Immigration Bureau told to be flexible with 'visa runners'

[LeeTheCelt]

I think the whole immigration/visa thing needs a complete overhaul, like by the time the wife & I go back to Thailand, we will be married at least 12 years, to Me that should make it easier to become a citizen, but we all know it won't.

As for the English Teachers with this Micky mouse Certificate teaching English, this should stop.I was Educated & raised here in London, speak with a cockney accent, most Americans find it hard to understand Me, imagine Me trying to teach young Thai kids English, I don't think so.

A French guy befriended Me on FB via another friend, trying to get information about marriage visa for his wife, his written English was so bad I had trouble trying to make sense of what he was actually asking, this guy now teaches English somewhere in BKK..............................Wrong in every way.

Hard enough if you are a native English speaker with a regional accent..............near on impossible if English is your second language & you speak with a heavy accent...............Leave the teaching to the professionals, that's why they went to uni & got a degree , or go get that degree your self.

[timewilltell]

Why do they think that most of visa runners are english teachers. Kinda strange for me.

This new rules affected many people who spend more than 60+ baht each month and not work in Thailand.

P.S. Damn English teachers, why innocent should suffer because of your sins? If you work in Thailand got work permit, what's wrong with you i though western people are good enough to respect the laws.

Its a bit hard to apply for a work permit without the co-operation of the employer!

[Soutpeel]

Ayjaydee..

My comment: "That story mentions ONE (1) person, not really enough for you to be correct, in fact the numbers, for ALL of Thailand, are low, so please, show us more realistic numbers, or are you once again trolling."

Your reply: "feel free to show us theyre low"

Thanks for taking the "bait" it is the reply I expected. You say what you want, in order to criticise but unable to substantiate your comment... there's words to describe you, but I fear I'd by banned/suspended. But now all readers know what you are like. A TROLL.

hangover from last night dear boy ?... your rambling and very thin skinned....

[watso63]

I think the whole immigration/visa thing needs a complete overhaul, like by the time the wife & I go back to Thailand, we will be married at least 12 years, to Me that should make it easier to become a citizen, but we all know it won't.

As for the English Teachers with this Micky mouse Certificate teaching English, this should stop.I was Educated & raised here in London, speak with a cockney accent, most Americans find it hard to understand Me, imagine Me trying to teach young Thai kids English, I don't think so.

A French guy befriended Me on FB via another friend, trying to get information about marriage visa for his wife, his written English was so bad I had trouble trying to make sense of what he was actually asking, this guy now teaches English somewhere in BKK..............................Wrong in every way.

Hard enough if you are a native English speaker with a regional accent..............near on impossible if English is your second language & you speak with a heavy accent...............Leave the teaching to the professionals, that's why they went to uni & got a degree , or go get that degree your self.

Fair enough, but what professional without other means would want to work for a lot less than £1,000/month, be isolated in Nakhon Nowhere (unless hitched) with students that are only interested in their smartphones and obsessing about skin colour. We are talking about thousands here, not just a few. As others have said, it is the unfortunate Thai childrens education that's at stake here and from where I'm sitting they are already near the bottom of ASEAN and having to look up. Edited August 23, 2014 by watso63

[neverdie]

csabo

Could you quote some sources for your assuptions? Especially about all the criminals. And the rules for retirees already exist and are complied with by many retirees over 50 who get appropriate visas and report as required. The only "complaint" you replied to was about the age requirement of a retiree. I am curious why your feathers got so ruffled by this simple request that would have no impact on other retirees or younger people working legally in Thailand as these younger retirees don't seek employment. So is it jealousy that some people were able to retire from their home country under the age of fifty that has you so upset about something that could not possibly impact your situation?? Do tell.

Personally, I've noticed more verbal attacks going back at these retirees, that seemingly, have this preconceived idea they somehow rule the roost and control ALL us Farangs in Thailand through their dedicated and loyal affair with fellow -Coffin Dodgers.

They are a special crew I must admit. Never in my entire life have I read such toxic verbiage from so many who hate to see anyone do better, making out that their past fellow citizens are nothing more than uneducated peasants trying to infiltrate their patch now theyve gave up their countries birthplace and seemingly became a self-appointed Farang/Thai or maybe even no longer call themselves a Farang.

Its a total and utter disgrace and the amount of abuse is sickening beyond belief.

Anyway, it will never stop for some until they pass away. Unfortunately, more more pop-up as if made in the Morbid Factory for the seriously deranged..

TRUTH HURTS ..

I agee, so whole heartedly. I've lived all over the world, and have never encountered a more hostile group than those you describe here...the reitiree crowd at TV. The angry entitlement and fear they hope to spread as a way to justify themselves is a real phenomenon here, completely unproductive, and long overdue to be put out to pasture.

How do you know who's in the retiree crowd John?

I'll never interact with you again after what I've seen you send my direction before, frankly. Take care of yourself.

Sensitive chap arnt you? I only recall you attacking me for claiming that I was hiding the fact that I was outside Thailand at the time, something that I've freely spoken about in the forum for a number of months now. Of course at that time you were outside Thailand as well, but that didn't seem to count for anything.

Send your direction? You claim that certain people belong to the old retired group, I'm wondering how you've made this assumption or is it more garble? It's a bit tiresome all this garble where people here claim people on TVF belong to one group or another, especially when they wouldn't know <deleted> from clay.

[Konini]

I haven't read the whole thing through yet, so don't know if anyone has picked up on my point but if I don't post now I'll forget to do it.

The original post, reported in the nation

Foreigners had been exploiting tourist visas and visas on arrival by illegally working in the country, mostly as English teachers.

Prayuth said the change of the visa system concerning visa runners had considerably affected certain groups such as English teachers and academics.

"So, this is an ongoing problem that needs to be resolved, as it can lead to a shortage of English teachers and guides," he said during his weekly TV programme.

But, but, but - didn't they say that the crackdown was aimed at a particular group, that group consisting of Russians, Koreans and Japanese? Didn't they say that on more than one occasion? How many of any of those 3 nationalities have the skills to teach English? Were they just making that up?

So while legal and above board English teachers should have no problems (apart from minor teething problems when a new employer is getting the paperwork together where people may have to be on a tourist visa, possibly two tourist visa's but no more than that as it 120 days is more than enough time to sort a work permit out) the only ones who would be affected are the ones who are not legally working. The general seems to be saying ease up on the clamp down on undocumented English teachers working illegally without a work permit.

Just sayin'.

[Bernard Flint]

I think the whole immigration/visa thing needs a complete overhaul, like by the time the wife & I go back to Thailand, we will be married at least 12 years, to Me that should make it easier to become a citizen, but we all know it won't.

As for the English Teachers with this Micky mouse Certificate teaching English, this should stop.I was Educated & raised here in London, speak with a cockney accent, most Americans find it hard to understand Me, imagine Me trying to teach young Thai kids English, I don't think so.

A French guy befriended Me on FB via another friend, trying to get information about marriage visa for his wife, his written English was so bad I had trouble trying to make sense of what he was actually asking, this guy now teaches English somewhere in BKK..............................Wrong in every way.

Hard enough if you are a native English speaker with a regional accent..............near on impossible if English is your second language & you speak with a heavy accent...............Leave the teaching to the professionals, that's why they went to uni & got a degree , or go get that degree your self.

Fair enough, but what professional without other means would want to work for a lot less than £1,000/month, be isolated in Nakhon Nowhere (unless hitched) with students that are only interested in their smartphones and obsessing about skin colour. We are talking about thousands here, not just a few. As others have said, it is the unfortunate Thai childrens education that's at stake here and from where I'm sitting they are already near the bottom of ASEAN and having to look up.

Many kids from different countries are obsessed with smartphones and their looks, they seem to be taught fairly well.

[grantbkk]

I thought about teaching English on Thailand but I realize these people are regarded as trash like prostitutes or drug dealers, bar flies and beach bums who are the real visa runners.I have a degree in English and a native speaker. Why don't they bring in Ordinary visa for any purpose lime Cambodia?

So in these two sentences you've answered your own question Grasshopper.

[ITGabs]

But why they don't go directly into the real problem, illegal workers, criminals, etc, they should take the real police (not the locals) and create a good plan to review any company and business in an area and by surprise but not with hard hand, thai style, giving opportunities to go legal or fix any issue, in that way they will catch for sure many of the "criminals" and show presence and control and the most important helping to do the transition, I think that should be a good improve not only in stop illegals but in general to improve the quality of many things, the prices should be affected a bit but it's the price to do the things right. but changing rules from day to night is jeopardizing the actual situation

Inclusive without changing nothing but with the knowledge about how business are done in different areas by locals or aliens will help a lot to upgrade the rules into something more real and actual, I have the feeling that no body is respecting the actual rules because the rules are unreliable to many people (talking about how thai people do business) seems to be similar to the confusing visa rules, full of "workarounds" thai fixers, etc.

[mrtoad]

The real issue here is that immigration and MOL need to work in a more streamlined way. There are at present rules that apply, I have no problem in suggesting that some changes need to be made, whilst on the other part making it clear that breaking Immigration laws is also not correct.

Maybe we will see some progressive changes which make it easier for people who bring value to Thailand to stay and work here, although making it a haven for unqualified pissheqds isn't progressive.

[jacksam]

"So, this is an ongoing problem that needs to be resolved, as it can lead to a shortage of English teachers and guides," he said during his weekly TV programme.

How about enforcing the schools to adhere to the law and providing work permits instead of keeping teachers semi-illegal.

Couldn't agree more, however, the problem is the current requirements prevent good teachers from being employed legally. A degree in Psychology doesn't make someone a good teacher.

Someone who is passionate about teaching, does preparation, knows how to get the best out of their students, has done a teaching course, how to correct and make their students better and knows how to teach is what makes a good teacher.

I wish for the day they scrap the degree requirement and do a teaching observation and screening instead. Then, everyone wins, bar the bad teachers.

Unfortunately, it's the MOE I believe that needs to wake up to this.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

Being a native English speaker, who majored in English, minored in German and who is in his 2nd work permit - that's the experience of a friend who taught at our local secondary school for a year before taking a slot at a bigger school in a city. He visited again and news of his visit brought a buzz of excitement among the teachers. He was liked by staff an students alike, and is missed. He was one who did prepare for classes... and made it interesting.

Observing teachers and certifying their effectiveness sounds to me like one interim step to keep him and others - longer..

The thing is, he's not sure he'll be allowed another work permit. As he's seeing the rules, he's only allowed two work permits before he either takes teacher courses or needs to cease teaching. (Currently, his only teacher's course is TEFL.)

The confusion as to what is required or not - that alone may force him to plan to leave the country. How many others are also caught in this?

A degree would be nice. Just like we need in Farang world. Unqualified teachers should not teach.

Insult to the profession. Go practice law. Why not. This is Thailand

[kaorop]

I think teachers should be "qualified teachers" not a regular person who likes thailand and wants to stay here forever......and picks the easiest job in the world to cover their cost of living. Half of these supposed English Teachers and Thai Language Students from overseas have no interest at all in either teaching .......or learning.

Get a visa like all the genuine working folk, or get out and find somewhere else to hang out like sub-sahara africa......no issues with visas down there.

teaching is the easiest job in the world? O . o

check your facts friend

maybe he should stand in front of 50+ 16/17 yr old thai male auto mechanics and try to hold sway

or maybe spend a day in Annuban with 100+ 3/4/5 yr old

and get back to us on how easy it is

[Hawkman]

A degree would be nice. Just like we need in Farang world. Unqualified teachers should not teach.

Insult to the profession. Go practice law. Why not. This is Thailand

Many countries around the globe you don't need a degree to teach TEFL.

So you think people need to do four years of studying for a degree to teach TEFL? If that happens, then no poor kids around the world will ever have the chance to speak or learn English.

Nobody in their right mind would study for four years for a TEFL degree and then be rewarded with TEFL wages.

[Hawkman]

Why do they think that most of visa runners are english teachers. Kinda strange for me.

This new rules affected many people who spend more than 60+ baht each month and not work in Thailand.

P.S. Damn English teachers, why innocent should suffer because of your sins? If you work in Thailand got work permit, what's wrong with you i though western people are good enough to respect the laws.

Its a bit hard to apply for a work permit without the co-operation of the employer!

Quite right.

Plus, innocents haven't suffered because of English teachers, they were never the prime target. Sounds like another TVF grump, bitter and jealous towards teachers.

[chrisinth]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I don't understand this announcement at all. Is it not a tacit admittance that there are many English teachers working illegally? And they want this to continue? Instead, why don't they change their laws regarding Work Permits and Visas for foreign teachers to make them faster and easier to obtain? The mind boggles.

I would agree with that. But would also add a proper vetting of potential teachers as well through a devoted body.

Agencies sending unqualified people to places they don't really want to go to is, IMHO, no use what so ever to the children who need the education.

After all, it is the children who must come first.

[greenchair]

What bureau is he talking about i

[Hawkman]

I think the whole immigration/visa thing needs a complete overhaul, like by the time the wife & I go back to Thailand, we will be married at least 12 years, to Me that should make it easier to become a citizen, but we all know it won't.

As for the English Teachers with this Micky mouse Certificate teaching English, this should stop.I was Educated & raised here in London, speak with a cockney accent, most Americans find it hard to understand Me, imagine Me trying to teach young Thai kids English, I don't think so.

A French guy befriended Me on FB via another friend, trying to get information about marriage visa for his wife, his written English was so bad I had trouble trying to make sense of what he was actually asking, this guy now teaches English somewhere in BKK..............................Wrong in every way.

Hard enough if you are a native English speaker with a regional accent..............near on impossible if English is your second language & you speak with a heavy accent...............Leave the teaching to the professionals, that's why they went to uni & got a degree , or go get that degree your self.

You're talking about isolated incidents. The French guy should not be teaching English full stop. Doesn't mean the whole TEFL business around the globe has to come crashing down.

There's rubbish teachers, some good ones. You don't need a degree to teach TEFL. Of course, being CELTA, DELTA qualified and having a Master's in education will sure help you become a better teacher, but there's no way that people with all of those qualifications would work for TEFL wages. Makes zero sense.

[GoonDizzy]

I hope this lot sort out a WP for the 'lucky' applicant without the need for visa runs. I'm not naming the school , but this is the advertisement currently on a well known jobsite for teaching in LOS.

A teaching degree is required.

The position that we are offering is grade 1-2 split. We follow an International Common core curriculum (US/Canada. ) The candidate MUST have a valid teaching licence from Canada/US/UK or NZ. School starts September 1. We are interviewing in the next few days by Skype. Interested parties should respond ASAP.

So, they want a QTS level tutor after asking for a valid teaching licence from UK/USA etc.

Fair enough. But for 30,000 baht a month?

Off their rockers.

[Kasset Tak]

The fact that he acknowledged the problem, shows that this visa thing has hurt the schools in a huge way. Interesting how this is being looked at by the higher ups.

I know of 5 schools that had foreigners teaching last year but when the new school year started in May they did not. These schools offered 30-40k a month for a total of 12 teachers but still no teachers... And that was before the crackdown on visa runners!

BTW these school are all out in the "small" villages about 400-500 km from Bangkok.

[mataleo]

And why all off teacher talking is not del.?

[Phuketboy]

Think I might go and work as an accountant somewhere. I haven't studied it and don't have a degree in accounting, but running businesses for many years and have worked with figures and money daily. Would anyone of you hire me to do your accounts? Probably not right? So why on hell do these people think they can come and teach here? Get a degree so you know what you are doing, then you can go looking for teaching jobs. When looking for a school for my daughter I asked the question, do all your teachers have degrees? If they didn't there was no way in hell I was sending my daughter there. As it was we found a great school, with a fantastic english program all taught my REAL teachers with degrees.

[mataleo]

Think I might go and work as an accountant somewhere. I haven't studied it and don't have a degree in accounting, but running businesses for many years and have worked with figures and money daily. Would anyone of you hire me to do your accounts? Probably not right? So why on hell do these people think they can come and teach here? Get a degree so you know what you are doing, then you can go looking for teaching jobs. When looking for a school for my daughter I asked the question, do all your teachers have degrees? If they didn't there was no way in hell I was sending my daughter there. As it was we found a great school, with a fantastic english program all taught my REAL teachers with degrees.

I got friend

Girl

Graduated from linguistic studies. English

She speak few lang.

Schools still plays her around with wp

Cant get it

Only empty promises.

And they play on time...

Now she want to leave to otjer country

Philipines she says

Here everything works but in theory...

Edited August 23, 2014 by mataleo

[Jiu-Jitsu]

I suppose this is another one of those phrases that lost something in translation: "The runners can register with the bureau". Register as what, visa runners?

It means that if you can show that you are an English teacher or 'academic', you won't get hassle at the border each time. If you are running a business without a work permit, expect more scrutiny.

OK, then one would be registering as "I work in Thailand illegally as a teacher on a tourist visa"? Were I in that boat, I think I would prefer simply registering as a visa runner.

If they are not going to let you in anyway.... it's not going to hurt to be more honest.

[John1thru10]

I haven't read the whole thing through yet, so don't know if anyone has picked up on my point but if I don't post now I'll forget to do it.

The original post, reported in the nation

Foreigners had been exploiting tourist visas and visas on arrival by illegally working in the country, mostly as English teachers.

Prayuth said the change of the visa system concerning visa runners had considerably affected certain groups such as English teachers and academics.

"So, this is an ongoing problem that needs to be resolved, as it can lead to a shortage of English teachers and guides," he said during his weekly TV programme.

But, but, but - didn't they say that the crackdown was aimed at a particular group, that group consisting of Russians, Koreans and Japanese? Didn't they say that on more than one occasion? How many of any of those 3 nationalities have the skills to teach English? Were they just making that up?

So while legal and above board English teachers should have no problems (apart from minor teething problems when a new employer is getting the paperwork together where people may have to be on a tourist visa, possibly two tourist visa's but no more than that as it 120 days is more than enough time to sort a work permit out) the only ones who would be affected are the ones who are not legally working. The general seems to be saying ease up on the clamp down on undocumented English teachers working illegally without a work permit.

Just sayin'.

It is an obvious contradiction, among many. There is also a tendency on the board here, in how these statements are interpreted, to describe Thai people as if they were of 'one mind': 'Thai people want this' or 'think that', which simply isn't true in reality (of course). The oversimplification of 'what Thai people think' confuses the situation a great deal on the board, I believe as well.

Edited August 23, 2014 by John1thru10

[JDGRUEN]

A hint of good news in one breath ... then in second thought - if this proves to have any written policy, official change in law with proper written guidance within six months... then I will be totally amazed... What are those in limbo going to do next week, next month, or ? Hop around to friendly border crossing, airports - land crossings... respond to rumors ... ?

Maybe someone finally figured out there were next to no legal visa categories left now that would allow but a few under age 50 to stay long term. Implement a crackdown with obvious unintended consequences and someone goes 'Oh yeah' - what do we do about that?

I am happy it does not affect me --- I would not want to be on this yoyo...

With military rule with an installed PM, it is a prime opportunity to straighten out the mess, contradictions, confusion that comprises the immigration policy... I hope that they ask for more Expat opinion via thaivisa.com as that have already done.

Many reforms could be done in weeks with little more than a stroke of a pen...

[cacruden]

Think I might go and work as an accountant somewhere. I haven't studied it and don't have a degree in accounting, but running businesses for many years and have worked with figures and money daily. Would anyone of you hire me to do your accounts? Probably not right? So why on hell do these people think they can come and teach here? Get a degree so you know what you are doing, then you can go looking for teaching jobs. When looking for a school for my daughter I asked the question, do all your teachers have degrees? If they didn't there was no way in hell I was sending my daughter there. As it was we found a great school, with a fantastic english program all taught my REAL teachers with degrees.

Personally, in the field I work (software development) - I don't care if someone has a degree. I only care about whether they can do the job. A degree does not indicate that they can program, only that they have some fundamental theoretical knowledge. I have run into great programmers and disastrous programmers that have degrees. I have run into fantastic programmers that do not have a degree.

As for teachers, I remember I had some wonderful teachers when I was a little kid, but I also had teachers that did not know what they were teaching and were disasters (but they were "qualified"). I find it funny "unqualified" teachers can teach at Universities and at Colleges -- just because they know what they are teaching -- but would be "unqualified" to teach english even though they use it everyday of their lives and are knowledgeable in it.

[John1thru10]

Think I might go and work as an accountant somewhere. I haven't studied it and don't have a degree in accounting, but running businesses for many years and have worked with figures and money daily. Would anyone of you hire me to do your accounts? Probably not right? So why on hell do these people think they can come and teach here? Get a degree so you know what you are doing, then you can go looking for teaching jobs. When looking for a school for my daughter I asked the question, do all your teachers have degrees? If they didn't there was no way in hell I was sending my daughter there. As it was we found a great school, with a fantastic english program all taught my REAL teachers with degrees.

Personally, in the field I work (software development) - I don't care if someone has a degree. I only care about whether they can do the job. A degree does not indicate that they can program, only that they have some fundamental theoretical knowledge. I have run into great programmers and disastrous programmers that have degrees. I have run into fantastic programmers that do not have a degree.

As for teachers, I remember I had some wonderful teachers when I was a little kid, but I also had teachers that did not know what they were teaching and were disasters (but they were "qualified"). I find it funny "unqualified" teachers can teach at Universities and at Colleges -- just because they know what they are teaching -- but would be "unqualified" to teach english even though they use it everyday of their lives and are knowledgeable in it.

I think you're overlooking that software delevopment isn't a career which allows access to young children. Thailand has had it's share of difficulty with individuals who have less than admirable intentions (no aspersions meant cast there, at all - but it's a big world), and demanding degrees may well have been an ineffectual way of saying it had taken steps to assure against it.

Edited August 23, 2014 by John1thru10

[Mudcrab]

Register with the bureau? For what, exactly? A visa runner visa? A tefl runner visa? To get deported? Hopefully, some clarification will be on its way.

maybe its a clever ploy to get all the dumb ar*ses to turn up and try to register thinking they are getting something for nothing and they will arrest the lot of them, then depo

I remember reading about a similar stunt used by cops in the US. They sent out invitations to a bunch of crims to their last known address promising some dodgy prize draw or whatever. When all the greedy buggers turned up looking for something for nothing , the cops arrested them all.

[cacruden]

Think I might go and work as an accountant somewhere. I haven't studied it and don't have a degree in accounting, but running businesses for many years and have worked with figures and money daily. Would anyone of you hire me to do your accounts? Probably not right? So why on hell do these people think they can come and teach here? Get a degree so you know what you are doing, then you can go looking for teaching jobs. When looking for a school for my daughter I asked the question, do all your teachers have degrees? If they didn't there was no way in hell I was sending my daughter there. As it was we found a great school, with a fantastic english program all taught my REAL teachers with degrees.

Personally, in the field I work (software development) - I don't care if someone has a degree. I only care about whether they can do the job. A degree does not indicate that they can program, only that they have some fundamental theoretical knowledge. I have run into great programmers and disastrous programmers that have degrees. I have run into fantastic programmers that do not have a degree.

As for teachers, I remember I had some wonderful teachers when I was a little kid, but I also had teachers that did not know what they were teaching and were disasters (but they were "qualified"). I find it funny "unqualified" teachers can teach at Universities and at Colleges -- just because they know what they are teaching -- but would be "unqualified" to teach english even though they use it everyday of their lives and are knowledgeable in it.

I think you're overlooking that software delevopment isn't a career which allows access to young children. Thailand has had it's share of difficulty with individuals who have less than admirable intentions (no aspersions meant cast there, at all - but it's a big world), and demanding degrees may well have been an ineffectual way of saying it had taken steps to assure against it.

There are less than admirable people people all over the place, and Thailand has more than it's share living here (and some may even be teachers). I know of one music teacher that was forced out (not sure about the legal side of it since I was gone before that happened; although there were rumours about him when I went). My father threatened to send me to a good catholic school run by the brothers in Newfoundland that were disciplinarians to "straighten me out" (yes, that group of brothers that were later one of the biggest scandals in the Catholic church). Where-ever there are sheep, you will have wolves.... but you often they turn out to be people that were least suspected. A teaching degree will not weed those out.

[John1thru10]

Think I might go and work as an accountant somewhere. I haven't studied it and don't have a degree in accounting, but running businesses for many years and have worked with figures and money daily. Would anyone of you hire me to do your accounts? Probably not right? So why on hell do these people think they can come and teach here? Get a degree so you know what you are doing, then you can go looking for teaching jobs. When looking for a school for my daughter I asked the question, do all your teachers have degrees? If they didn't there was no way in hell I was sending my daughter there. As it was we found a great school, with a fantastic english program all taught my REAL teachers with degrees.

Personally, in the field I work (software development) - I don't care if someone has a degree. I only care about whether they can do the job. A degree does not indicate that they can program, only that they have some fundamental theoretical knowledge. I have run into great programmers and disastrous programmers that have degrees. I have run into fantastic programmers that do not have a degree.

As for teachers, I remember I had some wonderful teachers when I was a little kid, but I also had teachers that did not know what they were teaching and were disasters (but they were "qualified"). I find it funny "unqualified" teachers can teach at Universities and at Colleges -- just because they know what they are teaching -- but would be "unqualified" to teach english even though they use it everyday of their lives and are knowledgeable in it.

I think you're overlooking that software delevopment isn't a career which allows access to young children. Thailand has had it's share of difficulty with individuals who have less than admirable intentions (no aspersions meant cast there, at all - but it's a big world), and demanding degrees may well have been an ineffectual way of saying it had taken steps to assure against it.

There are less than admirable people people all over the place, and Thailand has more than it's share living here (and some may even be teachers). I know of one music teacher that was forced out (not sure about the legal side of it since I was gone before that happened; although there were rumours about him when I went). My father threatened to send me to a good catholic school run by the brothers in Newfoundland that were disciplinarians to "straighten me out" (yes, that group of brothers that were later one of the biggest scandals in the Catholic church). Where-ever there are sheep, you will have wolves.... but you often they turn out to be people that were least suspected. A teaching degree will not weed those out.

I didn't mean to imply that it was fair, or that it worked. I just remember that, some years ago, there was a highly publicized case where an America gradeschool teacher wrote to the international media from Bangkok (where he was teaching) claiming to have been the muderderer of Joan Bennet Ramsey - this famous child murder mystery in the US which dominated the media for a decade or so. He was just a sick guy, but it brought a ton of bad attention to Thailand at the time - and, I THINK that was a turning point where they started demanding teachers be vetted more strictly.