Condo swimming pool. Is it a common area?

[ChiangraiTony]

I purchased a condo in a building that's approximately 25 years old. During that time the swimming pool was inoperative (closed) due to new construction of an adjacent building. Periodically construction material debris would fall from the new construction worksite into the pool of the condo. Now, all construction is completed and the management of my condo has performed some repairs on the swimming pool. The poo is now open but they are charging 50 baht per person to use it between the hours of 10am to 6pm.

Question: #1. Can the management of the condo charge a fee for using the pool and decide on the hours of operation without condo co owners input or vote? I was under the assumption that the pool should be considered as a "common" area but maybe I am mistaken.

Question: #2. The condo management was asked why they are charging a fee. Management stated that it's expensive to operate with the electric pumps, etc...The management then stated that if the pool usage shows little participation they will closer the pool by the end of this year. They will fill the pool with cement and soil and convert the area to a garden. Can the condo management do this without first having co owners vote? Do the co owners have any rights and if so, what can we do about this situation? The management just seems to do what they choose.

Note: A bit of history. As I understand it, a couple of years ago when the pool was open it was for co owners use and without any usage fee.

Thank you for taking my questions.

[Smokin Joe]

The Management Committee (Made up of co-owners) makes the decisions like this. Your input as a co-owner is who you vote for to be on the committee.

The person you probably talk to is the hired manager that just implements the decisions made by the committee.

[Thighlander]

Try buying in a golf course community...you think it will be free golf? More like nickel and diming you to death. Banwangtan charged 20 for residents and 30 to non-residents...and there were annual passes. Made perfect sense to me, and the trend is towards a la carte services in the condos....even the elevator usage. They can program your key card to work for the services you pay for. Keeps fees down, which keeps rents down, and focusses money on the specific services.

Generally, pools and Thais don't go together.....I'm glad my condo has none of it.....there are gyms and pools that I can go to, if needed.

[Greenside]

Sounds like you are talking about Viengping. My experience was that the co-owners had no say in the running of the place and the management did exactly what it liked, including at one point levying a charge on anyone using the lifts to take construction materials up to a renovation. Attempts to get the place running properly came to nothing (don't think we didn't try) and in the end, anyone who wanted a life gave it up as a bad job and quit. You may like to check the records (should you be able to get hold of any) but when I sold my condo there was still a legal action brought by the Land Office against the Juristic Person for multiple infringements of the Condo Act languishing in a drawer somewhere in a local police station. Finding out why might be instructive....

As for the pool, they introduced a charge a few years ago with no consultation but then failed to keep the pool in good order so no one wanted to use it anyway. If you simply want to swim rather than fight for your rights then go to the excellent pool next door at Greenhill Place.

[pitchag]

Sounds like you are talking about Viengping. My experience was that the co-owners had no say in the running of the place and the management did exactly what it liked, including at one point levying a charge on anyone using the lifts to take construction materials up to a renovation. Attempts to get the place running properly came to nothing (don't think we didn't try) and in the end, anyone who wanted a life gave it up as a bad job and quit. You may like to check the records (should you be able to get hold of any) but when I sold my condo there was still a legal action brought by the Land Office against the Juristic Person for multiple infringements of the Condo Act languishing in a drawer somewhere in a local police station. Finding out why might be instructive....

As for the pool, they introduced a charge a few years ago with no consultation but then failed to keep the pool in good order so no one wanted to use it anyway. If you simply want to swim rather than fight for your rights then go to the excellent pool next door at Greenhill Place.

who is the management company for this condo we are having a similar battle and I wonder if it is the same company

[mr chow]

You can't own and house and now condo natzi's are making condo life difficult.

Why YOU PEOPLE HAVE TO OWN puzzles me. You are all buying into a bubble if not a glut of new condos.

Rent! You don't like something move.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[iancnx]

Address you concerns to the chairperson of the committee. If there is none, it ain't legal as simple as that. Additionally major decisions that you describe needs to be put to the vote of all co owners. Where it all goes wrong is in a poorly managed building where the Thai ownership are all in arrears on the management charges and the sinking fund has been plundered long ago. Accounts in disarray and therefore no money to pay for the pool maintenance. I suspect your building falls into this category?

[baywatch82]

Viengping condo is in very good and expensive location. Next door Moda condo is selling small studios for 2.5mln baht and everything sold already.

Viengping condo is re-painted from outside (looks much better) and swimming pool is now operative. This is in great interest of everybody who own any room there - increases value of your rooms and will be easer to sell it.

In this case my advice would be - ask management to calculate monthly expense of keeping swimming pool operation. Then devide this by number of rooms in the building and increase common area fee for every room. This would not be a big increase. Lets say it costs 10,000 baht per month to keep the pool operational. If we have 100 rooms, each room will have 100baht monthly fee increase. This is the same if you go to the pool only 2 times per month. And much more people will use it if they have feeling it is for free.

Sure, some people will not be happy with it, as they will say they never use the swimming pool. But as I said, this is in great interest of EVERY owner to keep it operational, just for the good image and possibly value increase.

[Thighlander]

Some of the condo fees are just too low. They are only 2-300 per month for some studios, and that can seem attractive at first, what you get is large amounts of deferred maintenance that will come back to bite the owners in the arse. I bought into a 26 year old building, with no pool/fitness and get charged 30 psm per month. But...our staff get paid on time, and they are continually doing scheduled maintenance like tree trimming, and just replaced the alarm/emergency system.

A new roof is expensive, but not nearly as expensive as having a leaky roof. As far as the Boards and meetings, it should be in plain site in the lobby...in Thai, of course. 10,000 per month should cover pool operation, but that wouldn't cover the capital expenditures that pools often require. We had to retrofit or drains in the US, under new child safety laws.....about 1 million thb per pool. If you leave them drained for a prolonged period, they will need to be replastered, as well. Pool can be a big pink elephant. I've seen a company that all they do is convert pools to deck/gardens...and that was in an area with an 8 month unheated swimming season.

[evenstevens]

Address you concerns to the chairperson of the committee. If there is none, it ain't legal as simple as that. Additionally major decisions that you describe needs to be put to the vote of all co owners. Where it all goes wrong is in a poorly managed building where the Thai ownership are all in arrears on the management charges and the sinking fund has been plundered long ago. Accounts in disarray and therefore no money to pay for the pool maintenance. I suspect your building falls into this category?

betting plunge,^^^^now odds on

c/t if your o/p is correct..u are getting shafted.get the fliuffed out of the place,even at a loss

[Thighlander]

You can't own and house and now condo natzi's are making condo life difficult.

Why YOU PEOPLE HAVE TO OWN puzzles me. You are all buying into a bubble if not a glut of new condos.

Rent! You don't like something move.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

I own for the 9% tax free return I am getting, as opposed to renting an identical unit. For July, it may have been the best investment I own. Might have even beat the Expat Club gurus......

[baywatch82]

You can't own and house and now condo natzi's are making condo life difficult.

Why YOU PEOPLE HAVE TO OWN puzzles me. You are all buying into a bubble if not a glut of new condos.

Rent! You don't like something move.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

This is not discussion about this subject. But if you really want to know : I own 3 condos. 2 of them give me yearly return of 12% plus value increase over years. I live in the 3rd one, instead of paying other people.

If you are familiar with new condo restrictions over Chiang Mai, you can easily forget about any possible bubble in the near (5-10 years) future.

[hmficc]

You must be very rich and justly proud of yourself.

[iancnx]

You can't own and house and now condo natzi's are making condo life difficult.

Why YOU PEOPLE HAVE TO OWN puzzles me. You are all buying into a bubble if not a glut of new condos.

Rent! You don't like something move.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

This is not discussion about this subject. But if you really want to know : I own 3 condos. 2 of them give me yearly return of 12% plus value increase over years. I live in the 3rd one, instead of paying other people.

If you are familiar with new condo restrictions over Chiang Mai, you can easily forget about any possible bubble in the near (5-10 years) future.

Can you please clarify your last sentence..... New condo restrictions?

[bristolgeoff]

^{if you pay a charge or management charge where you live,that must include a pool charge I imagine.if it does why not say something.condos have many problems in cm for sure.maybe look into the small print where u live or join the board where you live}

[Nowisee]

You can't own and house and now condo natzi's are making condo life difficult.

Why YOU PEOPLE HAVE TO OWN puzzles me. You are all buying into a bubble if not a glut of new condos.

Rent! You don't like something move.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

This is something I have wrestled with for over a year. I have always thought ownership is overrated.

But, the math is simple. 2.4mil, divided by 8 years divided by 12 months. Which is what I think condo rentals will average over the next 10-12 years. You have paid for your place. You can rent it out if you don't like the location and want to move where you live.

You can sell it, if after 5 years you take a loss on the sale price, you are still ahead of the game in some regards... renting is a total toilet flush.

My struggle is, will I really want to stay in thailand that long.

The other struggle is, houses are much better dollar value.

Often times I'd just like to bounce around 3 months at a time in a guest house... then again, I'd love to move out to the boonies and stay.

[northernjohn]

You can't own and house and now condo natzi's are making condo life difficult.

Why YOU PEOPLE HAVE TO OWN puzzles me. You are all buying into a bubble if not a glut of new condos.

Rent! You don't like something move.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

This is something I have wrestled with for over a year. I have always thought ownership is overrated.

But, the math is simple. 2.4mil, divided by 8 years divided by 12 months. Which is what I think condo rentals will average over the next 10-12 years. You have paid for your place. You can rent it out if you don't like the location and want to move where you live.

You can sell it, if after 5 years you take a loss on the sale price, you are still ahead of the game in some regards... renting is a total toilet flush.

My struggle is, will I really want to stay in thailand that long.

The other struggle is, houses are much better dollar value.

Often times I'd just like to bounce around 3 months at a time in a guest house... then again, I'd love to move out to the boonies and stay.

I see where you have figured the cost as well as the alternatives of freedom to move around. Many people do not realize that many of us are retired and not interested in saving money for are old age we are already there. For myself I have done it all. I now choose to walk free of property obligations. If some thing goes wrong call the owner. If not satisfied or I see some thing I like better take it.

We all have different values. The one thing I never hear from the owners selling at a good price is how long do they have to hang on to it to sell it?