Retirees, are you worried that the rules might change?

[Farang99]

Sure -- but someone who has continuously been on extension via retirement since the 200,000 per year deposit or 20,000 baht per month income was in effect still has only to comply with that provision as in the new police order it states at 2.22:

(6) An alien who entered the Kingdom before October 21, 1998 and has been

consecutively permitted to stay in the Kingdom for retirement shall be subject to the following

criteria: (etc.)

I got my first retirement visa on October 20, 1998 - the day before the new 800,000 was announced. The following year I still showed the 200,000 and got my visa, but for the third year I was hit with the demand for a 800,000 balance!

[JLCrab]

I dunno. Maybe there is a discrepancy in the translation and you complied under the terms of the English translation but not the Thai original.

[JackJD]

Forget retirement visa requirements. A more valid concern for you David, at 55, and for me, is what happens when China invades Japan, America joins the fray, and Thailand allies with China?

That is the most INVALID concern I have ever heard. Totally ridiculous! The KING is an AMERICAN CITIZEN - born there on purpose!

American "takes care" of Thailand when it come to military defense.

Those are FACTS known to all intelligent, educated humans. Of course, uneducated morons will have opinions contrary to the truth.

[ZAKY]

It has many economic advantages for Thailand and no obvious disadvantages

Disadvantages include...

• Many of the retirees regularly break the law by using prostitutes which is illegal in Thailand and very bad for Thailand's image on the world stage.

• Dwindling amount of money or limited pensions which aren't worth quite as much as they used to be causing people to get into financial trouble they can't get out of - can lead to homelessness etc.

• Old people tend to need more medical treatment than younger people and might not be able to afford to pay for it.

I dont think that retirees are prostitute users as generally they are already old, and less oriented towards sex, they tends more to have a regular girlfriend for sharing their lives together. On the other hand, Thai law does not encourage a foreigner to get married to a Thai because even with the marriage visa he will still be like a tourist and cannot work here unless he obtain a work permit, which is quite difficult.

[Spoonman]

[natway09]

Just get on with it (or not) Your gonna die anyway

[Caspersfriend]

........... You'd be better off trying to converse with a monkey or just beat you head against a brick wall.

Irrespective of how valid your input is: Such comments infer you have previous experience in both cases ....

[paddyjenkins]

........... You'd be better off trying to converse with a monkey or just beat you head against a brick wall.

Irrespective of how valid your input is: Such comments infer you have previous experience in both cases ....

I have, many times, on this forum

[Caspersfriend]

........... You'd be better off trying to converse with a monkey or just beat you head against a brick wall.

Irrespective of how valid your input is: Such comments infer you have previous experience in both cases ....

I have, many times, on this forum

We all need external stimuli to avoid stagnating ... to each his or her own

[bertty]

I'm not retired yet but I'm not too concerned if I were on a retirement visa. I can always go back to the free healthcare system in my home country if I get too old to take care of myself. And I wouldnt want to die in Thailand anyway, my bones would not be happy about that.

Under government retirement age, and you will have to wait 6 months to get free healthcare in England, upon your return.

Ah good old free health care. That will be what I spent 20-30 pounds a week paying for for 39 years.

[larsjohnsson]

I think things stay as it is now but all retirees should have medical insurance before the extension is given.

Went last week to a hospital and saw an old Australian chap with serious hard conditions. When I asked him if he has any savings to get in to a private hospital he told the Mrs from Pattaya took all his money.

Many people can't obtain medical insurance due to pre existing medical conditions.

I am one such person and only 54.

What do you suggest for people in my position?

Travel insurance

Travel insurance excludes pre-existing conditions so you are only covered for non-pre-existing conditions.

Not when you declare it

[JLCrab]

Travel Coverage covers pre-existing conditions and you declare it and they agree IN WRITING to cover such pre-existing conditions -- and then they must decide that you are medically incapable of returning to your home country for treatment.

Edited August 25, 2014 by JLCrab

[Bulldozer Dawn]

Forget retirement visa requirements. A more valid concern for you David, at 55, and for me, is what happens when China invades Japan, America joins the fray, and Thailand allies with China?

That is the most INVALID concern I have ever heard. Totally ridiculous! The KING is an AMERICAN CITIZEN - born there on purpose!

American "takes care" of Thailand when it come to military defense.

Those are FACTS known to all intelligent, educated humans. Of course, uneducated morons will have opinions contrary to the truth.

And what of his successor?

[Mosha]

Ubonjoe, I am optimistic but also realistic. I am not talking about possible changes to the visa rules in the next year or so, but perhaps 20 years in the future, and none of us can know what will happen.

But based on the history of 'retirement' visas, and the general rules regarding issue of visas to foreigners, do you really think it is likely that there will be no changes to the rules, or that the requirements will be eased?

IMHO,, I do not think for 1 second that the visa rules will remain unchanged or will be eased.in the future. The logical assumption is that they will be made stricter, to what degree or how is unknown.

Alzheimers will have kicked in by then, I'll be past caring.

[larsjohnsson]

There are various types of medical travel insurance, in the UK at least there are products designed for the over 65 crowd where pre-existing conditions can be declared. The price of the insurance is higher than it would be for a 25 year old in perfect health but what do you expect, the cost is still not unduly onerous.

Declared and covered or declared and excluded?

Note: There is an AXA/UK Travel Insurance policy that will only cover pre-existing conditions if they have agreed to do so in writing prior to your travel.

At least in my home country you can declare it. And also get covered. Obviously the price will be a bit higher.

[larsjohnsson]

You don't have more control over PR or citizenship.

If you obtain citizenship, then apart from being eligible to run for Prime Minister, you are a Thai citizen, with the rights of any other Thai citizen. Your future is assured. If you obtain PR, then unless you commit some heinous act, it is very unlikely that your PR status will be revoked.

But in the case of retirement visa extensions, and any other type of visa extension, you are allowed to stay in Thailand on a temporary basis as a non-immigrant, for no more than 1 year. The conditions to allow you to stay for a further year could change, for better or for worse.

I suppose my question is why so few foreigners who intend to stay in Thailand for the long-term have not applied for PR or citizenship.

You wrote that we have the next 10 year to get PR or citizenship. So the changes can come a long time before you actually get it.

Retirees don't work and pay tax. So I don't belive they can apply for both PR & Citizenship either.

Edited August 25, 2014 by larsjohnsson

[chiang mai]

There are various types of medical travel insurance, in the UK at least there are products designed for the over 65 crowd where pre-existing conditions can be declared. The price of the insurance is higher than it would be for a 25 year old in perfect health but what do you expect, the cost is still not unduly onerous.

Declared and covered or declared and excluded?

Declared and covered:

http://www.money.co.uk/travel-insurance/travel-insurance-with-medical-conditions.htm

That is a list of brokers/packagers not underwriters and the few that I have viewed would require an acceptance of pre-existing conditions in advance. They probably all use AXA as an underwriter which required approval in writing.

BTW that's a UK site and UK brokers/agents, I don't believe that underwriters are allowed to advertise in the UK.

[metisdead]

Quote only posts have been removed.

[louse1953]

Ubonjoe, I am optimistic but also realistic. I am not talking about possible changes to the visa rules in the next year or so, but perhaps 20 years in the future, and none of us can know what will happen.

But based on the history of 'retirement' visas, and the general rules regarding issue of visas to foreigners, do you really think it is likely that there will be no changes to the rules, or that the requirements will be eased?

IMHO,, I do not think for 1 second that the visa rules will remain unchanged or will be eased.in the future. The logical assumption is that they will be made stricter, to what degree or how is unknown.

If none of us can know,including yourself,you are just scaremongering and potstirring.

[louse1953]

I personally think Thailand should require from all retirees proof of income of at least 65,000 baht/month (which is about 800,000 baht/year) and get rid of the 800,000 baht in a bank account rule. Right now, there are way too many people on a tiny pension who choose to live here and do not significantly contribute to the economy.

Where does it say in the retirement visa rules you have to significantly contribute to the economy.There are many ways to contribute,not just financially.

[MacWalen]

I'm sure many are worried. Normal in a country where things change from time to time. By they way what retirement age is 50? Really? Many just start business at 50. Things may change and I wouldn't be 100 % sure about being grandfathered.

[KittenKong]

By they way what retirement age is 50? Really? Many just start business at 50.

My only regret at retiring at 50 was not having done it earlier. As for starting a business once retired, surely that defeats the whole point of being retired?

Retirement = long holiday. Suits me fine.

[KittenKong]

I personally think Thailand should require from all retirees proof of income of at least 65,000 baht/month (which is about 800,000 baht/year) and get rid of the 800,000 baht in a bank account rule. Right now, there are way too many people on a tiny pension who choose to live here and do not significantly contribute to the economy.

Where does it say in the retirement visa rules you have to significantly contribute to the economy.

It doesn't. But clearly the only advantage to Thailand of having a long retirement visa system is financial. The same applies to tourism generally. Countries encourage tourism because it is easy money. If they didnt want this easy money so much they would surely make it harder for foreigners to enter the country, and some countries do this.

[tlcwaterfall]

Ubonjoe, I am optimistic but also realistic. I am not talking about possible changes to the visa rules in the next year or so, but perhaps 20 years in the future, and none of us can know what will happen.

But based on the history of 'retirement' visas, and the general rules regarding issue of visas to foreigners, do you really think it is likely that there will be no changes to the rules, or that the requirements will be eased?

IMHO,, I do not think for 1 second that the visa rules will remain unchanged or will be eased.in the future. The logical assumption is that they will be made stricter, to what degree or how is unknown.

"The logical assumption is that they will be made stricter, to what degree or how is unknown."

Why in your opinion is this a logical assumption?

Do you seriously believe Thailand will make it harder for people to stay and spend money in Thailand?

I am reasonably confident the authorities are wise enough to realise that expats here make a sizeable financial contribution to the economy. Maybe not huge in percentage terms when you think about their economy but still a worthwhile amount.

If I am running a business I would always welcome new customers and their financial contribution to my business. I may not like all of my customers but I sure as hell will not make it harder for them to do business with me.

It appears to me that the current financial requirements are reasonably fair and achievable for most people that choose to live here.

Of course it would be nice if the authorities were to offer say a 2 year extension or even more. That to me would be practical for both the country and the retiree. Less paperwork and less visits to immigration.

Just my opinion of course and only time will tell. I would think that retirees here are not seen as a problem to the country and logically we should be seen as an asset due to our financial contribution.

[kriswillems]

I think it's likely that someday things will change. It depends a bit on how strong Thai economy will become. Suppose Thailand slowly changes into an industrial power, it will probably not need retired farang anymore, but it will try to focus on high profit tourists (people that spend 5000 baht or more per day).

Thailand is changing - that's a fact, and many Thai people have a higher daily budget than retired farang.

But I think we can't expect such a change anytime soon and if there would be a change I am pretty sure those having a retirement visa will be grandfathered.

Edited August 26, 2014 by kriswillems

[Pattaya46]

// Thailand will probably not need retired farang anymore, but it will try to focus on high profit tourists (people that spend 5000 baht or more per day). //

There are many retired farangs who match that criteria

5'000 B/day is monthly about 5'000 $, 4'000 or 3'000 £

Anyone who got some success in his career can easily get that.

You should better look in nice houses around Pratumnak

rather than guesthouses on Soi Buakhao to find them though

[OJAS]

But I think we can't expect such a change anytime soon and if there would be a change I am pretty sure those having a retirement visa will be grandfathered.

Indeed. What is more of a likely threat, I suspect, is a dramatic and significant appreciation in the THB's value against other currencies (as happened 18 months ago, for instance), resulting in a number of retirees finding it an increasing struggle to meet even the existing 65,000 THB monthly income requirement if they rely on that particular method of proving finances at annual extension of stay time.

And to compound matters, individual immigration offices could easily at a whim, it would appear, determine that net income should be taken into account in calculating compliance with the 65,000 THB monthly income requirement, instead of gross income as at present - just as has happened in the case of the seasoning requirement for bank balances which appears to have been recently extended to the "combination" method of proving finances at Chaengwattana Immigration at any rate.

[Naam]

// Thailand will probably not need retired farang anymore, but it will try to focus on high profit tourists (people that spend 5000 baht or more per day). //

There are many retired farangs who match that criteria

5'000 B/day is monthly about 5'000 $, 4'000 or 3'000 £

Anyone who got some success in his career can easily get that.

You should better look in nice houses around Pratumnak

rather than guesthouses on Soi Buakhao to find them though

a strange logic that does not take into consideration how many days the "high profit tourist" spends in Thailand compared to the retiree who spends all or nearly all his time in the country. it is therefore safe to assume that even a "poor" retiree spends more than the afore-mentioned "high profit tourist".

Edited August 26, 2014 by Naam

[Asiantravel]

I'm sure many are worried. Normal in a country where things change from time to time. By they way what retirement age is 50? Really? Many just start business at 50. Things may change and I wouldn't be 100 % sure about being grandfathered.

Rubbish! It's a gross exaggeration to say “ many people” are worried because as so many other posters have said why would any rational government make it hard for people to simply live here and only spend money?

I'm not talking about people who do anything " on the side illegaly "( according to the terms of their retirement visa ). I'm talking about genuine bona fide retirees.

And if you have such little faith in the way the Thai government thinks it makes me wonder how you had sufficient confidence to start a business here yourself.

[simon43]

...why would any rational government make it hard for people to simply live here and only spend money?...

I spot a flaw in your logic. It's all about the word 'rational'