Dogs in cages...What to do?

[Furryman]

Well all I can say is I have been raising and training dogs my whole life, I learned from my grandmother who was from the UK and was a breeder and trainer of champion Shelties, and one of the pioneers of bringing agility training and competition to the US. So I obviously have no real knowledge to base my opinion on :/

Properly done, crate training is, hands down, the best way to raise and train a dog, especially if you will be traveling with the dog much at all. That said, Improper crate training, can be one of the most inhumane ways to keep a dog.

Obviously someone who keeps a dog in a cage all day and then lets it roam the neighborhood all night is not properly caring for their dog. Leaving a dog to it's own devices for 8 or 10 hours a day even with room to roam is not good either.

Honestly very very few dogs in Thailand are properly cared for. Just last night I had to dodge countless dogs wandering the streets, escape 2 different packs of dogs chasing me on my motorbike, and sadly dodged one dead dog which had been killed on the road.

Even in the west, most dogs are improperly maintained and trained. They might get fed better, and they are not allowed to roam the streets, but even most western dogs are not really fit to be taken out in public, and most never are. People think all a dog needs is a yard to run in and food to eat and it will take care of it's self. This is not the case at all.

So I have to say that from what I see, these particular people seem to be making an effort to be better than their peers, and I'd say good for them. If I felt I needed to intervene at all, perhaps try to share some dog training information. There is lots of good stuff on youtube.

[Trujillo]

Maybe this fellow is crate training his puppies to be champion sleeping dogs.

[A1Str8]

Well they are clearly idiots. They obviously caged the dogs because they want to be caged too. Feel free to lock them into one. Paint it pink so they can't say you are cruel.

[Pii Kate]

Are you able or interested in talking to him about your love of dogs and how much you miss your many dogs at home, so could he let you walk his dogs every day? He will feel like he is doing you a favor, no loss of face and both you and the dogs have a good time. Maybe he can learn to be a better pet owner after you set a good example.

[jobin]

Did not read all comments. But perhaps you know that young calves are kept in very confining cages until ready for slaughter and eating. This to reduce muscle development and keep the flesh tender. Maybe the same with these dogs. Some ethnic groups prefer dog meat, even if you don't.

[Furryman]

Did not read all comments. But perhaps you know that young calves are kept in very confining cages until ready for slaughter and eating. This to reduce muscle development and keep the flesh tender. Maybe the same with these dogs. Some ethnic groups prefer dog meat, even if you don't.

Nice, you skipped the discussion and just jumped in to make a racist joke.

How civilized.

[Trujillo]

That's not racist; it's true. Some cultures eat dog as a matter of course (no pun intended, I assure you...). But fattening up a 15,000 baht puppy would have to have a very expensive palate waiting.

I am at home. I have no other in any other country. I have a dog, the same one I have had for the past seven years or so here. Unless this fellow has some special purpose for confining his animals for most of the day, every day, I just want to get the dogs some liberation.

[Thighlander]

but you seem to think it's ok for the dog to ride on the rail of a motor scooter?

Edited September 8, 2014 by Thighlander

[Asiantravel]

We raise huskie here in Thailand as well. They are mentally and physically active dogs that need a lot of attention. However, I do agree that the pictures seem to show cared-for dogs. Are you a dog person? Maybe this is a good excuse to meet the neighbors(translator in tow if necessary) and a chance to walk the huskies? We have a few locals that like to go biking with our dogs(more being dragged on a bike!).

And yes, dogs with proper pedigree and good bloodline can sell for quite a bit. A pedigree Huksky in Chiang Mai starts at about 15000THB

It might be worth noting that the cage with the younger one in it, the one I have never seen out of the cage (although I have seen the cage empty and the dog, apparently, in the house in the evening), has a lock on it and it is kept locked, even at some times when the owner is home. That would indicate that the owner fears that someone might steal the dog. I assume huskies are expensive to buy here and he might be paranoid. (Which begs the question: Why buy a pet so expensive that you are too afraid to do anything other than keep it in lockdown?)

One other thing I might add; what is the point of owning cool dogs (or any dog) and not enjoying the pleasures of having a dog as a pet? Dogs are companion animals, not zoo specimens. Would you cat-people be okay with keeping your cat in a cage just big enough to turn around in all day? Would you say you are getting the real and satisfying experience of owning a cat/dog?

" A pedigree Huksky in Chiang Mai starts at about 15000THB "

are you sure that is correct ? i have heard much higher figures than that ?

[CMSteve]

Yes, they can go quite a bit higher. Anybody looking for a pedigree husky?

We raise huskie here in Thailand as well. They are mentally and physically active dogs that need a lot of attention. However, I do agree that the pictures seem to show cared-for dogs. Are you a dog person? Maybe this is a good excuse to meet the neighbors(translator in tow if necessary) and a chance to walk the huskies? We have a few locals that like to go biking with our dogs(more being dragged on a bike!).

And yes, dogs with proper pedigree and good bloodline can sell for quite a bit. A pedigree Huksky in Chiang Mai starts at about 15000THB

It might be worth noting that the cage with the younger one in it, the one I have never seen out of the cage (although I have seen the cage empty and the dog, apparently, in the house in the evening), has a lock on it and it is kept locked, even at some times when the owner is home. That would indicate that the owner fears that someone might steal the dog. I assume huskies are expensive to buy here and he might be paranoid. (Which begs the question: Why buy a pet so expensive that you are too afraid to do anything other than keep it in lockdown?)

One other thing I might add; what is the point of owning cool dogs (or any dog) and not enjoying the pleasures of having a dog as a pet? Dogs are companion animals, not zoo specimens. Would you cat-people be okay with keeping your cat in a cage just big enough to turn around in all day? Would you say you are getting the real and satisfying experience of owning a cat/dog?

" A pedigree Huksky in Chiang Mai starts at about 15000THB "

are you sure that is correct ? i have heard much higher figures than that ?

[mania]

I know you mean well but IMHO this is one of those

times your best minding your own business.

There are literally hundreds of soi dogs in need of TLC if your so inclined.

This person is obviously caring for their animals & maybe not in a way that

is acceptable to you but it is theirs to decide.

No less than you checking on how they raise their kids & calling their attention to it.

Again I sympathize with your caring but really this is a line best not crossed IMHO

[DaamNaam]

Did not read all comments. But perhaps you know that young calves are kept in very confining cages until ready for slaughter and eating. This to reduce muscle development and keep the flesh tender. Maybe the same with these dogs. Some ethnic groups prefer dog meat, even if you don't.

Nice, you skipped the discussion and just jumped in to make a racist joke.

How civilized.

Racist? How.

There are ethic groups that eat dog, fact. Some folks in CM eat them too.

How on earth is that racist?

Thats called "reality".

[sfokevin]

I would like to know where one can buy those pretty pink cages so I can recommend to my neighbor down the street...

[ggt]

This is Thailand...were dogs are sold at market as meat...

Probably better if you mind your own business...you are not in Hong Kong and there is no law that keeps owners from caging their dogs...

If you really want to get involved...start buying dog food in bulk...ride down any soi and place some food where the unclaimed soi dogs live...

Good luck...

[daveAustin]

Better off banging your head against a brick wall. If you reported it to the right authority, it is likely they'd take one look and think they are well cared for, just like the many odd replies here. Owner likely thinks nothing of it; it is very common here, having zero empathy I mean. Previous neighbour used to keep a fully grown rottie in a cage that he couldn't turn around in and would never take it for a walk. Had a huge garden btw and plenty of money. What is the <deleted> point! Probably get slated for this, but unfortunately there is not enough brain activity to see the wrong being done.

[worgeordie]

Maybe the owner is mentally challenged,i mean having a pink house,

and matching cages,something is not right,maybe poodles would be

more suitable,then he could dye them a shocking pink too.

Back to reality,its defiantly not right that the dogs are not been exercised,

its going to create all kinds of mental and other health problems,regarding

bone formation in the future.

Over time you will see many things,you can see are wrong,and something

should be done about it,but trying to right the world is not easy,people can

get defensive and even aggressive,if you try to advise them ,what their

doing is wrong,life is not easy.

regards worgeordie

[Nienke]

I said, "Dogs are companion animals, not zoo specimens."

To which Nienke replied: "No they are not."

Domesticated dogs (I'm not talking about wild animals or street dogs) favor humans within their pack instinct, even if the pack (as it is now with me and my one dog) is only you and it. Unless of course I misread this reply and Nienke means, "No, they are not companion animals, they are zoo specimens."

Ooohhh blast! That came out a tad crippled. Result of a crappy internet connection and posting from my phone where I couldn't read the whole message at once.

What I meant to say was: yes, dogs are companion animals and should not be kept in small confinements for long periods of time. And neither should animals living in zoos. In fact, imho, no animal should be put on display for the sole pleasure of the human being. Loads of suffering going on there. Also among those who do get a good diet, regular vet checks, and have an in- and outdoors, because there is high over-exposure to humans (which, for wild animals, is extremely stressful. And that often on a daily basis) and a huge lack of sufficient space for their natural need for mental and physical stimulation.

Luckily for the animals there is a change going on as recently scientists have signed a declaration that animals do have a conscious awareness just like us:

http://earthweareone.com/scientists-sign-declaration-that-animals-have-conscious-awareness-just-like-humans/

The down-side is that it will take a while before people will change their behavior.

[greenchair]

Unfortunately many thai do keep their pets locked up with no exercise. However as far as I know it is not illegal. what is highly illegal is posting pictures of people's home or person, accusing them of a crime that they have not been charged for and damaging their reputation. You have no right to be taking pictures of your neighbor as you are not a police man. you should report your concerns to the police and if there is a crime they will investigate. your post is illegal and you should remove it.

[cloghead]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Qkuu0Lwb5EM#t=9

Edited September 9, 2014 by cloghead

[Bill97]

Unfortunately many thai do keep their pets locked up with no exercise. However as far as I know it is not illegal. what is highly illegal is posting pictures of people's home or person, accusing them of a crime that they have not been charged for and damaging their reputation. You have no right to be taking pictures of your neighbor as you are not a police man. you should report your concerns to the police and if there is a crime they will investigate. your post is illegal and you should remove it.

Right, the OP's behavior is the issue and have to wonder how many of the readers would welcome him/her meddling in their lives in a similar manner.

For all anyone knows the dogs may be recovering for medical treatment and in fact being properly cared for.

[Borzandy]

Want you change Thais

[Trujillo]

"I know you mean well but IMHO this is one of those times your best minding your own business." -- Mania

Waited for this one too. I am not interfering, just inquiring about how to give this fellow some information.

"No less than you checking on how they raise their kids & calling their attention to it." -- Mania

This is done all the time in developed countries. I believe it's called something like Child Protective Services.

I took a photo from a public thoroughfare, which is legal. I never alleged that any crime was committed. You don't need to be a policeman to take photos from public places. What is most troubling about posts 49 and 50 is the blatant misinformation proffered as fact to which some people, who do not take the time to read all 50 posts, will believe prima facie. And besides the fact these are misdirection and off-topic.

Edited September 9, 2014 by Trujillo

[Keesters]

Not an excuse but taking a dog for a walk in urban Thailand is a harrowing experience. I've been doing it almost every day for years. It takes months sometimes never before the "pet dogs on the loose" leave you alone and allow you to pass, unhindered, what they consider their property. I don't get too much trouble from the pure strays, it's the owned dogs that are allowed by the owners (but not allowed by Pattaya City law) to roam free on the street. There's even been a few cases of dogs running out and trying to cross the road to harass me and my leashed Labrador who don't make it and get run over. A number of them have been clonked with the large walking stick I carry with me. I've dropped shopping and smashed eggs in protecting myself and my beautiful dog from being attacked. I should add that my dog never raises her head, never drops the Frisbee she carries in her mouth or makes any acknowledgement that there is even another dog around.

There has yet to be any human injuries caused by my daily exercise. But I'm sure that day will come when one of these untethered dogs cause a road accident with human injuries.

I think that the OP huskies should at least daytime be let out of their cages. They should only be caged when attendance by the owner is not possible, e.g. he/shes out shopping or asleep.

P.S. I don't think that even birds should be caged unless it is VERY large. They too need to exercise their limbs/wings.

Edited September 9, 2014 by Keesters

[mania]

"I know you mean well but IMHO this is one of those times your best minding your own business." -- Mania

Waited for this one too. I am not interfering, just inquiring about how to give this fellow some information.

"No less than you checking on how they raise their kids & calling their attention to it." -- Mania

This is done all the time in developed countries. I believe it's called something like Child Protective Services.

I took a photo from a public thoroughfare, which is legal. I never alleged that any crime was committed. You don't need to be a policeman to take photos from public places. What is most troubling about posts 49 and 50 is the blatant misinformation proffered as fact to which some people, who do not take the time to read all 50 posts, will believe prima facie. And besides the fact these are misdirection and off-topic.

Up too you as they say

You posted on a forum what appeared to be a question asking for opinions that was mine

I note you often compare the situation & laws to other countries.

The often used term TIT does not come without reason.

As others have suggested there is no shortage of poorly treated animals & humans

begging to be helped

I am sure if your concern is real it can be satisfied without intrusion

Good Luck

PS: You quoted me then answered anothers post about your photos.

I did not mention your photos.

But since you did ... I am glad you think you know the laws here.

But what you address is your photo taking & not what a Thai citizen may claim as defamation by your words.

Edited September 9, 2014 by mania

[Trujillo]

I find it interesting that some say something to the effect: "Yeah, maybe you have a point about caged dogs, but there are lots of caged dogs and strays and you are wasting your time."

If you see something that you believe to be behavior that you reasonably believe is bad form, do you not think it worthwhile to address it, regardless of how overwhelming the odds of change might be?

We've all seen the videos or have seen first hand the mistreatment of dogs in countries where dogs are sold as food. In spite of the fact that it's done all the time in many places we still speak out, even knowing that perhaps nothing might be done. Do you not think it is worthwhile to at least try to make difference?

Almost all Thais litter routinely; look around you and see the rubbish. Is it wrong to try, even on the scale of one person, to make a difference and try to educate even one person that littering is wrong? Isn't this the way to improve the human condition? Shrug your shoulders and just think, "Well, the issue is too ingrained in the masses. No point even trying to make things better"?

I don't believe that. If I can change one mind to a better way as defined by the civilized world, it's worth trying.

Maybe the dog owner has some specific reason to keep his animals in cages all day long. It could be possible but seems unlikely in this case. I asked if there was any professional organization that could drop by for a chat -- nothing more. If he says he's doing some sort of training and it's a temporary situation, fine. But if he says this is the way a friend of his told him dogs ought to be kept, well, I believe further education is needed. And I think most of the modern world would agree.

[mania]

I asked if there was any professional organization that could drop by for a chat -- nothing more. If he says he's doing some sort of training and it's a temporary situation, fine.

You could be the poster child for why fences make good neighbors

You know you say things like

"I am not interfering, just inquiring about how to give this fellow some information."

Yet what is this fellows name? You do not know do you?

You have never so much as asked how he is today this neighbor of yours... yes?

Yet your first meeting will be to instruct him on animal care?

Or worse your fist meeting will be after you send some agency.... if one exists... to ascertain whether or not he

has a reason for keeping his pets the way he does.

Your like a falang blow torch in a tinder box

Edited September 9, 2014 by mania

[Trujillo]

Would you be singing a different tune if this were a child?

What level makes you feel uncomfortable? If he was cooking one of the dogs in the courtyard, would you think, "I certainly don't want my first meeting to be instructing him on animal care. Or worse after you send some agency.... if one exists... to ascertain whether or not he has a reason for cooking his pets the way he does."

[Totster]

I am not interfering, just inquiring about how to give this fellow some information.

Sorry, but you are interfering! What gives you the right to 'give this fellow some information'?

Would you be singing a different tune if this were a child?

But it's not a child, so don't be silly.

totster

[Dante99]

Would you be singing a different tune if this were a child?

What level makes you feel uncomfortable? If he was cooking one of the dogs in the courtyard, would you think, "I certainly don't want my first meeting to be instructing him on animal care. Or worse after you send some agency.... if one exists... to ascertain whether or not he has a reason for cooking his pets the way he does."

Oh lord yes.

The level that makes me feel uncomfortable is people who do not have the courage, ability or courtesy to speak with their neighbors and instead want somebody official to do it for them, specially when those people are presumptuous, intrusive, nosey and invade other's privacy.

[Trujillo]

You didn't read my previous post, apparently.

If you see me beating the living out of my dog, every day, what gives you the right to "give me some information"?

You should just shrug and say, "Not my business." Is that how it works for you?

I mean, that's fine. Lots of people do this.

It seems to be the hijacking of this thread now revolves around if the issue of keeping a dog in a cage all the time rises to the level of animal cruelty or not and whether people ought to give a .

I don't know about you, but I guess if you ask 100 people from Western counties, "Is it acceptable to keep a dog in a cage barely large enough to turn around in for nearly all day?" most would say this is wrong and inhumane.

As I said before, what level of treatment starts to resonate negatively with you?

Edited September 9, 2014 by Trujillo