Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[scorecard]

On 3/29/2020 at 3:05 PM, Arkady said:

Permanent residents should have a prior claim over people on temporary visas with work permits. I agree that  PRs without work permits have been overlooked in drafting the regulations and I doubt that most Thai embassy staff abroad are familiar with PR, since they normally have nothing to do with it.  Who would normally carry their WP with them overseas anyway, specially if you have PR?

 

China has been more specific in actually prohibiting entry by foreingers with residence visas whcih are much harder to obtain than Thai PR. Tough luck for anyone who doesn't have anywhere else to live and is stranded away from family.

I confirm '...and I doubt that most Thai embassy staff abroad are familiar with PR, since they normally have nothing to do with it. ...' A couple of weeks ago I e-mailed the Thai embassy in Sydney. A very pleasant intelligent young Thai lady called, perfect English and said ''nobody here knows anything about Thai PR, can you please give me more information.

 

I did that and she reacted 'now I understand what you mean and I'm aware of foreigners getting PR for Australia and Singapore but I didn't know it existed for Thailand'.

 

 

[Michael Hare]

7 minutes ago, scorecard said:

'...the old red-brown PR book...'  I wonder is you mean the red police registration book which you must get updated after first 1 year then every 5 years?

That is right. But my book is not red. A very faded red that it looks like a brown colour. It was like that when I first got it. They must have printed a pile of these books 100 years ago and they have been sitting in a cupboard somewhere at the police station. The binding comes unstuck easily. 

[onthemoon]

57 minutes ago, GabbaGabbaHey said:

Last month I renewed my driving license in BKK and thought I could go without the passport, I almost succeeded with Pink ID card actually, just at the last minute to receive my license I was asked to read and sign my information and the form said "Nationality: Thai" (due to PR side-effect I guess) I told I was not Thai citizen to which the answer was "Ok, can you show me your passport?" - fair enough. That's actually one clear limitation of the pink ID: it doesn't say anything about your nationality. 

My pink ID card says that I am not Thai... but you are right, it does not show my nationality.

[Arkady]

2 hours ago, Michael Hare said:

In Ubon they were not interested in the pink ID card. They didn't even want copies. It was the blue tabian baan book and the old red-brown PR book that they inspected closely and wanted signed copies of every page (which I had). The latter is what the big boss said was most important. 

 

It is not surprising they are not interested in the pink card.  It is nothing to do with PR.  They are designed for stateless people which is why they say you can't leave your district without permission on them. They are only issued to PRs as a by-product of the 2008 amendment to the Civil Registration Act that requires district offices to register everyone including foreigners and stateless persons residing in their districts and issue them identification.  They are now also issued to foreigners on NON-B visas and marriage and retirement extensions. Also for ID but not a document that shows your immigration status like red book.

[Arkady]

2 hours ago, Michael Hare said:

That is right. But my book is not red. A very faded red that it looks like a brown colour. It was like that when I first got it. They must have printed a pile of these books 100 years ago and they have been sitting in a cupboard somewhere at the police station. The binding comes unstuck easily. 

They were red when they printed massive stocks after they were first issued following the original 1927 Immigration Act for the thousands of Chinese coolies that were coming off the boats every year then. The glue was in better condition then too. Since the flow of coolies dried up and they made it hard to get PR, it may take a few more decades to use up the stocks and issue some kind of smart card to PRs.

[mortenaa]

20 hours ago, GabbaGabbaHey said:

Last month I renewed my driving license in BKK and thought I could go without the passport, I almost succeeded with Pink ID card actually, just at the last minute to receive my license I was asked to read and sign my information and the form said "Nationality: Thai" (due to PR side-effect I guess) I told I was not Thai citizen to which the answer was "Ok, can you show me your passport?" - fair enough. That's actually one clear limitation of the pink ID: it doesn't say anything about your nationality. 

There is another one (at least with mine) - it doesn't tell your name in ENGLISH, only with Thai letters. I've sometime used it for hotels etc, and they are looking very confused every time, and I have to spell out my name in English every time. 

[mortenaa]

21 hours ago, Michael Hare said:

The problem with passports is they have a limited life and with each new one, a new number is issued. When I clicked in to listen to the on-line seminar about traffic rules etc (compulsory) I used my ID number. Therefore my ID number was in the system. I also took in hard copes of all the books so they could see that the Tabian Baan was a blue book and not a yellow book. But as you say it is not that important. A few years ago I lost my ATM card and when I reported it to the bank they wanted to see the passport that I opened my account number with, which was more than 20 years and three passports ago. After some discussion my new ATM card was issued. Since then, I have changed all my bank accounts over to my ID card. So at any branch of this bank, I only have to show my ID for transactions. 

Never had a problem with the bank and new passport number. They will just update it on the spot. Luckily my passport lasts for 10 years, so not a big issue for me. I think I will wait for my Thai citizenship before I go "all in" ????

[Dogmatix]

19 minutes ago, mortenaa said:

There is another one (at least with mine) - it doesn't tell your name in ENGLISH, only with Thai letters. I've sometime used it for hotels etc, and they are looking very confused every time, and I have to spell out my name in English every time. 

The pink card is certainly a very marginal type of ID card. They probably didn't think English letters would be needed for its original intended use for stateless persons and it would create a headache for officials to figure out English spellings for people they regard as non-persons anyway.  For PRs it's just a toy you can play with while waiting for your blue ID card.

[onthemoon]

19 minutes ago, mortenaa said:

There is another one (at least with mine) - it doesn't tell your name in ENGLISH, only with Thai letters. I've sometime used it for hotels etc, and they are looking very confused every time, and I have to spell out my name in English every time. 

I agree that this is a problem. Also at airline check-in.

 

The pink ID card should be bilingual (like the Thai ID card), have a chip, and should also show the nationality of the bearer. Furthermore, I should not state on the back that the bearer must stay in their district, if not applicable. In fact, the ID card for PR holders should be different from non-PR holders. 

 

Alas, I don't think they will change that anytime soon.

[carlyai]

Can you still apply for PR if you currently don't have a work permit, but previously had one and met all the tax etc criteria? 

I've been putting this off until I get some spare time and seem to remember that if you get the details from companies you have worked for then you can still apply for PR.

[Michael Hare]

26 minutes ago, mortenaa said:

There is another one (at least with mine) - it doesn't tell your name in ENGLISH, only with Thai letters. I've sometime used it for hotels etc, and they are looking very confused every time, and I have to spell out my name in English every time. 

Since I received my pink ID card 9 years ago, I use it in place of my passport everywhere in Thailand. Domestic air-travel, hotels and banking. In fact everywhere, where identification is needed. Hotels in Thailand really like it, as my home address is clearly printed on it. 

[onthemoon]

1 minute ago, Michael Hare said:

Since I received my pink ID card 9 years ago, I use it in place of my passport everywhere in Thailand. Domestic air-travel, hotels and banking. In fact everywhere, where identification is needed. Hotels in Thailand really like it, as my home address is clearly printed on it. 

Hotels need it, because if they key in your passport number, they also need to key in the TM number. All my bankers love it too.

It was difficult at air travel for me, because they couldn't confirm the spelling - I now use my driver's licence for domestic flights.

[Arkady]

1 hour ago, carlyai said:

Can you still apply for PR if you currently don't have a work permit, but previously had one and met all the tax etc criteria? 

I've been putting this off until I get some spare time and seem to remember that if you get the details from companies you have worked for then you can still apply for PR.

Unfortunately not.  You need to have a current work permit and to have been working three years without a break with three years' salary tax receipts. You can change jobs within the three year qualifying period, if there is no break, but I believe that nowadays they require you to be in the same job for at least one year before you apply. 

[GabbaGabbaHey]

1 hour ago, onthemoon said:

Hotels need it, because if they key in your passport number, they also need to key in the TM number. All my bankers love it too.

It was difficult at air travel for me, because they couldn't confirm the spelling - I now use my driver's licence for domestic flights.

I agree that the combination of Pink ID and Driving license together is great since it has name in Thai, address in Thailand, ID number and name in English. We are just missing the nationality. I can confirm that with this duo I never had to show my passport to hotel check-in in Thailand for many years.

[Michael Hare]

3 hours ago, onthemoon said:

Hotels need it, because if they key in your passport number, they also need to key in the TM number. All my bankers love it too.

It was difficult at air travel for me, because they couldn't confirm the spelling - I now use my driver's licence for domestic flights.

I have no TM number because I start my journey in Thailand. If I gave the hotels my new passport, there would be no record of it in the Thai system anywhere. My new passport (two months old) is completely clean with no stamps in it. Not even a reentry visa because in these times I won't be traveling overseas for many months. Hotels definitely don't need your passport number if one has PR. You can even let your passport expire, as it is only needed if one is going to travel overseas. 

[onthemoon]

52 minutes ago, Michael Hare said:

I have no TM number because I start my journey in Thailand. If I gave the hotels my new passport, there would be no record of it in the Thai system anywhere. My new passport (two months old) is completely clean with no stamps in it. Not even a reentry visa because in these times I won't be traveling overseas for many months. Hotels definitely don't need your passport number if one has PR. You can even let your passport expire, as it is only needed if one is going to travel overseas. 

Right. When I said the hotels need "it", I meant the pink ID card. For exactly the reasons that you mention.

[RAZZELL]

With regards to the criminal record check from your home country will a basic one do? (UK)

 

RAZZ

[Dogmatix]

1 hour ago, Michael Hare said:

I have no TM number because I start my journey in Thailand. If I gave the hotels my new passport, there would be no record of it in the Thai system anywhere. My new passport (two months old) is completely clean with no stamps in it. Not even a reentry visa because in these times I won't be traveling overseas for many months. Hotels definitely don't need your passport number if one has PR. You can even let your passport expire, as it is only needed if one is going to travel overseas. 

 

I can think of a few situations where having a valid passport as a foreigner in Thailand might be useful, even if you didn't plan on leaving the country.

[onthemoon]

3 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

 

I can think of a few situations where having a valid passport as a foreigner in Thailand might be useful, even if you didn't plan on leaving the country.

Let me guess... when you visit your embassy?

[stbkk]

5 hours ago, Michael Hare said:

I have no TM number because I start my journey in Thailand. If I gave the hotels my new passport, there would be no record of it in the Thai system anywhere. My new passport (two months old) is completely clean with no stamps in it. Not even a reentry visa because in these times I won't be traveling overseas for many months. Hotels definitely don't need your passport number if one has PR. You can even let your passport expire, as it is only needed if one is going to travel overseas. 

I am sometimes asked for copies of my passport and the current visa page. Now it is many years since I have not had a valid reentry visa, since I travel a lot on business. But my current one runs out in a week or two, and is not going to be renewed for the foreseeable future! Even my accountant (who knows all about my PR) asks for it saying some government offices (or more likely, the people they deal with in those offices) ask for this. I'll let every body know what transpires! Also, does anybody else get asked for this, or are they just picking on little old me!! ???? 

[Michael Hare]

12 hours ago, stbkk said:

I am sometimes asked for copies of my passport and the current visa page. Now it is many years since I have not had a valid reentry visa, since I travel a lot on business. But my current one runs out in a week or two, and is not going to be renewed for the foreseeable future! Even my accountant (who knows all about my PR) asks for it saying some government offices (or more likely, the people they deal with in those offices) ask for this. I'll let every body know what transpires! Also, does anybody else get asked for this, or are they just picking on little old me!! ???? 

I think the confusion is that what we call a re-entry visa or permit is titled NON-QUOTA IMMIGRANT VISA. My accountant who does my work permits every two years used to ask for this saying that it was a requirement at the Labour office. I told him each time that I believed he was wrong. Last year when my work permit came up for renewal, I went myself to find out if they really did need my passport showing this re-entry visa. Their reply was that there was no need to show my passport at all. Only my PR documents. So that got sorted out. 

[mortenaa]

1 hour ago, Michael Hare said:

I think the confusion is that what we call a re-entry visa or permit is titled NON-QUOTA IMMIGRANT VISA. My accountant who does my work permits every two years used to ask for this saying that it was a requirement at the Labour office. I told him each time that I believed he was wrong. Last year when my work permit came up for renewal, I went myself to find out if they really did need my passport showing this re-entry visa. Their reply was that there was no need to show my passport at all. Only my PR documents. So that got sorted out. 

Yea, very simple to renew WP after I got PR. Even got two whole years last time ????

[mortenaa]

22 hours ago, Michael Hare said:

Since I received my pink ID card 9 years ago, I use it in place of my passport everywhere in Thailand. Domestic air-travel, hotels and banking. In fact everywhere, where identification is needed. Hotels in Thailand really like it, as my home address is clearly printed on it. 

So when you book on eg Agoda, you use your name written in Thai? 

[Michael Hare]

58 minutes ago, mortenaa said:

So when you book on eg Agoda, you use your name written in Thai? 

No, I write everything in English. But it isn't a problem when I present my ID card at hotels in Thailand as the people at reception are Thais.

[mortenaa]

2 minutes ago, Michael Hare said:

No, I write everything in English. But it isn't a problem when I present my ID card at hotels in Thailand as the people at reception are Thais.

Hehe, do you live in the same Thailand as I do? Most Thais get perplexed when they have to read Thai, and try to translate a name, written in Thai to English on the spot.  Then I just end up give them my drivers license, which has my name in English ???? That said, my last name is very Scandinavian, and hard to pronounce.

[GabbaGabbaHey]

1 hour ago, mortenaa said:

Hehe, do you live in the same Thailand as I do? Most Thais get perplexed when they have to read Thai, and try to translate a name, written in Thai to English on the spot.  Then I just end up give them my drivers license, which has my name in English ???? That said, my last name is very Scandinavian, and hard to pronounce.

Don't you have the booking form and credit card (that you have to show) using alphabetical characters?

[mortenaa]

8 minutes ago, GabbaGabbaHey said:

Don't you have the booking form and credit card (that you have to show) using alphabetical characters?

No, nowadays everything is registered with an app, and paid with the same app.

[GabbaGabbaHey]

57 minutes ago, mortenaa said:

No, nowadays everything is registered with an app, and paid with the same app.

Exactly. And whatever you have registered there (in English) the hotel front desk has it.

[mortenaa]

On 4/3/2020 at 12:37 PM, GabbaGabbaHey said:

Exactly. And whatever you have registered there (in English) the hotel front desk has it.

Hence the confusion when I hand them the pink ID-card, and they have to lookup the information, which is written in their system in English. Usually then I just hand them my driving license instead.

[ubonjoe]

On 3/29/2020 at 7:43 AM, ubonjoe said:

They forgot  those on PR who don't have a valid work permit when they wrote the latest restrictions.

Those with PR should of been given the same status as Thai nationals. If somebody with PR and no work permit should contact the Thai embassy to find out if they can help to issue a "fit to fly" letter and some sort special entry allowance for them.

For those that are not aware of the latest restrictions under the emergency decree info is here.

https://www.iatatravelcentre.com/international-travel-document-news/1580226297.htm

In the newspaper that I cannot mention there is a article about visas and etc saying immigration is aware some people may have a problem entering the country prior to the one year out of the country or when your visa/re-entry permit expires. They plan on extending the one year.