Have I been scammed?

[bazza40]

I bought a secondhand Toyota Vios, 2006 with 80,000 km on the odometer. Decided to get everything mechanical brought to as-new condition after inspection by an agent, which indicated items such as weeping rear shockers, brake linings at 50%, belts etc. etc. Change oil, transmission fluid and brake fluid.

The work was not done at the agent's service shop. I wanted genuine Toyota components, and the agent stated Toyota were being "difficult" about supplying Toyota parts to him.

Original quote by the agent was 15,000 to 20,000 baht. The agent phoned me after a couple of days and said Toyota Lanna ( Chiang Mai ) had replaced all the shockers, plus all the wheel bearings. The work order was changed by someone at Toyota Lanna. They had done this without contacting the agent. New quote was 30,000 baht.

When I checked the returned used parts with the agent, one front shocker was sticking, the other was OK. Similarly one out of the four wheel bearings showed evidence of binding.

Either I bought a vehicle with far more km on the odometer than 80,000, or it had been subject to flooding which can affect wheel bearings, or Toyota exaggerated the amount of work necessary. Vehicle condition was very good, which seems to rule out flooding.

The final invoice was 32,357 baht.

A few questions for the forum - is it normal business practice in Thailand to replace parts in a vehicle without discussing with the owner first?

Do Thai big businesses care if they don't get repeat customers?

What do you think?

[Robert24]

No this is not usual. Every time I weny to a garage, they check the car and then mention to you what should be fixed and the cost for it. And then you can decide what should be fixed.

My experience has been that the big garages like Toyota Lanna try to oversell what needs to be done. And they charge a lot of money for what they do. You better of go to a small garage and get everything done there. Non-orginal parts are equally as good as original ones in my opinion.

[Ace of Pop]

Toyota would have been cheaper.Freangs have this strange idea that MAIN Dealers cost much more.

[philipm]

Sounds like you have been taken for a ride.

they think stupid farang, if one side is worn but another is not they will just think replace all.

while i can appreciate that its best to do pairs/sets at one time to avoid you coming in for replacement again of the opposing side they should have mentioned it to you first....however if you did not tell them to tell you before installing then they "assume" you have full faith in them and let them decided what is necessary and what is not.

as for wheel bearings, if sound is not coming from it (whine) and the operation is smooth as silk i dont see the reasons of changing it.

that said, your car is 8-years old and if you ask me it is time that sensitive components are changed.

[Costas2008]

There is a difference in price between Toyota main shops.

I asked to replace the T belt in Chiang Rai and Toyota quoted me 4,800 Baht.

Done it in Khon Kaen at the end, Toyota, for 4,000 Baht.

Don't know if this is usual but that was my experience.

[Ace of Pop]

All Genuine Toyota parts are the same listed price all over Thailand , same with Honda.Only Labour costs vary, same as all over the world

[stiggy]

My experience is opposite.I ask for a car or bike to get sorted, i.e you find something wrong fix it and it comes back with only essentials fixed from independent garages

Main dealers Toyota and Honda have always been good from my experience, and will always phone to let me know costs involved and give a choice on parts.They also wash and clean a car as part of the service.

Labour costs are low as a rule in Thailand, new slave cylinders on Mazda fighter cost only 800 bht plus parts for example.

What irks me the most in Thailand is the insistance on leaf spring rear suspension, it's also worth remembering cars do take a hammering here due to road conditions and climate.Especially the suspension and steering components .

[arthurwait]

Scam or not I don't know, but you should replace dampers in pairs and if doing 1 wheel bearing then you might as well do the lot as the others are probably on their way out, but that would be me doing the work myself.

[Aldebaran1981]

Welcome to thailand. Farangs always get ripped!

Then again, it would be safer to replace all worn out parts.

[transam]

Whats a "wheel bearing binding"........?

[bazza40]

A "wheel bearing binding" means the bearing does not roll smoothly, a clicking or stiffness can be heard or felt as the bearing is turned manually.

Thanks for all the comments, added to my education.

[Kwasaki]

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Toyota would have been cheaper.Freangs have this strange idea that MAIN Dealers cost much more.

Main dealers do cost more even during warranty and after that's why I go to a ' Cockpit ' outlet, that said you need to find a good one because as time goes on as always they get complacent, luckily the one I use hasn't yet.

Edited September 12, 2014 by Kwasaki

[vtjforyou]

Nobody cares to have repeat customers in this country, you don't know yet ?

[Ace of Pop]

Thats fine if you dont wander about like my lot, Honda Hua Hin call us to remind about service so we go to the nearest one in whatever area, plus i insist on all service records stamped by Bonafied Dealers. Chevy in Ubon Rat are also are about Customer Care and do the same. I suppose someone like Post #13 just enjoys Thai Bashing.

[technologybytes]

Remember, a quote of "no more than" really means "no less than".

[nickcar]

Always used to use Toyota dealer. Expensive but do a good job. Last 15 or so years have used a local garage who was recommended. They collect and deliver the vehicle. Always call with details about any replacements needed. Choice of genuine Toyaota parts or alternatives, and if i want 2nd hand parts. Car is now 20 years old Toyota Coronna. Stile runs like a dream.

[SDM0712]

Toyota would have been cheaper.Freangs have this strange idea that MAIN Dealers cost much more.

In fact this is normally quite true because the labour charge is higher at a main dealer as their costs are higher. The parts cost remain the same.

My feeling is that while the car is on warranty take it to a main dealer but otherwise take it to a small garage by recommendation. If the small garage cannot be vouched for then stick with a main dealer.

I have never had work done that was not authorised by me first, but having said that I normally tell them that if they do anything extra not agreed by me or the mem, then we won't pay for it. Never been a problem.

I always have a boot full of old parts that have been replaced, this seems pretty standard practice. Also it seems the Thai way to fix a problem is to replace all parts that might be causing it until they strike lucky.

In terms of wanting repeat custom it is Thai mentality in almost every aspect of their life to only think on the short term, so whether or not you come back is not considered, or if it is nothing is done to facilitate that.

S

[maswov]

Most won't do that, in fact last time I had some work done on my Jeep I dropped it off and went to BKK for a few days expecting it to be done when I got home. I went to the shop and it was torn apart, he wanted to show me the badt parts before he did anything else.

[thailand49]

If I got it right from what you wrote?

You brought a use Vios 2005, from some Agent? no affiliation with Toyota and the agent said it needed these items and you wanted to make sure it got original parts only! The Agent quoted you a amount not from Toyota but just from the top of his head with his experience?

Now after the service was done which was at a Toyota the agent said here is what it will cost you which was much higher than what the agent quoted you!

Here is my answer and this is my experience from Toyota in Chon Buri... What did you expect??????????????????????????

You were too lazy to do it yourself instead you had the agent take the vehicle to Toyota for you. Now you are complaining about basically only one shock needed to be replaced? You are picky about parts being original but feel scam now because you see only one needed to be replaced? Has it dawn on you that maybe the other shock has sense nearly ten years of wear. It would make sense if they replace both so you would have a more even ride? This might also be true with the bearing? I have a 2006 Yaris with about 78,000 KM, and at that point you need pretty much a major service which cost me 8,000 baht two months ago you figure out the rest?

Why they didn't call I have no idea? but I think if you are so picky you should have brought the car and had it service yourself? Maybe the so cal agent got a cut and padded the bill for himself? Was he doing it all for free?

Sure the dealership does charge more and when I drop my car off at Chon Buri,I get a estimate from a person that speaks English never had a problem! No you didn't get scammed you scammed yourself by asking someone else to take care of your problem! The end, if the car runs great that is all that matter and call it a day and do it yourself next time!

Edited September 13, 2014 by thailand49

[steven100]

2006 Toyota with 80,000 on the clock ??

This would be a red flag already. Anyway, one thing in thailand when dealing with anyone or any business is to make sure everything is understood by both parties.

We have a Chevrolet and always get it serviced at the same genuine service centre. Usually charge around 1,500 baht , and they always do a thorough job.

I believe 90% of problem that arise such as yours is due to miscommunication ... it would have been prudent to instruct the agent not to proceed with any work until your satisfied with the price.

Not always easy to do in thailand .. but it's paramount so not to be overcharged.

As for your car .... it's like anything you buy , if your happy with it then it doesn't matter what you paid.

[MediaWatcher]

philipm, on 12 Sept 2014 - 15:34, said:

Sounds like you have been taken for a ride.

they think stupid farang, if one side is worn but another is not they will just think replace all.

while i can appreciate that its best to do pairs/sets at one time to avoid you coming in for replacement again of the opposing side they should have mentioned it to you first....however if you did not tell them to tell you before installing then they "assume" you have full faith in them and let them decided what is necessary and what is not.

as for wheel bearings, if sound is not coming from it (whine) and the operation is smooth as silk i dont see the reasons of changing it.

that said, your car is 8-years old and if you ask me it is time that sensitive components are changed.

Shockies should ALWAYS be replaced in pairs.

[ebean001]

Odometers can be rolled back. In USA, the miles reading is recorded frequently - e.g at the repair shop, when the title is transferred, etc. Plus rolling back is a crime that will cost you way too much money. That is the USA. I have no idea what info you can find out in Thailand and no idea of the law. Also in USA it is assumed a person drives their car about 15,000 miles per year. That is about 24,000 klms. If the car is nearly 8 years old then it should have around 200,000 klms. It has only 80,000. hummmm. that comes out to be about 6000/year. hummmm. Lastly, no modern car with only 80,000 klms should have any serious problems. With 200,000 klms maybe some problems should surface.

[MediaWatcher]

philipm, on 12 Sept 2014 - 15:34, said:

Sounds like you have been taken for a ride.

they think stupid farang, if one side is worn but another is not they will just think replace all.

while i can appreciate that its best to do pairs/sets at one time to avoid you coming in for replacement again of the opposing side they should have mentioned it to you first....however if you did not tell them to tell you before installing then they "assume" you have full faith in them and let them decided what is necessary and what is not.

as for wheel bearings, if sound is not coming from it (whine) and the operation is smooth as silk i dont see the reasons of changing it.

that said, your car is 8-years old and if you ask me it is time that sensitive components are changed.

My Nissan is 15 years old, besides changing the tires, brakes pads/linings, engine oil, trans fluids( only once at about 155,000km's), the only thing that's been changed is the timing belt... oh, and one set of spark plugs( and only because I had the trans fluids changed).

[ggt]

Welcome to Thailand...you were given the normal Thai business practice...scamming is a normal way of doing business...in my experience...can not be too careful...they are expert and deception and conniving...

[MediaWatcher]

arthurwait, on 12 Sept 2014 - 18:46, said:

Scam or not I don't know, but you should replace dampers in pairs and if doing 1 wheel bearing then you might as well do the lot as the others are probably on their way out, but that would be me doing the work myself.

But then, how many people have a press to press out the bearings and press in/on new ones.

[Saan]

I took my car in for a grease and oil change. Prepared for communication problems I took the workshop manual with me and pointed to the grease nipples and mimed pumping grease. Ah, all clear, understand. The car came back with four new wheel bearings and no grease and oil change.. Mai pen rai.

[davidmann]

always found Toyota main dealer in Nong Khai ,very fair ,good price ,good service ,got thai head mechanic there worked in the USA so speaks good english ,try taken toyota for service in the west ,basic service was 600 euros that was a shock ,they said i needed new clutch and brakes ,2000 euros ,second garage said no you don't ,car running good without new brakes and clutch ,so for sure thailand is cheap for running cars and life ,if you can stand the heat ,not just talking about the weather

[Benmart]

Welcome to thailand. Farangs always get ripped!

Then again, it would be safer to replace all worn out parts.

Farangs don't "always get ripped". I'm one. I live in Thailand and I haven't seen where I've been "ripped"(off).

When under the influence of drink, drugs or altered thinking, then I suppose "always" could apply.

As for the parts. When in doubt, change them out. It's a personal choice.

[steve73]

Odometers can be rolled back. In USA, the miles reading is recorded frequently - e.g at the repair shop, when the title is transferred, etc. Plus rolling back is a crime that will cost you way too much money. That is the USA. I have no idea what info you can find out in Thailand and no idea of the law. Also in USA it is assumed a person drives their car about 15,000 miles per year. That is about 24,000 klms. If the car is nearly 8 years old then it should have around 200,000 klms. It has only 80,000. hummmm. that comes out to be about 6000/year. hummmm. Lastly, no modern car with only 80,000 klms should have any serious problems. With 200,000 klms maybe some problems should surface.

I agree this looks a little on the low side for an 8 yo car... A full service history from a main dealer(s) always records mileage so paperwork from day one can be used to confirm what the odo shows - if there's no SH then ALWAYS suspect the reading..

I've heard that it costs around 1500-5000bt to clock (whether it's mechancal or digital), and if you look at enough secondhand cars in the "tents" you'll soon notice that they frequently seem to have 80-90,000 on the clock.. Cheap to replace other items that would normally show visible signs of wear, such as seats or carpets.

Go for a higher mileage car with a FSH over a low mileage one without SH documentation anyday.... IMO.

[VINCENT2012]

is it normal business practice in Thailand to replace parts in a vehicle without discussing with the owner first?

if you pay.....why not?...you asked for original no?

and

Do Thai big businesses care if they don't get repeat customers?

honestly they dont give a s.h.i.t

conclusion never buy here a old secound hand car, ..........you cant imagine what thais are capable to do with an engine.