Taking the ultimate gamble with medical insurance

[pinkpanther99]

Hi there

Medical insurance.

Yes, I know. Exciting, isn't it?

But stay with me....

I'm 30 years old, I'm rarely sick. I've only ever been to hospital once in my life, when I had my appendix out when I was 8 years old.

I've never bothered with medical insurance for the 4 years I've been living in Thailand so far.

However, after becoming a dad two years ago, ones outlook on life has begun to change.

But, like I said, seldom am I ill and it's even rarer that I need hospital treatment, so should I bother with medical insurance? Would paying for an insurance plan just be throwing money down the drain? Would it not be better to just save my own rainy day fund should the need for hospital treatment ever arise?

What do you reckon?

Is not getting medical insurance irresponsible and stupid, especially now that I have a wife and child or would the money I'd put to an insurance policy not be better spent say going on my daughters education?

Is anyone else taking this kind of gamble with insurance?

Thanks in advance!

Edited September 16, 2014 by pinkpanther99

[ezzra]

Conceder Murphy's law, just when you think that all is well and nothing will happened to you,

IT WILL, I have always been told, for the sake of some money, better be safe than sorry,

proper medical assistant, hospital stay and medicines are rather pricy here in Thailand..

[pomchop]

Maybe just take major medical which only pays if you are admitted to the hospital but would not pay for any everyday type doctor visits. At your age it would be pretty cheap and it will protect you from the BIG bills....keep in mind that there may be limited coverage for motorbike accidents though.

[Old Croc]

I'm self insured because, for someone in their 60s. the cost of insurance crosses the line of being economically viable. And, I have sufficient assets to cover virtually all eventualities

However, at your age, unless you're very rich, you should get health insurance for the sake of your family. A sudden major illness or, more likely road trauma could break the bank as well as your body.

[garyinhuahin]

Major medical for you and your other family members, and a separate accident policy would be prudent

[dman]

If your in good health, have good family genes, don't smoke, drink in moderation, eat healthy, wear a good helmet when motorcycling and generally not engage in high risk activities it is more than likely you are fine going without. I'm 61 and lost medical coverage over 4 years ago when I gave notice to my American company and quit. I was based in Shanghai at the time and wanted out of the big city. They still wanted me to work so I am now a contractor working from a (virtual office) I looked into insurance plans here and to me it seemed like all the big scary things that will financially break you are somehow not covered or have strict limits, especially pre-existing and chronic conditions. I am comfortable with my decision and pay as I go for the odd injury here and there, but it is a personal decision and based on many factors mentioned above and also the fact that I have a good financial cushion. You did not mention work. If you can get medical coverage from your employer then that would be the way to go. Good luck,,,,

[thhMan]

The best answer is the one you already know.

As a dad, you have responsibilities... One of them is thinking for yourself...

[cassde]

I am 71 years old and until 15th June this year was totally fit. On the 15th June I suffered a major heart attack and was admitted to the Thainakarin hospital in Bangna where I had a stent inserted inside one of the arteries of my heart. I fortunately had medical insurance, taken out the year before, but because of my age had to pay £2000 up front. Also, the hospital did not have an arrangement with my insurer. The hospital, like most private hospitals in Thailand, demanded 200,000 baht as a deposit up front, which I was fortunate to have and paid. Now fully fit again and only another 4000 baht to pay, my insurance company paid 100,000 baht.

Now you have a young family, if you haven't a 200,000 baht up front payment, take out a major illness policy to avoid what I had to pay.

[chiang mai]

I stopped buying medical insurance over ten years ago, I'm 64 and I self insure. I reckon I have paid medical bills here in Thailand to the tune of around 250k Baht but I've saved over seven or eight times that amount in insurance premiums. It's not for everyone and of course the risk increases as you get older. But if you have the money and can set aside say three million at age 40, invest it sensibly and let it build up, it's always there in the event of a medical emergency.

[Rimbuman]

At age 30 premium don't have to be that high.

[jpinx]

We've kicked this topic around a lot and everyone has to consider their own position. For the OP I'd suggest hospitalisation insurance - if you can find that as a separate policy for health only, and have a separate accident insurance. If you live full-time in Thailand, get Thai insurance which is recognised everywhere. Look for policies with excesses which you must pay - maybe the first 100,000 Baht. That should keep premiums sensible.

fwiw - Bangkok Bank have thai policies that cover farangs. I have their accident insurance but I believe they'll cover your health at your age too.

I'm not promoting it - just sharing what I discovered. Read the policy carefully Motorbiking - even as a motorbike taxi passenger - is rarely covered.

Farang coverage

http://www.bangkokinsurance.com/insurance/insurance-products.php

Accident -

http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBank/PersonalBanking/BuildYourWealth/Bancassurance/NonLifeInsurance/Pages/PA1st.aspx

Previous discussion in here--

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/741208-a-e-fund-co-op-for-ex-pats/page-2#entry8085991

Edited September 16, 2014 by jpinx

[thailand49]

First, are you just talking about yourself? because you did say you have a family now, a wife and daughter. You should be thinking about them too, simply because they are not you! For a child, the younger they are the more they get sick, when you look at insurance look at the rates for age. You will clearly see the price fluctuation drop when they get older that is because the insurance companies keep stats!

Like the guy said, if you got the funds available put it aside for out and inpatient. Medical insurance here is a la cart, most say for outpatient save some money and pay out of pocket for inpatient maybe buy 500,000 coverage and more as you get older since the stats show you will use it more and also think about getting something now because once you have a pre-existing condition and want insurance you will be denied! Here from my experience they want you to have insurance and will cover you when you are healthy but as soon as you start to need and use it they will cut you loose. It is a tough choice to make!

You can get accident insurance like for motorbike accident, broken leg, arm etc... coverage is up to you.. I got one from AXA, for 50,000 baht coverage for just 2,000 baht a year in case I got to go to the emergency ward. Then I have health overnight.

Edited September 16, 2014 by thailand49

[TheFishman1]

Get ins when you don't need it at your age it's cheap, so when you need it you have it

[traveller247]

I have lived in thai for 3 years. Never been hospitalised in all my life. I was riding a motorcycle.

A man from netherlands is confined to a wheelchair, he was under the influence of alchohol ane crossed a busy intersection right in front of me. I hit the wheelchair, and dont remember a thing. I was in intensive care for 9 days with a brain heamorrage and broken jaw. 400,000 baht later, i have titanium and screws in both sides.

Yes you can all say motirbikes are dangerous, but it was a freak accident, who expects someone to just cross at a green light in a wheelchair.

Now im purchasing insurance. Good lyck playing russian roulette.

[JLCrab]

What is generally referred to on this Forum as 'self-insurance' is not self-insurance -- you have a reserve. Nobody is going to give you financial coverage more that you put in which is a definition of insurance being a pooled risk; some will get back more than they put in and some get less. You just never know in which group you may fall.

[pinkpanther99]

Some very sensible advice here, thanks very much.

Just for info, I don't smoke, don't ride a motorbike, and drink very moderately (I can go several months or more without drinking), I eat healthily, and exercise 4 times per week.

That said, I think, as some posters have already mentioned, it is always better to be safe than sorry, right?

Guess I better start looking for an insurance policy (yawn!)

Thanks again guys!

[Suradit69]

I stopped buying medical insurance over ten years ago, I'm 64 and I self insure. I reckon I have paid medical bills here in Thailand to the tune of around 250k Baht but I've saved over seven or eight times that amount in insurance premiums. It's not for everyone and of course the risk increases as you get older. But if you have the money and can set aside say three million at age 40, invest it sensibly and let it build up, it's always there in the event of a medical emergency.

I reckon I have paid medical bills here in Thailand to the tune of around 250k Baht but I've saved over seven or eight times that amount in insurance premiums.

8 times Baht 250,000 would be Baht 2,000,000. If you spent that much on medical insurance over ten years, you would have had premiums of Baht 200,000 a year, when you were in your 50's. Makes no sense.

Some of the other comments in this thread make no sense for Thailand either.

Maybe just take major medical which only pays if you are admitted to the hospital but would not pay for any everyday type doctor visits. At your age it would be pretty cheap and it will protect you from the BIG bills....keep in mind that there may be limited coverage for motorbike accidents though.

Insurance on offer in Thailand, like BUPA, is hospital insurance. Unless you add on highly uneconomic out-patient care coverage, the only time your insurance will pay is when you are admitted to hospital and, possibly, for emergency/accident treatment.

And some of you use the term "major medical," clearly without any idea what it means.

Major medical insurance is a form of health care coverage that provides benefits for most types of medical expenses that may be incurred. Offering more complete coverage with fewer gaps, major medical insurance covers a much broader range of medical expenses - including those incurred both in and out of the hospital - with generally higher individual benefits and policy maximum limits. These more extensive medical insurance policies are divided into two general groups: comprehensive major medical insurance, in which the traditional basic coverages and essentially any other type of medical expense are combined into a single comprehensive policy; and supplemental major medical insurance, in which coverage begins with a traditional basic policy that pays first, with the major medical coverage added to pick up expenses left uncovered by the initial basic policy. Let's look at each of these groups and examine how the generally operate.

Edited September 16, 2014 by Suradit69

[alfieconn]

The way I look at it is that 60,000 baht a year for Health insurance doesn't hurt me but a 3m baht Hospital bill probably would !

[Dogbreath]

Your chances of a major illness are low considering age only, but an accident is more likely for younger people. At age 30, the cost of $1 million baht coverage would be pretty cheap. I am an old duffer (71) without insurance and uninsurable A major illness two years ago has cost me about 600,000 baht so far. Glad I can pay it, but I would rather have the money in the bank and put an insurance company on the hook. I would say you have to be a little ting tong NOT being insured since it is so inexpensive for young people. Just my two baht worth of advice.

[jpinx]

I forgot to add that if you are feeling responsible for your family you might want some form of life-insurance so they are not left destitute. Remember 2 things -

1. Thailand has NO safety-net.

2. Don't insure yourself for too much or you become more valuable dead than alive.

[alfieconn]

I stopped buying medical insurance over ten years ago, I'm 64 and I self insure. I reckon I have paid medical bills here in Thailand to the tune of around 250k Baht but I've saved over seven or eight times that amount in insurance premiums. It's not for everyone and of course the risk increases as you get older. But if you have the money and can set aside say three million at age 40, invest it sensibly and let it build up, it's always there in the event of a medical emergency.

So your Insurance premiums would be a minimum of 175,000 baht per year ?

[Firefan]

The way I look at it is that 60,000 baht a year for Health insurance doesn't hurt me but a 3m baht Hospital bill probably would !

fully agree. Btw it is great that the OP eats healthy and work out. I doubt that will stop the yaba/red bull infused driver from ploughing straight through him at a pedestrian work or elsewhere. Get at least in-patien care insurance covering a couple of mill Baht. Cheers!

[chiang mai]

I stopped buying medical insurance over ten years ago, I'm 64 and I self insure. I reckon I have paid medical bills here in Thailand to the tune of around 250k Baht but I've saved over seven or eight times that amount in insurance premiums. It's not for everyone and of course the risk increases as you get older. But if you have the money and can set aside say three million at age 40, invest it sensibly and let it build up, it's always there in the event of a medical emergency.

I reckon I have paid medical bills here in Thailand to the tune of around 250k Baht but I've saved over seven or eight times that amount in insurance premiums.

8 times Baht 250,000 would be Baht 2,000,000. If you spent that much on medical insurance over ten years, you would have had premiums of Baht 200,000 a year, when you were in your 50's. Makes no sense.

As I recall, the last insurance premiums I paid for health insurance in the UK were to BUPA for my wife and myself in 2002 and were £3,100 which is broadly THB 175k. Given that the premiums increased every year my estimate may be on the low side.

[chiang mai]

I stopped buying medical insurance over ten years ago, I'm 64 and I self insure. I reckon I have paid medical bills here in Thailand to the tune of around 250k Baht but I've saved over seven or eight times that amount in insurance premiums. It's not for everyone and of course the risk increases as you get older. But if you have the money and can set aside say three million at age 40, invest it sensibly and let it build up, it's always there in the event of a medical emergency.

So your Insurance premiums would be a minimum of 175,000 baht per year ?

As stated, £3,100 per year to BUPA in the UK in 2002.

[AAInsuranceBrokers]

Some very sensible advice here, thanks very much.

Just for info, I don't smoke, don't ride a motorbike, and drink very moderately (I can go several months or more without drinking), I eat healthily, and exercise 4 times per week.

That said, I think, as some posters have already mentioned, it is always better to be safe than sorry, right?

Guess I better start looking for an insurance policy (yawn!)

Thanks again guys!

To give you an idea of premiums for a full payment policy form Allianz, a 30 year old with a max benefit level of 16m Baht would be 20,000 Baht for this year for IPD (hospitalisation)

[Card]

I take the gamble of no medical insurance. I am 65 and very healthy and take care of myself, both in exercise and diet. I am in robust health and always have been.

It's not just a question of yes or no. It's what the insurances actually offer. Most of my health issues are outpatient or medical exams - neither of which are covered by insurance so I would not gain by buying it. Then there is the small print, exclusions, limitations and pre-existing conditions to consider. Whe you look at the insurances in relation to your own personal circumstances and needs, you may find, like me, that it is better to put the cost of premiums into a trust fund.

A much better way to spend money is on regular and very thorough medical exams. These pinpoint possible problems that you can focus on remedying. You should also consider them in relation to any family history of particular problems and focus on spotting those early. That way you don't need insurance because you will stay healthier. Now accident insurance is something else you might want to consider instead as accidents in Thailand are more likely at your young age, although accidents are often covered free by Thai hospital, but not subsequent long-term care.

Edited September 16, 2014 by Card

[kurnell]

I drink (more than most), eat poorly, never exercise, smoke (when I drink) and I never visit doctors unless something is hanging off. I self diagnose and after 20 years think I am almost a qualified doctor, so much so that my mates come to me for a diagnosis and treatment. I've never spent a night in hospital in my life, but I am insured, mainly because my company pays for it. However, even if my company didn't pay, I would get health insurance (for serious/expensive complaints) as I don't want to lose my fortune in medical bills and leave my family destitute.

[Card]

I am 71 years old and until 15th June this year was totally fit. On the 15th June I suffered a major heart attack and was admitted to the Thainakarin hospital in Bangna where I had a stent inserted inside one of the arteries of my heart. I fortunately had medical insurance, taken out the year before, but because of my age had to pay £2000 up front. Also, the hospital did not have an arrangement with my insurer. The hospital, like most private hospitals in Thailand, demanded 200,000 baht as a deposit up front, which I was fortunate to have and paid. Now fully fit again and only another 4000 baht to pay, my insurance company paid 100,000 baht.

Now you have a young family, if you haven't a 200,000 baht up front payment, take out a major illness policy to avoid what I had to pay.

Most medical insurances don't cover beyond 70 years old. Sometimes they do if you have taken their insurance up from the age of 60 or below and sometimes if you pay an extra premium. If you had saved the premiums from your insurance all the years you paid in would it have covered the cost of what the insurance paid for the treatment? I bet several times over. A common premium is about 50,000 baht per year so it would only mean 4 years of insurance premiums to pay for that treatment.

Edited September 16, 2014 by Card

[alfieconn]

Self insurance ( although it's not really insurance) is ok as long as the following 2 points don't happen :

1. Saving money monthly scenario :If you don't have a large hospital bill to pay too soon after starting, as obviously you wouldn't have the money to pay the bill.

2. Lump sum put away : If you don't have a large hospital bill to pay too soon, as if this is the case then you no longer have the funds to pay for any future hospital expenses.

Edited September 16, 2014 by alfieconn

[Card]

I drink (more than most), eat poorly, never exercise, smoke (when I drink) and I never visit doctors unless something is hanging off. I self diagnose and after 20 years think I am almost a qualified doctor, so much so that my mates come to me for a diagnosis and treatment. I've never spent a night in hospital in my life, but I am insured, mainly because my company pays for it. However, even if my company didn't pay, I would get health insurance (for serious/expensive complaints) as I don't want to lose my fortune in medical bills and leave my family destitute.

You don't need insurance. You need a change of lifestyle. And quick.