Extremly Important Warning for Foreigners Coming/New To Thailand

[manxcay]

Hi there,

Been reading on here about foreigners coming to Thailand and ending up getting killed because they didn't know about and respect Thai culture.

They do things like show aggression or anger towards Thais and end up making the Thais extremely violent and then the foreigner gets killed.

You need to understand that "Face" is paramount in Thai culture and indeed a lot of East Asian cultures, showing aggression or disagreeing too strongly with them can cause them a loss of "Face".

In the western culture "Face" could be loosely compared to being "respected" - if someone disrespects you in public as a westerner it could probably make you feel embarrassed/annoyed but it would rarely lead to the sort of violence it often does lead to in Thailand.

As an example, if you think they are trying to overcharge you for a drink or something just pay the bit extra, even disagreeing with them over the price of a few Beers could even cause a loss of "Face", and a situation where you've been consuming alcohol is where its easy to start stepping out of line from the Thai's point of view.

You really do need to accept what I am telling you here if you want to avoid coming to the nasty end a lot of other foreigners have done.

A lot of us have been indoctrinated with the "all cultures are the same" multi-culti PC bullshit, but after having lived in Thailand for a few years I can honestly tell you that this is 100% wrong.

Also advice stemming from this is to completely avoid drinking in places that are not geared towards foreigners and getting drunk in the places that Thais drink in, when you are drunk its much harder to make judgements about behaving appropriately - especially important if there's mainly Thais around because you are going to stick out like a sore thumb, and you need to remember that a lot of Thais have concealed firearms.

I was naive about Thai culture when I was there and I believe I had a lucky escape, although I'm naturally non/violent aggressive.

If this post saves one Farang/foreigner from getting seriously hurt or worse then its been worth it as far as I'm concerned.

[AYJAYDEE]

misbehaving due to drunkeness can get you in trouble anywhere

[bowerboy]

I think the whole 'face' thing is overrated and over estimated and misunderstood.

No one likes to be made to look stupid but westerners are mature enough to accept when they are wrong and understand that its part of life...Asians and Thais in particular just don't have that same level of maturity (in the same way that Children may not)...that is pretty much it....

[Costas2008]

OP, thank you very much for your advice.

I was just about getting ready to go to Thailand, but after reading your post, first thing tomorrow morning I'm going to cancel my trip.

So, is it soooooo bad there?

Are Thais so violent and kill people everyday, for not respecting their culture?

Do they usually overcharge for drinks and then beat you up?

Do they all have guns on them?

Oh, thank you OP, you have saved my life.

You can sleep, peacefully tonight knowing that you saved another farangs life.

[manxcay]

misbehaving due to drunkeness can get you in trouble anywhere

I think you've misunderstood the point of my post, it doesn't have to involve being drunk but I do think you need to be exceptionally careful in those situations.

[Eddy B]

I agree with most of what you have written but not all of it. A friend of mine a few years ago used to tell me some stories about bars he had been into around our small town and tell me about how he was abused or almost assaulted. A few days later I went to the same bars and ordered what I wanted to drink in broken Thai. Never did I have a problem in any of these places and even when they did make a mistake with the bill I just showed them the mistake and made a joke about it. The waitress altered the bill and all was good. I think sometimes bad luck follows certain people if they are unlucky or just push the wrong people. I have been here so far for 10 years and never have I had a problem.

[manxcay]

OP, thank you very much for your advice.

I was just about getting ready to go to Thailand, but after reading your post, first thing tomorrow morning I'm going to cancel my trip.

So, is it soooooo bad there?

Are Thais so violent and kill people everyday, for not respecting their culture?

Do they usually overcharge for drinks and then beat you up?

Do they all have guns on them?

Oh, thank you OP, you have saved my life.

You can sleep, peacefully tonight knowing that you saved another farangs life.

Mock if you want Coastas, but the news here on ThaiVisa is proof that Farangs need to wise up if they don't want to end up like some of the less lucky ones did.

[manxcay]

what a croc of .....

No its not, a Thai I used to work with told me that "people get angry here" and I didn't really understand what he was trying to tell me, but now I do.

[rgs2001uk]

I agree with most of what you have written but not all of it. A friend of mine a few years ago used to tell me some stories about bars he had been into around our small town and tell me about how he was abused or almost assaulted. A few days later I went to the same bars and ordered what I wanted to drink in broken Thai. Never did I have a problem in any of these places and even when they did make a mistake with the bill I just showed them the mistake and made a joke about it. The waitress altered the bill and all was good. I think sometimes bad luck follows certain people if they are unlucky or just push the wrong people. I have been here so far for 10 years and never have I had a problem.

Behave like a tawat and you will be treated like one.

I drink in mainly Thai bars and dont have the problems asociated with farang bars where the ex CIA, Black Ops, Spooks, SAS, SBS, Boy Scouts and Sally Army brigade always think they are up for one last shot at the farang Heavy Weight Championship of the world.

Theres at least one bar on Soi LK Pattaya I could name, but wont, best avoided.

The Thais will usually give the offender at least three chances before they pummel the shit out of him, first off they ignore the remark, then they laugh it off, then they tell him he is drunk go home, after that, well som nam na.

I have been here for a similair amount of time, never had a problem

[AYJAYDEE]

misbehaving due to drunkeness can get you in trouble anywhere

I think you've misunderstood the point of my post, it doesn't have to involve being drunk but I do think you need to be exceptionally careful in those situations.

well , ive been here for years and none of that has happened to me or my friends. except the ones who were drunk and argumentative.

[manarak]

Thank god not everyone loses control and becomes a total jerk when drunk - funnily enough many westerners seem to think that being a jerk when drunk is not even the jerk's fault !!

LOL

Steering clear of any drunk people of any nationality is a good idea.

And if you know that you behave funny when drunk, either don't get drunk or GTFO from any place where other drunk people are, especially Thais of course.

And I really don't know why this is an extremely important warning!

Rather common sense.

I have limited sympathy for people getting in trouble because they lack common sense.

Edited August 30, 2014 by manarak

[manxcay]

misbehaving due to drunkeness can get you in trouble anywhere

I think you've misunderstood the point of my post, it doesn't have to involve being drunk but I do think you need to be exceptionally careful in those situations.

well , ive been here for years and none of that has happened to me or my friends. except the ones who were drunk and argumentative.

Being "argumentative" is an example of what I mean. Don't expect Thais to feel the same way about it as you would expect the average westerner to. As I said the "loss of face" is what you need to be aware of.

Even if it did go as far as a fight in the a western situation, it would probably end when one guy gets knocked out, but I've heard so many examples about Farangs getting viciously battered and worse.

I've heard it said that "Thais fight to kill", and I don't take that lightly now.

[AYJAYDEE]

misbehaving due to drunkeness can get you in trouble anywhere

I think you've misunderstood the point of my post, it doesn't have to involve being drunk but I do think you need to be exceptionally careful in those situations.

well , ive been here for years and none of that has happened to me or my friends. except the ones who were drunk and argumentative.

Being "argumentative" is an example of what I mean. Don't expect Thais to feel the same way about it as you would expect the average westerner to. As I said the "loss of face" is what you need to be aware of.

Even if it did go as far as a fight in the a western situation, it would probably end when one guy gets knocked out, but I've heard so many examples about Farangs getting viciously battered and worse.

I've heard it said that "Thais fight to kill", and I don't take that lightly now.

then stay out of bar fights. a good idea anywhere.

[manxcay]

Read this other article if you think I'm full of BS

http://tikikiki.com/2009/11/behind-the-smile-thailands-violent-side/

Most importantly, no matter how angry you get at a Thai person, whether it is because of a misunderstanding or because they are simply trying to rip you off, NEVER raise your voice and yell at them. This is the easiest way to start a fight. While getting in a loud verbal confrontation may be a normal way to vent anger in your country, it is absolutely NOT OKAY here.

And a one-on-one fight is simply not part of their reality. A fair fight of any kind is in many ways a Western ideal (one that rarely even occurs in the West). If you physically or verbally attack or fight with a Thai person, many others in the vicinity will see you as an attacker of Thai people in general, and you will quickly find yourself on the ground from punches being delivered from every direction. And if you think that’s where it ends, you’re sadly and dangerously mistaken.

Often, even a knockout doesn’t mean a finished fight in Thailand. Depending on what instigated the incident, once you are unconscious, those involved (or not) will continue to kick you in your face in the Thai streetfighting style. More often than not, getting in a fight in Thailand will end up with a foreigner in the hospital and sometimes dead. In many cases, other Thais will intervene and save you from being stomped to death, but intervening in someone else’s business is not a cultural norm, so do not depend on this, especially if you have really messed up.

Why this extreme violence in what is known as a peaceful culture? Is it because Thailand is an ethnocentric culture? Perhaps. Is it because of a simmering resentment for “rich” foreigners? Perhaps. Racism? Perhaps. The product of a lifetime of hiding your feelings and not showing anger of any kind? Perhaps. None of that is really the point. You can’t rationalize your way out of a reality, and you chose to come spend time in this country, so be aware of what you are up against. You are an outsider to them, and the outsider is always wrong.

Whatever you take from this article, avoid violence at all costs. It’s really as simple as using some manners even in extreme situations. Avoid visible anger at all costs. It isn’t going to get you anywhere in this country except for seriously injured. It’s better to just swallow your pride, pretend you haven’t been bothered, and leave the situation. In fact, fleeing the scene of an accident or altercation is seen as a perfectly respectable thing to do in this country because it is the last attempt to save face and avoid a confrontation.

[manxcay]

then stay out of bar fights. a good idea anywhere.

Of course it is. But a Farang could easily misjudge the situation, and end up too deep in it all because he failed to factor in the Thai cultural aspect.He might just think he's getting into a shouting contest of some sort and it will probably end when he "wins" the argument, but I'd strongly advise not even to let it even go that far.

[AYJAYDEE]

then stay out of bar fights. a good idea anywhere.

Of course it is. But a Farang could easily misjudge the situation, and end up too deep in it all because he failed to factor in the Thai cultural aspect.He might just think he's getting into a shouting contest of some sort and it will probably end when he "wins" the argument, but I'd strongly advise not even to let it even go that far.

and how exactly would a newcomer be able to speak thai and win an argument?

[manxcay]

then stay out of bar fights. a good idea anywhere.

Of course it is. But a Farang could easily misjudge the situation, and end up too deep in it all because he failed to factor in the Thai cultural aspect.He might just think he's getting into a shouting contest of some sort and it will probably end when he "wins" the argument, but I'd strongly advise not even to let it even go that far.

and how exactly would a newcomer be able to speak thai and win an argument?

It could be in English...

[3NUMBAS]

there are mystery deaths happening every week all over the realm

[AYJAYDEE]

then stay out of bar fights. a good idea anywhere.

Of course it is. But a Farang could easily misjudge the situation, and end up too deep in it all because he failed to factor in the Thai cultural aspect.He might just think he's getting into a shouting contest of some sort and it will probably end when he "wins" the argument, but I'd strongly advise not even to let it even go that far.

and how exactly would a newcomer be able to speak thai and win an argument?

It could be in English...

and these thai tough guys know english? lol

[SoiBiker]

Thank heavens such an expert turned up to issue this extremely important warning, eh?

We might have all died.

[JAFO]

@OP,

Its all about demographics for what you think the warnings should be heeded. Quick 3 areas that come to mind are Pattaya, Phuket and some seedy parts of BKK. Thailand is a BIG place. Once outside the heavily congested tourist areas, what you mentioned just does not happen. <deleted> do people always base what happens in those places as being the norm? People need to get our more.

[BuddhistVirus]

then stay out of bar fights. a good idea anywhere.

Of course it is. But a Farang could easily misjudge the situation, and end up too deep in it all because he failed to factor in the Thai cultural aspect.He might just think he's getting into a shouting contest of some sort and it will probably end when he "wins" the argument, but I'd strongly advise not even to let it even go that far.

and how exactly would a newcomer be able to speak thai and win an argument?

It could be in English...

Please STOP already...

[happydude303]

I was told 2 things by and old friend when I first went to Thailand , don't get involved in drugs and don't make a Thai lose face , I though that was two simple rules and I stick by them oh and don't get invoked in a Thai guy arguing with his lady ..

[squarethecircle]

Agreed, exceot your rec. to only go to places geared towards f~rangs. Almost all of the deaths occur in tourist oriented places like the southern beach "paradises" or BK/Pattaya/CM. In the out of the way spots in Issan u would really have to go out of your way to have problems as locals like u being there for the most part (if not actually treating you kike visiting royalty) and if anything untoward happened to you the authorities would look bad, so unless u are really asking for it, they would severely punish violence against foreigners.

[manxcay]

I was told 2 things by and old friend when I first went to Thailand , don't get involved in drugs and don't make a Thai lose face , I though that was two simple rules and I stick by them oh and don't get invoked in a Thai guy arguing with his lady ..

Lucky you got that advice.

I didn't even know about "face" before I went there, its even harder when there's not really an exact equivalent in the western culture.

Edited August 30, 2014 by manxcay

[AYJAYDEE]

I was told 2 things by and old friend when I first went to Thailand , don't get involved in drugs and don't make a Thai lose face , I though that was two simple rules and I stick by them oh and don't get invoked in a Thai guy arguing with his lady ..

Lucky you got that advice.

I didn't even know about "face" before I went there, its even harder when there's not really an exact equivalent in the western culture.

lol! go into a sports bar near a football or hockey stadium and start mouthin off to the locals and see if thats true! or better yet , try a black bar or native indian bar! lol

[ukrules]

The Thai prisons are full of those who didn't want to lose face.

People say you should never argue because you lose merely by arguing with someone, this is of course complete horseshit.

Thai's pull guns out and blow each others heads off on a daily basis, it's a violent society and there's plenty of uneducated morons (even those who graduated) who go around looking for a good reason to kill someone, saving face is just an excuse they use for their actions.

One example is the policeman who cut a womans arm off with a knife - this is the kind of people you're dealing with.

The hero who 'saves face' will still sit in prison for 10-20 years scraping by on meagre handouts from the state and whatever food his family can spare.

At least they saved face though.

Edited August 30, 2014 by ukrules

[champers]

When I saw the topic heading I thought something momentous had happened: earthquake, start of a civil war, yet another coup, Ebola outbreak. Instead it's really rather dull and disappointing. Bye bye.

[Thongkorn]

dollair

[ryanhull]

Never got in any situations with Thais they are fairly straight forward people and often fair... Act like a bell end you'll get your ass kicked, where as in western countries people are mainly all talk, Thais are more action when angry... Its about respect, give respect.. remember where you are and you'll be fine. Those who get mouthy or rude when drunk shouldn't be in Thailand, they should be in a western bar giving it all talk. Thais grow up learning how to fight and don't like to talk much... I've seen very large western and Russian guys get wasted by very small Thais purely because they acted like they probably do back home. Overall Thais are good safe people and very loyal if you build up a good friendship and don't act like a dick.. I have many good thai friends.

http://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=s6-308IcSGY

Edited August 30, 2014 by ryanhull