British backpacker arrested for suspected murder of fellow Britons at Koh Tao

[Lokie]

Is all over early evening UK news and main gist is the 6 Burmese workers been arrested and showing Bloodstained jeans held up to camera at their living site/quarters, then mentions two brit backpacker brothers helping RTP enquires... (BBC & ITV UK news at 6pm)

[PaPiPuPePo]

Quit thinking that the Police are morons in need to be taught as we know better.

They seem prone to bungling, and given the stakes I'd hedge my bets if I had anything to lose.

[mango66]

It would be very convenient if a fellow Brit could be found guilty as then Thailand would remain a safe place to visit except for the occasional deranged Brit.

The British foreign Office seems to think a British visitor to Thailand is 17x more likely to be murdered than that same person visiting any other country.

(Gleaned from the info, 10% of British citizens murdered overseas happen in Thailand, but Thailand only accounts for 0.6% of British overseas travel)

When asked why this information was not made public, an official said, it would have an unfair effect on Thai business interests.

seems they are welcomed here,

why ?

behavier ?

[Thai at Heart]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11101630/British-backpacker-was-drowned-and-beaten-to-death.html

Police say water was found in the male victims lungs. No semen found on female victim

Edited September 17, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[Duggsie]

Not sure if this has already been revealed to ThaiVisa but Channel 4 News, here in UK (one of the better news programmes) just stated that, despite having been interviewed and under suspicion, Mr Ware has been ruled-out of any DNA matches as the DNA collected doesn't match ANY of those currently considered suspects.

I wish people would keep their speculations to themselves and their buddie's in the bar and not broadcast globally, as so many have done here.

Let's deal in FACTS, shall we (that's a message to the Thai Police also who, if they have nothing to say would be best served by stating "we currently have nothing to say", rather than flip=flopping from one "plausible" possibility to another as, far too often, seems to be their wont.

We currently have only 2 facts:

1) Two innocents (their nationalities are not an issue) have been brutally murdered.

2) The perpetrator(s) is/are still walking free.

Forget blood-stained garments (allegedly), crimes of passion (speculatively), bikini-wearing Westerners (justifying their murder???? - insultingly).

Facts please, people. Because we need them and I yearn to see them posted, once verified.

As stated in a post of mine on another thread, my heartfelt heartbreak and wish for justice (whatever that can ever truly mean, in a case such as this) for the loved ones of these youngsters is foremost in my thoughts.

Also, this is pretty close to home for me as I'm not only from Jersey, where the male victim hails from, but two of my kids, each in their mid-twenties, are booked into the same resort on Kho Tao, in a few weeks time. Further, my son is a long-time friend of the male victim (David Miller) and shared accomodation with him and a bunch of other pals, for awhile. My son is suitably very upset at this horrendous news.

Naturally, we have no links to the poor lass from Gt. Yarmouth (but such matters not in the levels of empathy I hope I am capable of feeling towards her family and other loved ones distress and loss).

So, for the families, can we please reign it in on the crass and ill-informed armchair verdicts, boys and girls?

Edited September 17, 2014 by Duggsie

[JohnThailandJohn]

Would seem at this stage they got the right man.

It would make sense from a possible motive stance given the crime appears to have been very emotional/personal given the injuries.

Although only speculating ... Not sure any rape was involved and would guess somebody stumbled upon the two having sex and become enraged. Would also suspect what is being called blonde hair was simply translated from light hair (lighter than typical Asian). Also suspect the blood found on his cloths was either transfer or splatter that the suspect and police neither saw initially.

Also sounds a bit similar to the train employee who raped and killed the young girl who explained away his injuries initially only to be arrested days later as more evidence was uncovered.

[JenniferSG]

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I wouldn't say that a blood stain is significant evidence.

Murder needs a motive, establish the motive and they will have a case.

Blood stain is not significant?! wow.

Only on TV must you have an established motive. Many times, it is never known why people do what they do.

[Aceicol]

Would seem at this stage they got the right man.

It would make sense from a possible motive stance given the crime appears to have been very emotional/personal given the injuries.

Although only speculating ... Not sure any rape was involved and would guess somebody stumbled upon the two having sex and become enraged. Would also suspect what is being called blonde hair was simply translated from light hair (lighter than typical Asian). Also suspect the blood found on his cloths was either transfer or splatter that the suspect and police neither saw initially.

Also sounds a bit similar to the train employee who raped and killed the young girl who explained away his injuries initially only to be arrested days later as more evidence was uncovered.

That's one hell of a speculation.

Why would it make sense for his best friend to kill him because he went off with a girl? That's what mates the world over do, certainly wouldn't be what I'd class as a motive to speculate over.

[JenniferSG]

There are pictures online of the police displaying the blood stained clothing laid across various furniture. There goes any reliable fiber evidence or DNA due to cross-contamination if that's how they're handling the evidence.

[Thai at Heart]

Would seem at this stage they got the right man.

It would make sense from a possible motive stance given the crime appears to have been very emotional/personal given the injuries.

Although only speculating ... Not sure any rape was involved and would guess somebody stumbled upon the two having sex and become enraged. Would also suspect what is being called blonde hair was simply translated from light hair (lighter than typical Asian). Also suspect the blood found on his cloths was either transfer or splatter that the suspect and police neither saw initially.

Also sounds a bit similar to the train employee who raped and killed the young girl who explained away his injuries initially only to be arrested days later as more evidence was uncovered.

No accused matches for DNA so far.

The odds that the British guy did it in a jealous rage is not impossible but really unlikely.

[3NUMBAS]

Just found a better picture

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2758358/Shirtless-prime-suspect-caught-CCTV-near-Thai-beach-party-two-British-tourists-bludgeoned-death-island.html

Dailymail doesn't load, where I am sitting. mmmmm.

You are so lucky. If you seriously wish to view the Dailymail there is an app which is not blocked.

Found a workaround. If you copy the link address and paste it into your browser, it expands and gets you right to the article. The picture's okay. The first thing that comes to mind, unless this guy just got a haircut, no one got a handful of his hair. Would seem to be too short. And certainly not blonde. Mai chai.

just do a search for proxy servers or are they all blocked too .they change all the time so they cant be blocked .100s of them

why would a guy get jealous when theres heaps of local crumpet around ,dont make sense

Edited September 17, 2014 by 3NUMBAS

[joecoolfrog]

Arjaydee

Do you not find it odd that no locals have apparently been questioned , not bashing anybody , simply enquiring.

[Tokay]

I rather think it is readily apparent this British lad is about to be fitted up for the murders. It is a classic ploy and quite in keeping with the pressure being exerted by the Junta leader who has made it quite clear no Thai would do this and the protection of Thailand's " reputation " is paramount.

The Brit ambassador should get someone down there pretty damn quick if a major travesty is to be avoided.

Are you saying a Brit couldn't have done this? If so, based on what?

No, he is saying a Brit is a perfect scapegoat now that all the Burmese have been cleared.

Guilty or not, someone is going to take the fall for these murders. That is a 100% fact.

[Tokay]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11101630/British-backpacker-was-drowned-and-beaten-to-death.html

Police say water was found in the male victims lungs. No semen found on female victim

Other reports say semen was found in her vagina and anus. Another report says the male had semen on/in him too.

Thai reporting and Thai police work are so bad, there is no way to know what the truth is. They probably don't even know.

[3NUMBAS]

Put a reward out for creditable information, see what happens.

carpet baggers ??

[alyx]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11101630/British-backpacker-was-drowned-and-beaten-to-death.html

Police say water was found in the male victims lungs. No semen found on female victim

Lost in translation?

The paper says "Coroners said Ms Witheridge had also suffered head trauma and that they had found traces of semen in her body, according to Thailand's The Nation newspaper."

Mind you, they seem to report news that have already been contradicted as they point at the British National, whose guilt seems to have been dismissed by the local Police

[PaPiPuPePo]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11101630/British-backpacker-was-drowned-and-beaten-to-death.html

Police say water was found in the male victims lungs. No semen found on female victim

From the article you linked to:

"Coroners said Ms Witheridge had also suffered head trauma and that they had found traces of semen in her body, according to Thailand's The Nation newspaper."

How did you draw the exact opposite conclusion above??? Bad enough there's so much speculation and people getting blamed:

"Prachum Ruangthong, the police chief, said "The weight of evidence suggests that it was a foreign man.""

based on flimsy evidence without reporting the opposite of one of the very few scientifically derived bits of information.

[Tokay]

Just a thought,

Dont all Thai ID cards carry fingerprints now ? ... my family does and they are on database system as they link them to Thai passports... so lift fingerprints if poss from weapon etc... run through the database of fingerprints on ID cards use markers for similarity call them in take DNA samples and match... start with all on the island ID cards and go from there.

Yea, but a Thai didn't do it. So why bother checking the Thai print database for massively contaminated prints that match the weapon?

This will be a great reason to start finger printing foreigners. Of course, illegal migrant workers slip through those cracks and will remain undocumented, but at least someone will get rich building the system and those in charge can make a bunch of press releases saying how safe Thailand is now that all foreigners are accounted for and printed.

[ukrules]

The Daily Mail link is working perfectly for me and I use a major ISP

[Aceicol]

Just a thought,

Dont all Thai ID cards carry fingerprints now ? ... my family does and they are on database system as they link them to Thai passports... so lift fingerprints if poss from weapon etc... run through the database of fingerprints on ID cards use markers for similarity call them in take DNA samples and match... start with all on the island ID cards and go from there.

Yea, but a Thai didn't do it. So why bother checking the Thai print database for massively contaminated prints that match the weapon?

This will be a great reason to start finger printing foreigners. Of course, illegal migrant workers slip through those cracks and will remain undocumented, but at least someone will get rich building the system and those in charge can make a bunch of press releases saying how safe Thailand is now that all foreigners are accounted for and printed.

I've been finger printed flying into New York. I'm surprised more countries don't do it already.

[Thaiwine]

With regard to the hoe (weapon?)

The pics I saw it had a wooden handle

I was told that the grain of wood makes it impossible to get fingerprints

[katana]

Am i right in saying that it's unusual that DNA is being used in Thailand?

I am more than aware they have it available but as far as i have read it's not very often you read words like, "DNA will be used to help find the cause of this....." In fact, outwith the Tsunami i can't ever recall reading about it being used or am i miles out here?

I've seen it mentioned in the Thai language press a few times previously in murder stories that DNA samples will be sent for analysis.

anyone surprise there are no pictures of the accused Burmese workers? if they were one of the prime suspects, Thai media would have splashed their picture everywhere. Or maybe I missed it?

They were pictured in the Thai language press and TV yesterday.

Thai-language Facebook is awash with the usual sort of rumors - i.e., the two British males had a homosexual relationship, but that the murdered male was bisexual, and the other British male became jealous because the male victim was cavorting with the female victim and did for them both.

Typical lakornesque stuff, nothing to back it up, AFAICT.

I'd seen that on a few Thai language message boards attached to news websites today too. There was a certain lack of sympathy with quite a few Thai posters being of the opinion that the couple bought the murder upon themselves by having sex sex in the open like that. They were also speculating about the homosexual love tryst angle with the victim's friend too.

Edited September 17, 2014 by katana

[katana]

Murdered within 50m of the police station ........... has the policeman on duty at the time been questioned yet?

Would seem at this stage they got the right man.

It would make sense from a possible motive stance given the crime appears to have been very emotional/personal given the injuries.

Although only speculating ... Not sure any rape was involved and would guess somebody stumbled upon the two having sex and become enraged. Would also suspect what is being called blonde hair was simply translated from light hair (lighter than typical Asian). Also suspect the blood found on his cloths was either transfer or splatter that the suspect and police neither saw initially.

Also sounds a bit similar to the train employee who raped and killed the young girl who explained away his injuries initially only to be arrested days later as more evidence was uncovered.

I was thinking about that too. It's possible that with the nightly parties on the beach, this wasn't the first time Westerners were seen having sex on the beach, offending sensitivities of the locals there. Maybe one local became enraged and just flipped out over it.

I really wish when something like this happens they'd immediately invite the British to rush some of their best people to aid in the investigation.

If nothing else it would show concern, and also prove transparency in the investigation.

The last thing the Thais want is foreign involvement and transparency in any investigation. Especially from Britons or -- especially -- Scotland Yard (who both groups are famous and respected for both neutrality and impartiality). When the Blue Diamond disappeared, the Saudis sent an investigator who was murdered and the case was closed very quickly. Since then, Private Investigators are not so keen to come to Thailand simply because they have more than two neurons to rub together.

This is a hideous thing to happen, but as with most crimes in the LOS, I doubt the convictions as much as I doubt the honesty of a jet ski scam.

Scotland Yard has is not without its own corruption problems too eg

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/exclusive-scotland-yards-rotten-core-police-failed-to-address-endemic-corruption-9050224.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/police-files-reveal-endemic-corruption-at-the-met-9644667.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10939034/Top-level-police-corruption-inquiries-underway-at-Scotland-Yard.html

[Aceicol]

With regard to the hoe (weapon?)

The pics I saw it had a wooden handle

I was told that the grain of wood makes it impossible to get fingerprints

It's not my answer but a quick search on Google produces this.

We leave a chemical trace when we touch things, as rows of little oily mineral sweat-dots. We've gotten a little more advanced in our abilities to pull prints from surfaces that might have been difficult, if not impossible -- like tissue paper -- unlike a smooth, polished desk top where you can see your fingerprints without dusting, some surfaces don't lend themselves to that kind of situation.

It depends on the surface that was touched. Fingerprints, of course, can be easily lifted from glass, metal, wood, leather and vinyl. But it is almost impossible to get prints from rugs and fabrics.

The quality and presence of fingerprints depend on several factors ranging from the weather to the way a person perspires . More times than not, our latents are just a partial fingerprint. Does a person always leave behind an identifiable fingerprint? No. Some people sweat more than others. Sweat is a part of it. When you touch your hair or your nose, you're transferring grease and oil to your fingers which, will enhance the chances of a fingerprint being left behind

Dusting a crime scene with special powder to find latent, or hidden, prints and remove them with adhesive tape is the old-fashioned and time-tested method that is still used by evidence technicians. Today, there are other methods available for finding latent prints at a crime scene. These newer methods use ultraviolet light, lasers and super .

And yes we can get fingerprints off a dead body. It's time consuming but effective.

Anyone know what the weather was like that night in Koh Toa?

[englishoak]

Im afraid ive just seen the pictures really wish i hadnt but in a way glad I did .......... OMFG the poor girls injuries are HORRIFIC, i had no idea... the rage involved to do that is soo Over The Top, the poor girls family ........ this person or persons have to be caught, if not they he/ they will do this again.

Edited September 17, 2014 by englishoak

[Thai at Heart]

I rather think it is readily apparent this British lad is about to be fitted up for the murders. It is a classic ploy and quite in keeping with the pressure being exerted by the Junta leader who has made it quite clear no Thai would do this and the protection of Thailand's " reputation " is paramount.

The Brit ambassador should get someone down there pretty damn quick if a major travesty is to be avoided.

Are you saying a Brit couldn't have done this? If so, based on what?

No, he is saying a Brit is a perfect scapegoat now that all the Burmese have been cleared.

Guilty or not, someone is going to take the fall for these murders. That is a 100% fact.

He is the worst type of scapegoat when the point is to make the case appear to be solved and put to bed.

If its a Farang on trial there will be hundreds of newspapers,embassy people and lawyers involved.

The last thing they want to do is fit up a Farang and then be utterly embarrassed when their case doesn't get past first base in front of the world.

[mango66]

"Two Britons were discovered nakedly..."

Somebody tell the Thai news rags to employ individuals who can actually write (or edit) correct English grammar for their English language editions.

dear brits !

did you ever hear that there are other languages existing on this globe?

how many % of brits are talking a 2nd language ?

( toilet flushing not counted as language )

and how they are with grammer on this language ?

my youngest is 4 years and already able to basic words

and understandings in 2 foreign languages;

[Lozza]

This is tragic..this is a case of Thai loses face badly in bar over blonde girl. He leaves, calls his mates and it's all over..sorry but this is it, bluntly.

They hunt in packs this lot. It was brutal she was repaid for knocking back a Thai guy advances.

I posted a comment some hours back about a Thai guy looking out of place in the original video of the crime scene and thought what the heck is he there for, meandering with the police. PM made a statement saying the suspect is in the video (odd remark).

This is going to cause huge issues if it is Thai's responsible (which we know the answer).

[Lozza]

Im afraid ive just seen the pictures really wish i hadnt but in a way glad I did .......... OMFG the poor girls injuries are HORRIFIC, i had no idea... the rage involved to do that is soo Over The Top, the poor girls family ........ this person or persons have to be caught, if not they he/ they will do this again.

If they haven't already. I'm saying they because it's so brutal that it couldn't possibly be one attacker.

[LanceGringo]

This is tragic..this is a case of Thai loses face badly in bar over blonde girl. He leaves, calls his mates and it's all over..sorry but this is it, bluntly.

They hunt in packs this lot. It was brutal she was repaid for knocking back a Thai guy advances.

I posted a comment some hours back about a Thai guy looking out of place in the original video of the crime scene and thought what the heck is he there for, meandering with the police. PM made a statement saying the suspect is in the video (odd remark).

This is going to cause huge issues if it is Thai's responsible (which we know the answer).

Which video??