Yingluck gets some respite in rice case

[webfact]

RICE-PLEDGING SCANDAL
Yingluck gets some respite in rice case
The Nation


Yingluck

Attorney General's Office sets up joint probe panel due to 'weak evidence'

BANGKOK: -- Former prime minister Yingluck Shinawatra, who faces serious charges of dereliction of duty, was yesterday given a respite - almost a month - after the Office of the Attorney-General decided to work with the National Anti-Corruption Commission to probe more into her government's allegedly corruption-ridden rice-pledging scheme.

Public prosecutors cited "weak evidence" in calling for the joint panel to be set up within 14 days and for it to spend up to 14 days probing into her case.

Yingluck's lawyer Norawich Lalang welcomed the decision to set up the joint committee and expressed willingness to cooperate fully in further testimony.

He said he believed in the innocence of Yingluck and her ousted government in overseeing and implementing the pledging scheme for rice farmers.

Yingluck had accused the NACC of unusual haste in investigating and drawing a conclusion regarding her case.

Wanchai Rujanawong, spokesman for the attorney-general's office, said the joint investigation was aimed at strengthening the case against her and plugging all the loopholes so that it would be "perfect" before public prosecutors made the case against her at the Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Political Office Holders.

Wanchai said he decided to conduct further investigations because he did not want to see the case rejected by the court.

"The NACC dossier just stated that corruption took place at every stage, without giving details, such as where, when, how, and who. Also, they failed to explain how the accused was involved.

"If the case is to be taken to the court, we need to gather more 'complete' evidence. Now it's insufficient," he said.

The NACC on August 5 submitted its investigation report to state attorneys with the recommendation to seek Yingluck's indictment by the Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Political Office Holders.

The attorneys agreed that the NACC should restart gathering evidence because the NACC file was based on a Thailand Research Development Institute report, using only a cover with no further details.

Because of the Yingluck government's fiasco with its flagship populist policy, the state ended up suffering the biggest loss of more than Bt500 billion in the two-and-a-half years since 2011, according to the TDRI's latest paper.

Wanchai insisted there was no outside pressure, as the prosecutors had followed the law and justice process. Whether there would be further examination of witnesses would depend on the joint committee.

The rice-pledging scheme was launched by the Yingluck administration in 2012. It ended early this year. For two years - from 2012-13 and 2013-14 main and second crops, about Bt870 billion was spent to purchase 44.1 million tonnes of paddy for the government's stocks.

This made the government the biggest rice stocks holder and trader. Now the government has about 18 million tonnes of milled rice in its warehouses. With such an enormous volume of rice for storage, the government had to rent more than 1,800 warehouses.

Thailand has also surrendered its crown as the largest rice exporter in the world, with shipments overseas plummeting to only 6.9 million tonnes last year from 10.6 million tonnes in the previous year, due to the high export price of Thai rice.

The pledging price had been set at double the market price at the time.

Timeline of ex-PM's case

February 18: The National Anti-Corruption Commission (NACC) finds grounds to press charges and initiate impeachment proceedings against then caretaker Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra for alleged negligence and dereliction of duty in the controversial rice-pledging scheme.

May 8: The NACC votes 7-0 to bring impeachment proceedings against former prime minister Yingluck over the rice-pledging scheme.

July 17: The NACC votes 7-0 to ask the Office of the Attorney-General (OAG) to prosecute Yingluck at the Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Political Office Holders on the charges.

August 5: The NACC submits the case file to the attorney-general.

August 6: Yingluck's lawyer asks the Office for 50 more witnesses to testify.

Yesterday: The OAG decides to set up a joint committee of public prosecutors and the NACC to conduct further investigations into the rice-pledging case against Yingluck.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Yingluck-gets-some-respite-in-rice-case-30242578.html


-- The Nation 2014-09-05

[waza]

Hmmm the numbers don't add up here.........."For two years - from 2012-13 and 2013-14 main and second crops, about Bt870 billion was spent to purchase 44.1 million tonnes of paddy for the government's stocks." OK

Then...."Now the government has about 18 million tonnes of milled rice in its warehouses." so they sold 46 million tons. But then...."Thailand has also surrendered its crown as the largest rice exporter in the world, with shipments overseas plummeting to only 6.9 million tonnes last year from 10.6 million tonnes in the previous year".

Hang on that's a discrepancy of 28 million tons??? Where did it go? Who was in charge? Who's idea was it?

Sounds like malfeasances to me.

Edited September 4, 2014 by waza

[Suriya4]

What rush? Mark case which happens 2 years before Yingluck's still in the drawer. Or is it in the cardboard? Never mind.

[whybother]

Hmmm the numbers don't add up here.........."For two years - from 2012-13 and 2013-14 main and second crops, about Bt870 billion was spent to purchase 44.1 million tonnes of paddy for the government's stocks." OK

Then...."Now the government has about 18 million tonnes of milled rice in its warehouses." so they sold 46 million tons. But then...."Thailand has also surrendered its crown as the largest rice exporter in the world, with shipments overseas plummeting to only 6.9 million tonnes last year from 10.6 million tonnes in the previous year".

Hang on that's a discrepancy of 28 million tons??? Where did it go? Who was in charge? Who's idea was it?

Sounds like malfeasances to me. pb-110629-shinawatra-03_photoblog900.jpg

Was it possible, just maybe, that some rice (probably a lot) was sold locally?

[Neeranam]

It's not her fault as she was highly unqualified for the job in the first place. Her square-headed brother should be arrested and charged,

[halloween]

I have to wonder if the AG is concerned about his personal well-being. Opposing the Shinawatra's can be damaging to your health, actually prosecuting and jailing one could prove fatal.

[ratcatcher]

Yingluck gets some respite.

rest, break, interval, intermission, recess, lull, pause, time out.

A lull before the storm? Half time?

More bad weather ahead it would seem.

[chainarong]

The relevant Ministers and the shadowy characters in the background need to be investigated for this scheme and determine just what calculous did they use to come to such a disastrous conclusion, if any charges arising from this sham arise and should any be absent from Thailand they should be tried in absentia, this episode brought Thailand trade reputation into disrepute , the damage it has caused is un- calculated in monetary terms.

[aussieinthailand]

So these guy's shout and scream foul and now it's time to put up or shut up,, eerrr sorry your judge, but we need to "plug" the "loopholes" hehehehe,,,

think that's Thai code for manufacture evidence, or retro legislation so as to produce evidence,

Tell me why is it Y/L is having her day in court, but Uncle Suthep since (1995) has conveniently slipped by his day in court for the land deals, palm oil deal's, so and so forth,

like some who actually care about fair and equal treatment under the law remember this little chestnut... C'MON all you Suthep lovers,,, why when this is brought up you all go quiet, P*SS WEAK...

[Plutojames88]

Given her perceived innocence and credible moral stance internationally, it would bring heavy woes on Thailand whose reputation already is in tatters .....we're she jailed.

I agree it's likely the woman was out of her depth.

But a junta run country jailing a woman while dismissing all charges of murder on democrat leaders might be too much for the world to tolerate.

Things have settled down .

Tourists slowly returning .

Jailing her would create an international back lash that would see countries urge citizens to boycott the place.

But being Thailand it would not surprise me if they stupidly went right ahead and plunged the country into more civil strife .

It's obvious judicial coups and military ones are the stuff of power plays .

But jailing a popular woman who seems a very moral gentle person would reduce the Thais to vile and corrupt and this kangaroo court a mere arm of it.

[whybother]

Given her perceived innocence and credible moral stance internationally, it would bring heavy woes on Thailand whose reputation already is in tatters .....we're she jailed.

I agree it's likely the woman was out of her depth.

But a junta run country jailing a woman while dismissing all charges of murder on democrat leaders might be too much for the world to tolerate.

Things have settled down .

Tourists slowly returning .

Jailing her would create an international back lash that would see countries urge citizens to boycott the place.

But being Thailand it would not surprise me if they stupidly went right ahead and plunged the country into more civil strife .

It's obvious judicial coups and military ones are the stuff of power plays .

But jailing a popular woman who seems a very moral gentle person would reduce the Thais to vile and corrupt and this kangaroo court a mere arm of it.

Comparing Apple's and oranges works well, doesn't it.

Yingluck was probably just "tolerated" internationally. Its not like other leaders didn't know she was way out of her depth.

As for the murder charges, most people understand that they shouldn't have been charged as civilians.

[Keesters]

There should be at least 1 Shinawatra behind bars. Which one I don't care, they're all guilty of something.

[halloween]

Given her perceived innocence and credible moral stance internationally, it would bring heavy woes on Thailand whose reputation already is in tatters .....we're she jailed.

I agree it's likely the woman was out of her depth.

But a junta run country jailing a woman while dismissing all charges of murder on democrat leaders might be too much for the world to tolerate.

Things have settled down .

Tourists slowly returning .

Jailing her would create an international back lash that would see countries urge citizens to boycott the place.

But being Thailand it would not surprise me if they stupidly went right ahead and plunged the country into more civil strife .

It's obvious judicial coups and military ones are the stuff of power plays .

But jailing a popular woman who seems a very moral gentle person would reduce the Thais to vile and corrupt and this kangaroo court a mere arm of it.

So the way to avoid prosecution is to fake up some charges on somebody else? Because prosecuting the real case will fail some 'fairness test' , and other countries will urge tourists not to come? Really?

But you got one thing right. should she be jailed, Thaksin will have his propagandists working overtime disseminating lies and fomenting unrest.

[The stuttering parrot]

She should be jailed?

Can anyone tell me what crime she has been convicted of and when did this happen?

Deals will be done she will remain free and don't be surprised when General decides to call for an election after his reforms that she will run again and win.i think the general understands her popularity and will allow her to return to power under much stricter guidelines for politicians .

Don't forget that Thaksin won by the greatest margin in thai history and Yinglucks was the second greatest.

She went overseas and all the yellows jumped on board saying she would never return.Well she did and is ready to face her accusers.

She will avoid a conviction and remain as popular with the people as she ever was!

[whybother]

She should be jailed?

Can anyone tell me what crime she has been convicted of and when did this happen?

Deals will be done she will remain free and don't be surprised when General decides to call for an election after his reforms that she will run again and win.i think the general understands her popularity and will allow her to return to power under much stricter guidelines for politicians .

Don't forget that Thaksin won by the greatest margin in thai history and Yinglucks was the second greatest.

She went overseas and all the yellows jumped on board saying she would never return.Well she did and is ready to face her accusers.

She will avoid a conviction and remain as popular with the people as she ever was!

"remain as popular with the people as she ever was!"

... for all the 3 years of her long political life.

[SOTIRIOS]

.....this does not sound right...

...the preliminary findings of irregularities....by the woman who was later 'attacked'.....date back 1 year or more....???

...they have location after location....with names of warehouse and storage facility heads......

...this sounds almost like an 'about-face'.....

[jayboy]

Given her perceived innocence and credible moral stance internationally, it would bring heavy woes on Thailand whose reputation already is in tatters .....we're she jailed.

I agree it's likely the woman was out of her depth.

But a junta run country jailing a woman while dismissing all charges of murder on democrat leaders might be too much for the world to tolerate.

Things have settled down .

Tourists slowly returning .

Jailing her would create an international back lash that would see countries urge citizens to boycott the place.

But being Thailand it would not surprise me if they stupidly went right ahead and plunged the country into more civil strife .

It's obvious judicial coups and military ones are the stuff of power plays .

But jailing a popular woman who seems a very moral gentle person would reduce the Thais to vile and corrupt and this kangaroo court a mere arm of it.

Comparing Apple's and oranges works well, doesn't it.

Yingluck was probably just "tolerated" internationally. Its not like other leaders didn't know she was way out of her depth.

As for the murder charges, most people understand that they shouldn't have been charged as civilians.

No, your prejudice has led you astray as usual.Plutojames88 makes a very fair comment though I would put a slightly different spin to it.

A few points then.

1.It is true she had no experience of office.But being a leader is about much more than bureaucratic capability, and in some areas she ranked quite high.The people of Thailand voted her into office as the usual suspects usually forget to mention. (Spare me the parliamentaty democracy lecture.I know much more about that subject than you do)

2.The international community accept whoever is PM of Thailand.Yingluck made a very good impression internationally but in some ways so did Abhisit before he became tainted.Samak,Somchai,Chuan etc much less so.Internationally leaders deal with other leaders who are frankly often idiots, monsters and madmen.Yingluck is a perfect competent Sino Thai businesswoman with cosiderably more charm and affability than is usually associated with her type.She easily held up with foreign leaders.

3.It certainly would have seemed odd to have let Abhisit off his serious charges while penalising Yingluck for charges yet to be proved.I agree the two matters are not linked but perception is important.Anyway she hasn't been let off.(see the excellent exchange between Arkadt anmd Caterwell(sp?) in another thread.What a relief incidentally to see posts from people who actually know what they are talking about).In the exchanges between other international leaders there is absolutely no perception she was out of her depth.

4.There is or rather there was a hatefest about Yingluck, especially among the Bangkok middle class.Clearly some impressionable or weak minded foreigners have picked up on this.Obviously she only came to power in an odd set of circumstances.She's history now but she was a decent person.Good luck to her.

5.I'm guessing the Junta have no wish to rough up Yingluck if she plays ball.There's definitely a PR angle here.On the other hand there's an element in the elite which wishes to exterminate all Shin influence - so who really knows?

[jaidam]

She should be jailed?

Can anyone tell me what crime she has been convicted of and when did this happen?

Deals will be done she will remain free and don't be surprised when General decides to call for an election after his reforms that she will run again and win.i think the general understands her popularity and will allow her to return to power under much stricter guidelines for politicians .

Don't forget that Thaksin won by the greatest margin in thai history and Yinglucks was the second greatest.

She went overseas and all the yellows jumped on board saying she would never return.Well she did and is ready to face her accusers.

She will avoid a conviction and remain as popular with the people as she ever was!

"remain as popular with the people as she ever was!"

... for all the 3 years of her long political life.

LOL, such an efficient coup de grace.

[whybother]

Given her perceived innocence and credible moral stance internationally, it would bring heavy woes on Thailand whose reputation already is in tatters .....we're she jailed.

I agree it's likely the woman was out of her depth.

But a junta run country jailing a woman while dismissing all charges of murder on democrat leaders might be too much for the world to tolerate.

Things have settled down .

Tourists slowly returning .

Jailing her would create an international back lash that would see countries urge citizens to boycott the place.

But being Thailand it would not surprise me if they stupidly went right ahead and plunged the country into more civil strife .

It's obvious judicial coups and military ones are the stuff of power plays .

But jailing a popular woman who seems a very moral gentle person would reduce the Thais to vile and corrupt and this kangaroo court a mere arm of it.

Comparing Apple's and oranges works well, doesn't it.

Yingluck was probably just "tolerated" internationally. Its not like other leaders didn't know she was way out of her depth.

As for the murder charges, most people understand that they shouldn't have been charged as civilians.

No, your prejudice has led you astray as usual.Plutojames88 makes a very fair comment though I would put a slightly different spin to it.

A few points then.

1.It is true she had no experience of office.But being a leader is about much more than bureaucratic capability, and in some areas she ranked quite high.The people of Thailand voted her into office as the usual suspects usually forget to mention. (Spare me the parliamentaty democracy lecture.I know much more about that subject than you do)

2.The international community accept whoever is PM of Thailand.Yingluck made a very good impression internationally but in some ways so did Abhisit before he became tainted.Samak,Somchai,Chuan etc much less so.Internationally leaders deal with other leaders who are frankly often idiots, monsters and madmen.Yingluck is a perfect competent Sino Thai businesswoman with cosiderably more charm and affability than is usually associated with her type.She easily held up with foreign leaders.

3.It certainly would have seemed odd to have let Abhisit off his serious charges while penalising Yingluck for charges yet to be proved.I agree the two matters are not linked but perception is important.Anyway she hasn't been let off.(see the excellent exchange between Arkadt anmd Caterwell(sp?) in another thread.What a relief incidentally to see posts from people who actually know what they are talking about).In the exchanges between other international leaders there is absolutely no perception she was out of her depth.

4.There is or rather there was a hatefest about Yingluck, especially among the Bangkok middle class.Clearly some impressionable or weak minded foreigners have picked up on this.Obviously she only came to power in an odd set of circumstances.She's history now but she was a decent person.Good luck to her.

5.I'm guessing the Junta have no wish to rough up Yingluck if she plays ball.There's definitely a PR angle here.On the other hand there's an element in the elite which wishes to exterminate all Shin influence - so who really knows?

"I would put a slightly different spin to it."

Yes. You always put a spin to it. I'm surprised you don't fall over from dizziness.

"It certainly would have seemed odd to have let Abhisit off his serious charges while penalising Yingluck for charges yet to be proved. ... Anyway she hasn't been let off."

Some serious spin there. Abhisit's "serious charges" are also yet to be proved, and he hasn't been let off.

"I agree the two matters are not linked but perception is important."

Perception is important to people who like to spin. People like to make them look connected because it helps with the "double standards" crap that they like to push.

"Clearly some impressionable or weak minded foreigners have picked up on this."

You really are a condescending *****, aren't you!

[siampolee]

The stuttering parrot post # 16.

SNIPPED QUOTE

Deals will be done she will remain free and don't be surprised when General decides to call for an election after his reforms that she will run again and win.i think the general understands her popularity and will allow her to return to power under much stricter guidelines for politicians .

The comment ''deals will be done'' is no doubt true, as opposed to being a future tense statement I am sure as are many others are too it is a past tense statement ''deals have been done.''

Plea bargaining situation,

If the best interests of Thailand and its peoples are at heart there has to be in fact will be ''creative solution's'' that may be unpalatable to society in various assorted fashions.One cannot please all the people at the same tine.

​The crux of the matter is succinctly described in the comment above which states that there is an understanding by the General that Yingluck may return to power but under stricter control for politicians.

This ''stricter control'' measure is the one that is disliked as the idea of reining in political power is odious to a section of current bunch of deposed political figures here and abroad.

Respite, plea bargaining?

Call it what one may however it is no different to any negotiation scenario around the world in its many guises ''give a little take a little'' then agreement is reached.

As an aside though I would think that the idea of Yingluck (or for that matter the P.T.P. in a different guise) returning to power or in truth Yingluck herself actually wanting to return to power is about as likely as running a succesful pork butchers shop in Mecca

Edited September 5, 2014 by siampolee

[Nickymaster]

She should be jailed?

Can anyone tell me what crime she has been convicted of and when did this happen?

Deals will be done she will remain free and don't be surprised when General decides to call for an election after his reforms that she will run again and win.i think the general understands her popularity and will allow her to return to power under much stricter guidelines for politicians .

Don't forget that Thaksin won by the greatest margin in thai history and Yinglucks was the second greatest.

She went overseas and all the yellows jumped on board saying she would never return.Well she did and is ready to face her accusers.

She will avoid a conviction and remain as popular with the people as she ever was!

We are now talking about negligence and corruption. NOT elections Parrot.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Nickymaster

[jayboy]

Given her perceived innocence and credible moral stance internationally, it would bring heavy woes on Thailand whose reputation already is in tatters .....we're she jailed.

I agree it's likely the woman was out of her depth.

But a junta run country jailing a woman while dismissing all charges of murder on democrat leaders might be too much for the world to tolerate.

Things have settled down .

Tourists slowly returning .

Jailing her would create an international back lash that would see countries urge citizens to boycott the place.

But being Thailand it would not surprise me if they stupidly went right ahead and plunged the country into more civil strife .

It's obvious judicial coups and military ones are the stuff of power plays .

But jailing a popular woman who seems a very moral gentle person would reduce the Thais to vile and corrupt and this kangaroo court a mere arm of it.

Comparing Apple's and oranges works well, doesn't it.

Yingluck was probably just "tolerated" internationally. Its not like other leaders didn't know she was way out of her depth.

As for the murder charges, most people understand that they shouldn't have been charged as civilians.

No, your prejudice has led you astray as usual.Plutojames88 makes a very fair comment though I would put a slightly different spin to it.

A few points then.

1.It is true she had no experience of office.But being a leader is about much more than bureaucratic capability, and in some areas she ranked quite high.The people of Thailand voted her into office as the usual suspects usually forget to mention. (Spare me the parliamentaty democracy lecture.I know much more about that subject than you do)

2.The international community accept whoever is PM of Thailand.Yingluck made a very good impression internationally but in some ways so did Abhisit before he became tainted.Samak,Somchai,Chuan etc much less so.Internationally leaders deal with other leaders who are frankly often idiots, monsters and madmen.Yingluck is a perfect competent Sino Thai businesswoman with cosiderably more charm and affability than is usually associated with her type.She easily held up with foreign leaders.

3.It certainly would have seemed odd to have let Abhisit off his serious charges while penalising Yingluck for charges yet to be proved.I agree the two matters are not linked but perception is important.Anyway she hasn't been let off.(see the excellent exchange between Arkadt anmd Caterwell(sp?) in another thread.What a relief incidentally to see posts from people who actually know what they are talking about).In the exchanges between other international leaders there is absolutely no perception she was out of her depth.

4.There is or rather there was a hatefest about Yingluck, especially among the Bangkok middle class.Clearly some impressionable or weak minded foreigners have picked up on this.Obviously she only came to power in an odd set of circumstances.She's history now but she was a decent person.Good luck to her.

5.I'm guessing the Junta have no wish to rough up Yingluck if she plays ball.There's definitely a PR angle here.On the other hand there's an element in the elite which wishes to exterminate all Shin influence - so who really knows?

"I would put a slightly different spin to it."

Yes. You always put a spin to it. I'm surprised you don't fall over from dizziness.

"It certainly would have seemed odd to have let Abhisit off his serious charges while penalising Yingluck for charges yet to be proved. ... Anyway she hasn't been let off."

Some serious spin there. Abhisit's "serious charges" are also yet to be proved, and he hasn't been let off.

"I agree the two matters are not linked but perception is important."

Perception is important to people who like to spin. People like to make them look connected because it helps with the "double standards" crap that they like to push.

"Clearly some impressionable or weak minded foreigners have picked up on this."

You really are a condescending *****, aren't you!

There is always an element of subjectivity when opinions are expressed.That is part and parcel of a forum like this, but sometimes some inconvenient realities are beyond denial.

Clearly you are uncomfortable with some of these home truths being expressed, hence your rattled and crude response.

[clifric]

Waza - 44.1 million minus 18 million is 26.1 million not 46 million! Still leaves a discrepancy but not as high as you suggest. Maybe that's where all the holes in the stocks filled in with scaffolding came from? Also there was a suggestion that some of the rice had been recycled i.e. sold twice to the government.

I reckon Yingluck's biggest deficiency was believing her ministers who assured her all was well and not instigating a proper investigatino into the allegations.

[Eric Loh]

The NACC members are from the legislative and judiciary branch and yet they concluded the investigation 7-0 without sufficient evidence. Speak volume of their agenda to rush as Yingluck lawyers have complained. The OAG stated the case lack details and weak. There really now a strong hint of prejudice especially when the NACC members include Panadda Diskul and Ms Supa who have been very vocal and have their reputation on the line. Even the NACC selection commitee that has House speaker Somsak and Ahbisit are a big question mark of the credibility of the agency. The NACC needs a major reform to right its image as a tool of the establishment.

[oldsailor35]

In my opinion, both Abisit and Yingluck are honourable persons. Unfortunately for both they were both too trusting and were probably used by those around them, especially in the case of Abisit an honest and educated man but a weak leader who was well within the grasp of that corrupt, wiley old criminal Suthep a man who was involved in not only Palm oil scams, but actually stole government land which was reserved for poor Thai farmers and gave it to rich family friends, when he was about to be indicted for this, he resigned from the Agricultural ministry just to avoid legal incrimination. He was also known to have been involved in land enroachment on Koh Samui, but appears to have got away with all this. It was he who ordered the army to use live ammunition, not Abisit. It must be obvious to all that Suthep has not gone into the monkhood for anything other than self preservation. When the statute of limitations for whatever he is hiding from, have passed, he will come out and once again be "The Mouth from the South"

[pookiki]

The strangest thing I find that disclosed in this article is the following:

"The attorneys agreed that the NACC should restart gathering evidence because the NACC file was based on a Thailand Research Development Institute report, using only a cover with no further details."

If I am to read this correctly, it means that the NACC didn't do any original investigation into this matter! <deleted> is going on? If this is the case, the members of the NACC should be prosecuted for malfeasance.

And the charges against Abhisit and Suthep were dismissed because the agency involved didn't even know which court had proper jurisdiction on the matter?? And it took three years for the court to reach this conclusion. It should have been a matter of days on a jurisdictional issue.

It's more than ironic that those charged with protecting the people from malfeasance and corruption can't do adequate investigations or know the proper courts and jurisdictions to handle their complaints.

[Baerboxer]

Given her perceived innocence and credible moral stance internationally, it would bring heavy woes on Thailand whose reputation already is in tatters .....we're she jailed.

I agree it's likely the woman was out of her depth.

But a junta run country jailing a woman while dismissing all charges of murder on democrat leaders might be too much for the world to tolerate.

Things have settled down .

Tourists slowly returning .

Jailing her would create an international back lash that would see countries urge citizens to boycott the place.

But being Thailand it would not surprise me if they stupidly went right ahead and plunged the country into more civil strife .

It's obvious judicial coups and military ones are the stuff of power plays .

But jailing a popular woman who seems a very moral gentle person would reduce the Thais to vile and corrupt and this kangaroo court a mere arm of it.

Comparing Apple's and oranges works well, doesn't it.

Yingluck was probably just "tolerated" internationally. Its not like other leaders didn't know she was way out of her depth.

As for the murder charges, most people understand that they shouldn't have been charged as civilians.

No, your prejudice has led you astray as usual.Plutojames88 makes a very fair comment though I would put a slightly different spin to it.

A few points then.

1.It is true she had no experience of office.But being a leader is about much more than bureaucratic capability, and in some areas she ranked quite high.The people of Thailand voted her into office as the usual suspects usually forget to mention. (Spare me the parliamentaty democracy lecture.I know much more about that subject than you do)

2.The international community accept whoever is PM of Thailand.Yingluck made a very good impression internationally but in some ways so did Abhisit before he became tainted.Samak,Somchai,Chuan etc much less so.Internationally leaders deal with other leaders who are frankly often idiots, monsters and madmen.Yingluck is a perfect competent Sino Thai businesswoman with cosiderably more charm and affability than is usually associated with her type.She easily held up with foreign leaders.

3.It certainly would have seemed odd to have let Abhisit off his serious charges while penalising Yingluck for charges yet to be proved.I agree the two matters are not linked but perception is important.Anyway she hasn't been let off.(see the excellent exchange between Arkadt anmd Caterwell(sp?) in another thread.What a relief incidentally to see posts from people who actually know what they are talking about).In the exchanges between other international leaders there is absolutely no perception she was out of her depth.

4.There is or rather there was a hatefest about Yingluck, especially among the Bangkok middle class.Clearly some impressionable or weak minded foreigners have picked up on this.Obviously she only came to power in an odd set of circumstances.She's history now but she was a decent person.Good luck to her.

5.I'm guessing the Junta have no wish to rough up Yingluck if she plays ball.There's definitely a PR angle here.On the other hand there's an element in the elite which wishes to exterminate all Shin influence - so who really knows?

Brilliant satire, only spoiled by the slightly condescending comments and the usual pretense at purporting to be an intellectual with connections to international leaders.

Go on then, tell, what are the qualifications that make you such an expert on parliamentary democracy? And, where exactly, did you get all that inside information you try to present as fact about the perceptions and views of international leaders?

Of course, no bias or prejudice from you regarding Thailand's first PM elected as number 1 on the party list with the largest minority vote following a brilliant career working for her brother.

A decent person - have you asked any of the bereaved relatives of the farmers driven to suicide by her constant lies about paying them? Or those murdered by her supporters? Or do you think she was above all that and never realized what was going on?

Edited September 5, 2014 by Baerboxer

[billd766]

Given her perceived innocence and credible moral stance internationally, it would bring heavy woes on Thailand whose reputation already is in tatters .....we're she jailed.

I agree it's likely the woman was out of her depth.

But a junta run country jailing a woman while dismissing all charges of murder on democrat leaders might be too much for the world to tolerate.

Things have settled down .

Tourists slowly returning .

Jailing her would create an international back lash that would see countries urge citizens to boycott the place.

But being Thailand it would not surprise me if they stupidly went right ahead and plunged the country into more civil strife .

It's obvious judicial coups and military ones are the stuff of power plays .

But jailing a popular woman who seems a very moral gentle person would reduce the Thais to vile and corrupt and this kangaroo court a mere arm of it.

Comparing Apple's and oranges works well, doesn't it.

Yingluck was probably just "tolerated" internationally. Its not like other leaders didn't know she was way out of her depth.

As for the murder charges, most people understand that they shouldn't have been charged as civilians.

No, your prejudice has led you astray as usual.Plutojames88 makes a very fair comment though I would put a slightly different spin to it.

A few points then.

1.It is true she had no experience of office.But being a leader is about much more than bureaucratic capability, and in some areas she ranked quite high.The people of Thailand voted her into office as the usual suspects usually forget to mention. (Spare me the parliamentaty democracy lecture.I know much more about that subject than you do)

2.The international community accept whoever is PM of Thailand.Yingluck made a very good impression internationally but in some ways so did Abhisit before he became tainted.Samak,Somchai,Chuan etc much less so.Internationally leaders deal with other leaders who are frankly often idiots, monsters and madmen.Yingluck is a perfect competent Sino Thai businesswoman with cosiderably more charm and affability than is usually associated with her type.She easily held up with foreign leaders.

3.It certainly would have seemed odd to have let Abhisit off his serious charges while penalising Yingluck for charges yet to be proved.I agree the two matters are not linked but perception is important.Anyway she hasn't been let off.(see the excellent exchange between Arkadt anmd Caterwell(sp?) in another thread.What a relief incidentally to see posts from people who actually know what they are talking about).In the exchanges between other international leaders there is absolutely no perception she was out of her depth.

4.There is or rather there was a hatefest about Yingluck, especially among the Bangkok middle class.Clearly some impressionable or weak minded foreigners have picked up on this.Obviously she only came to power in an odd set of circumstances.She's history now but she was a decent person.Good luck to her.

5.I'm guessing the Junta have no wish to rough up Yingluck if she plays ball.There's definitely a PR angle here.On the other hand there's an element in the elite which wishes to exterminate all Shin influence - so who really knows?

Your first point is not correct. To have been elected into office by the people of Thailand she would have had to stand as a constituency MP and win the majority of the vote in that election.

That she was selected as the #1 party list candidate and therefore was the first person elected IS correct. However to be selected as a prospective party list MP the publidc are NOT consulted and have NO say whatsoever in the decision as it is carried out by the party leadership of the concerned ONLY. Just the same as Abhisit is the #1 party list member for the Democrats.

The best way for the Thai people to have their say is to abolish the party list all together and redraw ALL the constituency boundaries using a percentage of the population as a guideline. For example if there are 66 million Thais then make the constituency size ofr 10 million people and you end up with 660 MPs.

[Baerboxer]

Given her perceived innocence and credible moral stance internationally, it would bring heavy woes on Thailand whose reputation already is in tatters .....we're she jailed.

I agree it's likely the woman was out of her depth.

But a junta run country jailing a woman while dismissing all charges of murder on democrat leaders might be too much for the world to tolerate.

Things have settled down .

Tourists slowly returning .

Jailing her would create an international back lash that would see countries urge citizens to boycott the place.

But being Thailand it would not surprise me if they stupidly went right ahead and plunged the country into more civil strife .

It's obvious judicial coups and military ones are the stuff of power plays .

But jailing a popular woman who seems a very moral gentle person would reduce the Thais to vile and corrupt and this kangaroo court a mere arm of it.

Comparing Apple's and oranges works well, doesn't it.

Yingluck was probably just "tolerated" internationally. Its not like other leaders didn't know she was way out of her depth.

As for the murder charges, most people understand that they shouldn't have been charged as civilians.

No, your prejudice has led you astray as usual.Plutojames88 makes a very fair comment though I would put a slightly different spin to it.

A few points then.

1.It is true she had no experience of office.But being a leader is about much more than bureaucratic capability, and in some areas she ranked quite high.The people of Thailand voted her into office as the usual suspects usually forget to mention. (Spare me the parliamentaty democracy lecture.I know much more about that subject than you do)

2.The international community accept whoever is PM of Thailand.Yingluck made a very good impression internationally but in some ways so did Abhisit before he became tainted.Samak,Somchai,Chuan etc much less so.Internationally leaders deal with other leaders who are frankly often idiots, monsters and madmen.Yingluck is a perfect competent Sino Thai businesswoman with cosiderably more charm and affability than is usually associated with her type.She easily held up with foreign leaders.

3.It certainly would have seemed odd to have let Abhisit off his serious charges while penalising Yingluck for charges yet to be proved.I agree the two matters are not linked but perception is important.Anyway she hasn't been let off.(see the excellent exchange between Arkadt anmd Caterwell(sp?) in another thread.What a relief incidentally to see posts from people who actually know what they are talking about).I exchanges between other international leaders there is absolutely no perception she was out of her depth.n the

4.There is or rather there was a hatefest about Yingluck, especially among the Bangkok middle class.Clearly some impressionable or weak minded foreigners have picked up on this.Obviously she only came to power in an odd set of circumstances.She's history now but she was a decent person.Good luck to her.

5.I'm guessing the Junta have no wish to rough up Yingluck if she plays ball.There's definitely a PR angle here.On the other hand there's an element in the elite which wishes to exterminate all Shin influence - so who really knows?

"Yingluck made a very good impression internationally; Yingluck is a perfect competent Sino Thai businesswoman; She easily held up with foreign leaders."

Any evidence to support your bold statements - or simply personal opinion, which you are perfectly entitled to. But not fact of course.

"In exchanges between other international leaders there is absolutely no perception she was out of her depth"

Can you provide links or details to which exchanges and between whom you are referring to? Was discussing Yingluck such a hot topic between international leaders? None of them seemed to offer her or her government any direct support, in words or deeds.

[Thai at Heart]

Hmmm the numbers don't add up here.........."For two years - from 2012-13 and 2013-14 main and second crops, about Bt870 billion was spent to purchase 44.1 million tonnes of paddy for the government's stocks." OK

Then...."Now the government has about 18 million tonnes of milled rice in its warehouses." so they sold 46 million tons. But then...."Thailand has also surrendered its crown as the largest rice exporter in the world, with shipments overseas plummeting to only 6.9 million tonnes last year from 10.6 million tonnes in the previous year".

Hang on that's a discrepancy of 28 million tons??? Where did it go? Who was in charge? Who's idea was it?

Sounds like malfeasances to me. pb-110629-shinawatra-03_photoblog900.jpg

Milling and moisture loss. Hope the prosecutors know this fact or this could be a very short case. Edited September 5, 2014 by Thai at Heart