Entered Thailand on UK passport. Will there be a problem leaving on Thai passport?

[roath]

My girlfriend came to visit me in Bangkok. She lives in the UK and I live in Thailand which is the other way around from usual. Anyway, she has an Thai passport with ILR for the UK (indefinite leave to remain) and also has a British passport. Her Thai passport had expired so she entered Thailand on visa exempt stamp at Swampy (30 days). She went to rewew her Thai passport today and was told that she could not leave Thailand back to the UK on her Thai passport as she was stamped in on her UK passport. They insisted on her getting an extension although they are only giving 7 days until the end of the month and would give any longer even though she is Thai. She is leaving in 3 weeks so will "overstay" by 2 weeks. I personally dont see how they can stop her leaving Thailand if she has a valid passport and visa in her Thai passport. They may not even ask for an entry stamp as tickets only show one way. Even if she is questioned I dont see why she cant just show them the British passport with the entry stamp and explain that she has just renewed her Thai passport. Immigration were apparently unhelpful. They anyway refused to give an extension without proof of address in Bangkok even though that is not normally a requirement for farang. The worst case is paying overstay on leaving Swampy but I think that that is wrong as she is a Thai national so she can hardly be deported or refused entry. Anyway..regardless of logic and common sense....are immigration wrong or applying the rules too strictly or should we just suck up and pay the overstay? I did think about sending her on a border run for new 30 day but I am worried that they might refuse entry on a UK passport even though she can obviously enter on her Thai ID. Thoughts and suggestions appreciated.

[ubonjoe]

She has to leave on the passport she entered on. She could of entered on her expired Thai passport.

Since she entered on her UK passport she is under the same immigration rules as as a non Thai person.

She can go to immigration and a one year extension by proving her Thai nationality. No need for her to overstay.

[manarak]

Immigration won't help and be stubborn - the cause of this is that their guidelines do not cover cases like this one.

My guess is they will insist she did overstay inspite she's Thai, and will fine her for the joy of it.

Thai immigration only sees passports, visas, stamps and immigration directives.

They do not see the Law and Nationality.

What they do is probably illegal under the Law (fine a Thai person for overstay, 555), but their immigration police directives were probably written in such a way that this is the way that case will be handled.

"losing" the UK passport will not solve the issue, they will want a police record and a new passport be issued by the embassy.

The system's unflexibility in cases like this one really makes me scratch my head and wonder what is these peoples' problem, and why can't they transfer stamps from one passport to the other if that is needed?

I had a similar case where my passport was needed in Thailand for immigration to "process", and I had to go out of the country urgently.

I have a nother passport, so I asked immigration if they could arrange for me to leave on the second passport and come back, but no way of course.

Edited August 18, 2014 by manarak

[roath]

She has to leave on the passport she entered on. She could of entered on her expired Thai passport.

Since she entered on her UK passport she is under the same immigration rules as as a non Thai person.

She can go to immigration and a one year extension by proving her Thai nationality. No need for her to overstay.

Thanks. I did say that she could try to enter on her Thai ID but she didn't believe me as her passport was expired and didn't think that it would be valid for entry which is understandable as in many countries an expired passport (or ID) isn't valid as proof. Ubonjoe, can I ask if you know what the one year extension is called, or on what basis it is issued, or just ask for or just a one year extension based on Thai nationality? She asked for an extension today and they refused to give more than 7 days even though she has Thai nationality and ID (and tambien baan although for Buriram - and was told to go to Buriram if that was the case). At the end of the month, they are bringing in the 30 day extensions for visa exempt entries, which makes it even more bonkers as they could have just extended for an additional week which I believe that they have the ability to do anyway under "exceptional circumstances" or some such. At the end of the day, she can just pay the overstay, but really this is bonkers to charge a Thai for "overstaying" in her own country. In the UK, this would be unlawful, regardless of what passport the person entered on.

[ubonjoe]

Many Thai's are not aware they can enter on a expired passport. Even personnel at some Thai embassies are not aware of it. There are many countries that allow their citizens to enter with an expired passport.

Info on extension. Many people have gotten it after entering on the wrong passport.

2.23 In the case of a person who used to have Thai nationality or whose parent is or was of Thai nationality visiting relatives or returning to his or her original homeland:
Each permission shall be granted for no more than one year.
(1) Must have evidence that the applicant used to have Thai nationality or that his her parent is or was of Thai nationality.

She could also apply for a 7 day extension, pay 1900 baht an get 7 days to leave the country. And then apply for the new 30 day extension on the 29th.

[stevenl]

"I did say that she could try to enter on her Thai ID but she didn't believe me as her passport was expired and didn't think that it would be valid for entry which is understandable as in many countries an expired passport (or ID) isn't valid as proof."

AFAIK in all countries a citizen of that country will always be allowed entry.

"but really this is bonkers to charge a Thai for "overstaying" in her own country. In the UK, this would be unlawful, regardless of what passport the person entered on."

Are you sure about that? She is here as a UK citizen, not Thai, and I would presume it would be the same in other countries.

On what basis did she ask for extension today? Sounds like maybe she pissed of the officer (he being jealous of her living in the UK could have been enough for that). But as Joe said, if she applies for an extension based on being Thai that should be ok. Even her old passport and valid ID card should be enough proof of that.

[roath]

"I did say that she could try to enter on her Thai ID but she didn't believe me as her passport was expired and didn't think that it would be valid for entry which is understandable as in many countries an expired passport (or ID) isn't valid as proof."

AFAIK in all countries a citizen of that country will always be allowed entry.

"but really this is bonkers to charge a Thai for "overstaying" in her own country. In the UK, this would be unlawful, regardless of what passport the person entered on."

Are you sure about that? She is here as a UK citizen, not Thai, and I would presume it would be the same in other countries.

On what basis did she ask for extension today? Sounds like maybe she pissed of the officer (he being jealous of her living in the UK could have been enough for that). But as Joe said, if she applies for an extension based on being Thai that should be ok. Even her old passport and valid ID card should be enough proof of that.

Technically, an expired passport is no longer valid ID and therefore, I imagine that you have difficulty in entering most countries. That would certainly be the case with a biometric passport which would be rejected per se. Furthermore, an expired passport would not necessarily constitute proof of nationality. In the UK there is no national ID card so an expired passport would not be sufficient proof of current nationality.

In such circumstances, you would need some other form of proof of nationality (which in this instance, a Thai National ID card would have been so Ubonjoe was probably correct on this count). If entering the UK without a current passport, you would be required to prove your current nationality which might be difficult (not least as trying to enter on an expired passport means that you must have a second citizenship, which means that it is possible that your current/previous citizenship might have been revoked etc).

You are not correct about her being here as a British national. She has a Thai ID card which means that she is here lawfully regardless of her entry on a British passport. Logically that must be the case, otherwise, citizenship would have no meaning. She is a Thai citizen and must have an unfettered right to reside in Thailand. That is certainly the case in other countries (by which of course I mean Western countries). There would (should) only be an issue if dual nationality is unlawful, which it is not in Thailand (or the UK).

She is normally very polite and doesn't argue. In fact, I told her off for not insisting on speaking with someone more senior. She is Thai after all, and they can hardly revoke her visa as they could if I went along with her. The immigration officer was not helpful at all apparently. I also wondered whether jealousy might have been an issue as it just didn't make sense that they were so aggressive with her, telling her about paying overstay even though she is a Thai national and refusing to give anything more than 7 days. They even demanded proof of residence (which isn't usually required for foreigners on an extension). Just shows that not only us farang get a hard time from immigration though.

[joepattaya1961]

Uhm.........you said that you were about to send her on a visa-run trip........well do so.

Leave Th on her UK-passport and return on her Thai passport.

[Mario2008]

Under Thai immigration regulations an experied Thai passport of a Thai national is accepted to enter Thailand.

Thai immigration regards her as a UK-national as she entered on a UK passport. If that is in accodence with the law is another question, which only a judge can answer.

[roath]

Many Thai's are not aware they can enter on a expired passport. Even personnel at some Thai embassies are not aware of it. There are many countries that allow their citizens to enter with an expired passport.

Info on extension. Many people have gotten it after entering on the wrong passport.

2.23 In the case of a person who used to have Thai nationality or whose parent is or was of Thai nationality visiting relatives or returning to his or her original homeland:

Each permission shall be granted for no more than one year.

(1) Must have evidence that the applicant used to have Thai nationality or that his her parent is or was of Thai nationality.

She could also apply for a 7 day extension, pay 1900 baht an get 7 days to leave the country. And then apply for the new 30 day extension on the 29th.

With regard to 2.23, it mentions someone who used to have Thai nationality, whilst in this case, my GF has not lost her Thai citizenship so I wonder if this would also apply in this instance. She simply thought it would be easier to renew her passport in Thailand than the UK (which it was) and didn't think that it would be a problem as to how long she stayed. Live and learn.

Interesting about the double extension. I didn't think that that was possible. Worst case is that she simply pays the overstay (through gritted teeth).

I still think that it is legally wrong regardless of which passport was used. I doubt that the powers that be care too much and probably take the view that if she lives abroad, she can afford to pay so what's the problem? As always TIT. And also thanks.

[roath]

Uhm.........you said that you were about to send her on a visa-run trip........well do so.

Leave Th on her UK-passport and return on her Thai passport.

If she leaves on one passport, immigration may be difficult with her on returning as to why she has used one passport to exit and another to enter (i.e. there is a "missing" exit) stamp on her Thai passport. I was worried that they might refuse to let her back into Thailand on the basis of a border run, although I am not sure that legally they could refuse her entry if she has a valid Thai passport and ID card. It just shows how bonkers it is to be even thinking like this.

The cost of a visa run becomes a bit 50/50 in terms of just paying overstay and putting it down to experience.

[ubonjoe]

As I said there have been others that got the extesnion after entering on the wrong passport. It can be done.

An extension after the 7 days is often done because it truly is not an extension it is 7 days to leave after a denied extension application.

[manarak]

Technically, an expired passport is no longer valid ID

That statement is not true for all countries.

Some countries give passports with validity of 10 years, but validity as an ID within the country is good for 20 years, meaning the expired passport can be used as national ID card for 10 more years after it expired.

Edited August 18, 2014 by manarak

[Dah fahrang]

She already is in possession of her renewed Thai Passport - obtained in Thailand? (Turn around time usually 2 days).

Will she want to re-enter Thailand at some future date on her Thai Passport? (If for nothing else other than to not worry about extensions).

So, on leaving Thailand, present the British Passport which has the entry stamp in it, together with the valid Thai Passport. Explain to the Immigration Officer that she wishes to re-enter Thailand in the future on her Thai Passport, and would they please place an exit stamp in that Thai Passport, as well as the British Passport.

That is, have BOTH passports stamped with a departure stamp.

A member of my family, and a close friend both had an identical situation. The Immigration Officers at the airport on both occasions were obliging and courteous, after asking a few questions.

Can't offer any advise about overstay vs. extension.

[roath]

She already is in possession of her renewed Thai Passport - obtained in Thailand? (Turn around time usually 2 days).

Will she want to re-enter Thailand at some future date on her Thai Passport? (If for nothing else other than to not worry about extensions).

So, on leaving Thailand, present the British Passport which has the entry stamp in it, together with the valid Thai Passport. Explain to the Immigration Officer that she wishes to re-enter Thailand in the future on her Thai Passport, and would they please place an exit stamp in that Thai Passport, as well as the British Passport.

That is, have BOTH passports stamped with a departure stamp.

A member of my family, and a close friend both had an identical situation. The Immigration Officers at the airport on both occasions were obliging and courteous, after asking a few questions.

Can't offer any advise about overstay vs. extension.

Thanks. I will advise her to try this. As I said, the worst case scenario is that she just pays overstay on leaving. The cost of an extension plus cost of trips to Chaeng Wattana becomes marginal in terms of overstay for a short time.

I can only repeat that my GF said that the officer she spoke to at Immigration at Chaeng Wattana was very unhelpful. My GF is normally polite and courteous so I have no reason to believe that she said anything wrong. She was surprised that they were so brusque considering that she is Thai. Maybe she will have better luck at the airport.

[TerryLH]

"I personally dont see how they can stop her leaving Thailand if she has a valid passport and visa in her Thai passport."

Why would she have a visa in her Thai passport if she also has a British passport?

[ATF]

Why didn't she renew her Thai Passport in the UK?

Just do a border run or fly out of Thailand with the British Passport and re-enter on the new Thai Passport but make sure she takes all three passports with her.

[samran]

She already is in possession of her renewed Thai Passport - obtained in Thailand? (Turn around time usually 2 days).

Will she want to re-enter Thailand at some future date on her Thai Passport? (If for nothing else other than to not worry about extensions).

So, on leaving Thailand, present the British Passport which has the entry stamp in it, together with the valid Thai Passport. Explain to the Immigration Officer that she wishes to re-enter Thailand in the future on her Thai Passport, and would they please place an exit stamp in that Thai Passport, as well as the British Passport.

That is, have BOTH passports stamped with a departure stamp.

A member of my family, and a close friend both had an identical situation. The Immigration Officers at the airport on both occasions were obliging and courteous, after asking a few questions.

Can't offer any advise about overstay vs. extension.

Thanks. I will advise her to try this. As I said, the worst case scenario is that she just pays overstay on leaving. The cost of an extension plus cost of trips to Chaeng Wattana becomes marginal in terms of overstay for a short time.

I can only repeat that my GF said that the officer she spoke to at Immigration at Chaeng Wattana was very unhelpful. My GF is normally polite and courteous so I have no reason to believe that she said anything wrong. She was surprised that they were so brusque considering that she is Thai. Maybe she will have better luck at the airport.

I'm a Thai dual national. That previous post is awful advice.

As others have said, it is possible to enter Thailand on an expired Thai passport. I've done it twice, in once case 2 years after the passport expired.

Your GF is here now as a Brit. I've read your 'it shouldn' be that way' statements, but you are just going to have to suck it up and accept it.

You have two options.

1) Ask for an explicit one year extension of stay in the British passport based on being a Thai national. 1900 baht. Bobs your uncle.

2) Passport swap. This can be done by air only.

She departs on her British passport before her 30 day entry is up. Stamp out only on Brit passport. She entered as a Brit. She leaves as a Brit. Don't confuse matters.

Flies to a neighbouring country (KL, Singapore). Turns around, comes back.

Given she has a new Thai passport now she can simply go through the electronic gates at Suvanabhumi.

If she re-enters on a LCC at Don Muang, she simply hands over both old and new Thai passports to the IO, and they can choose which one to stamp her in on. And she is back in Thailand as a Thai.

Trust me, this is the way to do it.

Edited August 18, 2014 by samran

[roath]

"I personally dont see how they can stop her leaving Thailand if she has a valid passport and visa in her Thai passport."

Why would she have a visa in her Thai passport if she also has a British passport

She has an ILR stamp in her British passport. The ILR remains technically valid even after citizenship. It doesn't matter so much for UK dual nationality as they don't care at UK immigration how you left your own country (for these purposes) only whether you can enter the UK legally (which of course you can do on a British passport and with biometrics, you don't even have to see an immigration officer as you can go through the automated machine which doesn't look at visa entry/exit stamps at all). It is legal for Thais to hold dual citizenship these days so is more a matter of convenience than a necessity (as it is for example with Chinese dual nationals who absolutely require the ILR stamp as it is illegal for them to hold another citizenship apart from Chinese so they would need to show a visa for entry/exiting the UK when entering/exiting China).

I did tell her to renew in the UK, but she insisted on doing in Thailand. People don't always think things through or listen to advice and will do something that they think is easier although it can end up being twice as complicated. This isn't the end of the world, but just shows how silly some rules can be and also that it isn't just farang who can fall foul of bizarre immigration rules or difficult immigration officers.

[Maestro]

... just shows how silly some rules can be...

There are indeed quite a few silly rules in this world, but in this particular case there is nothing at all silly about the rule; it is the dual-nationality traveller who was silly or stubborn or whatever you want to call it.

[roath]

... just shows how silly some rules can be...

There are indeed quite a few silly rules in this world, but in this particular case there is nothing at all silly about the rule; it is the dual-nationality traveller who was silly or stubborn or whatever you want to call it.

To say that a national can be fined or arrested (for being on technical overstay) whilst residing in the country of which they are a citizen is something out of Monty Python. In fairness, not many people would know that they can enter on an expired passport (and in fairness, in many countries you cannot). Live and learn and I am grateful for the useful information provided by others on this post.

[Maestro]

Roath, this may be difficult for you to understand, but by presenting her UK passport to the Thai immigration officer on her arrival in Thailand your friend made a formal request to be granted permission to stay in Thailand in her capacity as a UK national, with all the rights and duties that this may entail. It was your friend who made this choice, not the immigration officer.

It was your friend's right as a UK national to enter Thailand on her UK passport and exercising this right she entered into the obligation to leave Thailand on her UK passport. As I said, this may be difficult for you, and impossible for your friend, to understand.

Having said that, there have been cases reported by Thai dual nationals who entered Thailand with the foreign passport and left with a newly issued Thai passport, but that was before the introduction of biometric passports, and they planned never again to travel to Thailand on either passport.

[thatguy]

All of the convoluted logic about the catch 22s etc may be valid, but the simplicity of the solution in post 18 seems overlooked here. Do a "border run", out on the UK, in on the Thai. Home free.

[paz]

All of the convoluted logic about the catch 22s etc may be valid, but the simplicity of the solution in post 18 seems overlooked here. Do a "border run", out on the UK, in on the Thai. Home free.

No, border run is not enough because land border officer want to see stamps matching on the same passport, even if there is no written law or regulation prescribing that. Again, Thai non-sense and jealousy.

[digitalchromakey]

Good friend of mine has a Thai partner, she did exactly the same thing and entered Thailand on her European Passport, as her Thai passport was expired and she also was unaware that she could still have used her expired Thai Passport.

She went to her local immigration and was given a one year extension of stay, no questions asked, based purely on showing her Thai ID card and copy of her name entry in a Tabien Baan.

Suggest your friend either:

1) goes back to her local Thai Immigration and asks for a one year extension which she is definitely entitled to, which I guess would fall under National Police Order 327/2557 Case 2.23.

2) Flies out of Thailand before overstay and re-enters on her new Thai passport (showing the old one for the exit stamp if necessary).

If your friend remains and goes into overstay on her UK passport, then she will definitely be charged at 500 THB per day up to the maximum of 20,000 THB - that's the law.

[Wanderingdrew]

simple solution ROAD TRIP
Check out at a land boarder on UK passport and then walk to the entry line and go through If passport expired she can use ID card or expired passport to enter no need to even check in at other country just get the exit stamp
In theory you should also be able to do this at the airport check out and re enter without going anywhere but I have not done it this way before
also works if you want to swap passports to another country

[samran]

simple solution ROAD TRIP

Check out at a land boarder on UK passport and then walk to the entry line and go through If passport expired she can use ID card or expired passport to enter no need to even check in at other country just get the exit stamp

In theory you should also be able to do this at the airport check out and re enter without going anywhere but I have not done it this way before

also works if you want to swap passports to another country

terrible advice.

Land borders generally require that you cross using the same passport.

[digitalchromakey]

simple solution ROAD TRIP

Check out at a land boarder on UK passport and then walk to the entry line and go through If passport expired she can use ID card or expired passport to enter no need to even check in at other country just get the exit stamp

In theory you should also be able to do this at the airport check out and re enter without going anywhere but I have not done it this way before

also works if you want to swap passports to another country

You cannot do this - incorrect advice.

Passports can only be 'swapped' if you exit/re-enter by air.

Edited August 18, 2014 by digitalchromakey

[Maestro]

Removed some off-topic posts and flames and replies to them.

[cardinalblue]

Might have to fly out and in just avoid real trouble or just pay the overstay of two weeks...

Don't push them or they can make it nasty for her...

CB