Immigration: Foreigners must now carry valid ID at all times, report within 24 hours

[cekipa]

GREAT ! Now, I want to see how many property owners will accept the hassle of having to go to immigration. Can imagine the ads popping up from now: "HOUSE FOR RENT (no farang please)". Very well done. Thank you for discriminating us more and more !

[grantbkk]

 

It is illegal to go out in public without state issued ID in USA. It has been the law for decades. At the very least, you must know your drivers license number so the police can run you for wants and warrants. The difference is they cannot stop you without probable cause and in California it is illegal for the police to ask about your immigration status.

Sent from my GT-S7270 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

 
You do not need to carry identification in the U.S. nor is there any law requiring a U.S. citizen to carry ID unless you are driving or flying. Foriegn nationals are required by law to carry ID all the time. The problem is when you are stopped be the police for any violation you had better be able to prove who you are. In California you can be detained for a few hours to give law enforcement a chance to ID you.

 
grantbkk you're getting pretty close to the real deal in the USA.
 
Fliers and drivers do need ID.
 
There is no law requiring a person to carry ID in public in the USA.
 
The police have powers under "probable cause" to hold an individual if they have probable cause to believe that the individual may be about to commit an offence, or has committed an offence, or are in the act of committing an offence. It's up to the police to decide what probable cause is. So, in fact even though there is no law requiring a person to hold valid ID, it is defacto.
 
Cop says to the magistrate: "He was behaving suspiciously, and he had no ID."
 
US police with the slightest suspicion can hold an individual until identity is confirmed. Ask any African american or Latino who has been "Stopped and Frisked" in the cirty of New York. 

I guess this is off topic and you are almost on the money. However there is no law called suspicion and there needs to be some kind of violation of the law to detain someone for ID. 836 sub 3 of the California Penal Code can be used to charge for suspicion of a felony but a specific crime like robbery or murder or other felony must accompany that charge and the probable cause articulated.

[culicine]

camping now illlegal

overnight kayak or canoe trips now illegal

overnight trekking now illegal

live aboard dive trips now illegal

yatch trips now illegal

overnight trips to outer island now illegal

 

Thailands unique selling points used to be:

 

1. Freedom

2. Surf, sand and sun

3. Sex

 

Cross freedom of that list.  And due to overdevelopment the beaches are now a biohazard.

 

That leaves just sex.  But I imagine that many of the punters enjoying that USP are now without a viable visa option.

 

I wonder if the Junta will start clearing the beer bars?

 

It wouldn't surprise me one iota if the authorities start raiding beer bars looking for punters without ID. Carry your passport/Thai driver's licence. I see random checks in HH looming, as these old laws have once again been restated. 

[96tehtarp]

Do you know why I'm saying these things?  It's not because I'm really that bad of a guy in real life.  I love Thailand.  I'm just tired of seeing your crowd here toot your horns, and call other people names like 'riff raff' in order to show how much you go along with a military coup (which in your own country you would scream to high heaven about), without knowing a darn thing about the people you put down while doing so.  You guys do it everyday.  And then you turn around and say 'You dont' know anything about me!'.  Your legitmacy, is someone else's loophole in the future - ESPECIALLY when there is no official government.  Before this last year, other people were completely encouraged to do border runs, for example - not by 'con artists', but by immigration officials all over Thailand.  Do you know that 5 years ago when I came here, triple entry tourist visas were FREE, and they never stopped encouraging an American to have another one?  They gave me 4 back to back triple entry tourist visas, in fact, and said 'Welcome to Thailand!'  Suddenly, that's called having 'taken advantage of loop holes'.  That's not right - and yes, Thailand can do that.  But it's especially not right for you guys to imply that somene is a criminal for it.  Other people have people they care about too, buddy.  Other people do their best to support the people they care about too - not just you, and not just retirees.  And yet, you guys call those people criminals and low lifes here for it now, because it makes you feel good about yourself.  Again, someone else could easily be saying that to you someday - whether or not you think that's possible.

 

I wish a good day, and in real life we might have interesting conversations and be friends.  But on this board, too many people are far too judgemental towards others for political misfortune, and it isn't right.  THAT's why I give you a hard time about it.  Not because I wish ill on your or anyone.  At the VERY LEAST, when you're putting down others while they are separated from the people they also love - at LEAST - acknowledge the reality of their situations having drastically changed, after having been fully led to believe something different.  I just don't find it respectable.

 

 

"Before this last year, other people were completely encouraged to do border runs, for example - not by 'con artists', but by immigration officials all over Thailand.  Do you know that 5 years ago when I came here, triple entry tourist visas were FREE, and they never stopped encouraging an American to have another one?  They gave me 4 back to back triple entry tourist visas, in fact, and said 'Welcome to Thailand!'  Suddenly, that's called having 'taken advantage of loop holes'.  That's not right"

 

Right on.

 

That was the old system. Immigration have encouraged me to overstay on many occasions. Visa running, back to back excemptions, all were encouraged as "This Is Thailand, and here we do things the Thai way".

 

Now that we have a new Thailand under a new military junta who's logo is "Reform Thailand", things are changing.

 

I too don't like all the riff-raff name calling and bitterness.

 

Wait until the junta triples the retiree visa financial requirement.

Edited July 30, 2014 by 96tehtarp

[RTH10260]

/* snip */

For the ID, they say a copy of your passport stamped by immigration is acceptable.  If I were coming in with no TDL, I'd ask the immigration guy who stamps my passport in to also stamp a copy of my passport that I had the foresight to print before I left for Thailand.  Maybe they will.  Maybe they won't.  Can't hurt to ask politely.

I guess I am much too logical and practical for Thailand, but my suggestion would be that at the point of entry the use all personal information they have in their computer to print a temporary visitor ID card. Photo from the mugshot camera, perhaps visa type as a watermark overlay, valid 90 days. Those reporting every 90 days get a fresh card. Do away with the departure slip, use the back of the card to note kind transport and date of exit for statistiks.

[RTH10260]

Wonder how Thais would like it if similar rules were enforced upon them when living overseas. Thais in the UK can travel freely without any of this nonsense.

Most continental European countries also require a form of id, doesn't have to be the passport. Switzerland will let you roam without ID, just avminor hassle should the unlikely event of a personal check happen.

[Soutpeel]

so you showed them your  UK state issued ID and you were sent on your way after they ran you through NCIC... which came back no wants or warrants... what do you think they are doing when they talk on the radio and look at the computer in their car?
 
anyone who doubts what i am saying, the next time you are in the USA and get stopped by the cops, see what happens if you don't at least tell them who you are. your full name and address so they can run you.
 
"Although most American adults carry their driver's license at all times when they are outside their homes, there is no legal requirement that they must be carrying their license when not operating a vehicle. However, the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that states are permitted to require people to say their name when a police officer asks them (see Stop and identify statutes). Furthermore, in some states, like California, failure to produce an identification document upon citation for any traffic infraction (such as riding a bicycle on the wrong side of a street) is sufficient justification for full custodial arrest.[4"
 
you will be arrested if you do not ID yourself even if just walking down the street if a cop stops you and wants to know who you are.
it has been that way for decades.

There is no "state" issued ID's in the UK...  and the DL I was using had absolutely no connection to the passport I was in the US on either, and never had the PP with me either..  

 

so good luck with any NCIC computer search, and yes I was driving, So I guess they let me go because of my sparkling personality, charming wit and my "cute "British accent" 

which its not anyway ...

 

 

 

[bangon04]

No comments of the 48 hour law, you all understand?

 

"There is also another reporting obligation, and this applies when a foreigner visits another province and stays for more than 48 hours. In that case the reporting of the new address must be provided to the police, or the immigration, within 48 hours."

 

Lets say you live in Bangkok and like to spend the weekend in Pattaya (Chon Buri province). Beware not staying more then 48 hours!!!

In case of, you have to report your new address to police or immigration. Most probably then the police, as it is weekend and Immigration are closed. Beside this, the hotel or friend that gives you a room, also have to report your name and passport number.

 

A quick calculation, gives some hundreds of thousands reports, every day.

 

That retard, writing this law 1979, still alive?

Can you see how they are building some very big new warehouses to keep all the extra papers in?

 

Buy shares in copy paper producers, and print cartridges....

[chiang mai]

 

 

Do you know why I'm saying these things?  It's not because I'm really that bad of a guy in real life.  I love Thailand.  I'm just tired of seeing your crowd here toot your horns, and call other people names like 'riff raff' in order to show how much you go along with a military coup (which in your own country you would scream to high heaven about), without knowing a darn thing about the people you put down while doing so.  You guys do it everyday.  And then you turn around and say 'You dont' know anything about me!'.  Your legitmacy, is someone else's loophole in the future - ESPECIALLY when there is no official government.  Before this last year, other people were completely encouraged to do border runs, for example - not by 'con artists', but by immigration officials all over Thailand.  Do you know that 5 years ago when I came here, triple entry tourist visas were FREE, and they never stopped encouraging an American to have another one?  They gave me 4 back to back triple entry tourist visas, in fact, and said 'Welcome to Thailand!'  Suddenly, that's called having 'taken advantage of loop holes'.  That's not right - and yes, Thailand can do that.  But it's especially not right for you guys to imply that somene is a criminal for it.  Other people have people they care about too, buddy.  Other people do their best to support the people they care about too - not just you, and not just retirees.  And yet, you guys call those people criminals and low lifes here for it now, because it makes you feel good about yourself.  Again, someone else could easily be saying that to you someday - whether or not you think that's possible.

 

I wish a good day, and in real life we might have interesting conversations and be friends.  But on this board, too many people are far too judgemental towards others for political misfortune, and it isn't right.  THAT's why I give you a hard time about it.  Not because I wish ill on your or anyone.  At the VERY LEAST, when you're putting down others while they are separated from the people they also love - at LEAST - acknowledge the reality of their situations having drastically changed, after having been fully led to believe something different.  I just don't find it respectable.

 

 

Where have I ever called other people names such as "rif raf"?

 

"You guys do it every day", what group did you decide to put me in and by what right?

 

Where have I ever called some a "criminal" for doing border runs?

 

Where and when have I ever called "those people low lifes and criminals"?

 

My "legitimacy is someone else's loophole"! Say what!!

 

You seem like an angry person and furthermore, you seem to hold me accountable as part of a group that is responsible for some damage that group has done to you. Heads up, I'm not and I haven't, go take your frustration out on somebody who has actually done those things to you, rather than on someone you think could potentially have done so! If you wanted to start a thread that talked about your separation from your loved ones etc etc, you may get my sympathy and support.

 

But in a thread that talks about carrying ID and reporting movements under the law, I can only support what I've known to be the law here since day one, people who don't want to do those things deserve whatever comes at them. And take the subject matter to the next higher level, do I agree with the crack down on all things by the the junta, yes, it's long overdue and again I support it wholeheartedly. Ask me do I have some sympathies for those people who have been allowed to stay here in contravention of the law and to establish a false sense of entitlement and my response is yes possibly, in some cases. But I'd want to understand it all on a case by case basis before I decided whether an individual was worthy of sympathy or deserved criticism. Clear?

 

 

[Thai at Heart]

A Thai DL is the best form of ID as it carries the holder's passport number also. So when stopped, the cop can take the DL over to the laptop in his car, key in the passport number and, voila, it will show the Visa status! Simples! ;-)

You beleive that the police databases integrate with immigration in real time over a network.

[chiang mai]

 

 

 

Many if not most countries have the same thing, Chinese who serve in Thailands army (two specific regiments known as the Chaing Kai Shek brigades or similar) are given Thai ID cards afterwards - the French Foreign Legion gives French citizenship to anyone who serves.
 

 

 

Chiang mai, wouldn't that clause about the Chinese serving in Thailand's army have been in the past? I think you are referring to the Chiang Kai Shek warriors who escaped communist China back in the days of the Chinese civil war and communist takeover of the mainland. The Chiang Kai Shek warriors of course fled to present day Taiwan to form a government over there, with quite a few of them settling in northern Thailand's Mae Salong district of Chiang Rai province, not far from the Burmese border. I believe residents of that town, many of whom had served for Thailand some decades ago are mostly, if not entirely, Thai citizens. Their children became Thai citizens upon birth through descent and are nowadays more identified by their Chinese ethnicity like many other Thais but rarely speak Chinese or hold onto their Chinese identity.

 

Highly doubt Thailand would today allow a selective race based system whereby they would preference Chinese to become citizens based on serving in their army - otherwise they could have millions of new Chinese immigrants, which I don't think would serve the country any good, nor does it want that - and in any case it would look racist as to why only Chinese are eligible and not farangs or any other foreigners. However, if you are referring to the historical situation or in the case of say, those fleeing communism per se, I can see you have a valid point.

 

However, the point above was about illegals gaining citizenship by serving in the US army, not a specific nationality or anyone like in the examples you made above. Why wouldn't legal non-citizens have the same rights to do the same? Bizarre, if true.
 

 

 

I believe the practice is still in operation, my hairdresser is a young Chinese guy who went that route, he's a super guy and a decent barber also, received his Thai ID less than five years ago!

[Thai at Heart]

No comments of the 48 hour law, you all understand?
 
"There is also another reporting obligation, and this applies when a foreigner visits another province and stays for more than 48 hours. In that case the reporting of the new address must be provided to the police, or the immigration, within 48 hours."
 
Lets say you live in Bangkok and like to spend the weekend in Pattaya (Chon Buri province). Beware not staying more then 48 hours!!!
In case of, you have to report your new address to police or immigration. Most probably then the police, as it is weekend and Immigration are closed. Beside this, the hotel or friend that gives you a room, also have to report your name and passport number.
 
A quick calculation, gives some hundreds of thousands reports, every day.
 
That retard, writing this law 1979, still alive?

Can you see how they are building some very big new warehouses to keep all the extra papers in?
 
Buy shares in copy paper producers, and print cartridges....

Hahaha.

I used to cover the entire of Isaan provinces in a two week sweep every month on business using company accommodation.

This is going to generate enormous amounts of paper.

[jpeg]

More scaremongering by TV. Al those roolz were already in place. Desperate for 'hits"? 

[96tehtarp]

 

/* snip */

For the ID, they say a copy of your passport stamped by immigration is acceptable.  If I were coming in with no TDL, I'd ask the immigration guy who stamps my passport in to also stamp a copy of my passport that I had the foresight to print before I left for Thailand.  Maybe they will.  Maybe they won't.  Can't hurt to ask politely.

I guess I am much too logical and practical for Thailand, but my suggestion would be that at the point of entry the use all personal information they have in their computer to print a temporary visitor ID card. Photo from the mugshot camera, perhaps visa type as a watermark overlay, valid 90 days. Those reporting every 90 days get a fresh card. Do away with the departure slip, use the back of the card to note kind transport and date of exit for statistiks.

 

"Do away with the departure slip"

 

Great idea. There is already a bar-code on it.

 

A plastic laminated departure card for Aliens to carry with them would be a fantastic solution. Even if they charged a little for it it would still be a great facility and would make Thailand a truly tourist friendly country.

[DrTuner]

 Just notified my friend who's coming to holiday in Thailand for the first time for five days next month with family, at about ~1000€/day budget. Nothing says "quality tourist" like being treated like a sex offender: "And don't forget to tell the police every time you move".

 

 They'll top of their holiday in Bali and I suspect if next month they'll have to run around doing TM.28's that'll be their S-E Asia destination in the future.

[ScottMallon]

This is no different than Myanmar. It is difficult to go anywhere without a Burmese knowing where you are at all times.

[bkkjames]

This is no different than Myanmar. It is difficult to go anywhere without a Burmese knowing where you are at all times.

 

exactly, my wife knows exactly where i am , where I have been and who I am wishing I could be with 

[stiggy]

As usual the TV westerners are crying, unjust, how does this make sense "how very dare they" 

 

Westerners (inc tourists) are just a small part of the picture of foreign Aliens in Thailand,this is mostly aimed at the huge number of Aliens from neighbouring countries, Cambodians , Burmese etc working and living here.

 

To Thais we are all Aliens, biggest difference being the amount one group complains compared to the other, and the visual lifestyle we have as expats or Tourists

 

I have recently voted with my feet and left after 16 years here, love Thailand love Thais in general, hate the Bureaucracy and BS, I fear it will only get worse.

 

 

[chrisinth]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

 

 

 

So does this mean if I'm staying in my Thai partners rented accommodation, when I get there I have to go to immigration in Phuket and my Partner has to tell them I am staying with her? I have not done that before after being together 4 years, even though I'm staying 3 weeks.


Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE 7.5A using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app
 

my wife reports when we come every year to stay in our house

Can I ask how she does it? And when?

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE 7.5A using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

 

 

Rebecca, do yourself a favour and carry on doing what you have been doing in the past. Stop stressing yourself out.

 

If you come in as a tourist and they do not make it clear of the requirements, then how are you meant to know?

 

All these pages of panic have come from something that might affect people living in or visiting Hua Hin. It 'may' become enforced nationwide at a later stage.

 

Just my opinion of course as a layman and should not be taken as legit..........................

[Jasun]

"you and your landlord (condominium owner, house owner etc) must report to Immigration within 24 hours....  This applies to both tourists and expats"

 

Does this apply to staying in hotels? This implies that as a tourist, you would personally be required to report to immigration if you changed where you were staying.
 

 

[RogueLeader]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

 

 

I think the Junta is going to start clamping down harder on foreigners.  I get the feeling we are not welcome in the new Thailand.

 

 

 

Did you ever go to Burma in the late 80s or 90s?  It wasn't uncommon to have an armed solider follow you EVERYWHERE you went and wait outside of wherever you were, even your hotel. It was creepy.

 

No doubt the Thai junta has been reading the Burmese playbook. While these rules have been on the books for a while, you can bet your bottom things are going to get much, much worse for foreigners here. No where has military rule ever worked out for the better of the people.

 

 

And the country will fall further into the pits!!    They need the foreign income.

The Chinese will provide it. Chinese tourists don't ask questions (they're trained from birth) don't do unpredictable things and don't move around outside tour groups.

 

Thailand will do just fine without Europe.

[Ned]

I've live in my wife's house in the north now for more than ten years. Does this new reporting business mean that if I visit and stay with friends for longer than two days then I have to report to Immigration in their province ...... and my friend does too? ,,,,or stay at a hotel for longer than two days?

Seriously Big Brother stuff this. Ugly and getting uglier.

 

[Jasun]

GPS bracelets would have been simpler.

[Ned]

I think you're right Rogue Leader. There are moves to drop visa requirements for Chinese and Taiwanese tourists right now. Do the Chinese come to Thailand for sex? Do they have bars in tourist spots? Just interested.

 

[paddyjenkins]

/* snip */

For the ID, they say a copy of your passport stamped by immigration is acceptable.  If I were coming in with no TDL, I'd ask the immigration guy who stamps my passport in to also stamp a copy of my passport that I had the foresight to print before I left for Thailand.  Maybe they will.  Maybe they won't.  Can't hurt to ask politely.

I guess I am much too logical and practical for Thailand, but my suggestion would be that at the point of entry the use all personal information they have in their computer to print a temporary visitor ID card. Photo from the mugshot camera, perhaps visa type as a watermark overlay, valid 90 days. Those reporting every 90 days get a fresh card. Do away with the departure slip, use the back of the card to note kind transport and date of exit for statistiks.

I think it wild be more sensible to attach an electronic tag to each arriving foreigner, which would be removed by immigration when exiting. The tag would be worn on the ankle and would contains a radio frequency transmitter and GPS device, as well as ID.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[sgtsabai]

TM 28 link was posted, people please read it. It says YOU have to fill out and report for stay out of province of more than 24 hours within 48 hours. Actually pretty clear for a Thai regulation. TM 30 is not your responsibilty unless you own/lease the residense you are in. My wife had to fill out TM 30 extension before last. TM 30 has been in effect for years but for hotels etc. Now this is changed. TM 28 isn't in effect Kingdom wide, yet.

[bkkjames]

"you and your landlord (condominium owner, house owner etc) must report to Immigration within 24 hours....  This applies to both tourists and expats"

 

Does this apply to staying in hotels? This implies that as a tourist, you would personally be required to report to immigration if you changed where you were staying.
 

 

 

I feel like I work for TAT ..... the hotel takes a copy of your passport when you check in... clear?  They submit it. If you move to new hotel...repeat number 1. 

[thailiketoo]

From the OP, "Representatives from the expat community, thaivisa.com and from local hotels was today Tuesday informed by Thai Immigration and Hua Hin Municipality."

 

I'm wondering just how was Thai Visa informed?  Is Thai Visa now a representative of the expat community? 

 

Seems to me the biggest change effects Thais and home stay notifications.  Why no story in the Thai media?  Or is there and I missed it? 

 

Thai people are not going to read  Thai Visa so how are they going to know they have to report a Farang staying at their home?

[Tomtomtom69]

I am sure wht i post here is stated before on this thread but want to vent my frustration as well. Hope some people read this thread and get some feedback.

 

it means i will not be going to Hua Hin anymore or will not be changing cities much. And hope no one does. Hope Hua Hin can survive with Thai tourists only and privileged Chinese tourists - dont know why, possibly Thai authorities fear pressure from Chinese authorities? And once some businesses crashes - which many tourism business have crashed already  - things will be relaxed again.

and driving licenses are not accepted by police at times and they ask for passport.

 

and reporting where i am for my business trips every 48 hours at immigration bureaus that even a single simple process takes 3 hours?

so means i will lose 3 hours for every 48 hours? 

And why double report? Owner of accommodation already reports your stay so why do you need to do it as well  - possibly, they want to drag you to immigration for some reason?

Sorry but it does not make sense! These are archaic laws.

On top of all these, i hate the tone of immigration officials on these type of press talk like all foreigners are illegal subjects or kids! I am feeding many Thai staff of mine over the years and did a lot for this country. Taxes cut from my salary for 7 years is a good amount even to build a small school somewhere! So at least i want some kind talk from authorities, not like do this and that or we jail you kind of harsh talk. It is like saying farang go home!

C'mon, why all this hassle? I can understand a crackdown on foreigners working here illegal or overstaying and i can even understand crackdown on visa runs as it was sure needed but this 48 hour thing is something very impractical for everyone. Say i am a tourist, if i dont like the hotel i booked and got a room at another hotel do it need to spend the rest of the day at immigration to notify my new place of stay? Al these sounds like creating new ways to get money for tourists/foreigners as a tourist will never know these rules.

moreover, this will prevent tourist to visit other provinces. Such as you booked a hotel in Bangkok but these type of rules will prevent you to visit Chiang Mai as lots of immigration hassle goes on then. It means businesses rely on circulation of tourists will suffer too.

hey, who comes to Thailand then? at least who goes to Hua Hin anymore?

 

What does any of this have to do with China or Chinese tourists? They as foreigners must report too. The law states that all foreigners must report and Thais, apparently are exempt. The only parallels with China are that in China, being a police state, they have similar laws on their statute books, which are enforced for everyone, both Chinese citizens and non-citizens residing and traveling within China. Of course, enforcement even in China is haphazard, but as a police state I'm not surprised.
 

[sgtsabai]

bkkjames, Jasun, the way I read TM 28 is "out of province for more than 24 hrs." I would not take this to mean everytime you moved within that province, unless permanent change of address you had to report. TM is NOT in effect Kingdom wide, yet.