Holiday in Thailand could end for expats

[affen02]

Got my yearly extension of my NON O RE resterday. Only new thing this year was that i had to sign a paper that i had read and understood the penalties for overstay. Otherwise same same easy.

[larsjohnsson]

I am still waiting to read a post that contains some confirmed date of when the blacklisting is to start. People keep posting when they think it might start. Can't someone in immigration just tell everyone when ?
I have also asked if the mods can pin a thread and lock it with just confirmed press releases to save people trawling through pages of people slagging off over stayers etc. ? 

Anybody that still stay in Thailand with a long overstay, and waiting for the last day to leave ;) is crazy.
Both you and your "friend" know about it. If not leaving now with all this info, I can't say I'm sorry if he get blacklisted Edited August 2, 2014 by larsjohnsson

[kaobang]

The title of the article should read "Holiday in Thailand could end for expats who VIOLATE Visa laws"    I say more power to the government in enforcing its visa laws, those expats who do not abide by them should be kicked out of the country   I just wish that the U.S. had leadership that would enforce our visa/immigration laws

bullshit.i never violated any law,for sure.i never was on overstay

Edited August 2, 2014 by kaobang

[CroBiker]

 

He had to cancel plans for a $6,000 medical operation and switch to a hospital in Singapore.

 

Yeah right....what a lie

[gbswales]

The title of the article should read "Holiday in Thailand could end for expats who VIOLATE Visa laws"    I say more power to the government in enforcing its visa laws, those expats who do not abide by them should be kicked out of the country   I just wish that the U.S. had leadership that would enforce our visa/immigration laws

 

The people who will be hit the most (excluding people who want to work illegally) are those younger people with a moderate income which is not enough to support them without working in their home country but who can live comfortably on the same income in Thailand.  I reckon for example that you could lead a comfortable basic life on the equivilent of £10,000 pa -  sure accommodation would be B&B standard, no car and simple life without luxuries - though many would count the beaches and weather as a major luxury!  To do the same in the UK for example would cost you double that with bad weather to go with it.  People like this are not undesirable - just not materialistic.  However with that kind of income (which could be earned for example by letting your property in the UK) you would not be able to satisfy any of the requirements to obtain a visa to live legally in Thailand unless you get married (then you would need a lot more money anyway!!)

 

Surely it would be much better to have a resident visa - renewable annually for about 10,000Bht that placed only the following conditions

1) Accommodation in Thailand as a registered address

2) No rescourse to any form of public funding or support

3) No right to take paid employment though I dont see why voluntary work or study should be excluded (in fact these could be encouraged)

4) No criminal activity - including begging

 

It is a shame that there are fewer and fewer places in the world where you can enjoy a simple basic life to get away from the stress of modern life in the west

[Guest]

 

 

Well, we don't accept it either when immigration rules are abused or exploited in our home countries, there's no reasons Thailand should be more lax.

Exactly.

The large Russian community running business's in Phuket was a prime example of tourist visa abuse.

Thailand has tens of thousands of Farangs working under the radar and using so called visa runs.

For them the end is near and they do not have my sympathy.

Get the correct visa and you will have no problem with immigration.

Then rather than abolish entry stamps for the majority of people who are simply frequent visitors who like come to Thailand and stay in hotels and spend money and contribute to the economy and do nothing that isn't good for the country, why not just pay a visit to Russian businesses and demand to see work permits? Same goes for other illegal workers.

Talk about throwing out the baby with the bath water, but this crackdown is just plain dumb. Most people are perfectly legitimate, I know lots of people who visit many times a year and do nothing wrong. If they don't stay long enough to need a tourist visa, I.e., entry stamps are appropriate, then what exactly is the problem with that? I wish somebody would just say something half way sensible as an answer...just partially intelligent would do.

These people who visit several times a year on entry stamps didn't force the immigration officer to stamp their passport, that's what Thailand provides to short term visitors and there is no rule or guideline that says you can only have a certain number of these before you become branded as some kind of undesirable.

And by the way on the entry card that you fill out on the plane, tourism is the only appropriate answer I can see. I don't come on business, to work, to attend meetings, to get married. I stay in hotels, I go to restaurants, I go to bars, I go shopping. I do that several times a year in Thailand. So what is it that makes doing that once great, twice great, three times fine, four times fantastic, but suddenly, at five, say, or six, it becomes a terrible abuse?

How is it that if I visit, say, four times a year for 4 weeks each time I'm a tourist contributing to Thai GDP, but as soon as it becomes 5 or 6 times I'm no longer a contribution to the Thai economy's and instead am an abusive and undesirable criminal? Can someone answer that....in an intelligent way....by the way "just get the correct visa" isn't intelligent, before another dim wit says it.







Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

 

Hey Paddyjenkins,

Thank you for a well written and delightful read.  You have hit the nail on the head, and the only reason I can furnish is this:

There is no reasonable reason.

Several years ago I was in this type of conversation with an friend from Norway.

He stopped me in my tracks, and in a sense, set me free from worry, since the simplistic depth if his statement is irrefutable in Thailand.

Ready?

"When logic meets culture ... culture wins."

 

 

[Johnnie99]

Whining about the laws again?

 

Really, commenters.

 

Don't like it is this country enforces it's own laws?

 

Go home.

[NomadJoe]

The title of the article should read "Holiday in Thailand could end for expats who VIOLATE Visa laws"    ...

 

Not really though. This is about people working here. Says so right in the article. Many, many people not violating visa laws but live here legally, (the term has always been "longstay tourists") are getting caught up in this. There needs to be no proof, only suspicion that the person may be working here in order to disallow entry. I feel sorry for the surely thousands of people that have moved here, have families and investments, who's lives are going the be torn apart. On the bright side, it'll get rid of a lot of the scum living here, which is a lot of people.

[JLCrab]

Ergo:

 

We're smart.

They're dumb.

They should be happy to have us around so maybe they can become smart like us.

[wlcart]

 

Surely it would be much better to have a resident visa - renewable annually for about 10,000Bht that placed only the following conditions

1) Accommodation in Thailand as a registered address

2) No rescourse to any form of public funding or support

3) No right to take paid employment though I dont see why voluntary work or study should be excluded (in fact these could be encouraged)

4) No criminal activity - including begging

 

 

Be nice if every country in the world did the same.  Freedom of movement I say. 

[me313]

Many fun days ahead for the sadistic hateful Immigration offices--not naming one specific office where, to use a metaphor, they don't even clean the dust on their Buddhist alter but leave it caked with grime and dirt and dust--symbolic for sure. Many good jokes and fun experiences ahead for these wonderful lovely characters---and then I will also have to include the Thai officials working in the same offices as well. 

[Suradit69]

The title of the article should read "Holiday in Thailand could end for expats who VIOLATE Visa laws"    I say more power to the government in enforcing its visa laws, those expats who do not abide by them should be kicked out of the country   I just wish that the U.S. had leadership that would enforce our visa/immigration laws

 

Yes, and although the use of the word "holiday" in the title can reasonably be applied to those who have been getting away with long term stays using dubious methods and exploiting lax enforcement of rules & regulations, at first glance it could be upsetting to those who are here or are intending to come here as legitimate tourists on holiday.

 

People in these forums keep talking about "changing laws" and "moving the goals posts," but it is largely a matter of enforcing existing laws & regulations, none of which should cause difficulties for most people who are genuine tourists or who are here using appropriate visas and extensions. Unfortunately there may be some problems created for a few people, like those who are working off shore on rotation, but the blame for the stricter application of the law and collateral damage still lies with those who have been exploiting it ... and those who have "generously" advised them how to exploit the loopholes.

Edited August 2, 2014 by Suradit69

[harleyclarkey]

This is a tough one.

 

I fully respect the Thai's right to enforce their immigration rules. 

 

On the other hand they have been lax in the past and allowed foreigners to build up their life in Thailand. I pity those that will have to up sticks and move....to where????

 

The new law is far too harsh. If a foreign resident/over stayer can show that he is contributing to the Thai economy then there should be exemptions.

Edited August 2, 2014 by harleyclarkey

[slipperylobster]

Looks to me like there will be a big surplus of cold beer and hot gals, in days to come.

[IAMSOBAD]

Blame the officers not the public for illegals being here.
Punish them NOT us.

[Mab]

Well, I am not against to rules but only how they are implemented.

[max72]

 

 

Well, we don't accept it either when immigration rules are abused or exploited in our home countries, there's no reasons Thailand should be more lax.

Exactly.

The large Russian community running business's in Phuket was a prime example of tourist visa abuse.

Thailand has tens of thousands of Farangs working under the radar and using so called visa runs.

For them the end is near and they do not have my sympathy.

Get the correct visa and you will have no problem with immigration.

Then rather than abolish entry stamps for the majority of people who are simply frequent visitors who like come to Thailand and stay in hotels and spend money and contribute to the economy and do nothing that isn't good for the country, why not just pay a visit to Russian businesses and demand to see work permits? Same goes for other illegal workers.

Talk about throwing out the baby with the bath water, but this crackdown is just plain dumb. Most people are perfectly legitimate, I know lots of people who visit many times a year and do nothing wrong. If they don't stay long enough to need a tourist visa, I.e., entry stamps are appropriate, then what exactly is the problem with that? I wish somebody would just say something half way sensible as an answer...just partially intelligent would do.

These people who visit several times a year on entry stamps didn't force the immigration officer to stamp their passport, that's what Thailand provides to short term visitors and there is no rule or guideline that says you can only have a certain number of these before you become branded as some kind of undesirable.

And by the way on the entry card that you fill out on the plane, tourism is the only appropriate answer I can see. I don't come on business, to work, to attend meetings, to get married. I stay in hotels, I go to restaurants, I go to bars, I go shopping. I do that several times a year in Thailand. So what is it that makes doing that once great, twice great, three times fine, four times fantastic, but suddenly, at five, say, or six, it becomes a terrible abuse?

How is it that if I visit, say, four times a year for 4 weeks each time I'm a tourist contributing to Thai GDP, but as soon as it becomes 5 or 6 times I'm no longer a contribution to the Thai economy's and instead am an abusive and undesirable criminal? Can someone answer that....in an intelligent way....by the way "just get the correct visa" isn't intelligent, before another dim wit says it.







Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

 

 

That won't happen.

The criminals, illegals and abusers will always find their ways to stay through bribes, while genuine tourists will be scared away, threated like the worst criminals on earth not to carry a passport inside the sea while swimming or while they dared to come back to Thailand for more than 3 months a year (6 months every two years and you are already a suspected criminal, just because you spend more time and money in Thailand).

In few months we can expect a total economic collapse with widespread misery and a rampant rise of crime due to unemployment and the illegals still here 

[maxman71]

I first arrived in LOS in Phuket in 2005 on a tourist visa and did one visa run before establishing a Thai Limited Co. and converting to a Non-Imm B as I began doing consulting work in Asia Pac for former bosses in the US. I also obtained a WP. Mind you back then the abuse of the tourist visa was rampant in Thailand and a lot of people thought I was crazy for going the legitimate route.

 

Add to this the whole issue of reporting overseas bank accounts (I am a US citizen) and all the additional tax reporting for running a Thai Limited Co. But I did it anyway before all the US IRS crackdowns on filing FBAR's, and now FATCA is in full force. I have been in compliance with all of this since 2005, and like the Thai visa issue, people thought I was nuts for "volunteering" to pay US taxes and report all the activities of my financial life overseas.

 

But here we are today with a no-nonsense military-run government in Thailand and the US turning its' citizens upside down for every nickel in taxes they can squeeze out of them. And if a Yank is caught not being in compliance, may God help you. And if you have been a Thai visa scofflaw, the party is OVER unless you can get your act together very quickly.

 

Funny thing is, being in compliance is not that big of a deal once you know your way around all the forms and you pay what you owe. There are actually pretty decent tax incentives for a US expat if you handle your affairs correctly.

 

Funny thing is for me, it's not the visa crackdowns or the FATCA/FBAR stuff that's starting to concern me, it's more that I see Thailand possibly changing its view of westerners in general, and making a "pivot" to favor China and how this will play out going forward. It may be a strategic decision for Thailand and I am not taking issue with this as the Thais need to manage their country as they see fit. It is merely  an observation as to what will be best for me in retirement, as that day is approaching in the next few years.

 

So, while I am still seriously considering retiring in Thailand, I am expanding my options to places like Panama, Costa Rica, etc. Whatever I decide, my experiences in Thailand are unforgettable and the Thai people in general are awesome.

 

 

[Jiu-Jitsu]

 

 

Well, we don't accept it either when immigration rules are abused or exploited in our home countries, there's no reasons Thailand should be more lax.

Exactly.

The large Russian community running business's in Phuket was a prime example of tourist visa abuse.

Thailand has tens of thousands of Farangs working under the radar and using so called visa runs.

For them the end is near and they do not have my sympathy.

Get the correct visa and you will have no problem with immigration.

Then rather than abolish entry stamps for the majority of people who are simply frequent visitors who like come to Thailand and stay in hotels and spend money and contribute to the economy and do nothing that isn't good for the country, why not just pay a visit to Russian businesses and demand to see work permits? Same goes for other illegal workers.

Talk about throwing out the baby with the bath water, but this crackdown is just plain dumb. Most people are perfectly legitimate, I know lots of people who visit many times a year and do nothing wrong. If they don't stay long enough to need a tourist visa, I.e., entry stamps are appropriate, then what exactly is the problem with that? I wish somebody would just say something half way sensible as an answer...just partially intelligent would do.

These people who visit several times a year on entry stamps didn't force the immigration officer to stamp their passport, that's what Thailand provides to short term visitors and there is no rule or guideline that says you can only have a certain number of these before you become branded as some kind of undesirable.

And by the way on the entry card that you fill out on the plane, tourism is the only appropriate answer I can see. I don't come on business, to work, to attend meetings, to get married. I stay in hotels, I go to restaurants, I go to bars, I go shopping. I do that several times a year in Thailand. So what is it that makes doing that once great, twice great, three times fine, four times fantastic, but suddenly, at five, say, or six, it becomes a terrible abuse?

How is it that if I visit, say, four times a year for 4 weeks each time I'm a tourist contributing to Thai GDP, but as soon as it becomes 5 or 6 times I'm no longer a contribution to the Thai economy's and instead am an abusive and undesirable criminal? Can someone answer that....in an intelligent way....by the way "just get the correct visa" isn't intelligent, before another dim wit says it.







Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

 

 

Where does it say that if you visit 5 or 6 times you become an undesirable?

 

As long as your visits are clearly not back to back and you have some evidence that your visit is for tourism, you should not have a problem.

If you have some unusual circumstances, get them notarised in Thai script. Be prepared for the questions that they have told you that they will be asking. Stop whining, as it will do you no good.

 

The problem is if you stay the whole period of the visa/visa exemption and then try to leave and return soon after.

 

If you stay for just two weeks each time.....you are more likely to be a tourist in their eyes. Doing that five or six times a year is unlikely to be a problem. But have some paperwork with you just in case. You'll have your departure ticket, so what is the issue?

 

You are making a mountain out of a molehill. 

[chrisinth]

To tell the same lie too many times, the day will come when the person telling the lie believes it to be the truth.

 

What is very similar to the above is that if someone is allowed to knowingly exploit rules and regulations, the day will surely come, when the laws are enforced that they will not be believed by the people exploiting them. Selective understanding at its best.

 

BTW, I do feel sorry for the ones that are just living here that have been caught up in this.......................

[Jay Sata]

Let me give you an example of running a business in Thailand under the radar. My sons were recently on a diving holiday in Phuket and stayed at a really nice apartment in Karon booked through. AirbnB. This is a global website designed to let you avoid hotel costs by booking apartments.

This condo with sea view was one of three owned by a Russian woman. The stay cost less than half what a high end hotel would charge and as the booking took place in cyberspace no funds ever entered Thailand.

However to manage the apartments the Russian owner needs to stay in Thailand on tourist visas doing regular runs.

That loophole is now closed.

The same applies to all the Farangs running bars etc .

Very few countries in the world will allow visa abuse and Thailand is closing the door and rightly so.

[usasia8888]

The title of the article should read "Holiday in Thailand could end for expats who VIOLATE Visa laws"    I say more power to the government in enforcing its visa laws, those expats who do not abide by them should be kicked out of the country   I just wish that the U.S. had leadership that would enforce our visa/immigration laws

[Maestro]

I am still waiting to read a post that contains some confirmed date of when the blacklisting is to start. People keep posting when they think it might start. Can't someone in immigration just tell everyone when ?

I have also asked if the mods can pin a thread and lock it with just confirmed press releases to save people trawling through pages of people slagging off over stayers etc. ? 

 

"The new regulation of overstaying penalties is now under the procedure of approval by the Ministry of Interior."

Source: http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/overstay.png

 

This means that the matter is now in the hands of the Ministry of Interior and immigration cannot at this point set a date for its entry into force. If and when this new rule is approved and the definitive version as approved is published, it will be included in the pinned topic Important Visa Information  --> Useful Immigration Information & Visa Descriptions --> Laws, Regulations, Police Orders, etc. In the meantime, this pinned topic includes a link to immigration's proposal of this draconian new policy.

 

There is this separate topic on the proposal to blacklist overstayers. Foreigners on overstay are advised to clear their overstay without delay.

[John1thru10]

Good article and interesting that a big media organisation has picked up on the visa 'crackdown' (or whatever you want to call it).

 

That said, I'm not sure that there is any real 'new' info here we haven't already read on Thai Visa.

 

Still an interesting read for a Saturday morning

 

It also couldn't be more soft-soaped compared to the statements inside the actual country.
 

[bubba]

Gotta love these TV headlines. I'm an expat with a visa and work permit, and until I read this retread story, I thought maybe I would not be allowed to have holidays in Thailand any more. 

[usasia8888]

i agree. i have never had a problem coming or going and 100% of my friends, colleagues and acquaintances never had problems staying as they followed the visa rules always. my wife and i are planning on retirement in phuket most likely. with all that i know first hand and read, the tightening or maybe better said enforcement of rules, the military ensuring better conditions like beaches taxis, clamping down on illegal land ownership, buildings, etc. makes it more attractive. im honestly shocked at how much many non thai just didnt follow the rules and yet while many of them complain, their home countries wouldnt allow overstaying, not paying taxes, etc.

[usasia8888]

i agree. i have never had a problem coming or going and 100% of my friends, colleagues and acquaintances never had problems staying as they followed the visa rules always. my wife and i are planning on retirement in phuket most likely. with all that i know first hand and read, the tightening or maybe better said enforcement of rules, the military ensuring better conditions like beaches taxis, clamping down on illegal land ownership, buildings, etc. makes it more attractive. im honestly shocked at how much many non thai just didnt follow the rules and yet while many of them complain, their home countries wouldnt allow overstaying, not paying taxes, etc.

[John1thru10]

 

The title of the article should read "Holiday in Thailand could end for expats who VIOLATE Visa laws"    I say more power to the government in enforcing its visa laws, those expats who do not abide by them should be kicked out of the country   I just wish that the U.S. had leadership that would enforce our visa/immigration laws

 

The people who will be hit the most (excluding people who want to work illegally) are those younger people with a moderate income which is not enough to support them without working in their home country but who can live comfortably on the same income in Thailand.  I reckon for example that you could lead a comfortable basic life on the equivilent of £10,000 pa -  sure accommodation would be B&B standard, no car and simple life without luxuries - though many would count the beaches and weather as a major luxury!  To do the same in the UK for example would cost you double that with bad weather to go with it.  People like this are not undesirable - just not materialistic.  However with that kind of income (which could be earned for example by letting your property in the UK) you would not be able to satisfy any of the requirements to obtain a visa to live legally in Thailand unless you get married (then you would need a lot more money anyway!!)

 

Surely it would be much better to have a resident visa - renewable annually for about 10,000Bht that placed only the following conditions

1) Accommodation in Thailand as a registered address

2) No rescourse to any form of public funding or support

3) No right to take paid employment though I dont see why voluntary work or study should be excluded (in fact these could be encouraged)

4) No criminal activity - including begging

 

It is a shame that there are fewer and fewer places in the world where you can enjoy a simple basic life to get away from the stress of modern life in the west

 

 

That's why the retirees here are actually so happy, if you ask me.  Years ago when they came here, they felt 'in charge, entitled'...the 'great white man'.  Then, younger more attractive people started coming, and...voila, the old men didn't carry as much authority around with them.  Their baht couldn't make the difference when compared to the same baht from younger, more interesting (more attractive) people.  So the cry is 'riff raff', 'illegitimate', etc.  Maybe some day the old days will come back, huh?  Maybe the beautiful girls will like sitting next to old geezers again.  Uh huh.
 

[lazeeboy]

there could be a lot of fatherless children in the not so distant future .

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[herb59]

good, but no thanks, not US regulations..........