Is Thailand The Best Place To Retire Or Pristine Singapore?

[canman]

 

What do they call foreign visitors in Singapore?
 
 

They call them "ang moh", which means "red monkey" in Hokien if i'm not mistaken. Neither that or "farang" ever bothered me. That's just common usage nowadays and I don't hear bad intent in it.

 

Ang Moh = Red hair

[Berkshire]

 

In some ways, I don't really get this thread.  If you're wealthy enough to retire (comfortably) in Singapore, then you're wealthy enough to retire pretty much anywhere in the world.  And if you could go anywhere, why on Earth would you go to Singapore?

If you have to ask, you don't really know Singapore.

I'd retire there in a flash if I could.

 

 

I've been to Singapore, many times, which is why I ask.  The point is the OP is comparing Thailand to Singapore, which to me is not comparing apples to apples.  More appropriate might be Singapore to Tokyo.  Or Seoul.  Perhaps even HK...if we're talking Asia. 

 

Singapore could be fun if you're working, young, decent looking, and wealthy.  Place to retire?  Heck, even if you've got the bucks, Maui would be better...along with several dozen other places.  But again, I'd prefer Thailand.
 

[sundrenched]

Just to address a  couple of Eppic's points points based on my 9 years in Singapore:

 

Couldn't disagree more that Singapore has better Western food than Thailand.  One of my pet peeves about Singapore is premium prices for mediocre quality from cooks who obviously don't have a clue.  I remember even ordering a decaf coffee in a Raffles Hotel restaurant 5-6 years ago (8 or 9 SGD a cup) and they brought me instant coffee.  Sure, there are some decent places, but they're few and far in between.  For the most part, it's identikit chain places in malls, with tables crammed so close together that you hardly have any privacy.   Even though Bangkok is a very crowded city, one of the delights is that once you're inside, there's plenty of space.  Just last night I had a great dinner in an italian restaurant (nice hole in the wall family kind of place that could never pay the rent in Singapore), salad, pasta and three glasses of wine for 800 Baht.  No way I'd find that in Singapore.  

 

Don't even get me started about the food courts.  Many articles have been written in the Straits Times about the declining quality.  Rising rents and unwillingness of people to pay for quality means most vendors now sell a lot of oily, greasy food with the minimum cost in ingredients possible.  Again, you can find exceptions, but IMO it's preposterous to say Singapore has the edge here.  Just today I had a wonderful lunch at the vegetarian stall on the 4th floor of Amarin Plaza for 60 Baht.  If I knew similar quality in Singapore for 10 or even 15 SGD, I would have gone there every day.  Most vegetarian food in Singaporean hawker centers is vegetables bathing in oil, by the way, so a surefire way to gaining weight.   Most Indian food in Singaporean hawker centers is incredibly greasy too -- a point all my Indian friends always made.  

 

So in a nutshell: hawker centers/foodcourts, Thailand is not just better but vastly better (Mike Tyson vs. Woody Allen matchup).  As for mid-level restaurants, Singapore gets A+ for pretentiousness and C- for delivered quality, whereas in Bangkok there are so many good mid-level restaurants you could never try them all.  At the high end, I'll still give Thailand the edge and I've had many incidents in such places (like the instant coffee at the Raffles Hotel -- totally unacceptable and illustrative of the cluelessness) of service failures.   

 

Some other examples of clueless service in Singapore: I ordered a set lunch in a mid-level place (around 30 dollars IIRC) with soup, main course and coffee.  The waiter brought me my soup and coffee together, then my main course.  He saw absolutely no problem bringing me the coffee together with the soup.  For him it was promise met as shown on the menu.   Another example was in a Japanese restaurant where I asked if a dish was vegetarian, which the waiter confirmed.  It turned out to have bacon on it.  His reply: "there's no extra charge for the meat, Sir!".    Anyway, I'll stop ranting now, but if you think Thailand has a monopoly on bone-headedness...   It gets my goat that Singapore is often held up as such a paragon of service, when the reality is that it's distinctly a work in progress, and rough service abounds.  The problem is that with the fast growth, companies haven't been able to hire and train service personnel properly, so often you get served by people fresh off the plane from a farm town in China or Malaysia with no idea about what's expected.  

[sundrenched]

To also say something positive / add to the discussion: I've met plenty of nice Singaporeans, and I couldn't easily say which of the two I like better.  Singaporeans may not smile at you all the time, but I've met many who were kind and genuine once you get to know them better.  It's a very stressful society and the PAP keeps them strapped to the hamster wheel all the time.  This can make people impatient and pushy sometimes, but you have to be sometimes in that environment.  When I got to know people, I found most to be pretty nice (if not a bit Victorian in their attitudes, but that's another story again).  I may prefer the more no-nonsense directness of Singapore and Hong Kong to the sometimes fake smiles in Thailand.  

[3NUMBAS]

if you have a brain you can still live in singapore and make a good salary compared with thailand and commute to phuket for example

[Ulysses G.]

Just to address a  couple of Eppic's points points based on my 9 years in Singapore:
 
Couldn't disagree more that Singapore has better Western food than Thailand.

I have never lived in Singapore, but I've visited a lot over the last two decades+. I agree with Eppic on the food being better and cheaper in Singapore (unless you eat mostly Thai food all of the time). Like he says, not even close.

[Berkshire]

 I may prefer the more no-nonsense directness of Singapore and Hong Kong to the sometimes fake smiles in Thailand.  

 

It's all so subjective, isn't it?  Contrary to what my other posts may have implied, I actually like Singapore.  Like to visit, that is.  It's an aesthetically pleasing sort of place, but a bit superficial.  If one likes a structured, orderly, and predictable sort of society, Singapore is for you.  But I find the people there sort of subdued and resigned to their station in life.  Sort of knowing that no matter how smart they are, or how hard they work, getting ahead in that rat race is really not in the cards.  Sure there are a good number of successful folks there.  But they are far outnumbered by the ones just getting by and going nowhere fast.

 

[eppic]

 

 #57 <Many of this girls have GREAT bodies, something that I have personally found to be very rare in Thailand>

Either you haven't looked very hard, or you've never been up north.

 

I guess it's time for a road trip to Chiang Mai this weekend :p

 

Seriously, we belong to Fitness First gym here in BKK, and also did in Singapore.  In S'pore, the hotties in sexy outfits are everywhere, and here in BKK (at the flagship Siam Paragon outlet) they are very rare. The gym here is pretty much a "sausage festival", as we say in the States, while in S'pore there are more women than men. My wife wholeheartedly agrees, BTW.  Apparently, it's the culture.  Momma won't let any decent girl exit the house in revealing or tight clothes, and exercise is to be avoided at all costs (why do so when surgery/weight loss centers are available?). Maybe this is just a BKK thing, I've only been up North a couple of times.  

 

As for Sundrenched's post, I can partially concede some of your points in that Singapore's food courts aren't as great as they once were and are certainly not as great a value, but they definitely have much better variety than those in BKK.  If I want great, cheap Thai food I really like the Terminal 21 food court, for example. Very nice variety of Thai food, but nothing much in the way of other Asian foods (or Western).  I can get variety at Siam Paragon food court, perhaps, but at insane prices.  The food court at Siam Centre, Food Republic, is actually a Singapore brand, so has some of the usual Singapore staples (chicken rice, etc), but not as much variety or as well prepared.  If there are better, conveniently located places I would love to learn about them.

 

Regarding service, no question Singapore has its issues. The place is very "rules oriented", for example, so if I want, let's say, a crispy-crust pizza, the server response is "mei-yo -- don't have" rather than, "ok, we will leave it in the oven a few minutes extra".  However, while service is generally perfunctory, at least it's very efficient, in typical Singapore style. 

 

I do think that Bangkok has been getting much better over the years, while Singapore has been going slightly the other direction (again, more like HK). I would never have considered living in BKK 10 years ago, but it's now developed to the stage where it is a tolerable transition from Singapore...if they could eventually catch up in things like quality of condos, mass transit, taxi service, etc., Bangkok may eventually be a viable alternative to the "spoiled expat" S'pore lifestyle that I miss.  Maybe in another 10 years? (Uber is a good start for the taxi part).

 

[thaibeachlovers]

 

 

 #57 <Many of this girls have GREAT bodies, something that I have personally found to be very rare in Thailand>

Either you haven't looked very hard, or you've never been up north.

 

I guess it's time for a road trip to Chiang Mai this weekend

 

Seriously, we belong to Fitness First gym here in BKK, and also did in Singapore.  In S'pore, the hotties in sexy outfits are everywhere, and here in BKK (at the flagship Siam Paragon outlet) they are very rare. The gym here is pretty much a "sausage festival", as we say in the States, while in S'pore there are more women than men. My wife wholeheartedly agrees, BTW.  Apparently, it's the culture.  Momma won't let any decent girl exit the house in revealing or tight clothes, and exercise is to be avoided at all costs (why do so when surgery/weight loss centers are available?). Maybe this is just a BKK thing, I've only been up North a couple of times.  

 

As for Sundrenched's post, I can partially concede some of your points in that Singapore's food courts aren't as great as they once were and are certainly not as great a value, but they definitely have much better variety than those in BKK.  If I want great, cheap Thai food I really like the Terminal 21 food court, for example. Very nice variety of Thai food, but nothing much in the way of other Asian foods (or Western).  I can get variety at Siam Paragon food court, perhaps, but at insane prices.  The food court at Siam Centre, Food Republic, is actually a Singapore brand, so has some of the usual Singapore staples (chicken rice, etc), but not as much variety or as well prepared.  If there are better, conveniently located places I would love to learn about them.

 

Regarding service, no question Singapore has its issues. The place is very "rules oriented", for example, so if I want, let's say, a crispy-crust pizza, the server response is "mei-yo -- don't have" rather than, "ok, we will leave it in the oven a few minutes extra".  However, while service is generally perfunctory, at least it's very efficient, in typical Singapore style. 

 

I do think that Bangkok has been getting much better over the years, while Singapore has been going slightly the other direction (again, more like HK). I would never have considered living in BKK 10 years ago, but it's now developed to the stage where it is a tolerable transition from Singapore...if they could eventually catch up in things like quality of condos, mass transit, taxi service, etc., Bangkok may eventually be a viable alternative to the "spoiled expat" S'pore lifestyle that I miss.  Maybe in another 10 years? (Uber is a good start for the taxi part).

 

 

< can get variety at Siam Paragon food court, perhaps, but at insane prices.  The food court at Siam Centre, Food Republic, is actually a Singapore brand, so has some of the usual Singapore staples (chicken rice, etc), but not as much variety or as well prepared.  If there are better, conveniently located places I would love to learn about them.

 

 

Assume you are referring to Bkk. MBK's is the best in Bkk ( not the posh expensive one downstairs ), but if you only eat at places like Paragon I doubt if you'd like it.

 

<(at the flagship Siam Paragon outlet) they are very rare.>

LOL. No wonder you haven't seen decent bodies about. The best looking girls in Thailand probably couldn't afford to go there. Central Airport Chiang Mai is the place for DDG totty.

Edited July 30, 2014 by thaibeachlovers

[LawrenceChee]

I am a Singaporean and would say having left there some 10+ years of overseas travel / work plus living in Chiang Mai ...Singapore has it's strengths depending on what you look for

When I return there, I generally visit the straits restaurants where no such decent choices is available in Singapore ...carrot cake , char kway teow, char siew rice laksa etc

As for infrastructure ...again it depends what you are looking for ....from a business point everything works better and faster in Singapore ...yes there are dumb rules but at least they are consistent so you can plan around that.

As for leisure, space and the feeling of being able to relax Thailand is hands down my fav

Lots of good comments about Singaporeans here in this thread ...most Singaporeans are friendly however at this movement they are pissed with their government and suffering from foreigner fatigue with just too much people on the island

It's losing it's own identity and the citizens are frustrated and by nature very closed minded and rather not speak out ...hence the pent up frustration


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[thaibeachlovers]

I am a Singaporean and would say having left there some 10+ years of overseas travel / work plus living in Chiang Mai ...Singapore has it's strengths depending on what you look for

When I return there, I generally visit the straits restaurants where no such decent choices is available in Singapore ...carrot cake , char kway teow, char siew rice laksa etc

As for infrastructure ...again it depends what you are looking for ....from a business point everything works better and faster in Singapore ...yes there are dumb rules but at least they are consistent so you can plan around that.

As for leisure, space and the feeling of being able to relax Thailand is hands down my fav

Lots of good comments about Singaporeans here in this thread ...most Singaporeans are friendly however at this movement they are pissed with their government and suffering from foreigner fatigue with just too much people on the island

It's losing it's own identity and the citizens are frustrated and by nature very closed minded and rather not speak out ...hence the pent up frustration


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<It's losing it's own identity>

And what would that be? It's only been an independent country since the 1960s and before that was a British military base. Hardly long enough to have a "culture".

 

<yes there are dumb rules>

What "dumb" rules. I'd like my country to be as strict as Singapore is. Might get rid of the hooligans and the dead wood- could only be a good thing. Cane vandals- right on!

 

I loved my 2 years living in Singapore- best years of my life.

[balo]

I would choose Malaysia over Singapore any day . More relaxed people , more variety .  You'll find anything you look for there. 

[thaibeachlovers]

I would choose Malaysia over Singapore any day . More relaxed people , more variety .  You'll find anything you look for there. 

When Malaysia allows an equivalent of Pattaya, Nana Plaza and Soi Cowboy in it's countries, I'll move there.

[LawrenceChee]

The culture is the singlish we used to speak to each other ...our courtesy campaign lion mascots ...having our packet of magnolia milk in a triangle packaging delivered in school to us

not familiar to you ? Those are things and cultures familiar to those who grew up in the 70s and 80s...noodle seller in the five foot way ... Pretty sure none sounds familiar to you now as you spent 2 years in sterile Singapore where every mall screams money ...screams prestige ...and not the culture of what Singaporeans growing up remember it to be when the island had 4 million and the most posh mall is takashimaya and sogo

And I am sorry this is not another British outpost for your past glories ...those are long gone and the Singaporeans (my grandparents) never forgave the British for their dumb WWII promises ( "Singapore will never fall" don't have to evacuate and leave) and the easy ways they fell under a Japanese wave of attack along the causeway and surrender to a bluff from general yamashita

The Aussies and kiwis on the other hand the Chinese living in Singapore have a lot of respect for ...fighting down to the last man in Malaysia and Singapore ..reading history even the Japanese took time to bury them as they mopped down Malaysia as they have respect for soldiers who fought and holding the line and not just talk.

Just saying :)


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[ongchart]

If you have a disposable income of $20,000 a month then Singapore is a good place to base yourself. You can have the best of both worlds - live in a safe, organized, clean, non-corrupt, English speaking environment, and still go to Thailand each weekend to indulge in all your humanly sins cheaply. Money makes a happy person in Singapore, unfortunately.


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But they cane you for free!
 

No they don't do it for free. You have to pay a fine too. That's why Singapore is known as a fine city.

[Thakkar]

I found Singaporeans to be very friendly, but strangely, the city itself quite cold. Go figure.

T

[thaibeachlovers]

The culture is the singlish we used to speak to each other ...our courtesy campaign lion mascots ...having our packet of magnolia milk in a triangle packaging delivered in school to us

not familiar to you ? Those are things and cultures familiar to those who grew up in the 70s and 80s...noodle seller in the five foot way ... Pretty sure none sounds familiar to you now as you spent 2 years in sterile Singapore where every mall screams money ...screams prestige ...and not the culture of what Singaporeans growing up remember it to be when the island had 4 million and the most posh mall is takashimaya and sogo

And I am sorry this is not another British outpost for your past glories ...those are long gone and the Singaporeans (my grandparents) never forgave the British for their dumb WWII promises ( "Singapore will never fall" don't have to evacuate and leave) and the easy ways they fell under a Japanese wave of attack along the causeway and surrender to a bluff from general yamashita

The Aussies and kiwis on the other hand the Chinese living in Singapore have a lot of respect for ...fighting down to the last man in Malaysia and Singapore ..reading history even the Japanese took time to bury them as they mopped down Malaysia as they have respect for soldiers who fought and holding the line and not just talk.

Just saying


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Wrong. I lived there mid 70s. Wonderful place. Not many malls around then. I liked eating sweet and sour pork in the gutter on Transit Rd- no sterile food courts then. Bugis St and Virgin's Corner, LOL.

 

<the easy ways they fell under a Japanese wave of attack along the causeway and surrender to a bluff from general yamashita>

IMO Percival was a gutless coward. No doubt he lived OK while the troops he sold out suffered.

Edited August 3, 2014 by thaibeachlovers

[Naam]

check property prices and rents in "pristine" Singapore and weep! besides, Singapore does not have a retirement option.

[LawrenceChee]

check property prices and rents in "pristine" Singapore and weep! besides, Singapore does not have a retirement option.

Not true though if you believe the current anti-foreigner wave going on in Singapore right now as it seems just about anyone can get a long term visa to stay there and frustrate the local workforce

Alternatively if you can play good ping pong they want you too :) the recent criticism of Singapore buying medals was very evident when they swept almost every medal available in the commonwealth games with their "Chinese" Singapore citizen team.


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[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

Between all the previously mentioned negatives, no retirement options, Fines are the nails in the coffin for relocating there. The very last fine I got was a home association fine because my grass was over the height limit. I told them to stick my grass where the sun don't shine.

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

That grass should be fermented by now and maybe has become "weed" Doubt if it's "smokable"

[Naam]

 

check property prices and rents in "pristine" Singapore and weep! besides, Singapore does not have a retirement option.

Not true though if you believe the current anti-foreigner wave going on in Singapore right now as it seems just about anyone can get a long term visa to stay there and frustrate the local workforce

Alternatively if you can play good ping pong they want you too the recent criticism of Singapore buying medals was very evident when they swept almost every medal available in the commonwealth games with their "Chinese" Singapore citizen team.


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even though you are a Singaporean you have no idea about the topic discussed here. SG has no provision for retirement. period!

 

you can only get a long term visa if you have a job and (YUCK) work or if you form a company, do business in a highly competitive environment and pay taxes.

 

another possibility is investment but investing an amount which is totally irrelevant to mention in a forum like Thaivisa, respectively in a thread with the topic

Is Thailand The Best Place To Retire Or Pristine Singapore?

 

[LawrenceChee]

check property prices and rents in "pristine" Singapore and weep! besides, Singapore does not have a retirement option.

Not true though if you believe the current anti-foreigner wave going on in Singapore right now as it seems just about anyone can get a long term visa to stay there and frustrate the local workforce

Alternatively if you can play good ping pong they want you too :) the recent criticism of Singapore buying medals was very evident when they swept almost every medal available in the commonwealth games with their "Chinese" Singapore citizen team.


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[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

Going to Singapore after being in Thailand was like when I met my girlfriend's friends and thought how lucky I was to have met her and not one of her snobbish and not as beautiful friends.

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

As far as the women, I found the beautiful ones were not very friendly were as a ugly girl has to be friendly. I find Thai girls then to satisfy not just in the sack but also emotionally with their caring ways.

[MrWorldwide]

I'm still gobsmacked that Singapore is officially rated the most expensive city in the world - more expensive than Tokyo, New York, London, Sydney, Beijing and Hong Kong. More expensive than a city like Zurich - ? 

 

Basically, if I could afford to live the life I would want in Singapore I could afford to live on Sydney's Northern beaches - no brainer for me. There are sections of Palm Beach where you could easily forget there is a city of some 5 million people somewhere to the south of you.

 

 

 

<note - oversized image removed from post>

[eppic]

Going to Singapore after being in Thailand was like when I met my girlfriend's friends and thought how lucky I was to have met her and not one of her snobbish and not as beautiful friends.

 

A bit off topic, but Interestingly enough, I know only one person with a Thai wife that meets my definition of "beautiful".  Guess where he met and ultimately married her? Yup, in Singapore, where she was attending university.

 

Of course, I have seen plenty of beautiful Thai women (again, by my definition), but rarely are they with farang in Bangkok (at least the parts I frequent). 99% of the hot Thai women I have seen are with a Thai man.

 

As for the "no retirement visa" thing for Singapore, yes this is true, but visa waiver is 90-days for citizens of many countries, and I know many people that stayed for years without a long-term visa. Most people would want to travel out of Singapore more than once every three months anyway, it's a tiny place and island fever does set in.

[LawrenceChee]

Actually if oh marry a Singaporean woman you get a one year - 5 years long term visa pass that allows you I work with no 90 day reporting and no financial requirements

So in many aspects it's seems easier than the Thai one ...this is "retirement visa " for those that take that marriage option

For the non marriage option while it is true that you don't have a retirement visa to apply , the current Permanent resident and employment pass scheme easily provides consultants with real skills a viable option to stay in Singapore long term if you like




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[harrry]

Actually if oh marry a Singaporean woman you get a one year - 5 years long term visa pass that allows you I work with no 90 day reporting and no financial requirements

So in many aspects it's seems easier than the Thai one ...this is "retirement visa " for those that take that marriage option

For the non marriage option while it is true that you don't have a retirement visa to apply , the current Permanent resident and employment pass scheme easily provides consultants with real skills a viable option to stay in Singapore long term if you like




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If you married a Singapore Girl ( and there are some really nice ones about) you would have to work as the one people that can beat Thais with shopping is a Singaporian..

[seveneleven]

I don't get it, why would someone want to retire in Singapore? 

Unless you have loads of money and prefer the hustle and bustle of a city state, I feel that Thailand's a much better place to be. 

No offense but most of you would probably be better off in your native country/Thailand if retirement's the option. 

 

There are no pensions or any form of benefits in Singapore especially when you're a foreigner.