Camerata's Guide To The Permanent Residence Process

[skyaslimit]

If you get the Alien ID (pink) ID card for Permanent Residents, the Land Transport department are happy with that and a copy of your Tabien Baan. You don't need anything else.

Oh dear, I did visited my ampur 2 days ago while accompnying my son for military conscription, they called the head office AGAIN, and told me that they can only issue me this card after the changes on the back are done.

[skyaslimit]

Early this year when I renewed my 5 year at Suk 99 location they insisted on copies of my passport and the current permuted to stay stamp page. Although I have a Tabien Baan and Thai ID number they used the passport number for my DL number this time. So I would suggest a trip to Immigration and have Permit to stay stamp transferred to the new passport.

Do you have a PR status and blue thabian baan? or do you have an year visa with yellow thabian baan?

[asiaexpat]

Yellow TB and Non-O, but I believe the interest was legal immigration status.

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[Arkady]

Was informed yesterday by an immigration official that PR for 'aliens' is no longer available

Can anyone confirm or deny this ?? PLEASE

Well they did the annual opening for applications in December 2013. Permanent residence for aliens is a key provision of the 1979 Immigration Act which is still in force. There has been no talk about repealing it that I have heard. Your information must be incorrect. I suggest you take along a copy of the Immigration Act in Thai to that Immigration official and ask him to cite the evidence that it has suddenly been repealed.

[skyaslimit]

Yellow TB and Non-O, but I believe the interest was legal immigration status.

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This is the thing with a PR and blue thabian baan, we do not use any type of visa any more, so there is nothing to transfer on my new passport, I hold it just blank without any stamps what so ever.

[asiaexpat]

Skyasalimit, I realized that after I made the post. PR must be out of the norm for some Land Transport Offices but I still believe they were only interested to have proof of a legal status.

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[Zam]

Hello All

Is there any update on the 2009 year applicants for the PR as heard a rumour that some people have begun receiving any updates would be appreciated!

[onthemoon]

Yellow TB and Non-O, but I believe the interest was legal immigration status.

This is the thing with a PR and blue thabian baan, we do not use any type of visa any more, so there is nothing to transfer on my new passport, I hold it just blank without any stamps what so ever.

Did you show them you PR book and the other, totally useless, red book? Maybe this makes the red book useful.

[Dork]

I will soon have a new passport. Is it correct that I don't need to do anything with immigration? Just carry the old passport (with current endorsement) when travelling abroad?

[brianinbangkok]

I will be doing my yearly trip to immigration to get my re-entry visa and endorsement done. Is it still at Gov.Office at Changwattana rd. Or somewhere else now? Can it still be done within a day ?

[ubonjoe]

You will have to go to one of the temporary offices. CW is still closed.

The offices are at imperial world Lad Phrao or Major Hollywood Suksawat.

[brianinbangkok]

Thanks.

So I can still hand in the PR paperwork in the morning and pick up later the same day ?

[ubonjoe]

I can't give you a firm answer to your question. It should be done the same day but it is not possible to state that with a great deal of confidence that it would be correct under the current conditions.

[brianinbangkok]

Thanks, will report back here to let others know .

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[brianinbangkok]

what happens if one stays out of Thailand for several years. PR is lost of course but can you get it back easier then starting over again ? I heard that somebody lost it and got it back after he paid 100k fine.

This still could be cheaper in the long run if one needs to work abroad for a few years.

[stbkk]

I have no idea how easy it is (or otherwise) to get back, once you lose it.

But I do know if I have to work abroad again I'll make sure I'm back once a year to keep my PR, no matter what. It's not too tough an ask, in my opinion, and as I waited 6 years to get it in the first place I don't want to take any risks.

[Arkady]

I know someone who automatically lost PR because he suffered a medical emergency requiring immediate surgery overseas and couldn't get back in time as planned. Even ample evidence of his medical condition didn't spare him the revocation because the law doesn't allow any mitigating circumstances but Immigration was immensely sympathetic. He reapplied the next year and was spared some of the interview process. Got it back within a year but that was par for the course for first time applicants in those days. I don't believe you can get it back without re-applying whatever you pay because the law doesn't allow that.

Now that it is become so much harder and takes much longer, it is hard to say what would happen. My advice would be to return to Thailand at least once a year on time, unless you have no intention of living here again.

[NewlyMintedThai]

I'm not sure why you'd want Thai PR if you're not planning to live in Thailand permanently. I understand circumstances change, though, and people might want to retain it even if they eventually have to move away. I guess the best advice is simply to plan on one trip to Thailand a year, and don't wait until the last minute in case of illness, etc.

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[brianinbangkok]

Thanks for the replies.

[tamvine]

what happens if one stays out of Thailand for several years. PR is lost of course but can you get it back easier then starting over again ? I heard that somebody lost it and got it back after he paid 100k fine.

This still could be cheaper in the long run if one needs to work abroad for a few years.

It is an absolute must to come to Thailand once every year to maintain your PR. Also as you may be knowing it is a must to have your PR book Endorsed and Passport have Non Quota Immigrant visa if you leave Thailand.

If you want to maintain the PR, I strongly suggest that you make efforts to come and visit Thailand every year before the visa and endorsement expire. Once lost you will have to apply for a new one and given recent track record of Thai PR issuance if may another lifetime you get it again.

[brianinbangkok]

Thanks all, have managed to be back on time for a few years already . Just wondering.

[Arkady]

Thanks all, have managed to be back on time for a few years already . Just wondering.

The problem with this is that the one year deadline is in the 1979 Immigration Act as a cut and dried provision with no right of appeal. In the old days the Thai authorities were concerned about controlling the large population of Chinese immigrants, whom they associated with triad related crime. PR was quite easy to obtain but they didn't want Chinese who moved back to China to retain it and maybe sell their documents to other Chinese who wanted to move to Thailand. Similarly they revoked Thai citizenship from Chinese who got it due to birth in Thailand to alien fathers, if they stayed abroad for more than 5 years.

The problem of triad related crime has been solved by naturalising it and making it Thai crime which is respectable if the numbers are large enough. The provision in the Immigration Act remains.

[brianinbangkok]

Thanks all, have managed to be back on time for a few years already . Just wondering.

The problem with this is that the one year deadline is in the 1979 Immigration Act as a cut and dried provision with no right of appeal. In the old days the Thai authorities were concerned about controlling the large population of Chinese immigrants, whom they associated with triad related crime. PR was quite easy to obtain but they didn't want Chinese who moved back to China to retain it and maybe sell their documents to other Chinese who wanted to move to Thailand. Similarly they revoked Thai citizenship from Chinese who got it due to birth in Thailand to alien fathers, if they stayed abroad for more than 5 years.

The problem of triad related crime has been solved by naturalising it and making it Thai crime which is respectable if the numbers are large enough. The provision in the Immigration Act remains.

So even if one becomes a Thai national and leaves for more then 5 years he loses it ?

[ubonjoe]

That rule went away several year ago. There is no time limit for being out of the country now for citizenship.

[Arkady]

That rule went away several year ago. There is no time limit for being out of the country now for citizenship.

With due respect the rule is still there in the Nationality Act and applies both to Thais who obtained citizenship due to being born in the Kingdom to alien parents (since 1971 this is only possible if both parents hold PR) and to naturalised Thais. There is no record that I have found that it has been used against naturalised Thais, who are much more likely to stay in Thailand anyway. But the law has been enforced as recently as 2008 against those Thai only through birth in the Kingdom. The last case was announced in the Royal Gazette (attached) in August 2008 concerned a Mr Thi Aa Than under Section 17.2 of the Nationality Act:

"(2) There is evidence to show that the person makes use of the nationality of the father, mother, or of a foreign nationality, or that the person has an active interest in the nationality of the father, mother, or in a foreign nationality;"

Up until 2008 there were often several announcements of revocations under Section 17 (mainly 17.2 above) in most years, sometimes in batches. There were also a few revocations due to misbehaviour, involving gambling, drugs etc. I don't know, if the lack of involuntary revocations since 2008 reflects a change of policy to not go after those Thai solely through birth in the Kingdom any more but it is possible. Also most of them are getting older and less likely to move around. Anyway it is certainly not the result of an amendment to the Act.

30.pdf

[samran]

That rule went away several year ago. There is no time limit for being out of the country now for citizenship.

With due respect the rule is still there in the Nationality Act and applies both to Thais who obtained citizenship due to being born in the Kingdom to alien parents (since 1971 this is only possible if both parents hold PR) and to naturalised Thais. There is no record that I have found that it has been used against naturalised Thais, who are much more likely to stay in Thailand anyway. But the law has been enforced as recently as 2008 against those Thai only through birth in the Kingdom. The last case was announced in the Royal Gazette (attached) in August 2008 concerned a Mr Thi Aa Than under Section 17.2 of the Nationality Act:

"(2) There is evidence to show that the person makes use of the nationality of the father, mother, or of a foreign nationality, or that the person has an active interest in the nationality of the father, mother, or in a foreign nationality;"

I note who signed off on it....

[Arkady]

That rule went away several year ago. There is no time limit for being out of the country now for citizenship.

With due respect the rule is still there in the Nationality Act and applies both to Thais who obtained citizenship due to being born in the Kingdom to alien parents (since 1971 this is only possible if both parents hold PR) and to naturalised Thais. There is no record that I have found that it has been used against naturalised Thais, who are much more likely to stay in Thailand anyway. But the law has been enforced as recently as 2008 against those Thai only through birth in the Kingdom. The last case was announced in the Royal Gazette (attached) in August 2008 concerned a Mr Thi Aa Than under Section 17.2 of the Nationality Act:

"(2) There is evidence to show that the person makes use of the nationality of the father, mother, or of a foreign nationality, or that the person has an active interest in the nationality of the father, mother, or in a foreign nationality;"

I note who signed off on it....

Ha ha. I didn't look at that. 'Twas in the glory days of Chalerm's 8 month stint as Interior Minister under Samak. If he had his way, there would also be one PR less this year.

[ubonjoe]

It would interesting to know the full story of how it happened. He must of done something to of been noticed.

[Arkady]

It would interesting to know the full story of how it happened. He must of done something to of been noticed.

It is possible that Mr Thi did something to attract unfavorable attention but no offence is mentioned in the announcement and googling him in Thai only produces the announcement in question. In a small minority of the other annoucements specific offences or being a threat to national security were specified as the reason for the revocation. Searching in the Royal Gazette for "revocation of Thai nationality (ถอนสัญชาติไทย) produces 53 announcements from 1973 to 2008, of which some are batches of up to 9 people. The vast majority are Chinese names with only Sections 17.1 and 17.2 of the Nationality Act cited, which involve living abroad for more than 5 years after becoming of age and making use of father's nationality or former nationality.

Before 1973 they must have used wording other than ถอนสัญชาติไทย, as there were undoubtedly many revocations. I remember a story in the press in the late 80s about a group of Chinese stripped of their Thai citizenship and blacklisted for residing in China during the Cold War. Most of them had been sent there by their families to study originally, as literacy in Chinese was still regarded as essential to do business in Thailand. it took them about 30 years to get visas to visit their families in Thailand again. In that period tracking Chinese Thais spending too much time abroad was probably part of the communist suppression efforts. China only prohibited dual citizenship in the 70s as part of a move to improve relations with Southeast Asian countries that regarded the existence of large numbers of Chinese citizens in their countries as a serious security threat.

Fast forward to 2008, rather than delete Sections 17.1 and 17.2 the lawmakers chose to update them in the 2008 Act by adding wording to cover people residing in mother's country and using mother's nationality in addition to father's to reflect the new global reality that nationality can be passed down through the female line.

Back to PR. People with PR leaving Thailand for more than one year in the past were expected to surrender their PR. Because it was relatively easy to obtain for those with employable skills until the early 50s when the quota of 100 per nationality was imposed and the fees sharply increased to hamper further mass Chinese immigration, they could easily reapply if they returned. After the quota was imposed, one can imagine that Immigration became much stricter about the 1 year time limit, since there must have been attempts to sell PR documents to new Chinese immigrants.

[Zam]

Hi,

I am repeating the same question posted in this forum does anyone have any update on the 2009 PR applicants and other status its been in a limbo do you think this will happen this year.

Also if your son becomes 21 years heard he cannot be a dependent anymore and needs to have a new visa so quite concerning how to go about this as Immigration only say soon this will be approved when you call them.

Any insights will be greatly appreciated