involved in providing care to civilians during the current invasion.
 
Yet more reasons to launch an inquiry into Crimes Against Humanity  - with or without Israeli participation.

Aside from all the fibs that Morch has already de-bunked the Palestinian authority actually turned away medicine donated by Israel twice in one week. Perhaps they should themselves be investigated for crimes,against humanity for putting propaganda ahead of the lives of their own people.

http://www.inquisitr.com/1378231/palestinian-authority-refused-medical-aid-donated-by-israel-twice-in-one-week/#utm_source=website&utm_campaign=wpbirdnest&utm_medium=web


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Both Turkey & WHO have managed to deliver some medical supplies into Gaza in the past few days. Great shame for Hamas to block Israeli supplies, guess an extension of the propaganda wars by Hamas.

 

http://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/essential-medical-supplies-arrive-gaza

 

http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/turkey-delivers-medical-aid-gaza-amid-shortage-supplies-1945379490

 

The medical unit access that the Minister claims was blocked by Hamas, one poster claimed he was near to the facility and saw 100s of Israeli staff located at the facility, the week of time of closure, so anyone know if it was re-opened for access by Gazans?

[CBR250]

Humanitarian supplies and some essential medical supplies donated by the International community has arrived in Gaza during 27th / 28th July. Credit where it's due - Israel is fulfilling at least its obligations under Humanitarian Law in this regard. Supplies will be allocated and delivered as conditions allow.

 

Sadly, WHO updates suggest that Health Care facilities are unable to adequately utilise supplies, as they have lost staff to death and injury, and many more who cannot work as they are fully engaged in tending to their own families. The other concerns for health are the loss of power and water supplies. You can't really run a hospital without power and water. Ambulances are not able to work - many have been destroyed, and some areas are so badly damaged by Israeli shelling that they cannot move around. Ambulances clearly marked with the Red Crescent have had their staff shot, apparently by snipers. These shootings occurred even after obtaining permission from the IDF to rescue injured people in precise locations.

http://www.emro.who.int/images/stories/palestine/documents/WHO_Sitrep_on_Gaza__5_-_July_28.pdf?ua=1

 

 

 

[up-country_sinclair]

 

 the Palestinian authority actually turned away medicine donated by Israel twice in one week. Perhaps they should themselves be investigated for crimes,against humanity for putting propaganda ahead of the lives of their own people.

 

 

By even the most conservative of estimates, Israel has murdered hundreds of women and children in the last 3 weeks via the most inhumane and immoral actions. 

 

Would the US have accepted donated medical supplies from the Japanese after the Pearl Harbor attacks?

 

Why shouldn't the people of Gaza presume that this "donation" is not what Israeli claims it to be?  Quite frankly, they'd have to be crazy to assume that Israel has their best interests at heart.  Would anyone be completely shocked to learn in a few years that this medicine was in some way tainted?  I certainly wouldn't.

[Jay Sata]

Window dressing on the part of Israel to deflect world opinion.

[Steely Dan]

Humanitarian supplies and some essential medical supplies donated by the International community has arrived in Gaza during 27th / 28th July. Credit where it's due - Israel is fulfilling at least its obligations under Humanitarian Law in this regard. Supplies will be allocated and delivered as conditions allow.
 
Sadly, WHO updates suggest that Health Care facilities are unable to adequately utilise supplies, as they have lost staff to death and injury, and many more who cannot work as they are fully engaged in tending to their own families. The other concerns for health are the loss of power and water supplies. You can't really run a hospital without power and water. Ambulances are not able to work - many have been destroyed, and some areas are so badly damaged by Israeli shelling that they cannot move around. Ambulances clearly marked with the Red Crescent have had their staff shot, apparently by snipers. These shootings occurred even after obtaining permission from the IDF to rescue injured people in precise locations.
http://www.emro.who.int/images/stories/palestine/documents/WHO_Sitrep_on_Gaza__5_-_July_28.pdf?ua=1
 
 
 

Would they be the same ambulances that Hamas terrorists routinely use as transport, taking the obligatory cargo of children with just in case.


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[Jay Sata]

 

Humanitarian supplies and some essential medical supplies donated by the International community has arrived in Gaza during 27th / 28th July. Credit where it's due - Israel is fulfilling at least its obligations under Humanitarian Law in this regard. Supplies will be allocated and delivered as conditions allow.
 
Sadly, WHO updates suggest that Health Care facilities are unable to adequately utilise supplies, as they have lost staff to death and injury, and many more who cannot work as they are fully engaged in tending to their own families. The other concerns for health are the loss of power and water supplies. You can't really run a hospital without power and water. Ambulances are not able to work - many have been destroyed, and some areas are so badly damaged by Israeli shelling that they cannot move around. Ambulances clearly marked with the Red Crescent have had their staff shot, apparently by snipers. These shootings occurred even after obtaining permission from the IDF to rescue injured people in precise locations.
http://www.emro.who.int/images/stories/palestine/documents/WHO_Sitrep_on_Gaza__5_-_July_28.pdf?ua=1
 
 
 

Would they be the same ambulances that Hamas terrorists routinely use as transport, taking the obligatory cargo of children with just in case.


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I cannot believe you are so blinkered. 

[up-country_sinclair]

 

Would they be the same ambulances that Hamas terrorists routinely use as transport, taking the obligatory cargo of children with just in case.


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The persistent attempt to dehumanize these innocent children is revolting.  Referring to them as "cargo" or "shields" is an oft used Israeli stratagem that  attempts to distract from the salient fact:  these are innocent children.   And Israel is murdering them by choice.

[Jingthing]

Murder is not the right word.

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[joepublic]

 

Think you'll find most regular decent people condemn killing of women and children whoever does it and whoever are the victims.

 

It is false to suggest its anything for most but simply a natural reaction when innocents and those unable to defend themselves are killed. 

 

There is no defence no matter who the aggressor is, whatever race, whatever nation, whatever religion, it is wrong and disgusting to most. People do not like to see civilian casualties, period. 

 

It just happens to be Israel as the main aggressor  and the more people try to justify so many children and civilian injuries and deaths the less support Israel will continue to enjoy or indeed be surprised or sympathetic when there is blowback. This would be both unfortunate and sad but as we know all too well from history when a bully eventually gets taken down a peg or two then the usual reaction is one of apathy and people tend to be unsurprised and often even unsympathetic. In Israel's case not because most normal people are  Anti Semitic but because its simply wrong and they tend to have long  memories and understand what goes around often comes around.  

 

And yes if this were the British instead of Israel acting in this manner I would be ashamed of Britain and also outraged ( as I am for many things Britain has done and continues to at times ) whether I were myself British or considered Britain an ally. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with you 100% that killing of women and children or any other civilians is shocking and should be avoided.

Also most of the people of Israel would agree with you ( ofcourse there are the extremists on both sides, but they are a minority).

 

BUT the problem is that you fail to understand WHY citizens are being killed, and from there HOW to make it stop!

 

Hamas doesnt have the sensitivity that you and the rest of the western world has for human lives. 

It uses death of civilians for its advantage in a sick propaganda.

For Hamas, the more civilian casualties, the more shocking the better. 

Unfortunately, Hamas and News agencies share an interest - the more shocking the better the story.

 

Hamas uses your sensitivity to their advantage. They actually were counting on it!

They know pretty well that they cant defeat Israel with their rockets, they want to defeat it on the world opinion stage.

Otherwise, how can you explain that they refused all long lasting cease fires, broke all "Humanitarian cease fires", and were the one to start this conflict!

 

They dont think like me and you. For the extremist Muslim, to die as a shahid (martyr in the name of Islam) is the best thing they can aspire to.

All life here on earth come to serve only one goal, the life in the afterlife, and there, it is only heaven or hell.

So according to that twisted logic, ofcourse you want a sure ticket for reaching heaven (being a Shahid).

 

Hamas caused the conflict. It doesnt want to stop it. It hides behinds civilians.

It attacks from civilian centers to reach a win win situation: or Israel will sustain from hitting the target, or more civilians will die.

The more civilian dies, the more people will join their rank, the more Israel looses its status.

 

I dont expect you to believe me, do research on your own, but you can start with these:

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2wvqDfitLY

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i08L09V0_sg

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT6iKFQDEP4

 

The usual, "blame the victim" nonsense, morphing into the "its their religion" irrelevance. Anything to divert from the core issue of the Zionist land theft

[Ulysses G.]

Referring to them as "cargo" or "shields" is an oft used Israeli stratagem that  attempts to distract from the salient fact:  these are innocent children.

Please stop with the brainless talking points. What does the using term "cargo of children" have to do with some fictitious  "Israeli stratagem"?

[up-country_sinclair]

Murder is not the right word.

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So just to confirm:

 

"antisemitism" and "hate crime" are the rights words, but "murder" is not the right word. 

[simple1]

 

Humanitarian supplies and some essential medical supplies donated by the International community has arrived in Gaza during 27th / 28th July. Credit where it's due - Israel is fulfilling at least its obligations under Humanitarian Law in this regard. Supplies will be allocated and delivered as conditions allow.
 
Sadly, WHO updates suggest that Health Care facilities are unable to adequately utilise supplies, as they have lost staff to death and injury, and many more who cannot work as they are fully engaged in tending to their own families. The other concerns for health are the loss of power and water supplies. You can't really run a hospital without power and water. Ambulances are not able to work - many have been destroyed, and some areas are so badly damaged by Israeli shelling that they cannot move around. Ambulances clearly marked with the Red Crescent have had their staff shot, apparently by snipers. These shootings occurred even after obtaining permission from the IDF to rescue injured people in precise locations.
http://www.emro.who.int/images/stories/palestine/documents/WHO_Sitrep_on_Gaza__5_-_July_28.pdf?ua=1
 

Would they be the same ambulances that Hamas terrorists routinely use as transport, taking the obligatory cargo of children with just in case.

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Doesn't sound as though IDF forces would face an immediate threat. If IDF know of this tactic & still attack ambulances that may have children as cover, they should not do so, it's equally immoral as Hamas.

[Asiantravel]

Murder is not the right word.

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Huh ?     Even your  fellow countrymen says it is

 'GOVERNMENT MURDERING CHILDREN WITH MY MONEY,' SAYS ISRAELI JEW

Ofer Neiman and a group of like-minded Israelis are not only pained by the ongoing Israeli onslaught against the blockaded Gaza Strip, but also by what they describe as Israel's "apartheid" policies against the "oppressed" Palestinian people. "I feel my government is murdering children using my money and claiming to do it in my name,

 

 

 

 

http://www.dailysabah.com/mideast/2014/07/19/government-murdering-children-with-my-money-says-israeli-jew

[Ulysses G.]

Jingthing is American and there are all kinds of opinions in  Israel. You can find a few Jews that will say just about anything. 

 

[Exsexyman]

Murder is not the right word.

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Bombing a UN shelter killing children taking refuge there, despite having been warned 17 times that children were sleeping there is Murder. Dropping laser guided bombs with their acknowledged pin point accuracy on a crowded market during a 4 hour 'humanitarian window', killing up to twenty civilians, then firing on civilians fleeing the scene is Murder. Which ever way you cut it.