Still time to clear your overstay without blacklisting

[Enjoyurlife]

nobody seems to have pointed out that while you can clear your overstay, there is no guarantee you will be allowed to return by the immigration officer at you point of re-entry, resulting in a de facto ban for many overstayers despite claims of leniency.

Then you need to point out that there is never a guarantee you will be allowed back in, even you have some sort of visa.

[shocky2004]

nobody seems to have pointed out that while you can clear your overstay, there is no guarantee you will be allowed to return by the immigration officer at you point of re-entry, resulting in a de facto ban for many overstayers despite claims of leniency.

I guess we shall see.

I'll be flying to Thailand tommorow (or saturday) with someone that has cleared an overstay a week and a half ago. He now has his tourist visa and we will go to BKK Airport.

But from what we got told by 3 different immigrations, he shouldn't have a problem.

I'll post my report asap.

[kriswillems]

Cissi,

The English translation is just wrong. Who made it?

The Thai text doesn't talk about 90 days in the first paragraph (the paragraph you put in yellow), but the English translation does, leading to a lot of confusion.

The Thai text clearly says that if you get apprehended with up to 1 year overstay you're blacklisted for 5 years.

That means that even 1 day overstay can lead to 5 years blacklisting (if apprehended).

Your interpretation is wrong.

I can read Thai pretty well and I am sure about what the Thai text says.

(However, it's possible that the Thai text is not the final version, let's hope so)

Edited July 24, 2014 by kriswillems

[thaibreaker]

Cissi,

The English translation is just wrong. Who made it?

The Thai text doesn't talk about 90 days in the first paragraph (the paragraph you put in yellow), but the English translation does, leading to a lot of confusion.

The Thai text clearly says that if you get apprehended with up to 1 year overstay you're blacklisted for 5 years.

That means that even 1 day overstay can lead to 5 years blacklisting (if apprehended).

Your interpretation is wrong.

I can read Thai pretty well and I am sure about what the Thai text says.

(However, it's possible that the Thai text is not the final version, let's hope so)

Interpreting or not, I think this clearified it pretty good:

Lt Col Banphot Kittivira, Deputy Superintendent of the Immigration checkpoint at Sadao, on the Malaysian border, confirmed that his office received a copy of the new form. “Although the form currently states that any foreigners caught overstaying by less than a year will be banned from re-entering the Kingdom for five years, please note that this will only apply to foreigners who overstay by more than 90 days,” he said.

“Any foreigners who overstay less than 90 days will be subjected to the normal 500-baht a day fine.”

[kriswillems]

Okay, Let's hope Phuket Gazette is right. But that paper posted by George is for sure different from what Phuket Gazette says.

[sjaak327]

Cissi,

The English translation is just wrong. Who made it?

The Thai text doesn't talk about 90 days in the first paragraph (the paragraph you put in yellow), but the English translation does, leading to a lot of confusion.

The Thai text clearly says that if you get apprehended with up to 1 year overstay you're blacklisted for 5 years.

That means that even 1 day overstay can lead to 5 years blacklisting (if apprehended).

Your interpretation is wrong.

I can read Thai pretty well and I am sure about what the Thai text says.

(However, it's possible that the Thai text is not the final version, let's hope so)

Interpreting or not, I think this clearified it pretty good:

Lt Col Banphot Kittivira, Deputy Superintendent of the Immigration checkpoint at Sadao, on the Malaysian border, confirmed that his office received a copy of the new form. “Although the form currently states that any foreigners caught overstaying by less than a year will be banned from re-entering the Kingdom for five years, please note that this will only apply to foreigners who overstay by more than 90 days,” he said.

“Any foreigners who overstay less than 90 days will be subjected to the normal 500-baht a day fine.”

Except of course people that were apprehended did not just got subjected to the normal 500 baht a day fine, they faced prosecution and deportation. I do not believe this provides some hope.

[kiddeemak]

nobody seems to have pointed out that while you can clear your overstay, there is no guarantee you will be allowed to return by the immigration officer at you point of re-entry, resulting in a de facto ban for many overstayers despite claims of leniency.

I guess we shall see.

I'll be flying to Thailand tommorow (or saturday) with someone that has cleared an overstay a week and a half ago. He now has his tourist visa and we will go to BKK Airport.

But from what we got told by 3 different immigrations, he shouldn't have a problem.

I'll post my report asap.

Thats funny because you started a thread advising everyone with an overstay to fly via Chiang Mai, because as far as you know "noone has ever been refused entry there"

"TRUST ME" you said, fly via Chiang Mai...

[asean]

Suvarnabhumi has already decided to enforce its own rules. Two clients refused entry at SVB this week. Reason for refusal of entry = previous overstay one month. It is still up to the discretion of the officer at the gate just like USA.

[Cissi]

Cissi,

The English translation is just wrong. Who made it?

The Thai text doesn't talk about 90 days in the first paragraph (the paragraph you put in yellow), but the English translation does, leading to a lot of confusion.

The Thai text clearly says that if you get apprehended with up to 1 year overstay you're blacklisted for 5 years.

That means that even 1 day overstay can lead to 5 years blacklisting (if apprehended).

Your interpretation is wrong.

I can read Thai pretty well and I am sure about what the Thai text says.

(However, it's possible that the Thai text is not the final version, let's hope so)

Kriswillems,

​I do not read thai so my interpretation was based on the english text in the immigration notice (the document in which I marked the part about 90 days overstay).

I don't think my interpretation of the english text is wrong. From what I understand the text in thai is different and I understand that it causes even more confusion.

However, the document that both George and I posted (on which I pointed out some parts with red and yellow) was a notification from The Immigration Bureau. It has their logo/badge on it and I've seen the document on several websites... It is set as a "pop up announcement" on the website of Royal Thai Immigration Police (http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/popup_anounce.html) and since it is a document published on internet by immigration authorities I take it as "valid"... Meaning that I don't think that the text written in english is put there without having any substance. I don't think the Immigration Bureau would write about the "overstaying more than 90 days", if that wasn't in their intentions...

Also, having read a lot about the upcoming changes and some about the reasons to why they want to make new regulations I feel pretty sure that they are not aiming to ban those who have a few days overstay... Anyone is free to do their own interpretations though.

I don't think that either the thai or english version is final yet... Some weeks ago there was a document with an earlier version of the suggested new rules circulating on internet that had a life-ban for overstaying more than 10 years if you surrendered yourself, but not if you were apprehended (!) and the penalties written in thai and english on each point... You can see part of it in a previous post hear on thaivisa, unfortunatly not the text above the penalties: (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/740634-thai-immigration-bureau-to-blacklist-all-overstayers-of-more-than-90-days/), but reading headline and the post itself, it seems likely that that there was text about overstaying more than 90 days.

I'm sure there will be corrections in the text once it's been reviewed for approval by the ministry.

We will just have to wait and see what's finally written in the new regulations once they are official.

[hawker9000]

The bizarre thing is... The fact that this isn't in effect yet, and now apparently won't be until September (or even beyond) will prompt some current overstayers, particularly long overstayers, to "hold what they've got" and just continue their overstays, the mindset being that they're "giving away something" by exiting the country "early" to clear their overstay status (particularly if they have reason to think they mightn't be allowed back...). I can't believe I'm saying this (as I've been ranting about the uncertainty & confusion in this whole immigration thing since back in April), but in this one case, leaving the "uncertainty" in the air about whether or not these rules were already enforceable might have served their purpose better as a driver for lighting a fire under current overstayers.

I believe the argument over what happens to less than 90-day overstayers (if apprehended) is played out. I personally think I know what the notice says (but so do many others, obviously, on both sides of the argument), but the fact that there's so much volume and so much conviction on both sides pretty much proves the notice must be unclear, no matter how clear some of the rest of us might think it is. At this point everybody's just repeating and longwindedly "voting for" and "me too'ing" what's already been said. Until & unless another clarifying formal notice is issued, or the rules go into effect and start getting enforced and reports start filtering back, I'm not sure there's much else to say or much reason to say it.

[NancyL]

What <deleted> comes to a foreign country and knowingly overstays his or her visa?? Deserves what's coming to them....

See post No. 23. I wish someone would answer my question about whether it's possible to go to a land border, pay the fine, go out in a wheelchair and turn around to come in to get a 30 day stamp?

Please, have some compassion.

Nancy with your contacts at Immigration I am sure you have someone to discuss this with. I understand the situation fully because I am in exactly that situation but I have a visa. From my experience of Thais they are perfectly willing to help. My guess is the officer indicated that his hands were tied and unless the person left and re-entered he could do nothing. If he leaves he can almost certainly re-enter but I think a talk with immigration themselves may clarify this.

Yes, harrry, this situation has been discussed with Chiang Mai Immigration and they, quite rightly said they can't predict what will happen at the border. All they could say is there is no way they're going to clear the overstay without the guy leaving the country. I didn't try to have this conversation myself -- I've tried to have similar conversations in the past and knew this was the answer. We hired a visa agent and this was the same answer.

The person is American, so normally he'd get 30 days visa exempt on a land entry. He hasn't done a land entry for years, so no problem with any recent history of visa exempt entry.

The visa agent suggested running all the paperwork up to the border -- passport, photographs, doctors letter and medical certificate -- without the guy and asking the Immigration officials at the border what they'd do for someone who showed up in this situation. This seems like a good plan. It does chew up another day, but this guy can barely travel.

Edited July 25, 2014 by NancyL

[ubonjoe]

Suvarnabhumi has already decided to enforce its own rules. Two clients refused entry at SVB this week. Reason for refusal of entry = previous overstay one month. It is still up to the discretion of the officer at the gate just like USA.

I think that was based more on their past history more so than the overstay. Perhaps trying to enter on a visa exempt entry after having many of those before, A bit more information would help when you make a post such as this,

I know of one person the left on Sunday with a long overstay and returned on Tuesday with a non-o visa without any problem.

[shocky2004]

nobody seems to have pointed out that while you can clear your overstay, there is no guarantee you will be allowed to return by the immigration officer at you point of re-entry, resulting in a de facto ban for many overstayers despite claims of leniency.

I guess we shall see.

I'll be flying to Thailand tommorow (or saturday) with someone that has cleared an overstay a week and a half ago. He now has his tourist visa and we will go to BKK Airport.

But from what we got told by 3 different immigrations, he shouldn't have a problem.

I'll post my report asap.

Thats funny because you started a thread advising everyone with an overstay to fly via Chiang Mai, because as far as you know "noone has ever been refused entry there"

"TRUST ME" you said, fly via Chiang Mai...

Yes, its so funny!

What point are you trying to make old man? We have to go through Bangkok immigration before we go in CM cause here in Cambodia theres no direct flight (at least, from what i know) to CNX.

And i still recommend people the CNX Airport.

Stop trying to start debate for no reason, slow down papi, go hit the shower a little bit.

[Jean Pierre Jacquot]

Good news? I do not see this as good news!

Thailand is already very nice with foreigners letting them stay legally for years, very different than other countries in the West. Anybody just overstaying for long periods (because 20K for them is the better deal) does not show even the slightest respect to Thailand and rather low moral and ethical standards. Why give them a grace period. Kick them out and let them not in anymore!

[SeaVisionBurma]

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[joepattaya1961]

Could you also clarify that if you are apprehended with less than 90 days overstay what happens ? 5 year ban or ????

Less than 90 days is less than 1 year = 5 year ban!

[Mario2008]

Could you also clarify that if you are apprehended with less than 90 days overstay what happens ? 5 year ban or ????

Less than 90 days is less than 1 year = 5 year ban!

The layout of the document suggest that there is no ban for an overstay of less than 90 days.

Only after 90 days is there a ban and than it matters if you report yourself or are apprehended.

[SeaVisionBurma]

Last post removed as off topic - lets get back onto the thread subject folks

[AGareth2]

it would seem we have an opportunity to clear our overstays and get legal

use this time window if you can get hold of the money ASAP

[fauxie]

I don't have a current overstay, but had a previous one of just over 6 months a few years ago and this will be my first time returning since then. This shouldn't affect me anyway, but still I feel like this is good news for me as far as things going alright at passport control. Suggests that arriving on the 13th next month I won't be arriving amidst the utter confusion I had feared I would be. Still have to wait and see though.

[csabo]

I don't have a current overstay, but had a previous one of just over 6 months a few years ago and this will be my first time returning since then. This shouldn't affect me anyway, but still I feel like this is good news for me as far as things going alright at passport control. Suggests that arriving on the 13th next month I won't be arriving amidst the utter confusion I had feared I would be. Still have to wait and see though.

The new rules go into effect August 12. You could not be more "amidst" if you tried.

[fauxie]

I don't have a current overstay, but had a previous one of just over 6 months a few years ago and this will be my first time returning since then. This shouldn't affect me anyway, but still I feel like this is good news for me as far as things going alright at passport control. Suggests that arriving on the 13th next month I won't be arriving amidst the utter confusion I had feared I would be. Still have to wait and see though.

The new rules go into effect August 12. You could not be more "amidst" if you tried.

I read elsewhere on TV it could be longer than that before it's in place, as in September. I forget which thread. Also I'm not an overstayer now, of course, so it really shouldn't be an issue. I just want to avoid any possible confusion with over-zealous officers, if possible. I remember seeing the August 12th date and thinking it was a nightmare I was getting there on the 13th. Now even if it is all changing on that day I'm feeling ok because from what we've seen we know it's not retroactive, and this latest update, that they're using common sense and giving current overstayers some time, can only be good for my safe return to LOS. After panicking a bit last week when I first saw about all the overstay stuff I'm now feeling suitably reassured, though still not 100%. At ease, though. I think I'll be fine. Everything's in order and I'm starting to feel more excited than nervous about being back for the first time in over 18 months.

Edited July 26, 2014 by fauxie

[Maestro]

fauxie, I see no reason why you should have a problem. The stricter checks announced to start on 12 November are for people who live long-term in Thailand as tourists with border runs to neighbouring countries, what immigration is now calling "out-in visa runs"

[justaphase]

My wife confirmed with 2 different immigration offices that the rules will be in effect from the beginning of October. The normal 60 day period from when they were announced.

[jaei]

What about those with stolen/lost passport, due visa an all?

[dingdongrb]

Let me ask, the overstay fine max of 20k baht, is this the same as being late with the 90 reporting? I thought the max for 90 day reporting was 2k baht....or was it changed?

[Mario2008]

Nothing changed.

Fine for overstay is maimum of 20,000

fine for lete reporting is 2,000 baht but the law allows a maximum of 5,000 baht.

[John1thru10]

I don't have a current overstay, but had a previous one of just over 6 months a few years ago and this will be my first time returning since then. This shouldn't affect me anyway, but still I feel like this is good news for me as far as things going alright at passport control. Suggests that arriving on the 13th next month I won't be arriving amidst the utter confusion I had feared I would be. Still have to wait and see though.

The new rules go into effect August 12. You could not be more "amidst" if you tried.

Also, former overstays, if still in your current passport, are not a help to you at all right now.

[John1thru10]

Suvarnabhumi has already decided to enforce its own rules. Two clients refused entry at SVB this week. Reason for refusal of entry = previous overstay one month. It is still up to the discretion of the officer at the gate just like USA.

I'm just giving this a bump here, because it's important. Myself, I had a 2 month overstay several years ago, which no one cared about at the time - they were laughing in fact, and saying I was always welcome. 3 months ago, I caught a huge amount of hostility from an officer about that old overstay, entering Sawanabhumi.

If you have past overstays in your passport, I would personally advise you to be aware - it can be a problem.

Edited July 28, 2014 by John1thru10

[John1thru10]

Suvarnabhumi has already decided to enforce its own rules. Two clients refused entry at SVB this week. Reason for refusal of entry = previous overstay one month. It is still up to the discretion of the officer at the gate just like USA.

I think that was based more on their past history more so than the overstay. Perhaps trying to enter on a visa exempt entry after having many of those before, A bit more information would help when you make a post such as this,

I know of one person the left on Sunday with a long overstay and returned on Tuesday with a non-o visa without any problem.

This is a good point also, regarding past overstays - they are especially tough about it, if you are attempting to enter with a 30 exemption now. If you have many of those from the past, and particularly with an overstay from the past, then it's trouble.