Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[scorecard]

  On 4/1/2025 at 12:35 PM, mortenaa said:

I just asked the same question. No one has replied to my question yet.

Reports are showing that you cannot select Thailand as your country of residence, so I think we dont need to, as was also the case with TM6.

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Perhaps email to division1.immigration@gmail.com  and ask for an instruction.

 

I've asked many questions on this email address, always got a clear answer in English, within about 3 to 5 days. 

[rimmae2]

  On 4/1/2025 at 2:15 PM, scorecard said:

Perhaps email to division1.immigration@gmail.com  and ask for an instruction.

 

I've asked many questions on this email address, always got a clear answer in English, within about 3 to 5 days. 

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Last year I sent a mail to division1 about e gates and after several weeks received the following reply. I sent a mail to Division 2 but never received a reply.

 

'Please inquire with Immigration Division 2 directly.

Contact - Immigration Division 2

email : saraban_imm2@police.go.th'

[onthemoon]

I asked at Suvarnabhumi and wanted to register for e-gate, as I did with the previous incarnation of e-gates. They said, I must go to the PR section at CW, only they can register PR holders.

When I was at CW to renew my PR (sorry, get an endorsement), I was told they have nothing to do with the e-gates.

All is well organised, as we can see.

[onthemoon]

  On 4/1/2025 at 6:55 AM, Arkady said:

 

It would be in everyone's interest to issue a smart card for PRs but who knows, if they will ever get around to doing this.  The concept behind the red book when it was introduced following the first Immigration Act in 1927 was that it should act an alien ID document to help control the Chinese community who were difficult for Thai police and other authorities to track and many were believed to be involved with triad criminal organisations.  So it was ahead of its time to issue foreigners with ID docs they were supposed to carry everywhere because Thai citizens didn't get ID cards until after the first census of, I think, 1954.  Perhaps they still have substantial stocks of the red book blanks printed in 1927 they need to use up.

 

If they issued smart cards for ID, it would follow that the red books would have to be scrapped and pulped or burned, regardless of how much stock they still have.  Smart cards are issued by DOPA at district offices.  So the section at CW that does nothing by issue red books would be redundant.  So would the alien registration officer in each police station in Bangkok and maybe qutie upcountry whose job is just to sit there waiting for aliens to come in to have new books issued or renew old ones.  Of course district offices would not need to add any staff.  They are already issuing pink cards to PRs anyway.  So it would be a big staff saving and cracking of iron rice bowls of indolent civil servants that the police would fight tooth and nail to prevent or delay, since it is inevitable that it will happen one day.  Add to that the blue and white books that have been made redundant by immigration e-gates and another entire section of Pol Snr Sgt Majs at CW would be forced to play with their phones all day without interruption by the occasional PR.

 

Now they have other types of long term visa, they may as well issue smart cards for them too.  Indeed they could issue an ID card for NON-B visas too and stop giving expats the ridiculous pink non-smart cards that state the holder is not allowed to go out his district without permission of the district officer. 

 

If this were a private company, all this would have been done decades ago.

 

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Let's see what happens when they run out of the red books that they printed in 1927 and are still distrubuting,

[Maestro]

  On 4/1/2025 at 11:01 AM, anthonyT said:

Would anyone know if the new Thailand Digital Arrival Card  is required to be filled in by PR holders?

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Latest information is here:

https://aseannow.com/topic/1356064-thailand-digital-arrival-card-tdac-system-is-online-but-not-announced-as-starting-yet/page/8/#findComment-19709723

 

  Quote

...It will have Thailand as a choice in country of residence too 

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[pietro998]

I am married with baby on the way, if I change to marriage visa, how long to wait in order to be eligible to apply for PR. Is it regular 3 years or lower if I have child and married? and what is the necessary income I need to have.

Can my wife employ me with some low wage in order to be eligible? how much is that? is 20-30k enough?

[Maestro]

  On 4/4/2025 at 4:01 PM, pietro998 said:

I am married with baby on the way, if I change to marriage visa, how long to wait in order to be eligible to apply for PR...

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Change from what to PR?

[pietro998]

  On 4/4/2025 at 5:11 PM, Maestro said:

 

Change from what to PR?

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Sorry for not being clear. I plan to get married visa soon. how long do i have to stay on this marriage visa in order to apply for PR assuming we have a child? and how much income do I need to have in order to apply for the PR under the humanitarian category. I wondered if there is lower requirement if we have children together. My wife is taking care of me financially since it is complicated to get a job so i was curious, but she has business so she can give me some work perhaps to fulfill that requirement.

 

[mortenaa]

  On 4/4/2025 at 3:31 PM, Maestro said:

 

Latest information is here:

https://aseannow.com/topic/1356064-thailand-digital-arrival-card-tdac-system-is-online-but-not-announced-as-starting-yet/page/8/#findComment-19709723

 

 

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So does that mean PR's have to do this? 

[Ericccbk]

  On 4/4/2025 at 3:31 PM, Maestro said:

 

Latest information is here:

https://aseannow.com/topic/1356064-thailand-digital-arrival-card-tdac-system-is-online-but-not-announced-as-starting-yet/page/8/#findComment-19709723

 

 

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Will PR holders still be eligible to use the Thai passport lanes for entry? I was once advised to use foreigner’s lane at Don Muang airport last December, despite having argued that I have a PR. 

[Maestro]

  On 4/5/2025 at 9:09 AM, mortenaa said:

So does that mean PR's have to do this? 

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Yes.

[Maestro]

  On 4/5/2025 at 11:41 AM, Ericccbk said:

Will PR holders still be eligible to use the Thai passport lanes for entry? I was once advised to use foreigner’s lane at Don Muang airport last December, despite having argued that I have a PR. 

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So far, the TDAC procedures have made no mention of the immigration lanes to be used by particular categories of foreigners.

[onthemoon]

  On 4/5/2025 at 11:41 AM, Ericccbk said:

Will PR holders still be eligible to use the Thai passport lanes for entry? I was once advised to use foreigner’s lane at Don Muang airport last December, despite having argued that I have a PR. 

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At Suvarnabhumi, you can always use the Thai passport lanes. At Don Mueang, I was also asked to use the foreigners' lane but successfully persuaded the officer to not reject me after I had stood a long time in the Thai and, and the foreigners' lane was much longer (it was the end of a long holiday).

 

So, the good question is: Is it written down somewhere that PR holders can use the Thai lane? Or does immigration at DMK make their own rules?

[jayboy]

  On 4/5/2025 at 3:16 PM, Maestro said:

So far, the TDAC procedures have made no mention of the immigration lanes to be used by particular categories of foreigners.

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Why on earth should they? They have nothing to do with how Immigration processes arrivals at Thailand entry points.

[scorecard]

  On 4/5/2025 at 11:41 AM, Ericccbk said:

Will PR holders still be eligible to use the Thai passport lanes for entry? I was once advised to use foreigner’s lane at Don Muang airport last December, despite having argued that I have a PR. 

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I suspect that not all immigration officers (regardless of airport) are fully aware of these items. And I suspect that's mostly because they are not actual regulations, just convenience. 

 

Many years ago at DM airport (Suv. not yet built) I was asked to change from the foreigners line to the Thai line the very first time I re-entered Thailand after gaining PR. Coincidence I'm sure.

 

At that time the immigration officer mentioned that the officers manning the Thai arrival were more knowledgeable about such things and processing would be quicker. 

Also, at that time the Thai line had just a few arrivals waiting to get stamped in, whereas  several very long foreigners lines waiting to be stamped in.

 

I had just joined the end of a foreigners line when the immigration officer approached me and spoke quietly and told me 'much quicker if you change to the Thai line' and he took me arm and escorted me to the Thai line. 

 

Then some confusion, instantly many foreigners changed to the Thai line and the Immigration officer had to tell them 'cannot, you must use the foreign passports line'. 

 

Passport officer also said 'every time you enter Thailand show your PR book and passport and join the Thai arrivals line. That's nearly 3 decades ago. 

 

 

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

  On 4/4/2025 at 7:33 PM, pietro998 said:

Sorry for not being clear. I plan to get married visa soon. how long do i have to stay on this marriage visa in order to apply for PR assuming we have a child? and how much income do I need to have in order to apply for the PR under the humanitarian category. I wondered if there is lower requirement if we have children together. My wife is taking care of me financially since it is complicated to get a job so i was curious, but she has business so she can give me some work perhaps to fulfill that requirement.

 

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I don't think the humanitarian category is a viable route to PR unless there are very exceptional circumstances.

 

You'll need three years of work and paying personal income tax. I think the minimum salary for those married to a Thai is 30,000 baht per month. Your wife's business will need to have a minimum of four Thai employees in order to get a work permit for a foreigner and will have to be registered and pay tax, too.

 

Lots of information available on the interwebs from law firms specializing in helping foreigners obtain PR.

[scorecard]

  On 4/6/2025 at 3:07 AM, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

 

I don't think the humanitarian category is a viable route to PR unless there are very exceptional circumstances.

 

You'll need three years of work and paying personal income tax. I think the minimum salary for those married to a Thai is 30,000 baht per month. Your wife's business will need to have a minimum of four Thai employees in order to get a work permit for a foreigner and will have to be registered and pay tax, too.

 

Lots of information available on the interwebs from law firms specializing in helping foreigners obtain PR.

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And the job / position stated on the WP cannot be a work classification reserved for Thai citizens.  

 

The list of work classifications reserved for Thai nationals is clearly / specifically stated in the WP regulations and is well known to all law firms. 

[Maestro]

  On 4/6/2025 at 2:51 AM, jayboy said:

 

Why on earth should they? They have nothing to do with how Immigration processes arrivals at Thailand entry points.

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Precisely.

[pietro998]

  On 4/6/2025 at 3:07 AM, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

 

I don't think the humanitarian category is a viable route to PR unless there are very exceptional circumstances.

 

You'll need three years of work and paying personal income tax. I think the minimum salary for those married to a Thai is 30,000 baht per month. Your wife's business will need to have a minimum of four Thai employees in order to get a work permit for a foreigner and will have to be registered and pay tax, too.

 

Lots of information available on the interwebs from law firms specializing in helping foreigners obtain PR.

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she can hire more people that is not issue, and giving me some IT or whatever position should always work right? she could use my help with many things so it could at least be official

why is the humanitarian category not a viable route if we are married, have children (1 or 2)? the investment and other categories seem too brutal 😄 

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

  On 4/7/2025 at 7:02 AM, pietro998 said:

she can hire more people that is not issue, and giving me some IT or whatever position should always work right? she could use my help with many things so it could at least be official

why is the humanitarian category not a viable route if we are married, have children (1 or 2)? the investment and other categories seem too brutal 😄 

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Best check with one of the firms that specialize in helping people obtain PR. They would be able to evaluate your situation and give their opinion on your chances and whether the humanitarian category would be viable. 

 

 

 

 

[scorecard]

  On 4/7/2025 at 7:02 AM, pietro998 said:

she can hire more people that is not issue, and giving me some IT or whatever position should always work right? she could use my help with many things so it could at least be official

why is the humanitarian category not a viable route if we are married, have children (1 or 2)? the investment and other categories seem too brutal 😄 

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OK but don't assume an IT position would be accepted as suitable. There's hundreds of thousands of trained / experienced Thai IT workers.

 

However 'IT' could mean a lot of things.

 

I wonder if you're assuming that married with kids satisfies a primary requirement.

 

It's not that simple. 

[Jangunnim]

  On 4/7/2025 at 7:02 AM, pietro998 said:

she can hire more people that is not issue, and giving me some IT or whatever position should always work right? she could use my help with many things so it could at least be official

why is the humanitarian category not a viable route if we are married, have children (1 or 2)? the investment and other categories seem too brutal 😄 

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I am sorry but I am almost sure that this is not going to cut it. I don’t know anyone that got it through that category, might as well not exist. Basically the way is to work for real Thai company and that is how 99% will do it, you will be required to provide confidential company documents also to verify they are paying taxes etc. and also that the company is not created solely for you to get PR.

 

There is a lot to criticize these decades old Thai laws about but not handing out PRs in the same way many western countries have done is good. Walk around some cities in Western Europe and you will see the results of printing PRs and citizenships to every living soul, or in the UK for that matter. Frankly i wouldn’t let more than half of the foreigners in Thailand anywhere near any permanent status.

 

For you the choice is to basically get a job in Thai company which might be doable because the salary limit for married people is very low. 

[scorecard]

  On 4/25/2025 at 11:19 AM, Jangunnim said:

I am sorry but I am almost sure that this is not going to cut it. I don’t know anyone that got it through that category, might as well not exist. Basically the way is to work for real Thai company and that is how 99% will do it, you will be required to provide confidential company documents also to verify they are paying taxes etc. and also that the company is not created solely for you to get PR.

 

There is a lot to criticize these decades old Thai laws about but not handing out PRs in the same way many western countries have done is good. Walk around some cities in Western Europe and you will see the results of printing PRs and citizenships to every living soul, or in the UK for that matter. Frankly i wouldn’t let more than half of the foreigners in Thailand anywhere near any permanent status.

 

For you the choice is to basically get a job in Thai company which might be doable because the salary limit for married people is very low. 

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From just above:  "...Frankly i wouldn’t let more than half of the foreigners in Thailand anywhere near any permanent status.'

 

I've had PR for approaching 28 years. Several times foreigners (most I had never met before) approached me / called me asking me to give them a recommendation letter, believing that a recommendation letter (just the letter) from current PR would give them instant PR. 

 

I never ever considered writing / giving such a letter because:

- I had never met the person.

- I support the criteris for several years of work permits which also means making a contribution to the development of Thailand.

 

(I submitted my PR application and a wad of support documentation. 220 - 30 minutes later I was being interviewed by a senior Immigration general who soke perfect English.

 

Early in the interview he mentioned he would need to talk to about 3 of my Thai staff and ask them what they were learning from me. He also indicated this was because contributing to the development of Thailand was a critical factor to gain approval and he wanted direct comments from my staff highlighting this item.

 

Later he made the calls (all on speakerphone) and he spoke to about 3 of my staff, each one for 10 to 15 minutes.

 

When these calls were finished he said he needed 10 minutes to complete his notes. He then said I'm impressed with the comments from your staff and your attitude to this item and I will use this as a major reason to recommend that you are approved for PR. 

[NativeBob]

  On 4/25/2025 at 11:19 AM, Jangunnim said:

I am sorry but I am almost sure that this is not going to cut it. I don’t know anyone that got it through that category, might as well not exist.

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Over last 3 decades I haven't met any successful case of PR for working more than 3 years. Probably due to the types of Co.Ltd. But at least 5 guys tried hard to get it and they all failed.

2 guys paid <deleted> load of money to "agents". Failed sama-same. 

However one old chap from UK got it (I think he didn't even sweat) with endorsement from KMUTT. Ph.D

[Celsius]

  On 4/25/2025 at 12:05 PM, NativeBob said:

Over last 3 decades I haven't met any successful case of PR for working more than 3 years. Probably due to the types of Co.Ltd. But at least 5 guys tried hard to get it and they all failed.

2 guys paid <deleted> load of money to "agents". Failed sama-same. 

However one old chap from UK got it (I think he didn't even sweat) with endorsement from KMUTT. Ph.D

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My wife's ex boss from Taiwan paid 1 million and got it.

 

My wife asked me if I want it since it is much cheaper than elite card and I politely declined because wtf I need this for.

 

I can now say these things and more because IDGAF as I don't live in Thailand anymore 

[scorecard]

  On 4/25/2025 at 12:05 PM, NativeBob said:

Over last 3 decades I haven't met any successful case of PR for working more than 3 years. Probably due to the types of Co.Ltd. But at least 5 guys tried hard to get it and they all failed.

2 guys paid <deleted> load of money to "agents". Failed sama-same. 

However one old chap from UK got it (I think he didn't even sweat) with endorsement from KMUTT. Ph.D

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Sorry but can you please clarify:

1. Are you saying that working with a work permit MORE than 3 years is a negative to gaining PR?

 

2. Can you please share how having a Ph.D. can be a route to gaining PR. 

 

[NativeBob]

  On 4/25/2025 at 12:11 PM, Celsius said:

I can now say these things and more because IDGAF as I don't live in Thailand anymore 

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Nice!

I also heard stories like this "he paid 1M and got it", even mentioning governor of one of the provinces. But as one Uzbek mogul said - "I'll give you 1.5M just get it to me!" and that was end of the story.
We all know the guy who knows the guy ... 

[scorecard]

  On 4/25/2025 at 12:18 PM, NativeBob said:

Nice!

I also heard stories like this "he paid 1M and got it", even mentioning governor of one of the provinces. But as one Uzbek mogul said - "I'll give you 1.5M just get it to me!" and that was end of the story.
We all know the guy who knows the guy ... 

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  On 4/25/2025 at 12:18 PM, NativeBob said:

Nice!

I also heard stories like this "he paid 1M and got it", even mentioning governor of one of the provinces. But as one Uzbek mogul said - "I'll give you 1.5M just get it to me!" and that was end of the story.
We all know the guy who knows the guy ... 

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 Anybody can claim that. In my own case I went through the published process. I never offered any bribe or whatever and none was suggested / hinted by the PR immigration officers.

 

And can you please share more re your comment about Ph.D. and KMU, and how that relates to PR. Thanks.

[Jangunnim]

I know many people who got PR in my company and few in the process of getting citizenship but that queue is long as hell right now.

 

They all went through the official process and gathered the documents, the agents were useless. But the company I am at is very reputable and salaries are generally at least 150k for foreigners.

 

All applied either through the work pathway or the family BUT still fulfill the work conditions obviously 

[onthemoon]

  On 4/25/2025 at 12:05 PM, NativeBob said:

Over last 3 decades I haven't met any successful case of PR for working more than 3 years. Probably due to the types of Co.Ltd. But at least 5 guys tried hard to get it and they all failed.

2 guys paid <deleted> load of money to "agents". Failed sama-same. 

However one old chap from UK got it (I think he didn't even sweat) with endorsement from KMUTT. Ph.D

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I applied successfully under the business category (starting with the 3-year work permit) and don't see why you would say that everybody would fail. To the contrary, this is the most popular way to do it, I'd say, as everybody I personally know who got PR used that option.

 

I didn't have my yet PhD back then, but I believe it gives you a higher score for education. At least it does for citizenship applications. Nothing to do with the "power" of any particular institution, but a very transparent point system. It does not matter where you graduated, as long as it is an accredited university. I bet your "old chap" did not get an endorsement letter, he just presented his degree. If the uni also wrote a letter, they will have ignored it.

 

No, I did not pay "speed-up money". What for? I never saw a reason for it. Lawyers can't do anything anyway, and rumours are that they pocked a big chunk of the money paid without receipt themselves. They cannot make you pass if you don't meet the criteria - for which you don't need a lawyer.