How Thin Is Too Thin?

[mommysboy]

We're bandying around terms here. Skinny/slim it's all the same.

BMI doesn't seem to work well for a lot of people it probably categorises perfectly healthy people as a bit overweight, and slightly built as underweight.

The only real measure is whether you are trim (also implying fitness) for your age and body type. A rugby player is fine and healthy. Roly poly probably not.

Ideally one should be on the slim side during formative years and hopefully in to middle age. As we age it may well be better to carry a bit extra.

However, you just have to look around you in UK to see that there are many ' a bit overweight' and unfit people, young and middle aged, and to say this is ok and predictive of a long and healthy life would not be correct imho.

Studies have to be approached with caution. I can't help think we're missing a trick here. is it weight at death? if so yes that would figure, may be better to have a bit extra going in to dotage.

[Robert24]

I'm skeptical about studies that show overweight people live longer. My experience both inside and outside family show the opposite that normal weight, slim people live much longer than overweight people. It logically makes also sense because overweight takes a heavy toll on your organs especially the heart.

Also bear in mind that overweight for caucasians is not as bad as it is for Asians. There have been many studies that Asians suffer far more health consequences from being overweight than caucasians. So either being slim is certainly health wise the right approach.

[mommysboy]

Indeed there is a flaw that the authors themselves acknowledge in that it is difficult to differentiate healthily slim and dying underweight because of serious illness.

One other explanation acknowledged is that the overweight have already been targeted for health risk and are receiving treatment.

Another reason I thought of is that the overweight in old age are likely being well fed and cared for. As we know single old men in particular die early as they are unable to look after themselves in the main.

So the more you look at it the more you realize this is about factors other than physiological. In fact we ought really say that people who are well cared for live longer even if they are overweight!

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[manarak]

As I said, a BMI of under 18.5 equals malnutrition and this applies to Thai women and even to women in countries where average size and body build is a whole lot smaller.

A BMI of 17 is seriously malnourished. However I have some doubts about the accuracy of the height given and suspect she is shorter than 160.

My wife's BMI is slightly below 17 (weight: 38 kg, height: 150 cm, checked several times, including at the local hospital). She might have been malnourished in the past, but I can assure you that it is not the case anymore and has not been for more than 12 years. Her maximum weight during this period was 42 kg (after a few months stay in Europe during winter) and she then thought and said that she was fat! Currently, she often eat more than me on a daily basis! Apparently, it's not unusual for Asian women to have a very low BMI, at least, that's what I have noticed around me, but I don't know whether or not it's because most of those women have been malnourished when they were younger (it's quite possible, as many women that I know locally come from poor rural families).

BMI doesn't work well for short persons, even the BMI adjusted for Asians.

A woman that is 1m50 and 38 Kg does not look skinny at all !

Indeed. She is slim, but not skinny (IMHO).

not even slim, she just looks of normal proportions, I guess if she had the same proportions but was 10% more everywhere (including height), her BMI would be 19.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Some people are naturally thin build. Me being one of them. I am 182 and around 71 kilos when out of the gym for a while.

BMI range for 182 is 66Kg to 76Kg.

You are right in the middle.

I am 182 and 74Kg, feeling a bit fat.

[GuyL]

My wife's BMI is slightly below 17 (weight: 38 kg, height: 150 cm, checked several times, including at the local hospital). She might have been malnourished in the past, but I can assure you that it is not the case anymore and has not been for more than 12 years. Her maximum weight during this period was 42 kg (after a few months stay in Europe during winter) and she then thought and said that she was fat! Currently, she often eat more than me on a daily basis! Apparently, it's not unusual for Asian women to have a very low BMI, at least, that's what I have noticed around me, but I don't know whether or not it's because most of those women have been malnourished when they were younger (it's quite possible, as many women that I know locally come from poor rural families).

BMI doesn't work well for short persons, even the BMI adjusted for Asians.

A woman that is 1m50 and 38 Kg does not look skinny at all !

Indeed. She is slim, but not skinny (IMHO).

not even slim, she just looks of normal proportions, I guess if she had the same proportions but was 10% more everywhere (including height), her BMI would be 19.

BMI calculation takes into account only height and weight. If she was 10% taller (= 165 cm) and 10% heavier (41.8 kg), her BMI would be 15.4!

But I agree with you that her proportions are not uncommon at all and probably quite normal for an Asian woman of her size.

[mommysboy]

Some people are naturally thin build. Me being one of them. I am 182 and around 71 kilos when out of the gym for a while.

BMI range for 182 is 66Kg to 76Kg.

You are right in the middle.

I am 182 and 74Kg, feeling a bit fat.

But empirically you are not fat at all, you are optimal.

Yes when I was 76KG I felt bloated and sluggish. It is what I said earlier, being true to your build, that's the key goal.

Perhaps what I am calling slim is just normal weight, but put it this way there is not a lot of us about these days.

[manarak]

not even slim, she just looks of normal proportions, I guess if she had the same proportions but was 10% more everywhere (including height), her BMI would be 19.

BMI calculation takes into account only height and weight. If she was 10% taller (= 165 cm) and 10% heavier (41.8 kg), her BMI would be 15.4!

But I agree with you that her proportions are not uncommon at all and probably quite normal for an Asian woman of her size.

I expressed myself wrong, sorry, I meant if her dimensions height, girth, etc, was increased by 10% everywhere, I guess her weight would go up by more than 10%...

I can only suppose short people have more low-density organic matter than taller persons.

[GuyL]

not even slim, she just looks of normal proportions, I guess if she had the same proportions but was 10% more everywhere (including height), her BMI would be 19.

BMI calculation takes into account only height and weight. If she was 10% taller (= 165 cm) and 10% heavier (41.8 kg), her BMI would be 15.4!

But I agree with you that her proportions are not uncommon at all and probably quite normal for an Asian woman of her size.

I expressed myself wrong, sorry, I meant if her dimensions height, girth, etc, was increased by 10% everywhere, I guess her weight would go up by more than 10%...

I can only suppose short people have more low-density organic matter than taller persons.

I don't know for the 'low-density organic matter' hypothesis, but I agree that her weight would probably increase by more than 10% in this case. Fortunately, she's not a rectangular cuboid, but if it was the case (10% more for her height, length, and depth), her weight would then be 50.578 kg with a BMI slightly below 19 (18.577777...) indeed. It still gives a reasonnable result with a 20% tri-dimensional increase by the way (BMI of 20.6666... in this case), but you can't apply this proportion rule indefinitely. The tallest human in history was Robert Wadlow whose height reached 272 cm: that is more than 80% taller than my wife. With a tri-dimensional increase of 80%, the resulting BMI would be 30.4!

[mommysboy]

My God. What an extraordinary post!

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[GuyL]

My God. What an extraordinary post!

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Why?

[EmptyHead]

Very few Thai women are that tall, are you sure of this height?

Thais (and other Asians) tend to round up their actual heights...and Thai women, to round down their weights.

Sorry for my late response.

I was wrong about her height. She is 156cm and recently she dropped down to 42kg (after starting her own business, ironically a restaurant business, and skipping the odd meal because of being too busy).

We went for a health check up and everything was normal, except we both have high cholesterol.

Though there was a strange event. She went to get her teeth cleaned and the dentist accidentally nicked her gum a little (tiny cut), but she didn't stop bleeding for almost 2 days. She spat, at least, a bowl of blood overnight and was drained of all her energy. The Ampur doctor didn't seem to think it was a problem that her blood wasn't clotting and told her to do back to see the dentist.

I looked at the results from her health check-up (a few weeks prior) and her platelets were fine, but her hemoglobin and hematocrit were borderline low. I figure maybe due to her low weight she has a deficiency (anemia)?

She doesn't want to check it out any further and is back to her usual energetic self. Though, she has started taking Haemovit and is trying to eat more.

Her own target is 48kg.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

I looked at the results from her health check-up (a few weeks prior) and her platelets were fine, but her hemoglobin and hematocrit were borderline low. I figure maybe due to her low weight she has a deficiency (anemia)?

Probably Thalassaemia, very common in Thai ladies.

[Sheryl]

I looked at the results from her health check-up (a few weeks prior) and her platelets were fine, but her hemoglobin and hematocrit were borderline low. I figure maybe due to her low weight she has a deficiency (anemia)?

Probably Thalassaemia, very common in Thai ladies.

So is iron deficiency anemia, esp. in underweight women.

Other CBC findings can help suggest if the cause is IDA. Look at the MCV and the MCHC

[uhuh]

Very few Thai women are that tall, are you sure of this height?

Thais (and other Asians) tend to round up their actual heights...and Thai women, to round down their weights.

Sorry for my late response.

I was wrong about her height. She is 156cm and recently she dropped down to 42kg (after starting her own business, ironically a restaurant business, and skipping the odd meal because of being too busy).

We went for a health check up and everything was normal, except we both have high cholesterol.

Though there was a strange event. She went to get her teeth cleaned and the dentist accidentally nicked her gum a little (tiny cut), but she didn't stop bleeding for almost 2 days. She spat, at least, a bowl of blood overnight and was drained of all her energy. The Ampur doctor didn't seem to think it was a problem that her blood wasn't clotting and told her to do back to see the dentist.

I looked at the results from her health check-up (a few weeks prior) and her platelets were fine, but her hemoglobin and hematocrit were borderline low. I figure maybe due to her low weight she has a deficiency (anemia)?

She doesn't want to check it out any further and is back to her usual energetic self. Though, she has started taking Haemovit and is trying to eat more.

Her own target is 48kg.

In Bangkok (as opposed to, let's say, Birmingham, AL), 156kg and 48 kg for a young woman is considered fat.

Her friends would call her narak (translates as ugly) or at the very least uop.

[Sheryl]

Very few Thai women are that tall, are you sure of this height?

Thais (and other Asians) tend to round up their actual heights...and Thai women, to round down their weights.

Sorry for my late response.

I was wrong about her height. She is 156cm and recently she dropped down to 42kg (after starting her own business, ironically a restaurant business, and skipping the odd meal because of being too busy).

We went for a health check up and everything was normal, except we both have high cholesterol.

Though there was a strange event. She went to get her teeth cleaned and the dentist accidentally nicked her gum a little (tiny cut), but she didn't stop bleeding for almost 2 days. She spat, at least, a bowl of blood overnight and was drained of all her energy. The Ampur doctor didn't seem to think it was a problem that her blood wasn't clotting and told her to do back to see the dentist.

I looked at the results from her health check-up (a few weeks prior) and her platelets were fine, but her hemoglobin and hematocrit were borderline low. I figure maybe due to her low weight she has a deficiency (anemia)?

She doesn't want to check it out any further and is back to her usual energetic self. Though, she has started taking Haemovit and is trying to eat more.

Her own target is 48kg.

In Bangkok (as opposed to, let's say, Birmingham, AL), 156kg and 48 kg for a young woman is considered fat.

Her friends would call her narak (translates as ugly) or at the very least uop.

156cm and 48 kg = a BMI of 19.7. At the lower end of normal range and not remotely fat by even the strictest Thai standards.

Na rak, BTW, means "lovely"..... (literally: face of love).

[wow64]

BMI is not always relavent.

I am 185cm 102kg... obese on the BMI chart.

I have 10-12% body fat.. Happily obese. I work hard to be this obese.

Sent from my c64

Edited February 7, 2015 by wow64

[Sheryl]

Yes, a person with large muscle mass can have a high BMI without obesity, since BMI is just a calculation of weight for height and cannot distinguish between fat and muscle weight.

Not usually an issue for women, though.

[manarak]

Starting at 155cm and lower, the BMI seems to yield strange results as far as petite women (small frame) are concerned.

I'd go as far as saying BMI is pretty useless if applied to small frame women, possibly also to men.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Na rak, BTW, means "lovely"..... (literally: face of love).

I believe the 'na' in this case (spelt differently to the 'na' meaning face, no haw heap) means 'worthy' or 'deserving'

So 'na rak' literally means 'worthy of love'

Edited February 7, 2015 by AnotherOneAmerican

[papa al]

√ intestinal parasites.

Common.

[uhuh]

Na rak, BTW, means "lovely"..... (literally: face of love).

I believe the 'na' in this case (spelt differently to the 'na' meaning face, no haw heap) means 'worthy' or 'deserving'

So 'na rak' literally means 'worthy of love'

That's correct, but:

If talking about girls, in Thai there are 2 possibilities:

Either she is suay

Or she is narak

Hint: Google "euphemism"

[kekalot]

My experience of BMI is not good, for over twenty five years I was 6 foot three and 160 lbs, no amount of extra food intake, supplements, exercise or anything else would let me gain weight, at one point I was eating over 4,000 calories a day and I never gained a more than two pounds. Successive doctors confirmed all was well medically and that I was naturally thin, my BMI was scary. In later life I began to gain weight, I'm now 185lbs which is starting to become the opposite problem!

So yes, check with the doctor and if all is well, recognize that there are ectomorphs and endomorphs, neither of which is an illness or disease.

that's not that low

okay, so I am 6"3 (191cm)

now, from about age 13 to 27 years old I used to weight 135 to 140 lbs (61 to 63.5Kg) and that's 16.8 to 17.4 BMI

about right when I hit age 27 I started running heavily and got into fitness semi seriously, average weight went up to 155 lbs (70.3kg)

now, at age 32, because of winters and other stuff, I stopped running as much and haven't been so serious at the gym, I am now 150 lbs (68kg) and that is a BMI of 18.6

last year, I got asked by a friend of a friend in in Thailand if I was 18, but most people think I am 23 or so.. mostly comes from overall fitness (and jovial attitude too)

my dad told me the other day that I should gain about 30 lbs (13.5kg?) to be of normal weight.. I think it's the funniest thing I ever heard.

so I asked my dad, 30 lbs of what? fat? what would I need 30 lbs of fat on me for.

because my brother, who is the same height as me, weighs in at about 185 lbs, has manboobs and a fat belly.

I find it funny how overweight people seem to think that their weight are "normal".

my ex roommate in Canada was 155cm at 52kg, she would consider herself as "thin"

thai lady with same height sitting at 46kg and says she has "a few extra pounds"

[manarak]

My experience of BMI is not good, for over twenty five years I was 6 foot three and 160 lbs, no amount of extra food intake, supplements, exercise or anything else would let me gain weight, at one point I was eating over 4,000 calories a day and I never gained a more than two pounds. Successive doctors confirmed all was well medically and that I was naturally thin, my BMI was scary. In later life I began to gain weight, I'm now 185lbs which is starting to become the opposite problem!

So yes, check with the doctor and if all is well, recognize that there are ectomorphs and endomorphs, neither of which is an illness or disease.

that's not that low

okay, so I am 6"3 (191cm)

now, from about age 13 to 27 years old I used to weight 135 to 140 lbs (61 to 63.5Kg) and that's 16.8 to 17.4 BMI

about right when I hit age 27 I started running heavily and got into fitness semi seriously, average weight went up to 155 lbs (70.3kg)

now, at age 32, because of winters and other stuff, I stopped running as much and haven't been so serious at the gym, I am now 150 lbs (68kg) and that is a BMI of 18.6

last year, I got asked by a friend of a friend in in Thailand if I was 18, but most people think I am 23 or so.. mostly comes from overall fitness (and jovial attitude too)

my dad told me the other day that I should gain about 30 lbs (13.5kg?) to be of normal weight.. I think it's the funniest thing I ever heard.

so I asked my dad, 30 lbs of what? fat? what would I need 30 lbs of fat on me for.

because my brother, who is the same height as me, weighs in at about 185 lbs, has manboobs and a fat belly.

I find it funny how overweight people seem to think that their weight are "normal".

my ex roommate in Canada was 155cm at 52kg, she would consider herself as "thin"

thai lady with same height sitting at 46kg and says she has "a few extra pounds"

it all depends on the frame.

many Thais have small frame, for a Thai lady with small frame, the BMI says 50 Kg @ 155cm is in the middle of completely normal, but visually she would look fat by all standards.

The BMI crooks go so far as making people believe 60 Kg for 155 cm is still in the normal range, while at that weight the small frame woman would have wobbly fat all around.

[SiSePuede419]

BMI is a TERRIBLE indicator of "health".

BMI doesn't take into account fat, and it doesn't indicate where fat is distributed on the body. Belly fat (fat around the abdominal organs) increases the risk of diabetes, heart disease and death, whereas peripheral fat (fat beneath the skin elsewhere in the body) may be more innocuous, studies suggest. BMI also fails to account for differences in race, gender and age.

Asian girls have higher % of fat than Caucasians or Africans, for the same body weight.

Diet and exercise and belly fat are much better indicators of health...

[Jingthing]

BMI can be a useful indicator if you're not muscular. Factor in waist size and most everyday people can get some clues from it.

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[SiSePuede419]

Jingthing, which of the following words don't you understand?

"BMI doesn't take into account fat, and it doesn't indicate where fat is distributed on the body. Belly fat (fat around the abdominal organs) increases the risk of diabetes, heart disease and death, whereas peripheral fat (fat beneath the skin elsewhere in the body) may be more innocuous, studies suggest. BMI also fails to account for differences in race, gender and age."

[Jingthing]

No need to be insulting. BMI is flawed but may still be a rough indicator for many especially those with an understanding of its limitations.

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[h90]

No need to be insulting. BMI is flawed but may still be a rough indicator for many especially those with an understanding of its limitations.

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Way too rough for normal people. Only good for the extreme fat one, as the frame, muscle weight gets less important.

Some indicator with height, weight and 3 measure points for fat would be better, even if measuring fat might be very inaccurate.

[Jingthing]

I don't agree. I have an average non-muscular body and I find my BMI number and what I see in the mirror makes perfect sense. Bringing up ... look in the mirror and compare yourself to a hottie on the beach ... there're your "BMI"

What I'm saying is rather than label BMI as totally worthless, better be more honest and see it as a tool that can provide some general information for many people but shouldn't be taken in an orthodox manner.

Edited February 17, 2015 by Jingthing