My friend almost denied entry at Suvarnabhum yesterday with Non Imm ED visa.

[MrWorldwide]

I'm with Benmart re the thread title - its unnecessary scaremongering. 

[paz]

Why being so negative to the OP. He was grilled and had not certainty to how it would end.

 

Good he was not refused, true that they not grilled just for fun. 

[Daoregonian]

Has anyone asked 'why' the govt. would want to start enforcing immigration rules as well as potentially making it harder for expats/foreigners to stay for longer terms?  I'm not interested in hearing why people think it is a good idea or what the 'right' thing to do is.  I'm just asking how does Thailand benefit if it is harder for many farang people under 50 to stay for longer periods?  Maybe the governemnt subsidizes things that people buy and farangs are benefiting from a cheaper cost of living?  I have no idea but it seems strange if people who are spending much more than the average into the economy and not breaking laws etc. are now not able to stay......

 

This has happened to me in a couple other countries and it started with 'low hanging fruit' but became something more either due to 'nationalistic' type agendas or other more dubious that I would not think is part of this.  I was in the crowd of expats that was happy to see stragler tourists types get kicked out but it eventually came around and property prices declined which was good for some.  Seriously I'm not trying to be chicken little but would like to understand the mentality before buying a condo.  Obviously I am a bit nervous after my experiences that I am sure are nowhere near similar to here.

[sustento]

 

To become a Thai citizen you have to have lived there for 3 years. You have to take a Thai language test and sing the National Anthem.

There are quite a few posters on Thaivisa who actually made the effort and who are now citizens rather than whining about how difficult it was.

 

Requirements for Thai citizenship are much, much higher than singing the anthem. Don't know why you want to make it seem easy, but it is a laughable attempt, and 3 minutes is all it takes for anyone to learn the truth.

 

I didn't say it was easy. I said it was broadly comparable to what a Thai would need to do to become a UK citizen.

 

http://www.thaivisa.com/acquiring-thai-nationality.html

Edited July 31, 2014 by sustento

[mrfaroukh]

Thanks for the info. There are many people who just go to school to get the visa without attending even one hour. So it is the time for immigration to find out why would you get Ed visa when you don't go to school. Good idea for those who do the same, now time is come to learn the language you enrolled.

[gk10002000]

I personally would agree with the Thai officials that getting an Ed visa to study English in Thailand is a problem.  The Ed visa probably was intented for people that studied Thai, not English or other languages. 

[bangkoklasse]

 

 

 

And so it goes on.. 

 

The "just get a real visa" crowd must be starting to feel a little less sure of themselves. 

They may be asking questions of those that are staying here on ED visas and extensions. It is well known by immigration that there is abuse of this type visa and extensions.

It does not mean there is any planned crackdown on other types of visas or extensions of stay.

 

 

 

I believe that sentence would be improved with a "yet". 

 

In my opinion your post could be called scare or rumor mongering. There has been no indication of any sort of changes. The reports for ED visas and extension has been going on for some time.

 

Yes it's just the usual scare mongering

[MrWorldwide]

I personally would agree with the Thai officials that getting an Ed visa to study English in Thailand is a problem.  The Ed visa probably was intented for people that studied Thai, not English or other languages. 

 

Isnt that for Thai Immigration and the Consulates to decide, not the members of this board ? In this instance, its clear that the IO wasnt initially aware that you could get an Ed visa to study English in Thailand - putting him on the spot and potentially causing him to lose face would only exacerbate the situation IMO. The other reality here is that - for all the criticism the language schools cop on TV - the industry is still an export earner. When I worked for a large university in Australia, we had to continually work around government legislation as it soon became obvious that foreign students would abandon a given degree course en masse if they were no longer going to be eligible for residency upon completion of the degree. It was a massive hole in Australia's Immigration policy but some bright spark in Canberra would periodically decide that the country needed more accountants or engineers or whatever and less IT workers, and the best way to ensure that they knew their stuff was to have them trained in Australian universities. Thailand has no particular need - AFAIK - for Europeans who speak English, but it does need export income. If that means we have the incongruity of a European learning English in Thailand, that's for the Thais to sort - what clearly does need to happen is further education for the IOs if they are going to make arbitrary judgements on who can and cannot enter this country. 

[ubonjoe]

This topic has gotten shorter again because I have again had to remove several posts for assorted reasons.

[jacky54]

Scandinavians are renowned for their English abilities, so if I were an immigration officer and came across one going to Pattaya of all places to improve his, then I'd be more than a little suspicious too.  Far harder for an official to test his English progress than if he were studying Thai, very convenient that.

Edited August 1, 2014 by jacky54

[MrWorldwide]

Im just wondering, if I ever happen to be denied at Suvanaburni, am I forced to go back to the country I flew from, on the same flight?

 

Or can I just say, ok, let me go to the ticket counter and book the next flight to Cambodia/Laos/wherever I want? 

 

Extensively discussed in other threads, but it seems that all Immigration want is to ensure that you leave Thailand. Where it might get interesting is that the airline that flew you to Thailand is supposed to ensure that you have 'proof of onward travel' - if thats a return flight to your home country and you then tell them you'd prefer to fly to one of Thailand's neighbours instead, are they then exempted from any further requirement to remove you from the country ? 

 

For the Australians on the board, there seems to be a difference of opinion as to whether or not international airlines in Oz automatically insist on proof of a return flight to Oz, but in my case they've done so for the last 2 or 3 years. Obviously this would be different if you had a longstay visa for Thailand, but anything less than that will almost certainly see you quizzed at the airport in Oz. 

[ubonjoe]

 

Im just wondering, if I ever happen to be denied at Suvanaburni, am I forced to go back to the country I flew from, on the same flight?

 

Or can I just say, ok, let me go to the ticket counter and book the next flight to Cambodia/Laos/wherever I want? 

 

Extensively discussed in other threads, but it seems that all Immigration want is to ensure that you leave Thailand. Where it might get interesting is that the airline that flew you to Thailand is supposed to ensure that you have 'proof of onward travel' - if thats a return flight to your home country and you then tell them you'd prefer to fly to one of Thailand's neighbours instead, are they then exempted from any further requirement to remove you from the country ? 

For the Australians on the board, there seems to be a difference of opinion as to whether or not international airlines in Oz automatically insist on proof of a return flight to Oz, but in my case they've done so for the last 2 or 3 years. Obviously this would be different if you had a longstay visa for Thailand, but anything less than that will almost certainly see you quizzed at the airport in Oz. 

A return or onward ticket is only needed if you don't have a visa or re-entry permit.

If denied entry you can go to wherever you want as long as you can meet the entry requirements for that country.

[nahkit]

To be honest, what's wrong with an immigration officer asking questions of an arriving traveller? While I agree that travellers should not be hassled, people are getting all jittery because Thai immigration is now actually doing the same sorts of things, asking the same sorts of questions that say Australian or US immigration ask of foreigners, including those on student visas.

 

Simply asking where you are studying, etc. and even verifying your enrolment details if you're a student is NOT a problem, and does NOT mean that the OP's friend was nearly denied. It simply means they were doing their job. Since they were able to prove he was telling the truth, he got through. The only reason to be concerned is if you are NOT genuine i.e. you signed up for a class but don't actually attend.

 

My only concern is if some immigration officers believe an ED visa can only be used for studying Thai or perhaps university studies. That's perhaps another reason they picked up this guy for scrutiny. Genuine students studying Thai, who actually attend classes or have managed to learn Thai some other way should have no problems answering questions in Thai.

 

While I have never been a student of Thai language in Thailand, officially through a locally based school anyway, I managed to learn to speak, read and write the language fluently through taking classes back home and a private tutor in Thailand, as well as a lot of self-based study. I am always delighted to have an immigration officer speak to me in Thai without me first having to tell him or her that I can speak Thai. Either way, the treatment I receive is usually instantly much better than that given towards a non-Thai speaker in my experience. And yes, even at Suvarnabhumi, where most officers can be pretty surly.

 

"I am always delighted to have an immigration officer speak to me in Thai without me first having to tell him or her that I can speak Thai. Either way, the treatment I receive is usually instantly much better than that given towards a non-Thai speaker in my experience"

 

What exactly is this special treatment that you get?

 

Each time I arrive in Thailand I go to the immigration desk, smile, say hello, give them my passport and they stamp it and give it me back. What extra do you get?

 

In 30 years I've never had an immigration officer ask me if I can speak Thai, the vast majority of them never speak a word to me, they just do their job.

[jacko45k]

Another factor might be how long he was outside of Thailand, after all he is suposed to study.

 

And the fact that the standard of English is probably better in his home country, and somewhat closer to England too, where he doesn't need any visa.
 

[mike324]

Today I arrived at bangkom airport. They lady asked me you know you do not have visa anymore because it is expired? I said yes and she stamped for 30 days visa. I think the immigration was right with the norwegian. he was not  refused or visa taken away. I not read that. If a thai person comes to Europe we aske they same questions. Thai person comes to work in Europe they need work permit. Thai people want visa for europe need to show income or money they can live of. What is the differnence exept we still get 30 days any way. Thai people not get when want to go to europe!

 

Now immigration start being more like immigration officers. I see on other forums complaining how the "Bad" foreigners come in etc or kick those not wanted foreigners out etc.

 

If you follow the rules nothing changed! as before only it is more time consuming to get a visa for Thailand.

 

I see no problems for getting visa for Thailand now or in the future.

 

Our money is still welcome same like as in Spain or Greece or any where else.

 

Well said, when a student or person on working visa enters the US or Europe, they are usually question the same way and told to provide proof of address, phone numbers, etc. I don't see why foreigners needs to be offended when a Thai immigration agent questions them the same way.

 

Yes 20 minute is a little long, but many times people on visa education/work entering foreign countries are questioned for 5-10 minute depending on how often they go in and out of the country.

 

There are just too many people abusing all types of visas here including ED that is why immigration are on a clamp down now. No need to be offended, just frustrating and time consuming. I know some folks who did not finish school on ED visa and just use ED as a way of staying to bum around and do random jobs.

 

Same goes for in the US actually, a lot of people use an education visa to stay and work. Most take one or two classes at a community college and take like 10 years to finish a degree, that is one of the major loop holes.

 

On the note of education visa in the States, even if you have a ED Visa (F1) in your passport, you will also need to carry your I-20 (certificate given by the school) if you don't have it when asked, there is a high chance immigration will deny entry (there is always exceptions like the officer could ask you to fill out a form, once you are in the country you have to send some documents etc etc to proof your status) the asshole officers will just deny your entry and ask you to fly home and bring it.

[balo]

I personally would agree with the Thai officials that getting an Ed visa to study English in Thailand is a problem.  The Ed visa probably was intented for people that studied Thai, not English or other languages. 

I disagree, why do you think the schools offer courses in Japanese, Chinese, German and even Russian ?

Not only Thais wants to learn foreign languages. I understand you have to attend the classes so if immigration wants to check that, then fine, let them do it.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[TechnikaIII]

Scandinavians are renowned for their English abilities, so if I were an immigration officer and came across one going to Pattaya of all places to improve his, then I'd be more than a little suspicious too.  Far harder for an official to test his English progress than if he were studying Thai, very convenient that.

"Scandinavians are renowned for their English abilities" .. maybe so in some sectors, but is only because in Scandinavia they show a lot of foreign language film and television with original sound track. Also having small populations, many expensive text books for tertiary studies are only available in English.

However, I lived in Norway for nearly two decades, with frequent visits to Denmark and Sweden. During this period I was teaching English in Norway at secondary school level. Whilst many have competent conversation skills, they are fraught with errors and leave much to be desired when it comes to writing.

There isn't anyone in Scandinavia who would not benefit from additional studies in English.

 

.. and the same goes for people in countries where English is the first language!   

[pete66]

A Norwegian that can't speak English. That's a first 

[SamSipEt]

I realise that we are currently "living in interesting times" but like so many immigration threads at the moment this is being blown out of all proportion.

 

Quite simply the immigration officer asked some perfectly reasonable questions, received some equally reasonable replies and the person in question was allowed entry to Thailand.

 

Why all the fuss?

 

 

[MrWorldwide]

A Norwegian that can't speak English. That's a first 

 

 

Seems the English-speaking population of Norway must be larger than the percentage of Scots who speak the Queen's English then .....  ;)

 

Scotland has three officially recognised languages: English, Scots, and Scottish Gaelic. Almost all Scots speak Scottish English.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_English#Scotticisms

 

Worked with a woman in Oz who spoke with an Australian accent 90% of the time, but lapsed into a thick Scottish brogue when she called her mother in Scotland (from work, of course). Completely unintelligible to my ear - forget the Navaho : they should have used Scots as radio operators in WWII. 

[MikeN]

Probably a daft question, but why Thailand, never mind Pattaya, in order to learn English?

Cheaper, better climate than other alternatives .....and Pattaya does have certain attractions for some  I hear the golf courses are OK ?

[bertty]

 

 

Another factor might be how long he was outside of Thailand, after all he is suposed to study.

by that logic, could we get denied for not looking after wife on non-o supporting spouse re-entry

 

 

A study implies you study, thus not go on long vacations and missing lessons.

 

Marriage does not imply you continuosly stay with your wife. You migth for example need to travel abroad regularly for work or business so you can provide for your family.

 

 

 

Do you know how many weeks holiday teachers have each year ?

[LivinLOS]

I personally would agree with the Thai officials that getting an Ed visa to study English in Thailand is a problem.  The Ed visa probably was intented for people that studied Thai, not English or other languages. 

 

 

You can think that but you would be wrong.. ED is for any genuine study, all those farang children at posh private schools, all those on university courses.. Thai language is just a subset of the education class. 

[brewsterbudgen]

 

I personally would agree with the Thai officials that getting an Ed visa to study English in Thailand is a problem.  The Ed visa probably was intented for people that studied Thai, not English or other languages. 

 

 

You can think that but you would be wrong.. ED is for any genuine study, all those farang children at posh private schools, all those on university courses.. Thai language is just a subset of the education class. 

 

 

Indeed.  I very much doubt that studying Thai was what the Ed Visa was set up for.  Most countries in the world offer an Ed or Student visa for legitimate study.
 

[NanLaew]

 

 

I personally would agree with the Thai officials that getting an Ed visa to study English in Thailand is a problem.  The Ed visa probably was intented for people that studied Thai, not English or other languages. 

 

 

You can think that but you would be wrong.. ED is for any genuine study, all those farang children at posh private schools, all those on university courses.. Thai language is just a subset of the education class. 

 

 

Indeed.  I very much doubt that studying Thai was what the Ed Visa was set up for.  Most countries in the world offer an Ed or Student visa for legitimate study.
 

 

Good point indeed. But for every foreign student on an ED visa, fully compliant with the visa regulations when coming, going or extending and happily studying at Ramkamhaeng, Mahidol, etc.., there's probably at least a dozen malcontent, 'retired at 30', or TEFL'ing, visa-exempt abusing perpetual tourists with a car, condo and a Thai credit card throwing stones at the legally retired and married... and repeatedly getting banged in the arse by that bloody door!
 

[roxnadz]

 

 

"I have been living here on and off LEGALLY on tourist visas"

 

A small point - tourist visa does not grant you right of residence - only a non immigrant visa allows stays of longer than 90 days.

 

Not about to lecture you on visa abuse but if you skirt around the rules knowing fully well you do not comply with regulations then you can hardly cry foul when prevented from re-entering the country...

 

Both you and your money are very welcome - just choose one of the many legal options available. And please stop complaining about options that do not exist.

 

Why don't you just buy an elite card as you are so flush? Sounds like 500k is not a lot to you?

 

 

A tourist visa allows you to enter and remain in the kingdom for up to 60 days, with the ability to extend that entry up to an additional 30 days at Immigration's discretion.

 

You have the ability to get two, sometimes three entries, for a total of up to 269 days on one triple-entry tourist visa.

 

There are no other legal provisions preventing you from using the visa in this way, beyond having funds to support yourself and not engaging in any kind of work while there.

 

God, I wish you "get legal" people would just shut up. People ARE getting legal and they are still getting denied! What is so hard to understand about this?

Edited August 2, 2014 by roxnadz

[phirho]

A tourist visa allows you to enter and remain in the kingdom for up to 60 days, with the ability to extend that entry up to an additional 30 days at Immigration's discretion.

 

 

 

You have the ability to get two, sometimes three entries, for a total of up to 269 days on one triple-entry tourist visa.

 

There are no other legal provisions preventing you from using the visa in this way, beyond having funds to support yourself and not engaging in any kind of work while there.

 

 

No, the law explicitly states that tourist visas (and visa exempt entries) are for tourism purpose only. This legal provision is exactly what is used in the current crackdown against border runners and back to back tourist visas.

 

This is in stark contrast to e.g. NON-O, which does not have the same limitation.

 

The problem is that tourism is a vague term with many corner cases open to discretion of each immigration officer.

[NanLaew]

 

 

 

"I have been living here on and off LEGALLY on tourist visas"

 

A small point - tourist visa does not grant you right of residence - only a non immigrant visa allows stays of longer than 90 days.

 

Not about to lecture you on visa abuse but if you skirt around the rules knowing fully well you do not comply with regulations then you can hardly cry foul when prevented from re-entering the country...

 

Both you and your money are very welcome - just choose one of the many legal options available. And please stop complaining about options that do not exist.

 

Why don't you just buy an elite card as you are so flush? Sounds like 500k is not a lot to you?

 

 

A tourist visa allows you to enter and remain in the kingdom for up to 60 days, with the ability to extend that entry up to an additional 30 days at Immigration's discretion.

 

You have the ability to get two, sometimes three entries, for a total of up to 269 days on one triple-entry tourist visa.

 

There are no other legal provisions preventing you from using the visa in this way, beyond having funds to support yourself and not engaging in any kind of work while there.

 

God, I wish you "get legal" people would just shut up. People ARE getting legal and they are still getting denied! What is so hard to understand about this?

 

 

It's those that are BELATEDLY trying to 'get legal' that are getting the shaft. The ones with a 'prior history' in Thailand that is evident in their passport. If you have a passport chock full of previous visa exempt entries and you suddenly turn up with a shiny new LOCALLY ISSUED Tourist visa... and you have no checked baggage... and you have your car already sitting in the airport parking... and a Thai credit card. I mean if YOU were the Immigration grunt, what would YOU think?

[Tomtomtom69]

 

To be honest, what's wrong with an immigration officer asking questions of an arriving traveller? While I agree that travellers should not be hassled, people are getting all jittery because Thai immigration is now actually doing the same sorts of things, asking the same sorts of questions that say Australian or US immigration ask of foreigners, including those on student visas.

 

Simply asking where you are studying, etc. and even verifying your enrolment details if you're a student is NOT a problem, and does NOT mean that the OP's friend was nearly denied. It simply means they were doing their job. Since they were able to prove he was telling the truth, he got through. The only reason to be concerned is if you are NOT genuine i.e. you signed up for a class but don't actually attend.

 

 

You have seen the multiple other threads where people HAVE been denied havent you ?? 

 

And comparing countries with social security nets, and free healthcare and multiple assorted benefits, with a country that offers none of those things, hence faces almost no costs for anyone visiting, is not quite the same thing. 

 

 

WHat you're saying is that Thai immigration officials are not allowed to ask a traveller any questions when they arrive, just because in the past that was the usual practice?! And you're also saying that any questions asked are proof that you might be denied entry? Come on get real. You completely misinterpreted my post. The reason WHY Thai immigration asks questions IS the same as any immigration official from any other country, whether Aussie, American, Russian, even Bengali. They want to make sure the traveler in question is eligible to enter based on their visa class. Just because there are no social security benefits in Thailand for anyone (not even Thais) has nothing to do with this.
 

[Grateful farang]

The system is now being tough.
Do you realise the hardship it would take for a thai person to get into the uk or eu
But europeans think they have the right to come and go out of thailand with the flimsiest reasons.
Why does your friend not speak 1 word of thai?

Sawasdee = hello
Laa gon = goodbye
Ngern = money
Soi = alley/small road/pathway
Hong = hotel room/apartment
Nam = water
Aahaan thai = thai food
Poo ying = woman
Baht = thai currency
Chowpbing = shopping
Wan yut = holiday/vacation
Deum = drink
Teewee = television
Toh = telephone
Proong nee = tomorrow
wan nee = today
Wan jan = Monday
wan ang kaan = Tuesday
Wan puot = Wednesday
Pa-re u-hat-sa-bor-dee = Thursday
Wan suk = Friday
Wan tee = Saturday
Wan aa-ti t = Sunday
Friend = peuan
Rot-yon = car
Dtam-ruat = police
Raan aa-ha an = restaurant
Kaao = rice
Early = yen
Saai = late
Wit-gee = whiskey
Boo ree = cigarette
Jaai = PAY
Ga roo naa = please
Kop koon = thank you
Rohng raem = hotel/motel/hostel


Its quite easy if you try!
Tell your friend to stop taking the piss

Laa gon!