Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[SteveB2]

15 minutes ago, blokker said:

 

Is it Ok for Immigration if the legalized and translated educational degrees are more than 6 months old? That would save a lot of hassle.

 

 

There is no problem of 'going out of date' for the translation of educational degrees.

 

It was the European Criminal Record background check only that they attached a time limit to... 

[blokker]

2 hours ago, SteveB2 said:

 

There is no problem of 'going out of date' for the translation of educational degrees.

 

It was the European Criminal Record background check only that they attached a time limit to... 

 

Thanks!   Good that the education docs can be re-used at least

[zaphod reborn]

The application window was supposed to open on October 1 this year.  However, it has not opened yet.  I suspect that the cremation ceremonies may have something to do with this.  Does anyone have info about when the application window will open this year?

[Bangel72]

Have PR holders just lost their right to own a gun in Thailand?

[Arkady]

6 hours ago, Bangel72 said:

Have PR holders just lost their right to own a gun in Thailand?

 

Yes. Another privilege of PR just hit the dirt. Existing foreign gun permit holders should be able to keep their firearms, since laws are seldom retroactive in Thailand and the regular Por 4 permits to own and use a gun for protection of life and property or sport (but not carry a concealed weapon) are valid for as long as the holder owns the gun.  However, foreigners will no longer be eligible to apply for permits as soon as the amendments to the 1947 Firearms Act are published in the Royal Gazette within 90 days of its third and final reading yesterday.  The existing law makes no mention of nationality but excludes applicants without a permanent address, occupation or income.  In the case of foreigners permanent address  was interpreted as a blue tabien baan which made foreigners with PR and a work permit eligible, at least in Bangkok.  Provincial governors outside Bangkok are free to impose stricter conditions according to the situation in their province and many, if not most, have chose for some time to exclude foreigners completely.  I know that gun ownership is not of interest to all PR holders but many, including myself, have availed themselves of this privilege in the past. 

 

[mortenaa]

On 10/10/2017 at 9:47 AM, blokker said:

 

Many thanks for the info!! And congratulations with your PR. Great example to see people stick through all the BS and secure their place here, without 90-day reporting, and exposure to ever changing visa requirements,  etc ... .

 

>> The legalisation of documents such as a degree certificate, divorce certificate, for PR now requires an 'Apostille' to be attached

 

Thanks once more. Good to know, as the rubber stamp track back in Europe is different for the Apostille. It's odd though that they require it at Immigration, as Thailand is not a member of the Apostille conventions itself??

https://www.hcch.net/en/instruments/conventions/authorities1/?cid=41

 

>> Be careful with the criminal background record check - the CW-PR group will only accept it if it under 6 months old

 

Pain in the indeed. Thanks!

Is it Ok for Immigration if the legalized and translated educational degrees are more than 6 months old? That would save a lot of hassle.

 

>> A decade ago, a good friend had a heart attack and died on the same day he was issued with with PR. I think the strain had been just too much for him.

 

Yeah, a good reminder not to take it too serious. At the end of the day it's just a matter of checking all the boxes on that long list. One at a time.

I dont know about Holland, but for Norway, I just went to a the Norwegian police website, applied for my records. The arrived in the mail a couple of weeks later. For other documents and certification with the embassy, a translation company did it for me. For me, applying  for PR wasn't that hard at all.

[Michael Hare]

1 hour ago, mortenaa said:

I dont know about Holland, but for Norway, I just went to a the Norwegian police website, applied for my records. The arrived in the mail a couple of weeks later. For other documents and certification with the embassy, a translation company did it for me. For me, applying  for PR wasn't that hard at all.

 

Completely agree. For me, from New Zealand, the police report etc were easy. Getting the Thai police report from the local police here in Ubon Ratchathani took a little time. Also a delay with my Thai income tax documents which I supplied copies of, but then all these needed to be stamped again by the local tax office as verified. The translation of all documents, I mean ALL, from my passport, birth certificate, CV, university degrees etc took time. Nothing, and I mean nothing, was accepted unless it was translated into Thai.

 

All together it took me about 6 months to get all the documents and translations together. Then it took four trips to Bangkok for interviews. The second time was with my wife and son for interviews. The third time for language tests and finger printing.

 

Finally, after 30 months I was sent a letter saying every thing  was okay and I needed to come to Bangkok for the final process and needed to show the last month of payment of tax documents. Bring 96,000 baht for the PR payment. I read through the list, got all documents ready, rang the office in Bangkok and they said it would only take a couple of hours, booked a return day flight and flew down. 

 

Arrived at about 10 am and into a new office which I had not seen before. First desk okay. All documents were in order. At the second desk the police lady suddenly asked where my wife was. I said at home in Ubon. She said that my wife must be with me as I was applying for PR as married to a Thai. I replied that this was not on the list sent to me. She answered that the office which issued the letter didn't know what they were doing. My wife must be there in person. I replied that no way would my wife come to Bangkok, she was dying of cancer and could not travel. I suggested they fly up to Ubon to interview my wife at our home. Much discussion then took place. The big boss police lady came in and asked more questions about why my wife could not come. The boss suddenly asked if I thought I could get everything processed in one day. I said yes. Did I have 96,000 baht in my bag. Yes. This worried them. Was I going out for lunch with 96,000 baht in bag. Yes. 

 

Then it was all action. The time was 11 am. I had been there one hour. They asked to call my wife. They spoke for some time with her. Then they said everything will be processed NOW. I paid over the 96,000 baht. They said please go out and have a good lunch. Return at 1 pm and everything will be completed.

 

And it was. And as I collected my residence permit the lady said that I was a must unusual case. No one had ever been processed in one day. 

 

I am thankful I do not have to go though this process ever again.

 

[skyaslimit]

 
 
And as I collected my residence permit the lady said that I was a must unusual case. No one had ever been processed in one day. 
 

Congrats. Humm....I was processed in 2 hours back in 2012



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[Michael Hare]

10 hours ago, skyaslimit said:

 

Congrats. Humm....I was processed in 2 hours back in 2012



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That was back in 2003

[zaphod reborn]

Does anybody have information about the application window for 2017?  I have been checking since July, and every time I call, they tell me to check back next month.  I called last week, and they told me to check back on 1 December.  I realize they use political events as an excuse to not open the application process, but, now that the Royal mourning period has ended, I see nothing that should prevent them from opening the process.  Also, I am concerned they will use the elections next year as an excuse not to open applications for 2018.  I hope someone has some useful information so that I can plan preparation of my portfolio.  Some of the documents will expire if I prepare them too early.

[Big Guns]

On 10/16/2017 at 7:44 PM, Michael Hare said:

 

Completely agree. For me, from New Zealand, the police report etc were easy. Getting the Thai police report from the local police here in Ubon Ratchathani took a little time. Also a delay with my Thai income tax documents which I supplied copies of, but then all these needed to be stamped again by the local tax office as verified. The translation of all documents, I mean ALL, from my passport, birth certificate, CV, university degrees etc took time. Nothing, and I mean nothing, was accepted unless it was translated into Thai.

 

All together it took me about 6 months to get all the documents and translations together. Then it took four trips to Bangkok for interviews. The second time was with my wife and son for interviews. The third time for language tests and finger printing.

 

Finally, after 30 months I was sent a letter saying every thing  was okay and I needed to come to Bangkok for the final process and needed to show the last month of payment of tax documents. Bring 96,000 baht for the PR payment. I read through the list, got all documents ready, rang the office in Bangkok and they said it would only take a couple of hours, booked a return day flight and flew down. 

 

Arrived at about 10 am and into a new office which I had not seen before. First desk okay. All documents were in order. At the second desk the police lady suddenly asked where my wife was. I said at home in Ubon. She said that my wife must be with me as I was applying for PR as married to a Thai. I replied that this was not on the list sent to me. She answered that the office which issued the letter didn't know what they were doing. My wife must be there in person. I replied that no way would my wife come to Bangkok, she was dying of cancer and could not travel. I suggested they fly up to Ubon to interview my wife at our home. Much discussion then took place. The big boss police lady came in and asked more questions about why my wife could not come. The boss suddenly asked if I thought I could get everything processed in one day. I said yes. Did I have 96,000 baht in my bag. Yes. This worried them. Was I going out for lunch with 96,000 baht in bag. Yes. 

 

Then it was all action. The time was 11 am. I had been there one hour. They asked to call my wife. They spoke for some time with her. Then they said everything will be processed NOW. I paid over the 96,000 baht. They said please go out and have a good lunch. Return at 1 pm and everything will be completed.

 

And it was. And as I collected my residence permit the lady said that I was a must unusual case. No one had ever been processed in one day. 

 

I am thankful I do not have to go though this process ever again.

 

Why did you apply for PR and not citizenship? It sounds like you're qualified for citizenship. In my case I bypassed PR and went straight for citizenship and got it.

[Michael Hare]

2 minutes ago, Big Guns said:

Why did you apply for PR and not citizenship? It sounds like you're qualified for citizenship. In my case I bypassed PR and went straight for citizenship and got it.

I have never been really interested in becoming a Thai citizen. A bit like my late wife when she lived for nearly 20 years in NZ as a NZ permanent resident. Never wanted to become a New Zealander. When I applied for PR back in 2001, I never gave a thought to becoming a Thai citizen. And now, here I am, still here in Ubon, owning an agricultural seed company and pretty happy staying as a PR. If I could become a Thai citizen by getting all the paper work and interviews done in Ubon, then I may consider it. I will have to look into it. I can't be bothered stuffing around government departments in Bangkok. 

[Arkady]

2 hours ago, Michael Hare said:

I have never been really interested in becoming a Thai citizen. A bit like my late wife when she lived for nearly 20 years in NZ as a NZ permanent resident. Never wanted to become a New Zealander. When I applied for PR back in 2001, I never gave a thought to becoming a Thai citizen. And now, here I am, still here in Ubon, owning an agricultural seed company and pretty happy staying as a PR. If I could become a Thai citizen by getting all the paper work and interviews done in Ubon, then I may consider it. I will have to look into it. I can't be bothered stuffing around government departments in Bangkok. 

Theoretically you could get it all done in Ubon, except for the interview with the MoI at Lamlukka.  However, it seems that the police are unable or unwilling to process applications in provinces except the ones with large foreign communities like Chonburi and Phuket. People in Isaan usuallly give up trying locally when they realise they are going nowhere and have to move their tabien baan to Bangkok and do all the meetings there, if they wish to continue.  If PR works for you, may as well stick with it.  

[beeper]

Having been awarded PR earlier this year and having completed the process with Alien book, Tabien baan, Residence book, re-entry permit, etc, this coming week i am getting a brand new passport.

 

How do I go about it updating everything regarding my PR

Just go to CW with old and new PP, Alien book, residence book, letter from embassy on new passport? what other docs do i need? how long does it take? I need to travel in 1 week. does it cost anything? 

 

Thanks for your advice here       

[thedemon]

3 hours ago, beeper said:

Having been awarded PR earlier this year and having completed the process with Alien book, Tabien baan, Residence book, re-entry permit, etc, this coming week i am getting a brand new passport.

 

How do I go about it updating everything regarding my PR

Just go to CW with old and new PP, Alien book, residence book, letter from embassy on new passport? what other docs do i need? how long does it take? I need to travel in 1 week. does it cost anything? 

 

Thanks for your advice here       

 

You don't need to do anything. The re-entry/endorsement is still valid in your old passport so you just carry that when you travel.

 

When your current re-entry is up for renewal it will be stamped in your new passport.

[beeper]

Thanks. I assume CW will want to include the details of my new valid passport in my file in their systems. Also I would like my new passport in there so I can pass through the automatic immigration gates at Suvarnabhumi. The old one will be invalidated


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[KevT]

I have a  few questions.

 

• How much does proficiency in Thai weigh in the decision (such as being fluent, speaking and writing)?
• Does having a bachelor's/master's degree make a significant difference?
• What about a master's degree at a Thai university?
• Is there a way to reduce the minimum salary from 80K/month to lower?
• Approximately how many actually get accepted out of the mentioned 100 per nationality—is it actually a lot more difficult to get PR than how "100 per nationality" sounds?
   

Edited December 3, 2017 by KevT

[Jujus]

They have a points system. You need at least 50 points out of 100 points to pass.

 

• A good level of Thai language gives you more points (up to around 10, but I'm not entirely sure about how many points are allocated to it).
• Same thing for your degree: the higher, the better.
• I don't think that graduating from a Thai university makes a difference (but that's a personal opinion, I don't know for sure).
• No way to reduce the minimum salary requirement. It is what it is.
• As for how many people get accepted per nationality, or how many apply each year, no idea, such information is not disclosed (or at least I'm not aware of it).

All in all, each criteria doesn't make a huge difference by itself, as each of them matters almost equally (how long you've been living in Thailand, are you married, what's your contribution to the Thai society, etc.). Consider the whole process a background check, determining your worth as a Thai resident.

[THAIJAMES]

They only allow 100 per country.   Normally only Chinese and Indians need to worry about this maximum as usually the number applying each year is very limited per country.   The year I applied for PR there was only 8 persons from the USA.

Edited December 4, 2017 by THAIJAMES
clarification

[Arkady]

As far as I know there is no points system publicly disclosed for PR where you have to get 50 out of 100.  That system is for nationality and some people assume Immigration has a similar system for PR.  Possibly they have an internal system like that that is not disclosed.  I assume that PR, like nationality, which is also administered by the same part of the Interior Ministry, DOPA, is a tick the box system.  That means that, if you tick all the boxes on the publicly disclosed or secret lists, you get through.  For nationality getting 50 out of 100 points is one of the boxes you have to tick.  For PR you need to meet the requirements for uninterrupted time on a work permit, tax receipts, pass the Thai language interview, earn whatever the minimum salary is according to, I think, the internal guidelines (generally believed to be 80k, which is the same as for citizenship without a Thai wife) etc.  I don't know if there are really any minimum educational educational requirements and I don't believe that someone with a decent job but no degree would be rejected.  But that is an example where you might be able to compensate for only having a high school education by earning a higher salary.  In most cases, though, you just need to tick all the boxes.  What I mean is that speaking Thai really well will not normally make much difference compared to someone who can just pass the interview test and having a PhD from a Thai university will not normally make any difference compared to someone with a bachelor's degree from a farang university.  

 

Another area which many people believe is really important for getting PR is having a Thai wife and kids.  They like to make out this important and subject applicants with Thai families to lots of additional scrutiny to check that their marriages are genuine and their kids are really theirs.  But the truth is that an applicant who has a Thai family has very little or no advantage over someone who is either single or married to another foreigner with otherwise the same qualifications.  The extra scrutiny of your marriage seems really only make sure that people don't get away with the married discount when they don't deserve it.   

 

Of course, there is also the essay for PR saying what you think your contribution to Thai society is and why you deserve PR.  I think this is a soft qualification where it is impossible set minimum requirements. I would guess it is like an exam where you pass, if you show up and write your name and number at the top of the paper and write something that is not totally half-baked or profane.  I have heard of people getting through who said their contribution to Thai society was merely having a Thai wife and kids, as if the dried up mandarins at the Interior Ministry would really think that was something out of the ordinary in Thailand.        

[ubonjoe]

The government still has not set the quotas or what period they will be accepting applications this year. Maybe they will get it done at the cabinet meeting this week.

Last year they did it in August and the applications were accepted from September 1st to December 29th.

[Arkady]

32 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

The government still has not set the quotas or what period they will be accepting applications this year. Maybe they will get it done at the cabinet meeting this week.

Last year they did it in August and the applications were accepted from September 1st to December 29th.

 

It's a shame they have not followed up on last year's good intentions.  For anyone preparing to apply this year, don't give up hope yet.  When they set an application date in the latter half of December they have in the past extended the deadline to end January to give breathing space to those going away for the holidays.   

[Jujus]

2 hours ago, Arkady said:

As far as I know there is no points system publicly disclosed for PR where you have to get 50 out of 100.  That system is for nationality and some people assume Immigration has a similar system for PR.  Possibly they have an internal system like that that is not disclosed.      

I have been told so when I got mine... Whether it's an official points system or an undisclosed internal one like you suggest, that I do not know.

[Arkady]

49 minutes ago, Jujus said:

I have been told so when I got mine... Whether it's an official points system or an undisclosed internal one like you suggest, that I do not know.

 

If it were official, they would publish the criteria for points allocation openly and you would be told how many points you got, as is the case with citizenship. 

[Michael Hare]

When I got my PR 14 years ago, the most important factor was paying ones income tax every year. Thai language did not seem to be a consideration. 

[Arkady]

1 hour ago, Michael Hare said:

When I got my PR 14 years ago, the most important factor was paying ones income tax every year. Thai language did not seem to be a consideration. 

The Thai language requirement was only introduced in the early or mid 2000s, perhaps soon after you applied. It started off as a simple multiple choice test that could easily be passed by someone with negligible knowledge of Thai but later morphed into a full blown panel interview.  Curiously the tax language requirement was dropped entirely for citizenship in the case of males with a Thai wife in 2008.  So, if you can't speak Thai and have a Thai wife, applying for citizenship is a better bet than PR as well as cheaper. 

 

Certainly the submission of personal income tax receipts is an important requirement.

[zaphod reborn]

On 12/4/2017 at 8:57 PM, Arkady said:

The Thai language requirement was only introduced in the early or mid 2000s, perhaps soon after you applied. It started off as a simple multiple choice test that could easily be passed by someone with negligible knowledge of Thai but later morphed into a full blown panel interview.  Curiously the tax language requirement was dropped entirely for citizenship in the case of males with a Thai wife in 2008.  So, if you can't speak Thai and have a Thai wife, applying for citizenship is a better bet than PR as well as cheaper. 

 

Certainly the submission of personal income tax receipts is an important requirement.

Could someone provide some detail as to the type of questions that arise during the Thai language portion of the interview.  I assume that it is standard social conversation (ie, where are you from, what is your job, how long have you lived in Thailand, are you married, do you have children, etc.).  I need to locate a tutor to assist someone to pass the Thai language interview section, so any help in this regard is appreciated.

 

On 12/4/2017 at 1:57 PM, Arkady said:

 

It's a shame they have not followed up on last year's good intentions.  For anyone preparing to apply this year, don't give up hope yet.  When they set an application date in the latter half of December they have in the past extended the deadline to end January to give breathing space to those going away for the holidays.   

The application process opened this year on December 1, so it is a very short window, assuming it closes at the end of the month.

[ubonjoe]

10 minutes ago, zaphod reborn said:

The application process opened this year on December 1, so it is a very short window, assuming it closes at the end of the month.

As far as I know it has not been opened yet this year. 

Nothing in the news and no announcement on the immigration website.

[zaphod reborn]

4 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

As far as I know it has not been opened yet this year. 

Nothing in the news and no announcement on the immigration website.

I work with an agent on PR matters.  He told me yesterday, when I was at the One Stop Service Center, that the PR application process opened this month.  He's pretty "in" with immigration, so it is possible it hasn't even been announced yet.

[ubonjoe]

27 minutes ago, zaphod reborn said:

He's pretty "in" with immigration, so it is possible it hasn't even been announced yet.

Immigration does not determine the starting dates. The cabinet sets the quotas and application dates which normally makes the news. Immigration has always been diligent in posting the dates when it they are set.

You could go to Chaeng Wattana immigration and ask them about it.