Overcoming the enemies (negative self talk, habit, & excuses) of regular practice.

[rockyysdt]

For me, atleast, maintaining regular practice has been my biggest challenge.

 

Having studied, & debated, followed several teachers as well as having had retreat experience, I find maintaining regular practice the greatest challenge.

 

 

The two areas involved are:

 

• Sitting.
• Mindfulness.

 

In terms of sitting practice my mind has thrown the works at me.

These include doubt, physical ill feeling, anxiety, commitments, unproductive bad habits taking precedence, emotional state and many others.

 

Mindfulness is not only similarly affected but is further hampered by poor concentration levels.

 

 

The way I view it, the greatest enemy of successful, regular practice, and ultimately Awakening, for me and perhaps for most, is due to the inability to maintain regular practice.

 

I'd be greatful for any practical tips and stories of personal success.

 

Edited July 30, 2014 by rockyysdt

[camerata]

I found after several years of practising mindfulness in everyday life I just got bored with it. I don't know which book I sdaw it in, but Thich Nhat Hanh has some good mindfulness tricks. One I remember was imagining that the brake lights of the car in front of you are the Buddha's eyes watching you. Another was putting a pebble in your pocket so that every time you felt it you were reminded to be mindful. The problem is anything can become routine. A Buddha image should remind you to be mindful, but if it just sits on a shelf it soon becomes part of the furniture. Hence the necessity of regular garland offerings.

[rockyysdt]

Thanks for the tips C.

I know what you mean by becoming blind to things around us.



Sent from my Nexus 5 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[infinity11]

Creatures of (bad) habits, we are.

[VincentRJ]

This is an interesting issue that Rocky raises. I'm also reluctant to set aside a specific period of time each day on a regular basis purely for the purpose of meditating, just as I'm reluctant to set aside a regular period for taking physical exercise in a gym, or at home on an artificial contraption such as a treadmill or on a stationary bike in a spare bedroom. I would find that rather boring.

 

I prefer to get my physical exercise by taking a walk or a jog outside in a beautiful environment, and/or doing some heavy lifting in the garden, shoveling dirt into a wheelbarrow, slashing tall grass, or felling a tree and cutting it up for mulch. I then get a sense that my physical exercise has more purpose.

 

Likewise, I prefer to still my mind during the many interludes throughout the day, during breaks in my general activities and even during certain activities. Such interludes and opportunities to meditate come frequently and naturally.

 

However, I happen to live in a peaceful rural setting surrounded by nature, and I'm retired. I guess that makes all the difference. I'm already free of the constant stress that most people seem to endure during their working lives in a city, having to negotiate congested traffic on their way to and from their workplace each day, and being surrounded by constant noise, chatter and distractions throughout the day.

 

For such people, perhaps the only way they would get the opportunity to meditate, and still their mind,  is to set aside a specific period for meditation each day, that fits into their busy schedule. The same would apply to physical exercise for those leading a sedentary life and who live and work in a city. We are all different to some degree, including our circumstances and environment. One method does not necessarily suit all.

[trd]

I found after several years of practising mindfulness in everyday life I just got bored with it. I don't know which book I sdaw it in, but Thich Nhat Hanh has some good mindfulness tricks. One I remember was imagining that the brake lights of the car in front of you are the Buddha's eyes watching you. Another was putting a pebble in your pocket so that every time you felt it you were reminded to be mindful. The problem is anything can become routine. A Buddha image should remind you to be mindful, but if it just sits on a shelf it soon becomes part of the furniture. Hence the necessity of regular garland offerings.

You might be interested in this. Maha Boowa who was recognised as an arahant talks about how he kept losing his focus with mindfulness practice until he started using a mantra to "anchor himself" as he describes in this book. Well worth reading.

http://www.luangta.eu/site/books/book10_arahatta/Arahattamagga.pdf

[trd]

And while I am thinking about books, Vincent's comment:

Likewise, I prefer to still my mind during the many interludes throughout the day, during breaks in my general activities and even during certain activities. Such interludes and opportunities to meditate come frequently and naturally.

which is a perfectly legitimate practice reminds me of "I Am That" by Nisargadatta Maharaj which I wholeheartedly recommend. You should read this Vincent.

An excerpt relevant to your comment.

Q: Please tell me which road to self-realisation is the shortest.

Maharaj: No way is short or long, but some people are more in earnest and some are less. I can tell you about myself. I was a simple man, but I trusted my Guru. What he told me to do, I did. He told me to concentrate on 'I am' -- I did. He told me that I am beyond all perceivables and conceivables -- I believed. I gave him my heart and soul, my entire attention and the whole of my spare time (I had to work to keep my family alive). As a result of faith and earnest application, I realised my self (swarupa) within three years.

http://www.holybooks.com/i-am-that-nisargadatta-maharaj/

[Rockhopper]

The sound of one hand clapping!

[dotpoom]

Somewhere along the road of life with many ups and downs I developed an "attitude of gratitude" for how it eventually turned out. I once heard a man say that happiness was seeing the extraordinary in the ordinary...Now I'm there and life is never dull now.

[albro]

Great post, I think you are not by any means alone in having this problem.

 

One simple thing that should be brought up, is meditating in the mornings. I think the rationale is that your mind should be more clear after rest and the environment should be quieter and more conducive to concentration, but also that morning meditation easier to "schedule" - as long as you are willing to get up early, there's nothing stopping you because you won't have anything else planned or anything else calling for your attention at that time. That helps avoid the problem of meditating in the evenings, when you just got out of traffic and the phone may be ringing, your loved ones may be needing things, you may be tempted to try paying the bills or fixing the clogged sink, etc. Of course, the price you pay for morning meditation is the risk of a 'sinking mind', i.e. sleepiness. A lot of people find that overall the trade is worth it, however.

 

I wish I could offer a success story, but I still struggle with this a lot myself. So I can offer only what I said, and the idea that the purpose of mindfulness early on is not necessarily to reach deep concentration every time. You just need to be aware of all the craziness in your head, and watch the pattern of how it comes, how it affects your mind and body, and then how it always disappears. If you're aware of the barriers you are having during meditation, you are already on a fruitful path. Just try to observe them long enough to watch them go away, and that pattern will eventually sink into your brain and be a comfort to you during the rest of the day.

 

Good luck!

[mamypoko]

Over time I've earned a low tolerance for being upset. When I do get bent out of shape, which happens less and less (but still a lot)...I use laughter to break angers hold on me. Sort of saying to Myself "HERE i GO AGAIN...Hee hee hee :)  

[albro]

One other thing that just occurred to me - when you have a hard time being with your breath during meditation, it can be very helpful to switch to doing mettha for a while instead.

 

You don't want to use this as an excuse for not trying hard to sit through your emotions, because that's part of the process of breath meditation. But if you have tried and cannot stay with your breath, mettha gives you something more 'active' to do. The purposefulness of it, and the good emotion that usually accompanies giving mettha, helps to release you from your negative thoughts and keep you from grasping back onto them long enough for them to pass. That's especially true if you can remember to allow some mettha for yourself during the process. When the negative thoughts have crested and receded, you can simply return your mindfulness to the breath.

[KhnomKhnom]

Many writers on this venue can use the time spent ranting about how bad Thailand is and how mean it is not to let them stay here....... use that time instead to do your Buddhist practice.  Will save lots of silly posts.

 

I recommend walking meditation because often you have to walk somewhere, even if to the refrig to get another beer, and there you are..... opportunity to practice.

[troysantos]

Cool .... Several things to say. One, I agree that Nisargadatta's teachings are super. Same with Ramana Maharshi. One guy who's not dead yet whom I think is great is Adyashanti, another would be Jeff Foster - terrific. Adyashanti suggests (as well as others, I think Pema Chodron) not trying to peg your attention on any one thing. You do have to peg your attention on paying attention though! (But I have friends who are serious about their practice yet steer wide of this sort of teaching. Wear whatever suit fits best.) 

 

Adyashanti, and others, like Byron Katie and Krishnamurti, are big on inquiry. Asking questions. This is pretty much the heart of my practice because it sits very well with me. I started doing this long before I ever heard of Buddhism, so it "comes naturally" to me.

 

I also "suffer" from the not having a regular sitting practice and not paying attention when I am sitting. (It's 10pm now and here I am on this computer ) So, if this is of interest to you, you could ask yourself some questions. You say that it's a challenge to maintain a regular practice. If you're only interested in changing the situation, then grab a hammer and start pounding on your head. If you're interested in getting to the root of it ... ask. If this sits well with you, then there you go. My own life shows me that there are other things ... at those moments when I could be sitting ... that I'm more interested in. I could beat myself up for being less interested in sitting than in the other things that have my attention, but what good is that? Some people are "good" at discipline ... but not me. How about you? 

 

I love it when someone says, "I can't do ...." or "Doing ... is hard." Bxllshxt!

"The way I view it, the greatest enemy of successful, regular practice, and ultimately Awakening, for me and perhaps for most, is due to the inability to maintain regular practice."

Here you used this word inability ... are you certain do you know you're unable? Why in hell would you be incapable to simply sit regularly? Do you believe that you can't?

 

Do you know some basic things, like why you want to sit? What do you believe you can get out of it? (I've learned through Zen teachings to not believe in anything! Now try that one on for a while and see what happens!) 

 

Another idea is to go to a temple or a meditation group. Unless you live where there are no serious meditators, it could really help you to commit. Like someone finding it "hard" to work out, but by going to a gym (and buying the membership!) ... motivation arises

 

"In terms of sitting practice my mind has thrown the works at me.

These include doubt, physical ill feeling, anxiety, commitments, unproductive bad habits taking precedence, emotional state and many others.

 

Mindfulness is not only similarly affected but is further hampered by poor concentration levels."

WHY are these things arising / happening? 

 

Something that works for me at times to hold my attention is to try to notice something. One that I particularly like is to notice if I'm ever "in the moment." Seems to me that I'm at best a moment behind, so that everything I'm aware of "in the moment" is actually a memory from the moment just past. A guy who I have some respect for with his practice confirms this. So, when I'm actively paying attention to whether I'm in the moment, or just a moment behind the moment ... at least I'm paying attention. This is a kind of meditation. There are lots of things a person can do while in meditation, whether Buddhist or not ... myself, I'm not that interested in being a Buddhist anyway. 

 

"I'd be greatful for any practical tips and stories of personal success."

No success stories from me either. 

 

So, I'm off ... because I am going to sit tonight ) 

 

P.S. One more thing ... if sitting for an hour is a must, but you dread the length of time, chop off some of those minutes. 

 

) 

Edited July 31, 2014 by troysantos

[merwin64]

I've been a meditator in the Zen tradition for 40 years, but for about 8 years went to Thailand to
train in Achaan Maha Bua's method, and in the Burmese Mahasi Sayadaw tradition. Books about both are widely available in LOS, but let me offer the following: The most important way to overcome your obstacles is to practice DAILY, no matter what. Best to start with only a minute or two, then extend the time as you naturally get into it, which you will. At the beginning, using a mantra like Maha Bua's "Buddho" or Zen's "MU" for the entirety of the breath can be very helpful, or simply count your breath from one to ten (just on the outbreath). If you lose count, just go back to one with no judgement. Also, look only inward, not outward, and place your mind-focus about two inches below your navel. For you, I think that the "Mahasi Sayadaw" technique would be best for many reasons. You can Google that. In brief, place your focus below your navel and simply follow the rising and falling of the abdomen with each breath. If you notice that you're thinking, just mentally note "thinking, thinking" which will return your mind to "Rising/Falling". same with "bored...bored", or anything else that arises. Most importantly, get a Thai monk qualified to teach, and meet with him from time to time. Maha Bua (Boowa)used to say that some people need a teacher daily, others seldom. But daily practice, along with managing your posture , breath and focus, will definitely get you there. May you find peace....Bob Hermer. Oh, mornings are best, or evenings. Pick a regular time and stay with it, through the ups and downs....

[trd]

Very refreshing to see some good posts putting emphasis on practice rather than conceptual ideas. The only idea you need is to be here now.

[spidermike007]

 

I found after several years of practising mindfulness in everyday life I just got bored with it. I don't know which book I sdaw it in, but Thich Nhat Hanh has some good mindfulness tricks. One I remember was imagining that the brake lights of the car in front of you are the Buddha's eyes watching you. Another was putting a pebble in your pocket so that every time you felt it you were reminded to be mindful. The problem is anything can become routine. A Buddha image should remind you to be mindful, but if it just sits on a shelf it soon becomes part of the furniture. Hence the necessity of regular garland offerings.

You might be interested in this. Maha Boowa who was recognised as an arahant talks about how he kept losing his focus with mindfulness practice until he started using a mantra to "anchor himself" as he describes in this book. Well worth reading.

http://www.luangta.eu/site/books/book10_arahatta/Arahattamagga.pdf

 

 

 

 

Good point. Mindfulness is too abstract for the western mind. Probably too abstract for most eastern minds too. If used in conjunction with a meditation technique, it is more practical, and much more progress can be seen. Also, being positive and having the right attitude and perspective, requires a bit of work. It seems the mind is naturally negative, and it takes effort to life it up, and push it to see the positive. But, it does feed upon itself, so positivity begets positivity, and negativity begets negativity. Push yourself. Affirmations are very effective. The mind believes essentially everything you tell it. So, tell it positive stuff. It will believe it. Do not give into to self doubt, or self pity. 

[VincentRJ]

And while I am thinking about books, Vincent's comment:

Likewise, I prefer to still my mind during the many interludes throughout the day, during breaks in my general activities and even during certain activities. Such interludes and opportunities to meditate come frequently and naturally.

which is a perfectly legitimate practice reminds me of "I Am That" by Nisargadatta Maharaj which I wholeheartedly recommend. You should read this Vincent.

An excerpt relevant to your comment.

Q: Please tell me which road to self-realisation is the shortest.

Maharaj: No way is short or long, but some people are more in earnest and some are less. I can tell you about myself. I was a simple man, but I trusted my Guru. What he told me to do, I did. He told me to concentrate on 'I am' -- I did. He told me that I am beyond all perceivables and conceivables -- I believed. I gave him my heart and soul, my entire attention and the whole of my spare time (I had to work to keep my family alive). As a result of faith and earnest application, I realised my self (swarupa) within three years.

http://www.holybooks.com/i-am-that-nisargadatta-maharaj/

 

 

That's an interesting format of question and answer, Trd. Thanks for the link. I haven't read all 396 pages yet, but I'm getting the message from Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj that complete belief in a Guru is recommended. One should give the Guru one's heart and soul, and entire attention. One should trust in him and believe in him completely.

 

This is a real obstacle for me. You see, at the age of 5 (or thereabouts) I began to have doubts about the truth of the Father Christmas (Santa Claus) scenario. It seemed a bit too fanciful for me. So on Christmas Eve (around the age of 5) I decided to keep awake as long as possible, after going to bed, to witness Santa Claus coming down the chimney to fill my stocking with presents. Wow! How exciting! The stocking was attached to the foot of the bed.

 

Alas! What I witnessed was my own father sneaking into my bedroom, probably about midnight before he turned in, to fill my stocking with presents.

 

I have great difficulty in believing in things which appear to be highly improbable, especially if they cannot be clearly described. Belief is the foundation of all religions. Without it, the religions cannot exist.

 

Buddhism appears to be an exception in the sense that it is more of a philosophy than a religion, or can be legitimately considered as a philosophy. That's the main attraction for me.

[rockyysdt]

That's an interesting format of question and answer, Trd. Thanks for the link. I haven't read all 396 pages yet, but I'm getting the message from Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj that complete belief in a Guru is recommended. One should give the Guru one's heart and soul, and entire attention. One should trust in him and believe in him completely.

 

This is a real obstacle for me.

 

 

Perhaps, it's not whether it's wrong to have complete faith in a Guru, but rather, "how does one choose a Guru worthy of complete trust?."

 

What others have said, is that one may encounter many guides, teachers & Gurus along the way.

 

Once on the path of practice, at the coarser levels, there are dozens from whom you can enlist assistance.

This forum alone is a veritable gold mine (Sangha).

 

Once you have gained deeper levels of wisdom through personal experience, my understanding is that guides will appear when they are needed.

 

All you'll need is a level of Awareness to recognize them.

 

 

 

[rockyysdt]

I love it when someone says, "I can't do ...." or "Doing ... is hard." Bxllshxt!

"The way I view it, the greatest enemy of successful, regular practice, and ultimately Awakening, for me and perhaps for most, is due to the inability to maintain regular practice."

Here you used this word inability ... are you certain do you know you're unable? Why in hell would you be incapable to simply sit regularly? Do you believe that you can't?

 

Mindfulness is not only similarly affected but is further hampered by poor concentration levels."

WHY are these things arising / happening? 

 

Something that works for me at times to hold my attention is to try to notice something. One that I particularly like is to notice if I'm ever "in the moment."

 

Thanks very much for your insights t.

 

For me, it's not the sit, but actually getting on the cushion.

 

With patchy Mindfulness (concentration), it's mainly due to my rampant mind which refuses to let go (revolves around anxiety & negativity).
 

[troysantos]

 

Thanks very much for your insights t.

 

For me, it's not the sit, but actually getting on the cushion.

 

With patchy Mindfulness (concentration), it's mainly due to my rampant mind which refuses to let go (revolves around anxiety & negativity).
 

 

What will it take to get you to the cushion? Being part of a group? Making a donation to a charity / organization that you absolutely revile?! There is at least one website, where, if you don't reach your goal (of say sitting three times a week for a month ... whatever you decide) then the money you've pledged will go to that organization! 

 

WHY won't you put yourself on the cushion? Nobody can stop you without tying you up, right? 

 

Could the anxiety and negativity somehow be a subtle reason that you avoid the cushion? 

 

Once you're on the cushion, then yeah, you're there, but the mind isn't "cooperating"? The mind has its own agenda, doesn't it? Doesn't always follow the agenda that the other mind wants it to! 

 

Of course there's tremendous value in discipline. If that's all it takes, then just do it. Solved. Simple. :)

[A1Str8]

There are no enemies. There is just you and your projections.
All the methods and ideas and so called tricks to reach the level you want, achieve mindfulness or whatever you want are just there to further clutter your mind. Then no wonder you get confused and get bored and want to give up. But all the tricks are useless because you are not going to trick nature. It's just not going to happen.
But it doesn't mean it can't be done. It just means that a different approach is needed. As always, it's us that make things complicated but things are easy by nature. It's really simple. It's the mind that interferes with the process. It does so because of us being attached to so many things that are not us. Things we do, roles we fulfill etc. As a result of that the mind keeps racing. To stop that, disattachment is what needed. Then the rest follows suit. The moment you get disattached from all that you are not... The mind becomes empty. There is nothing left.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[troysantos]

... you are not going to trick nature. It's just not going to happen.
But it doesn't mean it can't be done.

 

Cool! I used to live at a Zen center in Korea. One day, during the Dharma Talk, the teacher said something like, "There are some things that can't be known. So how can you know those things that can't be known? ... by wondering." !! Love it. The wondering that he was referring to is a method that is common in Korean Zen but little known outside Korea (and maybe China) called Hwadu which is similar to Koans. 

 

Shunryu Suzuki is quoted: "The most important thing is to find out what is the most important thing." He was big on discipline ... sit no matter what. 

[rockyysdt]

"I Am That" by Nisargadatta Maharaj which I wholeheartedly recommend.

An excerpt relevant to your comment.


http://www.holybooks.com/i-am-that-nisargadatta-maharaj/

 

 

Excellent read so far.

 

I'm looking for inspiration and tips to assist my progress/practice.

 

 

A contradiction which invariably comes up in Dharma teaching:

 

• I am That (P13):    

 

If you choose the breath as your focal point, make yourself fully aware of each in breath & each out breath.

Make sure you know when the breath comes in and when it goes out, but don't follow its course - simply focus on the spot where it passes through.

 

 

Conversely in Buddhadasa Bikkhu's book

 

• The Meditative Development of Mindfulness Breathing (anapanasiti P32):

(Preface: Step 4 of anapanasiti includes the amalgamation of 5 exercises)

 

The first exercise is to closely track the breath as the mind is following it. Run after it so to speak.

Set mindfulness to following the breath as it comes in and as it goes out between two points - one inside and one outside.

The incoming breath comes in at the tip of the nose and ends at the navel.

The outgoing breath starts at the navel  and ends at the tip of the nose.

 

The British resident Monk at Wat Suan Mokkh emphasised that the secret of the breathing practice was not to observe at a single point, but to "chase" the breath.

His personal experience confirmed its superior benefit.

 

 

The concern is that such practice discrepancies may confuse and/or lead to unfruitful practice.

 

Perhaps each of us is unique and may respond differently to differing practices??

Edited August 4, 2014 by rockyysdt

[trd]

You are giving that quote on breathing too much importance. I would read the whole book first. Nisargadatta didn't teach any practices except to focus on the "I am" as his guru told him.

[rockyysdt]

I'll definitely read the whole book.

From a number of sources its been said that one doesn't meditate. It comes when conditions are right.

In "I am That" it quotes descending into long periods of being lost in thought if the practice is not right.

Bikkhu Buddadasa taught that his contradictory technique was the difference.

I know all practice techniques are purely an aid and once progress is achieved these fall away, but initially don't they serve their purpose?

For me this is important as previous long periods of poor results led to long periods of skipping practice. Edited August 4, 2014 by rockyysdt

[rockyysdt]

Maha Boowa placed his focus on mantra but early in the book offered either mantra or breath as ones focus.

I personally favor breath.

He also said that he applied himself earnestly during his entire wakeful days over a considerable period.

I'd hope that when doing this I have the right technique/practice and carry no doubt. Edited August 4, 2014 by rockyysdt

[trd]

I can identify with what Maha Boowa says because using a mantra was my practice for 35 years. In my opinion, and it is only my opinion, I feel that a mantra leads to samadhi more easily than breath alone for most people. But going beyond that, Ramana Maharshi advocated self enquiry which is going directly to the source, the same "I amness" that Nisargadatta talks about as he was taught by his teacher Siddharameshwar Maharaj, who incidentally for Vincent's benefit was not Santa Claus, but a real person as was the Buddha who he admires so much, and rightly so. Edited August 5, 2014 by trd

[rockyysdt]

I can identify with what Maha Boowa says because using a mantra was my practice for 35 years. In my opinion, and it is only my opinion, I feel that a mantra leads to samadhi more easily than breath alone for most people. But going beyond that, Ramana Maharshi advocated self enquiry which is going directly to the source, the same "I amness" that Nisargadatta talks about as he was taught by his teacher Siddharameshwar Maharaj, who incidentally for Vincent's benefit was not Santa Claus, but a real person as was the Buddha who he admires so much, and rightly so.

 

Thanks for the advice T.

 

I have a mantra, have used it, and will now reintroduce it into my practice.

 

Until practice becomes advanced Maha Boowa nested breathing with the mantra.

 

His practice included observation of breath, but as he instructed, to focus at one point.

This contradicts Bikkhu Buddhadasa's instructions to chase the breath.

 

Incidentally, it's far easier to observe breath at one point, but I would prefer to adopt a practice which is more effective rather than one which is initially might be easier to perform.

 

I imagine that all of us will have differing backgrounds and respond differently.

 

What are your thoughts on breath?

 

Many thanks.

[trd]

Before I answer that can you tell me how you use the mantra. Is it similar to how you use breath.