Please Help us get out of Thailand

[paz]

FYI: We are talking about a Thai citizen leaving Thailand on a British Passport. That should not be a problem. I suspect you got the wrong immigration officer.

I beleive Thai Law states that you must EXIT AND ENTER on the same passport, which means he should legally be able to leave on his British!

He entered on a Thai passport, now expired.

[RecklessRon]

FYI: We are talking about a Thai citizen leaving Thailand on a British Passport. That should not be a problem. I suspect you got the wrong immigration officer.

I beleive Thai Law states that you must EXIT AND ENTER on the same passport, which means he should legally be able to leave on his British!

He entered on a Thai passport, now expired.

He is Thai. Thai law does NOT say he must EXIT on the passport he ENTERED on it says

he must ENTER on the passport he EXITED on!

(Foreigners must Exit on the passport they Enter on!)

To sum up:

If Immigration sees him as a British citizen he will have to exit using the passport he entered on.

If Immigration sees him as a Thai citizen he can leave on his British passport whenever he wants but he must return on it, not his Thai passport.

If Immigration sees him as BOTH you'll probably need the Thai passport.

BTW: If I were the OP I'd go to Vientienne by land immediately.

Edited August 31, 2014 by RecklessRon

[paz]

He is Thai. Thai law does NOT say he must EXIT on the passport he ENTERED on it says

he must ENTER on the passport he EXITED on!

(Foreigners must Exit on the passport they Enter on!)

Where this law can be read?

Makes little sense however, because Thais can enter Thailand with a Thai passport even if expired, that is in the immigration act.

[PaulTarpey]

The most important thing (aside from losing flight money, paying for accommodation, losing work money - I am self employed) is that my boy's education is going to suffer big time.

At the age of 5 your son's education will not suffer. And in fact, the extended stay in Thailand until this sorts itself out may solidify some bilingual abilities because this is the age where language is easily absorbed while at the same time formal education can quickly be replenished at a later date. During those first years of elementary school (in the USA) we always took our kids out for a few months, usually Nov-Jan, and it had little impact upon their overall education. Your wife will have to be the lead person in getting this straightened out, perhaps with the help of relatives or a local kamnaan. Your kid will have far more fun for a few weeks living in Nong Kai than would you. Kids at that age enjoy living within a Thai village setting. The main point is that the education at that age is not a concern, and in fact the situation is an opportunity as you spent too much time in tourist areas where your kid was able to rely on English.

Thank you and I agree with you ! The worry I have is that in the UK we get fined for taking kids out of school in term time - each parent getting around £60 per unauthorised absence. Some people get big bills due to differing definitions of an 'absence'. I have already forwarded my email to the British Embassy to the school to try and prove it was not my fault. He is already playing with some younger 'cousins' here and has uttered some words I cannot make out :-)

[PaulTarpey]

He is Thai. Thai law does NOT say he must EXIT on the passport he ENTERED on it says

he must ENTER on the passport he EXITED on!

(Foreigners must Exit on the passport they Enter on!)

Where this law can be read?

Makes little sense however, because Thais can enter Thailand with a Thai passport even if expired, that is in the immigration act.

It does not really matter what the law says when you have the immigration officer who passes you to 2 other female officers plus a policeman. Then the airline rep comes along and they all tell you to f*** off - actually the Eva Air rep was excellent, apologetic and polite and it was not his fault - even getting someone to go get our luggage and take out to the taxi rank before heading in. They said I can go but leave my wife and boy behind! Any future visits will be for less than 30 days to visit friends / family and we will only use UK passports - my wife is so upset and embarassed she does not want to be viewed as Thai - she'll get over it.

[masuk]

For all those holding dual passports, remember the basic rule that you have to always leave on the same passpory with which you entered.

also a basic rule to have 6 months still left in your passport before travelling.

[Satcommlee]

As a footnote I got a reply from the British Embassy email (automated) saying they will try to get in touch within 20 days.

I think you guys will have solved my problem before then

Thank you all.

And that was the emergency response!!!!!

[Richard W]

It is *possible* that a thai national must always enter and exit on his thai passport.

This is the law in many countries. Not sure how it is in Thailand.

It is not a requirement in Thailand. There are many cases of Thais living abroad entering and leaving on a foreign passport. The principle seems to be that one use the same nationality throughout a stay in Thailand. There are a few exceptions, such as when one naturalises as Thai. I can't remember what happens if one loses the nationality one entered with during a stay.

I beleive Thai Law states that you must EXIT AND ENTER on the same passport, which means he should legally be able to leave on his British!

That doesn't square with the usual practice of Thais using foreign passports.

[PaulTarpey]

We had that problem got to airport found out one daughters (Thai) passport was out of date tried to use UK passport to get on flight and was told "can Not" had to spend three extra days getting Thai passport renewed.

Best is to chill out do it right, one day at a time. Don't worry about school you have a sound excuse for him missing some school. If need be you could leave your wife to sort it and you could fly back and work.

Hope you get sorted soon all the best.

Thanks to the comments I have gone from my head being filled with 'cannot leave without Thai passport, cannot get Thai passport and nobody here cares' to being confident that it will be done and it is just a matter of time. Thanks for your words - just chilling now with Thai beer and the football. First thing tomorrow is the registration attempt - will report back.

[Lannatyne]

On a slight point of digress, I think this is worth pointing out to readers.

I'm in exactly same situation as OP : spouse and child with both UK and Thai passports, and me with UK only.

For long stays, it's normal to enter and exit using their Thai passports. However, for short visits, spouse and child enter on UK passports. Therefore, technically, they're entering as foreigners.

The SOLE reason we do this is due to Travel Insurance. A normal UK policy will cover UK citizens for standard travel risks. So, I know that my whole family is covered by the policy. Should spouse and child enter as Thai citizens, then in the event of a claim, it can't be stated that the insured persons are all UK citizens.

[paz]

The SOLE reason we do this is due to Travel Insurance. A normal UK policy will cover UK citizens for standard travel risks. So, I know that my whole family is covered by the policy. Should spouse and child enter as Thai citizens, then in the event of a claim, it can't be stated that the insured persons are all UK citizens.

I think you will find that using a passport instead of another is not enough to renounce citizenship under any legal or contractual aspect. Beside most policies do not limiit coverage to a given citizenship because that would be discriminatory, but perhaps residency.

Edited August 31, 2014 by paz

[ChiangraiTony]

Thank you all ! My wife has managed to speak to a lady (friend of a friend) who works in a house book office in Nong Khai. She says it takes 2 to 3 days normally but the boss (who needs to sign apparently) will take a fee of 500 baht to get it done same day.

We are going to take the friend's house book to that office with the fee first thing Monday.

Cross fingers!

Two weeks ago I accompanied my girlfriend to the local Amphur in Chiang Mai to add her and my baby daughter to the Blue Book. The cost was 10 baht each. Total of 20 baht to add two persons AND it took 1 hour.

[rotary]

I thought Thailand, and most countries say you must have a passport valid for 6 months to eneter the country but I guess since they are Thai passports that rule does not apply

[paz]

I thought Thailand, and most countries say you must have a passport valid for 6 months to eneter the country but I guess since they are Thai passports that rule does not apply

Thai people can enter country even with an expired passport. It's their country and that is a natural right.

[samran]

Thank you all ! My wife has managed to speak to a lady (friend of a friend) who works in a house book office in Nong Khai. She says it takes 2 to 3 days normally but the boss (who needs to sign apparently) will take a fee of 500 baht to get it done same day.

We are going to take the friend's house book to that office with the fee first thing Monday.

Cross fingers!

Two weeks ago I accompanied my girlfriend to the local Amphur in Chiang Mai to add her and my baby daughter to the Blue Book. The cost was 10 baht each. Total of 20 baht to add two persons AND it took 1 hour.

This is for a Thai child born overseas. Process is slightly different.

[hugh2121]

Thank you all ! My wife has managed to speak to a lady (friend of a friend) who works in a house book office in Nong Khai. She says it takes 2 to 3 days normally but the boss (who needs to sign apparently) will take a fee of 500 baht to get it done same day.

We are going to take the friend's house book to that office with the fee first thing Monday.

Cross fingers!

I'm a UK ex-pat. Your son might possibly be regarded as a UK citizen also (expired Thai passport).

I could not be entered into the same blue house book as the Thai nationals living in my home.

I have to have a yellow house book (just for me). This does indeed take up to a month to issue as it is not produced at the Amphoe although application is made there.

2 or 3 guarantors of residence and character are normally required.

[samran]

Thank you all ! My wife has managed to speak to a lady (friend of a friend) who works in a house book office in Nong Khai. She says it takes 2 to 3 days normally but the boss (who needs to sign apparently) will take a fee of 500 baht to get it done same day.

We are going to take the friend's house book to that office with the fee first thing Monday.

Cross fingers!

I'm a UK ex-pat. Your son might possibly be regarded as a UK citizen also (expired Thai passport).

I could not be entered into the same blue house book as the Thai nationals living in my home.

I have to have a yellow house book (just for me). This does indeed take up to a month to issue as it is not produced at the Amphoe although application is made there.

2 or 3 guarantors of residence and character are normally required.

Won't happen that way. Child is a Thai citizen and birth certificate and passport will attest to that. 2 days to process is my experience and anecdotal experience of friends and others here on Thai visa. He'll get in the blue book no worries with the correct documents.

[Mario2008]

My wife was in a brand new tabien baan where no people previous had registered within the hour.

I was in my yellow tabien baan within a few hours. Only took so long because the person signing off on it was away, so they just brought the book to my house at the end of the day.

[samran]

He is Thai. Thai law does NOT say he must EXIT on the passport he ENTERED on it says

he must ENTER on the passport he EXITED on!

(Foreigners must Exit on the passport they Enter on!)

Where this law can be read?

Makes little sense however, because Thais can enter Thailand with a Thai passport even if expired, that is in the immigration act.

It does not really matter what the law says when you have the immigration officer who passes you to 2 other female officers plus a policeman. Then the airline rep comes along and they all tell you to f*** off - actually the Eva Air rep was excellent, apologetic and polite and it was not his fault - even getting someone to go get our luggage and take out to the taxi rank before heading in. They said I can go but leave my wife and boy behind! Any future visits will be for less than 30 days to visit friends / family and we will only use UK passports - my wife is so upset and embarassed she does not want to be viewed as Thai - she'll get over it.

Once your son is registered on the house book, it will be a simple matter of getting a replacement passport for him next time. Won't be so much of an issue coming back on Thai passport for subsequent journeys.

[belg]

isn't there a rule that you cannot enter thailand if your passport does not have at least 6 months validity ? that would be the first thing that comes to my mind

[GOLDBUGGY]

I don't see why immigration made such a big deal about this. I could understand if your son entered on a UK Passport and now wanted to leave on a Thai Passport, as they would have a record of this. But on paper your son entered his own country on his Thai Passport. That should be the end of this as no records are kept on this, nor can he ever overstay.

I also don't understand why Immigration would not accept your sons expired passport to leave Thailand, since it is the one he came in on. It is not a requirement or law that a Thai hold a valid passport. Nor is it there role to insure you have a valid visa to the country you are going to. They will not refuse entry of any Thai whether his passport expired or not, so I do not understand why it does not apply here when leaving.

Thais do not need a passport to enter Laos. But they still need a Border Pass which cost about 50 Baht I think, and is good for 3 days. But to get that they probably also need some other form of Thai ID, which your son does not have. Unless they would accept an expired passport, which I do not know. I understand your reasoning in why you entered you son here on a Thai Passport for Visa savings. Also perhaps assuming you might be able to renew his Passport here. I would have thought you could also.

Here is a Link on how to travel using 2 Passports.

http://www.stylehiclub.com/cruising-flying/step-step-guide-to-traveling-with-two-passports/

[PaulTarpey]

Latest Status

Just been to the office for the House Registration. Fortunately my wife always carries birth certificates and marriage certificates with the passports. They wanted the marriage one - having seen the other post about having to travel back to home country to get it and bring it back, I am extremely pleased she takes these precautions!

Anyway we were first in the office. It is like a uk post office with counters and numbers with one person working and 3 others chatting to each other (unlike a UK Post Office they are actually eating food together off a desk!) - the other counters are empty. It filled up with 'customers' who are still sat there. My wife has been with the woman for over an hour - I got asked to sign a photocopy of my passport and my Mrs told me I could go and wait in the house - I was getting fed up and a bit annoyed at why it was talking so long.

The other customers who have waited for over an hour were just smiling and nodding and chatting quietly not seeming to care that other 'officers' were taking it easy and having a snack. By now in the UK someone would have lost it completely and asked if they were keeping the staff from their breakfast or other sarcastic remark.

My wife tells me that the woman is still saying 3 to 4 days and that the senior officer there (who is in another room at the back) has to sign the 'blue book'. My wife has a couple of envelopes - one with 250 baht and another with 500 baht - guess she knows the games.

Will write back with what happens when she gets out of that office.

[GOLDBUGGY]

As a note also, be very careful in the future on how you use dual citizenship. The passport you use to enter a country on can determine your present citizenship.

I knew a guy who also had duel citizenship with Canada and decide to go home to visit some family in the middle east. Since it was easier to enter using his old passport he went that way. But almost as soon as he got home he was drafted into the army and was not allowed to leave. This could been the same case of your son if he was 20 years old at the time when he came here.

Not sure how it all ended for him, but I am sure he did not get the holiday he expected.

[lopburi3]

isn't there a rule that you cannot enter thailand if your passport does not have at least 6 months validity ? that would be the first thing that comes to my mind

For the 6th or more time - traveler was Thai - going to Thailand - presenting a valid Thai passport - everything legal. A Thai can use an expired passport for travel to Thailand.

Thailand (TH)

Passport required.

- Nationals of Thailand are allowed to enter with expired

passports.

- Passport replacing documents issued to nationals of Thailand

must be valid on arrival.

Passport Exemptions:

- Holders of a Certificate of Identity issued to nationals of

Thailand.

- Holders of emergency or temporary passports.

VISA NOT REQUIRED.

http://www.staralliance.com/en/services/visa-and-health/

[samran]

As a note also, be very careful in the future on how you use dual citizenship. The passport you use to enter a country on can determine your present citizenship.

I knew a guy who also had duel citizenship with Canada and decide to go home to visit some family in the middle east. Since it was easier to enter using his old passport he went that way. But almost as soon as he got home he was drafted into the army and was not allowed to leave. This could been the same case of your son if he was 20 years old at the time when he came here.

Not sure how it all ended for him, but I am sure he did not get the holiday he expected.

And this has absolutely no relevance to the OP. Has already been explained clearly that the draft works differently here.

[Tomtomtom69]

On a slight point of digress, I think this is worth pointing out to readers.

I'm in exactly same situation as OP : spouse and child with both UK and Thai passports, and me with UK only.

For long stays, it's normal to enter and exit using their Thai passports. However, for short visits, spouse and child enter on UK passports. Therefore, technically, they're entering as foreigners.

The SOLE reason we do this is due to Travel Insurance. A normal UK policy will cover UK citizens for standard travel risks. So, I know that my whole family is covered by the policy. Should spouse and child enter as Thai citizens, then in the event of a claim, it can't be stated that the insured persons are all UK citizens.

I am a dual citizen and have never had to prove citizenship when making a claim. Residency is what matters. I have never read of any clause that states you can't obtain coverage for say Thailand if you entered on a Thai passport even though you are a British resident. Although I am not a Thai citizen myself, I can assure you that I would still be eligible for insurance coverage on a trip to Europe if I entered on my Swiss passport, because I am an Australia resident and the insurance policy would be taken out of Australia (I am also an Australian citizen but that's not really relevant). In Europe I must use my European passport to enter even though I never stay more than a few weeks these days.

In some countries it is illegal to attempt entry into those countries on a foreign passport if you are already a citizen of said country. The immigration authorities can force you to prove your local citizenship and even deny you entry if it can't be proved you possess local citizenship or are trying to flout the laws. Also, no visas can be issued in the foreign passports of citizens of those countries. For example Australia. If you are say a Thai/Australian or even USA/Australian dual citizen, you won't be allowed to obtain an Australian visa in your Thai passport or permission to enter in your US passport. You must use your Australian passport for entry/exit to/from Australia only.

[stevenl]

I thought Thailand, and most countries say you must have a passport valid for 6 months to eneter the country but I guess since they are Thai passports that rule does not apply

Also for foreign passports that is not an immigration requirement.

[Tomtomtom69]

I don't see why immigration made such a big deal about this. I could understand if your son entered on a UK Passport and now wanted to leave on a Thai Passport, as they would have a record of this. But on paper your son entered his own country on his Thai Passport. That should be the end of this as no records are kept on this, nor can he ever overstay.

I also don't understand why Immigration would not accept your sons expired passport to leave Thailand, since it is the one he came in on. It is not a requirement or law that a Thai hold a valid passport. Nor is it there role to insure you have a valid visa to the country you are going to. They will not refuse entry of any Thai whether his passport expired or not, so I do not understand why it does not apply here when leaving.

Thais do not need a passport to enter Laos. But they still need a Border Pass which cost about 50 Baht I think, and is good for 3 days. But to get that they probably also need some other form of Thai ID, which your son does not have. Unless they would accept an expired passport, which I do not know. I understand your reasoning in why you entered you son here on a Thai Passport for Visa savings. Also perhaps assuming you might be able to renew his Passport here. I would have thought you could also.

Here is a Link on how to travel using 2 Passports.

http://www.stylehiclub.com/cruising-flying/step-step-guide-to-traveling-with-two-passports/

You're wrong. Thais can't leave on an expired passport, because no country will accept them for entry, not even Laos. You're also wrong about border passes. They can only be used for overland entry, and only allow permission for the holder to remain within a short distance from the border. They certainly can't be used for international travel by air, for example from Bangkok to Vientiane.

Thai passports need to be valid for 6 months or more for entry just to Laos, even for only a day. Thai immigration will refuse exit to passport holders of documents valid for less than 6 months. I've seen it before. A Thai friend in my travelling party was denied exit for a trip to Vientiane at the Nong Khai border, because her passport was only valid for another 5.5 months. This after driving all night from Bangkok. However, the good news was that we were able to get her a border pass for 120 Baht (not 50), which took an hour. Since the furthest we went was into Vientiane prefecture and stayed overnight in Vientiane town, only for 2 days and 1 night, it was fine. It wouldn't have worked though if we had planned to drive up to say Luang Prabang or wanted to stay longer than 3 days and 2 nights. Everyone else in my travelling party was in possession of a valid passport, just not that girl.

On another occasion, a Vietnamese friend of mine was denied exit from Lao Bao to Daensavanh on the Vietnam-Laos border because his Vietnamese passport had only 4.5 months of validity remaining. There was no way he was entering Laos that day. So the whole drive into Laos and then back into Vietnam for Hanoi had to be re-routed via Vietnamese territory.

My mom (who is a dual citizen) used her Swiss passport with like 4 months validity at check-in for her flight to Vientiane. She was told she might have problems entering Laos since the validity was below 6 months but presented her Aussie passport to the check-in clerk which was fine. However, upon arrival at Vientiane airport, the officials assured her she wouldn't need a visa and stamped her Swiss passport anyway, thus saving US$30 on the visa fee. I don't think this would have worked at a land border though. Similar story on the way back, but she ended up re-entering Thailand on her Aussie passport but at the check-in counter at Vientiane airport the clerk was worried there might be problems with Thai immigration (although I was under the impression Thai immigration does not require 6 months only a passport long enough for the proposed period of stay). Again, she presented both passports and all was fine.

These days if I'm ever on a trip anywhere I make sure that all travellers in my party have a valid passport before leaving as it's just too much hassle otherwise.

My experiences are all from the perspectives of foreigners entering Laos, even citizens of neighboring countries are treated the same way as everyone else. A local however, CAN enter their own country on an expired passport (although sometimes there are limitations on how long ago it expired, for example up to 2 years) but CAN'T leave their own country on a passport which doesn't have a minimum of 6 or more months of validity remaining.

So it was not a mistake for the OP's son to be denied exit due to holding an expired, or close to expired passport, particularly as a Thai citizen he was not under any obligation (from the perspective of Thai immigration) to leave Thailand and could not be admitted to another country on an expired or close to expired Thai passport. That was the rationale here.

Edited September 1, 2014 by Tomtomtom69

[Paul888]

Latest Status

Just been to the office for the House Registration. Fortunately my wife always carries birth certificates and marriage certificates with the passports. They wanted the marriage one - having seen the other post about having to travel back to home country to get it and bring it back, I am extremely pleased she takes these precautions!

Anyway we were first in the office. It is like a uk post office with counters and numbers with one person working and 3 others chatting to each other (unlike a UK Post Office they are actually eating food together off a desk!) - the other counters are empty. It filled up with 'customers' who are still sat there. My wife has been with the woman for over an hour - I got asked to sign a photocopy of my passport and my Mrs told me I could go and wait in the house - I was getting fed up and a bit annoyed at why it was talking so long.

The other customers who have waited for over an hour were just smiling and nodding and chatting quietly not seeming to care that other 'officers' were taking it easy and having a snack. By now in the UK someone would have lost it completely and asked if they were keeping the staff from their breakfast or other sarcastic remark.

My wife tells me that the woman is still saying 3 to 4 days and that the senior officer there (who is in another room at the back) has to sign the 'blue book'. My wife has a couple of envelopes - one with 250 baht and another with 500 baht - guess she knows the games.

Will write back with what happens when she gets out of that office.

This is just my opinion, but I think you should consider holding back on the criticism of the speed that the people working on your case are moving while they are still working on your case and also avoid openly talking about tea money as you do not know who will read this thread in which your case would be pretty easily identifiable. It sounds like you are on the way to solving the case and you don't need to make things more complicated than they need be.

[samran]

Latest Status

Just been to the office for the House Registration. Fortunately my wife always carries birth certificates and marriage certificates with the passports. They wanted the marriage one - having seen the other post about having to travel back to home country to get it and bring it back, I am extremely pleased she takes these precautions!

Anyway we were first in the office. It is like a uk post office with counters and numbers with one person working and 3 others chatting to each other (unlike a UK Post Office they are actually eating food together off a desk!) - the other counters are empty. It filled up with 'customers' who are still sat there. My wife has been with the woman for over an hour - I got asked to sign a photocopy of my passport and my Mrs told me I could go and wait in the house - I was getting fed up and a bit annoyed at why it was talking so long.

The other customers who have waited for over an hour were just smiling and nodding and chatting quietly not seeming to care that other 'officers' were taking it easy and having a snack. By now in the UK someone would have lost it completely and asked if they were keeping the staff from their breakfast or other sarcastic remark.

My wife tells me that the woman is still saying 3 to 4 days and that the senior officer there (who is in another room at the back) has to sign the 'blue book'. My wife has a couple of envelopes - one with 250 baht and another with 500 baht - guess she knows the games.

Will write back with what happens when she gets out of that office.

This is just my opinion, but I think you should consider holding back on the criticism of the speed that the people working on your case are moving while they are still working on your case and also avoid openly talking about tea money as you do not know who will read this thread in which your case would be pretty easily identifiable. It sounds like you are on the way to solving the case and you don't need to make things more complicated than they need be.

Indeed. 2 days or so is standard for this. So not sure how the cash helps. A big basket of fruits and other khanom at the end to say thanks might be appreciated.