Australia launches anti-terror raids

[jacky54]

As expected a touchy (and for some embarrassing) subject with the usual, look how much we spend on these people and you don't know anything about it response, Why not tell us how much you do spend, and why it does not work? When are Australians going to accept aboriginals as equals?

Nothing to be touchy about. Look it up yourself, I'm not going to be drawn into your ignorant statements or questions. You have no understanding of Aboriginal culture and the difficulty in trying to raise their levels of education etc.

Having looked at this film and others nobody seems more ignorant about Aboriginals than Australians themselves. When you consider all the land stealing, treating them as sub human, denying them their culture and even language and stealing their own children off them, then spending a few bob on them hardly makes up for it does it. Perhaps it's the educational levels in Australians that need to be raised where it's disastrous and inhuman relations with the original inhabitants are concerned.

As for them converting to Islam, Islam does attract the disposed, desperate and poorly educated as converts.

[JockPieandBeans]

I can't speak on the veracity of that article, but I do know for a fact that many aborigines in Australian jails have converted to Islam, as have black inmates in American jails and prisoners in the UK. This article may provide information on the increase of Aboriginals converting to Islam.

http://theconversati...ians-pride-3521

Indeed, the prison population is a hotbed for conversion.

Thanks for the link, I will now go and read.

[jacky54]

That's not good enough for some, they want to criticize what happened 100 years ago. There is a huge amount of taxpayer money poured into Aborigine welfare, not to mention the hundreds of millions the mining companies pay for rights to mine on Aboriginal land. But, as you say, off topic, and no further response from me.

They were still taking Aboriginal children away to brainwash them white until the 1960's

[giddyup]

That's not good enough for some, they want to criticize what happened 100 years ago. There is a huge amount of taxpayer money poured into Aborigine welfare, not to mention the hundreds of millions the mining companies pay for rights to mine on Aboriginal land. But, as you say, off topic, and no further response from me.

They were still taking Aboriginal children away to brainwash them white until the 1960's

If you want to start a separate thread on the plight of the Australian Aborigine go ahead, but it's off topic here and it appears you are doing nothing but trolling.

[jacky54]

That's not good enough for some, they want to criticize what happened 100 years ago. There is a huge amount of taxpayer money poured into Aborigine welfare, not to mention the hundreds of millions the mining companies pay for rights to mine on Aboriginal land. But, as you say, off topic, and no further response from me.

They were still taking Aboriginal children away to brainwash them white until the 1960's

If you want to start a separate thread on the plight of the Australian Aborigine go ahead, but it's off topic here and it appears you are doing nothing but trolling.

Yes quite right better to consider the feelings of the white liberals here who cannot accept the truth of their own countries vile history in this and sweep it under the carpet. But now we have them converting to Islam, so guess what it's back on topic!

Allah be praised!

[giddyup]

That's not good enough for some, they want to criticize what happened 100 years ago. There is a huge amount of taxpayer money poured into Aborigine welfare, not to mention the hundreds of millions the mining companies pay for rights to mine on Aboriginal land. But, as you say, off topic, and no further response from me.

They were still taking Aboriginal children away to brainwash them white until the 1960's

If you want to start a separate thread on the plight of the Australian Aborigine go ahead, but it's off topic here and it appears you are doing nothing but trolling.

Yes quite right better to consider the feelings of the white liberals here who cannot accept the truth of their own countries vile history in this and sweep it under the carpet. But now we have them converting to Islam, so guess what it's back on topic!

Allah be praised!

You really are a dope. No one is denying the ill treatment of Aborigines by past generations and everything is being done to try and right wrongs. So unless you have a time machine where we can go back to the first settlers and start over, go peddle your praise somewhere else.

[jacky54]

. No one is denying the ill treatment of Aborigines by past generations and everything is being done to try and right wrongs. So unless you have a time machine where we can go back to the first settlers and start over, go peddle your praise somewhere else.

Really, you appeared to brush the abuse of Aboriginals aside by claiming cash was being chucked and them and implying nobody but you understood the problems. If you look at the Pilger film (have you?) it's pretty obvious either the money is being wasted on things like whitey salaries and admin, or that it's just a drop in the Ocean. Pity that decades of neglect and oppression seem to be turning more than a few into the hands of the dark side, still Aussies know best!

[simple1]

As expected a touchy (and for some embarrassing) subject with the usual, look how much we spend on these people and you don't know anything about it response, Why not tell us how much you do spend, and why it does not work? When are Australians going to accept aboriginals as equals?

Nothing to be touchy about. Look it up yourself, I'm not going to be drawn into your ignorant statements or questions. You have no understanding of Aboriginal culture and the difficulty in trying to raise their levels of education etc.

Having looked at this film and others nobody seems more ignorant about Aboriginals than Australians themselves. When you consider all the land stealing, treating them as sub human, denying them their culture and even language and stealing their own children off them, then spending a few bob on them hardly makes up for it does it. Perhaps it's the educational levels in Australians that need to be raised where it's disastrous and inhuman relations with the original inhabitants are concerned.

As for them converting to Islam, Islam does attract the disposed, desperate and poorly educated as converts.

Good to see you acknowledge that low education levels and disenfrancisement contribute to recruitment of potential Jihadists. Anyone else commenting on these matters would be called an 'apologist', is this a turnaround?

[jacky54]

People of low education also cave in and convert temporarily just to please Muslims. Many of the UK jihadists who were not converts have been highly educated, they are far more dangerous than the sheep of course.

[JockPieandBeans]

@ giddyup

Thank you for the article that you kindly linked for me.

http://theconversation.com/long-history-with-islam-gives-indigenous-australians-pride-3521

It certainly enhanced my current understanding. Like everything else it does throw a few anomalies.

For some Aboriginal people, the adoption of a faith that demands the avoidance of alcohol, drugs and gambling has also played a positive role in their lives.

A bit of hypocrisy with that that one.

I could list a few others but will leave it with this one.

As the UK has more of a problem than Australia, here are a couple of articles that show the comparisons between the Countries, Even though they are at different stages.

Aus

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/islam-prison-gang-busted/2007/04/21/1176697161148.html

UK

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3913/uk-muslim-prison-population

[Tep]

Funny how the real agenda come up. Anti immigration and anti multiculturalism agenda.

The anti immigrant immigrant strikes again, hating multiculturalism despite living in Thailand maintaining his own language and culture from back home.

Again, those who blow hardest are the biggest hypocrites.

Samran

Let me make my position very, very clear. I am NOT anti Immigrant. I actually believe that it is necessary and the right thing to do. For people of ANY culture or Race that have the skills, training and experience to enhance a Country including Australia.

As I have said before, when Immigrants of any race or Nationality are given the opportunity, to go to a particular Country, in this case Australia. The onus should be on those Immigrants of whatever Race or Culture to integrate into that Society. Australia, quite rightly has an Allegiance ceremony as part of the right of citizenship.

That Oath of allegiance does not stop ANYONE from practicing their own religion. What it does do is make clear that Australian Civil Law is the over riding Law in Australia.

Experience in other Countries, who have a bigger Muslim population, points out quite clearly, that the Muslim population does not accept the Civil Law of the Land, and go to great lengths to try and live under their own laws. Australia has sporadic experience of this dating back to the 70's when its Muslim population was extremely small. To the present time, where things are escalating quicker, it is there for all to see.

Multiculturalism does not work, it is not working in Australia, it does not work in ANY democratic Country. It is a fallacy, peddled by Politicians to suit there own agenda. If multiculturalism worked, why would people live in their minority Ghetto's ?

It is happening in Australia, just like it it happened in the UK and elsewhere. It seems strange that the very people who rammed multiculturalism down the throats of the general public for decades ( The Government ) have now completely backtracked and have now admitted that it does not work. Do you really think it will be any different ? Across Europe many Countries that have a sizable Muslim population, ALL of those Countries have problems. They are having problems because the Muslim communities are making demands that are contrary to the Civil Law of those Countries.

As a case in point, the 2 main Muslim groups that have made their way to Australia are Sunni and Shia. They cannot live side by side anywhere in the world. They have been at war with each other for centuries. Taking the remainder of the Australian population out of the equation, these 2 minority groups blows multiculturalism out the water.

This is not a muslim bash by me. It is trying, once again to keep on topic. If it was ANY other minority group, I would be saying the same things.

The anti immigrant immigrant strikes again, hating multiculturalism despite living in Thailand maintaining his own language and culture from back home.

Again, those who blow hardest are the biggest hypocrites.

Having previously explained my position, having done so again today. The question really should be, what does that statement say about you ?

Keep looking in the mirror, you will find the answer.

Yet again trying to keep it on topic.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-depth/terror/neighbour-surprised-nice-guy-arrested-in-melbourne-terror-raid/story-fnpdbcmu-1227074898632?nk=0ec868fbdfa68e827dfc4859456c417b

Why are nice guys getting arrested in terror raids ?

Quite obvious really. A Thai pointing out the hypocrisy of an anti-immigrant immigrant who does not integrate and assimilate into Thailand. Not difficult to interpret the meaning or the intent. Nothing much either to use as an attack on someone.

[Tep]

Yes, Australia has had waves of immigrants over many years, Greeks, Italians, Lebanese, Vietnamese, Chinese, Eastern Europeans etc, but all of these groups shared many things with Australian culture already. A love of wine (or beer), music, dancing, freedom of speech and expression in art, movies, literature etc, going to the beach, ie, a very liberal way of thinking and behaving. Whereas muslims in general, come from very repressed societies where none of these things are permitted or accepted. In fact, polar opposites to everything Australia stands for.

I don't think I agree with you on this Giddyup. Were you around in the late 70's when the Vietnamese came. A whole lot of them were shipped off to makeshift camps in my state. The noise about these boat people was quite deafening. Lots of attacks - actual physical attacks and overt racism. But look a generation ahead about the contribution they have made to Australia. They and other immigrants maintain their identity. There is still ghettoisation but some have moved to the suburbs and have the quarter acre plot and hills hoist.

Look ahead to the Afghan and other muslim immigrants. Similar hysteria bout the boats. Similar fear of their strangeness, not just the religious angle. If I and others are correct in our belief in Australian multiculturalism, then a generation ahead then they will have adapted to us and we will also have adapted to them. Not assimilation. Maybe integration is ok to use but they will have an identity that is part where they came from and part where they are now.

So save this and look at it in 50 years assuming the haters haven't poisoned the whole thing by then and turned us into some armed camp of purists.

The same experience with the other groups. Australia is changing all the time and we should work hard to make sure the change is for the better.

[Tep]

I'm not the one quoting white Australia apologists.

But again, your lack of understanding of Australia is palpable.

Multiculturalism has been around since the post war periods. We've has waves of migrants, including former axis power enemies, Vietnamese, and a host of other nations with historical passions largely set aside when they reach Australia.

It works and has done since the mid 1940s. If this isn't a track record enough for you, then I don't know what is. People move to Australia for the most part to put that stuff behind them, at the same time brining elements of their language and culture which has enriched the place, turning it from a British outpost to one of the most dynamic countries in the world, one I might add that thousands of Brits every year dream of moving to.

Hard to understand for people perhaps who can't sit side by side at the football if they don't support the same team, but we do it and we do it well.

The words immigration and multiculturalism are not dirty words in the Australian lexicon, hard as it is to understand for the misery set.

Mostly off topic as usual.

Full of assumptions as usual.

Australian white apologists because they do not have the same belief as you

Dont give me your opinion, give me evidence that multiculturalism is working in Australia.

Football, what has that go to do with anything.

Just the usual ignore, deny, deflect.

Do most normal Australians want to see this on the streets of Australia ?

The precedent has been set all over Europe. Australia will be no different unless it acts swiftly and decisively.

You are presented with opinion from an actual Australian with experience and knowledge of Australian society and culture with the added benefit of direct experience of multiculturalism and binationalism. In your ignorance of anything about Australia you dismiss this and prefer googled garbage to be presented as so called evidence. Listen to what Australians are telling you. Stop your fear mongering. We have nothing to learn from you.

You want to see multiculturalism in Australia then get of you arse and go look. Go to a footy match and maybe you will understand the reference.

[Tep]

Do a Google search and see how much Australia spends each year on Aboriginal housing, education, medical, welfare etc. All we can do is try and right the wrongs of the past. Or are you suggesting that all non-indigenous Australians pack their bags and find somewhere else to live? You have brought up the Aboriginal situation previously without know a damn thing about the real issues.

I used to know the figures as I used to work in this area but that was a while ago. I have seen the integrationist approach fail and then governments moved to the separationist approach in the 70's including handing back a huge amount of land for Aboriginal communities to try and be established and run themselves. They call these 'homeland communities'. The problem is that together with these various approaches is the issue of money/funding. I believe that the current approach is failing to reach key outcomes because of the dependency culture created by the funding processes and objectives. In the same way that Australia and other donors have ruined economies in the Pacific through the creation of a cargo-cult mentality, these same issues are being seen in how the Federal Government deals with Aboriginal people. This is made more complicated by the fact that most administrators of Aboriginal programs now are those Aboriginal people from the stolen generation. Their white experience has given them tertiary education and the ability to move in the white world which actually hinders their ability to work with homelands communities.

So I am actually probably very right wing in an over generalised sense on this issue. The ideas of the late Helen Hughes are quite appealing to me. She advocated removing all funding from the Pacific and for economic development there to be on a free market basis promoting the involvement of the private sector and reducing the role of the government sector, implementing strong and robust legal and regulatory frameworks for things like land titles, contracting and dispute management. All the stuff that created successful developed economies. She points out that Korea and Singapore were on a dependency track in the 50's and 60's until they got off this and introduced what some might call capitalism. In the latter pard of her life she started to look at the application of these ideas to Australian Aboriginal issues.

The issue is quite complex. I could relate a bunch of stuff that I experienced in working with homeland communities and with the then leaders of the Aboriginal programs and what worked and what didn't. All that money, billions of dollars and still these communities had third world health standards. Federal programs would build new houses in these communities and the first act of the new owner would be to light a fire on the lounge room floor to cook dinner. At public meetings I would be told by elders that they don't want the white education. All they wanted was to learn enough to fill in the forms for funding. Listenging to elders who say that they have visits from around 400 agencies in a year. There were times that we were held up in our vehicles and not allowed to enter a community because there were other agencies in front of us meeting the elders and we had to wait our turn.

I don't think money is or can solve the problem. Certainly not in isolation.

[samran]

I'm not the one quoting white Australia apologists.

But again, your lack of understanding of Australia is palpable.

Multiculturalism has been around since the post war periods. We've has waves of migrants, including former axis power enemies, Vietnamese, and a host of other nations with historical passions largely set aside when they reach Australia.

It works and has done since the mid 1940s. If this isn't a track record enough for you, then I don't know what is. People move to Australia for the most part to put that stuff behind them, at the same time brining elements of their language and culture which has enriched the place, turning it from a British outpost to one of the most dynamic countries in the world, one I might add that thousands of Brits every year dream of moving to.

Hard to understand for people perhaps who can't sit side by side at the football if they don't support the same team, but we do it and we do it well.

The words immigration and multiculturalism are not dirty words in the Australian lexicon, hard as it is to understand for the misery set.

Mostly off topic as usual.

Full of assumptions as usual.

Australian white apologists because they do not have the same belief as you

Dont give me your opinion, give me evidence that multiculturalism is working in Australia.

Football, what has that go to do with anything.

Just the usual ignore, deny, deflect.

Do most normal Australians want to see this on the streets of Australia ?

The precedent has been set all over Europe. Australia will be no different unless it acts swiftly and decisively.

You are presented with opinion from an actual Australian with experience and knowledge of Australian society and culture with the added benefit of direct experience of multiculturalism and binationalism. In your ignorance of anything about Australia you dismiss this and prefer googled garbage to be presented as so called evidence. Listen to what Australians are telling you. Stop your fear mongering. We have nothing to learn from you.

You want to see multiculturalism in Australia then get of you arse and go look. Go to a footy match and maybe you will understand the reference.

Leave him be Tep. He's doing the jihadis work for them. I can see he revels in it. Isis must be paying him well.

That he missed the point about the footy, one of the most quintessential Australian things to do on the weekend, clearly shows he knows nothing about the place and never will.

[Tep]

they want to criticize what happened 100 years ago

@ giddyup

Certainly no intention of getting dragged into a 100 year old debate. When very few people are still alive and even less having the marbles to remember it.

I found this article, it is just over a year old. Although it is written by an american, what are your thoughts on it ?

And Muslims have been claiming that the Aborigines were Muslims all along who need to revert. The actual story is written through a predictably snide liberal lens. Of course.

Speaking to ABC Western Queensland, Rise Up Australia candidate Pam Hecht said the biggest issue facing people in the electorate of Kennedy, which Bob Katter holds by 18.3 per cent, was the conversion of Indigenous people to Islam.

“I don’t know whether people are aware, but many of the Aboriginal people in northern Australia are being targeted by Muslims and in some cases are being paid to convert to Islam,” she said, describing herself and the electorate as “farmers … just ordinary everyday people”, who “want to be free to go about our business”.

“Our concern with that is, the Muslim belief, that converting the first peoples of the land to Islam means that the land belongs to Allah, and Islam should be the only religion.

“There is an Aboriginal lady who works with the people up in northern Australia and she has spoken directly with the leader of our party, Daniel Nalliah [and told him about the practice].”

There does appear to be a number of Aborigines converting to Islam. In your opinion, does this article appear to contain the truth or is it pie in the sky ?

http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/muslims-paying-australian-aborigines-to-convert-to-islam/

There is direct evidence in both the text that you quote and yor comment that you know absolutely nothing about the issue of Australian Aboriginal people. It is staring the reader right in the face. Anyone who has any knowledge of and sensitivity towards the issues would not make such a rookie mistake. It is what was happening 30 years ago.

You have nothing to contribute on this issue as you have no idea about Australian culture and society and particularly not Australian Aboriginal culture. Your anti-multiculturalism dogma just inflames the issue. Ignorance is no excuse.

[Tep]

As expected a touchy (and for some embarrassing) subject with the usual, look how much we spend on these people and you don't know anything about it response, Why not tell us how much you do spend, and why it does not work? When are Australians going to accept aboriginals as equals?

I am calling you out on this. You clearly have no intention of any serious examination of issues. You are just picking at an old and still running sore in Australian society.

I have no problem owning that we have serious and real issues about the past and present treatment of Aboriginal people. We don't need your unhelpful barracking. You just want to be provocative.

Exposing this issue does not embarrass me at all. That would be the view of a small minded school yard bully so I pass back to you to see if that shoe fits.

[samran]

As expected a touchy (and for some embarrassing) subject with the usual, look how much we spend on these people and you don't know anything about it response, Why not tell us how much you do spend, and why it does not work? When are Australians going to accept aboriginals as equals?

I am calling you out on this. You clearly have no intention of any serious examination of issues. You are just picking at an old and still running sore in Australian society.

I have no problem owning that we have serious and real issues about the past and present treatment of Aboriginal people. We don't need your unhelpful barracking. You just want to be provocative.

Exposing this issue does not embarrass me at all. That would be the view of a small minded school yard bully so I pass back to you to see if that shoe fits.

Not surprising.

A recent tactic by the far right has has been to invoke gay rights to support the anti Muslim line. You know, cause Muslims don't like homosexuals.

That he bought up aboriginal disadvantage and historical wrongs was a desperate attempt. But out jacky boy ain't too bright. Suspect the 54 in his nic represents his IQ.

[JockPieandBeans]

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaun

Read it and weep

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3913/uk-muslim-prison-population

It must be hard being a muslim and no sane person agrees with you

[samran]

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaun

Read it and weep

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3913/uk-muslim-prison-population

It must be hard being a muslim and no sane person agrees with you

You know how to use google and post a link. Well done, your mum must be so proud.

[Tep]

Sending links to his prison fantasies now. Sorry don't have that fetish. Nothing to do with Oz as usual.

[JockPieandBeans]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVarDMOXJ-s

A message from France. Here is a look at your future Australia.

[JockPieandBeans]

Oh wait. its already happening in Australia.

[samran]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVarDMOXJ-s

A message from France. Here is a look at your future Australia.

Wow, you know how to post video links too? Double gold stars for jihad jock.

Not sure Australians are going to be good at converting to French but...

[transam]

Oh wait. its already happening in Australia.

And folk here say there is no problem.............

[JockPieandBeans]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVarDMOXJ-s

A message from France. Here is a look at your future Australia.

Wow, you know how to post video links too? Double gold stars for jihad jock.

Not sure Australians are going to be good at converting to French but...

There conversion to French is immaterial. Actions speak louder than words.

[transam]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVarDMOXJ-s

A message from France. Here is a look at your future Australia.

Wow, you know how to post video links too? Double gold stars for jihad jock.

Not sure Australians are going to be good at converting to French but...

You are so blind I can't find words, except laugh at your denial..........

[JockPieandBeans]

maybe you would like to hear from some Aussies

Not enough to rubbish someone's idea unless you have a better one mate,

unless of course you want more refuges to come live next door to you perhaps?

the refuges will never stop coming unless they will know that they will not

be settled in Australia no matter what, thanks to the previous dickheads governments

that all those jetsam and flotsam of quality people come in to Oz willy nilly..

and what we get now? jihadist and ISIS disciples in our midst..

Who cares they are not refugees any way , The UN is all about the UN , Australia is full we have so many migrants if you visited the country you would think you were in the middle east , or India or China, Multiculturalism simply does not work.

This 'asylum' bullshit needs to end, everyone knows that at least 99.5% of 'asylum seekers' are liars who are really just economic immigrants, they want to come to Australia illegally w/o going thru the proper immigration channels so they can live and work there.. they are illegal immigrants..the Iran, China, Pakistan, Indonesia, whatever are not going to torture and jail these people because of their 'politics' if the human traffickers fail in their mission.

If you really are a political dissident or fleeing religious persection then you would have ample evidence of such, instead these people just show up and 'say' they are being persecuted with nothing to back it up.. in places like Iraq,Syria, Sudan, Myanmar where people really have fled violence and persecution these people wind up in border UN administered refugee camps, they don't buy plane tickets and get on boats to travel all the way to europe or australia. If europe and Australia DO take people like that in then they are just helping the ethnic cleansers achieve their goal. Arab countries that host Palestinian refugee camps have always said that they will not give rights to palestinian refugees specifically for this reason.. so why should Australia help racist ethnic cleansers in Myanmar by accepting the Rohghya, doing that will encourage more ethnic cleansing as developing countries all over the world just dump their unwanted 'inferior' ethnic groups in Australia.

why is t always a 'white' western country that has to take everyone's refugees? why not dump them in Brazil or Ecuador or Morocco..why do they always have to go half-way around the world to 'escape from persecution' the logic of the westren 'liberals' that advocate allowing them in is that//.."well, all those non-white countries are savages anyways.. so these people would be just as abused in Ghana as they would in Myanmar"..it's bullshit but that's literally the way western liberals think.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/764647-united-nations-lukewarm-on-tony-abbotts-cambodia-solution/

They speak the truth or are they all racist bigoted liars too ?

[samran]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVarDMOXJ-s

A message from France. Here is a look at your future Australia.

Wow, you know how to post video links too? Double gold stars for jihad jock.

Not sure Australians are going to be good at converting to French but...

You are so blind I can't find words, except laugh at your denial..........

Blind to nothing mate. Just not an hysterical pansy girl.

One wonders how you make the link between this and a denialist.

Best you stay away from jihad jock though mate. These Isis people are good at social media. He's one of them.

[JockPieandBeans]

You are so blind I can't find words, except laugh at your denial..........

There is only one denial.

The denial from Muslims.

You may not like it, but the world has cottoned on, including Australia, that is why they have just introduced new terrorist laws.