Koh Tao - 'Killers will be caught'

[phanangpete]

Whats really concerning , and not mentioned much-

Is that these killers have demonstrated a murderous , lunatic hatred of westerners , and are walking free amongst the community.

The chances are they are crazed and blood lusting for more blond girls on Thai beaches to rape and murder.

And before this is dismissed as sensational propaganda -

I remind the reader that where horrific murder and rape is committed in the most violent manner (e.g. smashing in a face with full force )

When the perpetrator(s) is not caught .

In 40% of cases a further crime similar within 24 months is committed by the same offender(s)

In other words this might not be a One off.

This sounds fairly logical for a Country like this, i have travelled to the islands for nearly ten years now and every few months hear about another serious crime against tourists .

Recently i heard about a Thai tattooist, who a few years ago murdered a German girl on the beach by bashing her head on rocks, this was on Koh Phangan.

It was over jealousy and he had deliberately taken her to the beach, so premeditated, to carry out this murder.

He was caught easily and sentenced, but appeared back on the island after only serving two years.

After some months he left with his thai girlfriend to live in Phuket, thats two months ago.

So many of them walk amongst us and if your a tourist your girlfriend could be getting a tattoo from him.

As has been said on tv many times, one law for them and another for farang.

[garyinhuahin]

At least this DNA thing has kept any innocents from being pegged with this heinous crime. That's something.

[MJP]

At least this DNA thing has kept any innocents from being pegged with this heinous crime. That's something.

That really is something. I wonder if the forensics lab was talking directly to the media?

[Bleacher Bum East]

All reported 'evidence' has led police to the admission that the murders were carried out by possibly a group of men. If they were locals, the grapevine would have helped them round up the suspects. It is also not in the interest of the locals to destroy income and a reasonable life-style, by 'hiding' the perps. So I find the premise that Koh Tao locals were involved is unlikely.

On that assumption, and according to the report, other islands are being investigated on the premise that groups come over to join in the all-night party and leave on the first boat back. Not uncommon - but in this instance it all ended tragically for whatever reason that sparked off the violence. And if that is the reality, the Koh Tao elite would ensure that their police are given as much 'evidence' without incriminating themselves for reprisals.

If there is a plus in this investigation it would be far more difficult to 'hide' several perps from talkative tongues than one guy, which leads me to conclude that a police result will occur.

While I may be way off the mark, I sincerely hope that these murderers are caught and punished asap.

Interesting thoughts Stephen, but your logic in regarding the locals is a little flawed. Those belonging to well connected, HiSo, elite, local power families have a habit of getting away with murder, literally. Many have managed to avoid charges of murder or manslaughter whilst those convicted have received incredibly lenient sentences. This includes Thai on Thai where the desire to catch and punish is higher, and includes the killing of and by RTP members. There are plenty of examples you can research easily. In some cases you will see there were very definite attempts not to progress inquiries in some directions or soften the charges.

For this reason, I disagree with your proposition that it is unlikely that locals are involved.

It could just as easily have been tourists on the island or those just coming for the party, as you say; or migrant workers. The fact is no one group should be ruled out but the police seem to be ignoring the local community. Perhaps they agree with your proposition.

I met a very influential long time good Thai friend yesterday. She said senior police she knows told her that it was definitely foreigners who were responsible, and again made reference to the low morals and bad behavior generally expected of and associated with foreigners. An interesting mind set, and far from open.

I agree with Baerboxer.

Stephen I think it is not so much that your logic is flawed, because we would expect most people to think as you described. But in Thailand many people don't think that way, especially those in power of whatever form. In their minds, revealing the perpetrators as one of their own would do much more damage (not just economic--in fact, primarily non-economic) than an unsolved murder. First of all, face is everything here . . . and everybody on the island loses faces in the most extreme fashion if this is one of their own. Second, as Baerboxer points out, people up the hierarchy are almost always protected--and if one is not protected now, then the others worry they will not be in the future as well. And third, revealing who did this could set off another round of retribution that could end with more "intra-island" murders of the same heinousness.

So in my opinion, the fact that nobody has come forward publicly with any information about what happened in the bar actually indicates that someone is being protected, and word on the island is don't get involved.

Again, it could be a local, a farang, a migrant worker, a fisherman, or someone from another island ... but the nature of the crime and everything that has happened afterward in my mind puts a local as the most likely. Who knows, maybe the local "godfathers" on KhoTao will handle it with a local form of justice for all the damage already caused.

PS On the economic front, if this does turn out to be a local, it may give the military an excuse to basically come in and "take over" Kho Tao, in which case all the local hotel and restaurant and other "business owners" would lose out, They may be worried about this as well. And it may happen in any event.

Edited September 19, 2014 by Bleacher Bum East

[ChrisY1]

This is going to be a double wammy for Thailand. It's going to damage tourism and it will (yet again) embarrass and shame the police force here. It's well known they can't protect tourists from violence, but it makes it 10 times worse that they can't investigate a crime properly.

I'm not so aure that the tourism sector will collapse due to this crime......and I'm certain that the RTP don't give a fig about their reputation.....

There must be literally hundreds of crimes, including murder, that have never been solved.....

[Fred Flinstone]

Quote

I met a very influential long time good Thai friend yesterday. She said senior police she knows told her that it was definitely foreigners who were responsible, and again made reference to the low morals and bad behavior generally expected of and associated with foreigners. An interesting mind set, and far from open.

UN Quote

This sums up what is becoming an obvious cover up attempt

[mojorison]

All reported 'evidence' has led police to the admission that the murders were carried out by possibly a group of men. If they were locals, the grapevine would have helped them round up the suspects. It is also not in the interest of the locals to destroy income and a reasonable life-style, by 'hiding' the perps. So I find the premise that Koh Tao locals were involved is unlikely.

On that assumption, and according to the report, other islands are being investigated on the premise that groups come over to join in the all-night party and leave on the first boat back. Not uncommon - but in this instance it all ended tragically for whatever reason that sparked off the violence. And if that is the reality, the Koh Tao elite would ensure that their police are given as much 'evidence' without incriminating themselves for reprisals.

If there is a plus in this investigation it would be far more difficult to 'hide' several perps from talkative tongues than one guy, which leads me to conclude that a police result will occur.

While I may be way off the mark, I sincerely hope that these murderers are caught and punished asap.

Interesting thoughts Stephen, but your logic in regarding the locals is a little flawed. Those belonging to well connected, HiSo, elite, local power families have a habit of getting away with murder, literally. Many have managed to avoid charges of murder or manslaughter whilst those convicted have received incredibly lenient sentences. This includes Thai on Thai where the desire to catch and punish is higher, and includes the killing of and by RTP members. There are plenty of examples you can research easily. In some cases you will see there were very definite attempts not to progress inquiries in some directions or soften the charges.

For this reason, I disagree with your proposition that it is unlikely that locals are involved.

It could just as easily have been tourists on the island or those just coming for the party, as you say; or migrant workers. The fact is no one group should be ruled out but the police seem to be ignoring the local community. Perhaps they agree with your proposition.

I met a very influential long time good Thai friend yesterday. She said senior police she knows told her that it was definitely foreigners who were responsible, and again made reference to the low morals and bad behavior generally expected of and associated with foreigners. An interesting mind set, and far from open.

I agree with Baerboxer.

Stephen I think it is not so much that your logic is flawed, because we would expect most people to think as you described. But in Thailand many people don't think that way, especially those in power of whatever form. In their minds, revealing the perpetrators as one of their own would do much more damage (not just economic--in fact, primarily non-economic) than an unsolved murder. First of all, face is everything here . . . and everybody on the island loses faces in the most extreme fashion if this is one of their own. Second, as Baerboxer points out, people up the hierarchy are almost always protected--and if one is not protected now, then the others worry they will not be in the future as well. And third, revealing who did this could set off another round of retribution that could end with more "intra-island" murders of the same heinousness.

So in my opinion, the fact that nobody has come forward publicly with any information about what happened in the bar actually indicates that someone is being protected, and word on the island is don't get involved.

Again, it could be a local, a farang, a migrant worker, a fisherman, or someone from another island ... but the nature of the crime and everything that has happened afterward in my mind puts a local as the most likely. Who knows, maybe the local "godfathers" on KhoTao will handle it with a local form of justice for all the damage already caused.

PS On the economic front, if this does turn out to be a local, it may give the military an excuse to basically come in and "take over" Kho Tao, in which case all the local hotel and restaurant and other "business owners" would lose out, They may be worried about this as well. And it may happen in any event.

Think you're reading this wrong. The local owners, whilst capable of doing bad things and getting away with "murder"... this is not the type of crime that we are talking about. They generally don't hang out in their own bars getting high and bludgeoning and raping customers. I know these people, the bar and resort owners, and they are far removed from the slime that work in their bars and resorts. Regarding getting away with crime, this is exactly the kind of case where justice will need to have been seen.... from a local and international standpoint. Your logic is flawed if you believe that a local persons death carries more weight than that of a tourist... that is plain wrong, in fact it is the opposite. And regarding your friend in "high places" they obviously have not ever been abroad, so I question there "high status"... she is a twerp. Time will tell, but I am not expecting any surprises. FWIW a key member of the Democrats is the son-in-law of the "legal rights holders" of the full moon party on Koh Phangan. He was also Suthep's right hand man in the south, before Suthep entered the priesthood.

[wow64]

At least this DNA thing has kept any innocents from being pegged with this heinous crime. That's something.

That really is something. I wonder if the forensics lab was talking directly to the media?

There is no way the lab was talking to the media..

The guy doing the autopsy is a journalist.

[Bleacher Bum East]

All reported 'evidence' has led police to the admission that the murders were carried out by possibly a group of men. If they were locals, the grapevine would have helped them round up the suspects. It is also not in the interest of the locals to destroy income and a reasonable life-style, by 'hiding' the perps. So I find the premise that Koh Tao locals were involved is unlikely.

On that assumption, and according to the report, other islands are being investigated on the premise that groups come over to join in the all-night party and leave on the first boat back. Not uncommon - but in this instance it all ended tragically for whatever reason that sparked off the violence. And if that is the reality, the Koh Tao elite would ensure that their police are given as much 'evidence' without incriminating themselves for reprisals.

If there is a plus in this investigation it would be far more difficult to 'hide' several perps from talkative tongues than one guy, which leads me to conclude that a police result will occur.

While I may be way off the mark, I sincerely hope that these murderers are caught and punished asap.

Interesting thoughts Stephen, but your logic in regarding the locals is a little flawed. Those belonging to well connected, HiSo, elite, local power families have a habit of getting away with murder, literally. Many have managed to avoid charges of murder or manslaughter whilst those convicted have received incredibly lenient sentences. This includes Thai on Thai where the desire to catch and punish is higher, and includes the killing of and by RTP members. There are plenty of examples you can research easily. In some cases you will see there were very definite attempts not to progress inquiries in some directions or soften the charges.

For this reason, I disagree with your proposition that it is unlikely that locals are involved.

It could just as easily have been tourists on the island or those just coming for the party, as you say; or migrant workers. The fact is no one group should be ruled out but the police seem to be ignoring the local community. Perhaps they agree with your proposition.

I met a very influential long time good Thai friend yesterday. She said senior police she knows told her that it was definitely foreigners who were responsible, and again made reference to the low morals and bad behavior generally expected of and associated with foreigners. An interesting mind set, and far from open.

I agree with Baerboxer.

Stephen I think it is not so much that your logic is flawed, because we would expect most people to think as you described. But in Thailand many people don't think that way, especially those in power of whatever form. In their minds, revealing the perpetrators as one of their own would do much more damage (not just economic--in fact, primarily non-economic) than an unsolved murder. First of all, face is everything here . . . and everybody on the island loses faces in the most extreme fashion if this is one of their own. Second, as Baerboxer points out, people up the hierarchy are almost always protected--and if one is not protected now, then the others worry they will not be in the future as well. And third, revealing who did this could set off another round of retribution that could end with more "intra-island" murders of the same heinousness.

So in my opinion, the fact that nobody has come forward publicly with any information about what happened in the bar actually indicates that someone is being protected, and word on the island is don't get involved.

Again, it could be a local, a farang, a migrant worker, a fisherman, or someone from another island ... but the nature of the crime and everything that has happened afterward in my mind puts a local as the most likely. Who knows, maybe the local "godfathers" on KhoTao will handle it with a local form of justice for all the damage already caused.

PS On the economic front, if this does turn out to be a local, it may give the military an excuse to basically come in and "take over" Kho Tao, in which case all the local hotel and restaurant and other "business owners" would lose out, They may be worried about this as well. And it may happen in any event.

Think you're reading this wrong. The local owners, whilst capable of doing bad things and getting away with "murder"... this is not the type of crime that we are talking about. They generally don't hang out in their own bars getting high and bludgeoning and raping customers. I know these people, the bar and resort owners, and they are far removed from the slime that work in their bars and resorts. Regarding getting away with crime, this is exactly the kind of case where justice will need to have been seen.... from a local and international standpoint. Your logic is flawed if you believe that a local persons death carries more weight than that of a tourist... that is plain wrong, in fact it is the opposite. And regarding your friend in "high places" they obviously have not ever been abroad, so I question there "high status"... she is a twerp. Time will tell, but I am not expecting any surprises. FWIW a key member of the Democrats is the son-in-law of the "legal rights holders" of the full moon party on Koh Phangan. He was also Suthep's right hand man in the south, before Suthep entered the priesthood.

On my end:

I agree that in this case the death of a tourist carries more weight than an average local. If it had been a local who was not prominent in some form, then the spotlight would not be shining near as brightly, if at all, on the island community or the police or the country.

I also agree that it was probably not one of the local big-shots who committed the crime. As you say, they wouldn't often be hanging out in their own bars and wouldn't get their hands dirty on this way. If they wanted it done, they'd have somebody do it for them.

But it could have been a local Thai who either worked for a big-shot or was connected to one in some way, by blood or friendship or otherwise. For example, someone who was a lower level "manager" of one of the island mafia's various enterprises, or even lower than that. In that case, I personally believe that everything I said in my last reply would likely hold true. (And this may be the case even if it was an unconnected Thai national simply living and working on the island for one of the hotels or bars--this for the reasons I said in my last reply as well).

You sound like you're speaking with first-hand knowledge of the islands, and I am not. My first-hand knowledge is only from a dozen years in Thailand and having gotten around quite a bit in that time. We'll see how it plays out. I hope you are right, because then it would be more likely the killer is exposed and brought to public justice.

Edited September 19, 2014 by Bleacher Bum East

[stephen terry]

All reported 'evidence' has led police to the admission that the murders were carried out by possibly a group of men. If they were locals, the grapevine would have helped them round up the suspects. It is also not in the interest of the locals to destroy income and a reasonable life-style, by 'hiding' the perps. So I find the premise that Koh Tao locals were involved is unlikely.

On that assumption, and according to the report, other islands are being investigated on the premise that groups come over to join in the all-night party and leave on the first boat back. Not uncommon - but in this instance it all ended tragically for whatever reason that sparked off the violence. And if that is the reality, the Koh Tao elite would ensure that their police are given as much 'evidence' without incriminating themselves for reprisals.

If there is a plus in this investigation it would be far more difficult to 'hide' several perps from talkative tongues than one guy, which leads me to conclude that a police result will occur.

While I may be way off the mark, I sincerely hope that these murderers are caught and punished asap.

Interesting thoughts Stephen, but your logic in regarding the locals is a little flawed. Those belonging to well connected, HiSo, elite, local power families have a habit of getting away with murder, literally. Many have managed to avoid charges of murder or manslaughter whilst those convicted have received incredibly lenient sentences. This includes Thai on Thai where the desire to catch and punish is higher, and includes the killing of and by RTP members. There are plenty of examples you can research easily. In some cases you will see there were very definite attempts not to progress inquiries in some directions or soften the charges.

For this reason, I disagree with your proposition that it is unlikely that locals are involved.

It could just as easily have been tourists on the island or those just coming for the party, as you say; or migrant workers. The fact is no one group should be ruled out but the police seem to be ignoring the local community. Perhaps they agree with your proposition.

I met a very influential long time good Thai friend yesterday. She said senior police she knows told her that it was definitely foreigners who were responsible, and again made reference to the low morals and bad behavior generally expected of and associated with foreigners. An interesting mind set, and far from open.

I agree with Baerboxer.

Stephen I think it is not so much that your logic is flawed, because we would expect most people to think as you described. But in Thailand many people don't think that way, especially those in power of whatever form. In their minds, revealing the perpetrators as one of their own would do much more damage (not just economic--in fact, primarily non-economic) than an unsolved murder. First of all, face is everything here . . . and everybody on the island loses faces in the most extreme fashion if this is one of their own. Second, as Baerboxer points out, people up the hierarchy are almost always protected--and if one is not protected now, then the others worry they will not be in the future as well. And third, revealing who did this could set off another round of retribution that could end with more "intra-island" murders of the same heinousness.

So in my opinion, the fact that nobody has come forward publicly with any information about what happened in the bar actually indicates that someone is being protected, and word on the island is don't get involved.

Again, it could be a local, a farang, a migrant worker, a fisherman, or someone from another island ... but the nature of the crime and everything that has happened afterward in my mind puts a local as the most likely. Who knows, maybe the local "godfathers" on KhoTao will handle it with a local form of justice for all the damage already caused.

PS On the economic front, if this does turn out to be a local, it may give the military an excuse to basically come in and "take over" Kho Tao, in which case all the local hotel and restaurant and other "business owners" would lose out, They may be worried about this as well. And it may happen in any event.

Think you're reading this wrong. The local owners, whilst capable of doing bad things and getting away with "murder"... this is not the type of crime that we are talking about. They generally don't hang out in their own bars getting high and bludgeoning and raping customers. I know these people, the bar and resort owners, and they are far removed from the slime that work in their bars and resorts. Regarding getting away with crime, this is exactly the kind of case where justice will need to have been seen.... from a local and international standpoint. Your logic is flawed if you believe that a local persons death carries more weight than that of a tourist... that is plain wrong, in fact it is the opposite. And regarding your friend in "high places" they obviously have not ever been abroad, so I question there "high status"... she is a twerp. Time will tell, but I am not expecting any surprises. FWIW a key member of the Democrats is the son-in-law of the "legal rights holders" of the full moon party on Koh Phangan. He was also Suthep's right hand man in the south, before Suthep entered the priesthood.

As I stated above, the police have revealed that several people were involved, so we're not talking about the locals protecting one elite man, but at least two, maybe more. That is far harder to conceal, and IMO, unlikely. And despite unconfirmed reports that one Thai person had an altercation in the bar with the victims, another motive could have been opportunist robbery, which is just as much a likely scenario.

But thank you all for your responses - I am very much aware of the face-saving and concealment factors, but in this crime, we're not talking about protecting one person, are we?

[WhamBam]

On reflection I can see many people being very wary of making plans to come to Thailand, especially while this double murder is in the headlines. Linked to the other murders of foreigners that have been highlighted and not forgotten by many members here it shows the basic ineptitude of the RTP in handling cases like this. Be that down to corruption, actual ineptitude, the fact it is foreigners who are murdered or whatever.

There should be some sort of National murder squad or at least a squad that deals with high profile cases AND that they are independent AND above corruption at local or national level. Maybe that would get better results.

[waynethor]

Can anybody argue that the police have completely botched this investigation? It's pretty clear that there are no set procedures to follow and they just play it by ear every time a murder happens. I'm pretty sure that other police forces around the world have established good and solid methods to use when going about a murder investigation, and I bet they would be very happy to train the Thai police in those matters. Unfortunately, Thais have been convinced for so long that they are the superior beings of the universe, there is no way their egos would allow that. Besides, admitting that they could learn something valuable from lowly farangs would be an unthinkable loss of face to them.

[MJP]

Can anybody argue that the police have completely botched this investigation? It's pretty clear that there are no set procedures to follow and they just play it by ear every time a murder happens. I'm pretty sure that other police forces around the world have established good and solid methods to use when going about a murder investigation, and I bet they would be very happy to train the Thai police in those matters. Unfortunately, Thais have been convinced for so long that they are the superior beings of the universe, there is no way their egos would allow that. Besides, admitting that they could learn something valuable from lowly farangs would be an unthinkable loss of face to them.

No, no. The Standard Operating Procedures are clearly written on the back of the playing cards.

[PaPiPuPePo]

another motive could have been opportunist robbery, which is just as much a likely scenario.

But apparently nothing was stolen from the victims.

This wasn't just a murder, it was an extremely brutal one. I'd think someone would have to be whacked out on yabaa and/or extremely worked up plus be a psycho or cold-blooded killer with blood on their hands to bash in that poor girl's face.

And whether intended as such or not it sends a chilling message to other foreigners, not the first time but the message is clear: we will kill you like a pig without needing much reason to do so.

[ScotBkk]

People need to take onboard this was not your run of the mill murder. This was extermination at the cruelest level. The investigation is pure and simply a disgraceful sham or an act adopted to purposely deceive.

1) Why has nobody been arrested who confronted David in the Bar when protecting the girl?

2) Why has not everyone who was on this island who fits into what could be perceived as a perfect candidate not had a DNA test?

3) Why was the crime scene not cornered off and allowed to become an open day at the circus?

4) Why have they not pulled in all the male smokers?

5) Why has their phones (and everyone Else's) not been tracked to see which way the went on this dreadful evening?

6) Why has not one solitary soul given information as to who they were talking with that night and especially proceeding them leaving the bar?

The list goes on and on ..........

Edited September 19, 2014 by ScotBkk

[Mackie]

People need to take onboard this was not your run of the mill murder. This was extermination at the cruelest level. The investigation is pure and simply a disgraceful sham or an act adopted to purposely deceive.

1) Why has nobody been arrested who confronted David in the Bar when protecting the girl?

2) Why has not everyone who was on this island who fits into what could be perceived as a perfect candidate not had a DNA test?

3) Why was the crime scene not cornered off and allowed to become an open day at the circus?

4) Why have they not pulled in all the male smokers?

5) Why has their phones not been tracked to see which way the went on this dreadful evening?

6) Why has not one solitary soul given information as to who they were talking with that night and especially proceeding them leaving the bar?

The list goes on and on ..........

Too many whys. Thais cannot handle it. One why at a time. Anyway, the most likely answer you would get is TIT. This is Thailand. Things are done differently. However this case is not going to be swept under the rug. Eventually someone will have to be charged with the murder.

[ScotBkk]

Keys stuck

Edited September 19, 2014 by ScotBkk

[jpeg]

How many threads do we need on this?

Is 1 not satisfactory or do wee need a fresh one every day with a different title?

Mo' hitz

[jpeg]

It's not simply the case of what happened here, nor this third world country's laughable 'police force's' ineptitude, but the authorities' reaction to it - 'can't be a Thai/farang at fault' which is the hat trick which would put anyone off vacationing here. Fact. And rightly so IMO.

Edited September 19, 2014 by jpeg

[retarius]

Seems that the BIB have rules out any possibility that a Thai national did it.

[Pi Sek]

Quote

I met a very influential long time good Thai friend yesterday. She said senior police she knows told her that it was definitely foreigners who were responsible, and again made reference to the low morals and bad behavior generally expected of and associated with foreigners. An interesting mind set, and far from open.

UN Quote

This sums up what is becoming an obvious cover up attempt

Maybe so.

However, I also have heard from a fairly high level official, this time in the Forestry Department in Suratthani, that this was a case of farang-on-farang murder. This seems to be doing the rounds in official channels and, when I question it saying there's no proof, there's no competence in the investigation, and this is something that Thailand would prefer to brush under the carpet, all I got was a shrug of the shoulders in typical Thai style.

Personally I think that it could have been anyone - jealous farang guy who had shacked up with a young English girl and wasn't happy that she'd changed bungalows for another guy, or horny Burmese fisherman high on yaba, or a Thai pissed on lao cao who decided he wanted some action and took his opportunity through violent means.

Unfortunately I think the truth will never come out.

[englishoak]

Im afraid in this particular case with all that has gone on from the beginning smacks of more than just incompetance, we hear it so much its like hearing land of smiles... but its not all that it seems.

Over many years I have seen this claim of incompetence and knee jerk accusations and keystone cop pretence over and over. Too often it just seems like an unwillingness to catch anyone. Everyone knows how notoriously corrupt the police are and plenty are well aware of the lengths groups here will go to to protect their own or even face. Ive known/know plenty of police and they arnt so dumb or incompetent as they like to let the urban myth claim. What they nearly all do is take money if they can get away with it and dont do anything outside the chain of command in police work , that chain of command can be another police higher up or their paymaster, or both.

I don't think from the word go there was any immediate serious attempt to get the true culprits of these murders by police during the first 3 - 4 days only a hope to try and pin it on anyone but Thai, in the meantime they await orders, the childish excuse of it could not have been a Thai by that police being just xenophobic I dont buy, its BS , he knows how violent Thias can be especially gangs , he not only said it but also to date they havnt been pulling in any Thai gangs of which there are many and locals know who they are ... WHY ? the islands are crawling with Thai mafia gangs, they arnt hard to find he knows thais capability as much as any other nation hes just stonewalling. ... so to me they have been just wasting time, stonewalling, lying or worse.

It would be hard to mess up a murder enquiry any more than has been done, not securing the crime scene, destroying or contaminating evidence, not restricting access or exit from islands... tampering with evidence found, ignoring Thai national suspects, freezing victims bodies the list goes on and on, keystone cop excuse aside just for once there can only be one other reason........

Time and time again here there are what seems like cover ups stone walling and just downright BS sold as unintentional incompetence by stupid police untrained and clueless.... well I buy that as much as I buy the good old Thai smile.... its sometimes real but as a rule its false.

The police arnt totally stupid but they are very corrupted at ALL levels, they hide behind the stupid mask very well and they are a great buffer for making potential revenue damaging incidents go away for others that pay their bonuses. The police unless its not a Thai have NO incentive or reason to go after Thai suspects if its an incident with a foreigner, not until they have had the nod from higher up. Thai dont go out on their own or a limb and are reluctant without checking with higher up first whether to finger a Thai if its a crime against a foreigner.

They would, being the island police do nothing without consulting those who paid their wages ie bosses . That may mean the influential locals or may mean other police depending, but they will consult with higher up asap. They cant do otherwise they have to live there, same thing with the region chief he HAS to do nothing but look at non Thai until he's had discussion and orders from his bosses. Civilian paymasters or otherwise.

In the meantime the keystone cop routine is played out which tbh seems to be standard practise. This is done to hide what really goes on and has little to do with dumb incompetence.

Likelihood now is its a Gang rather than tourists, either migrant or local or from another local island etc , maybe fishermen. If its mafia then its very unlikely if from outside KT they would be on island without the knowledge and or permission of the local mafia, its too small an island to not see whos arriving or leaving. IMO its multiple killers at least 2 maybe more, likely they will boast out of bravado or use it as a badge of fear.

Someone knows who did this, probably quite a few.

[ScotBkk]

Someone knows who did this, probably quite a few.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Englishoak,

I personally think you’ve summed it up well.

It’s blatantly obvious nobody is going to solve this case until someone at the top demands it. Unless, of course the powers that be felt pressured enough from other Foreign Diplomatic entities that would affect their economy. This is a real scandal that can’t be ignored like all the others in the past - still on file. The toll of murders since 2009 being the grand total of 13 murdered British, would pale into significance, particularly if we were to add all our countrymen and other Farangs from around the world taking involuntary flying lessons off hotel balconies. Or, included other gruesome deaths that are covered up and duly pronounced as suicides that are a complete and utter physical impossibility, given that the way they’ve died it just doesn’t add up.

Since, the very first time I became a tv member in 2005, thought it very strange and terribly suspicious how all these people died in their droves whilst coming on holiday to Thailand. Especially, since it always seemed this was the main place to head for, if you wanted to perform some macabre suicide pact in a better setting. Us Farangs don’t enact out these performances in our own countries. So, why would we do it here whilst on a vacation? Let’s be straight here. It’s total BS.

I get severely annoyed when people say’ why don’t you go home then - if you don’t like it. It has nothing to do with that shit. It’s all about worrying who’s going to be next, like your kids, or people coming on holiday to see you or friends – you name it. Some of us have a lot of commitments in this country and don’t want to be harangued online by some old farts with such cynical views. It’s really just them openly portraying a disgusting attitude and should curb this annoying line. Thais are never going to change overnight or maybe even never. We can all give out the figures on murders, rapes, assaults in other countries to try to explicate or explain the similarities. Nonetheless, can anyone honestly say that all these attacks on Farangs are just the norm? In our own countries, nobody would get away with all these atrocities so easily, no matter how well off these people were or acknowledged as untouchables. These people need to be brought into the open arena and be judged in the courts of law and imprisoned albeit sentencing for protecting their siblings, friends or acquaintances or committing heinous crimes.

How dare anyone rape or kill our children.

Let’s sick back now and see how this circus act ends …………..

Edited September 19, 2014 by ScotBkk

[wellred]

On reflection I can see many people being very wary of making plans to come to Thailand, especially while this double murder is in the headlines. Linked to the other murders of foreigners that have been highlighted and not forgotten by many members here it shows the basic ineptitude of the RTP in handling cases like this. Be that down to corruption, actual ineptitude, the fact it is foreigners who are murdered or whatever.

There should be some sort of National murder squad or at least a squad that deals with high profile cases AND that they are independent AND above corruption at local or national level. Maybe that would get better results.

Or maybe the police should just do their job. But even for a dedicated unit, for that there needs to be a requirement upstream of all of this, or a desire to want to change. Without that this whole incident will simply become another statistic.

[Mackie]

This is the latest CCTV footage released. I don't think two Asian guys could've done it. David appeared to be quite tall and strong lad. Allegedly he was dragged to the sea and drowned. At the same time someone raped the girl. More than two men were involved. Assuming they were Asians.

Thai Police Examine Latest Footage of David Miller

Images have emerged of David Miller on the night he was murdered with Hannah Witheridge on Koh Tao island in Thailand.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/video/thai-police-examine-latest-footage-144006366.html

[Tony121]

A thai friend has just told me that on the news just now they have said the DNA is asian

[WhamBam]

On reflection I can see many people being very wary of making plans to come to Thailand, especially while this double murder is in the headlines. Linked to the other murders of foreigners that have been highlighted and not forgotten by many members here it shows the basic ineptitude of the RTP in handling cases like this. Be that down to corruption, actual ineptitude, the fact it is foreigners who are murdered or whatever.

There should be some sort of National murder squad or at least a squad that deals with high profile cases AND that they are independent AND above corruption at local or national level. Maybe that would get better results.

Or maybe the police should just do their job. But even for a dedicated unit, for that there needs to be a requirement upstream of all of this, or a desire to want to change. Without that this whole incident will simply become another statistic.

Many average plod may know about preserving a scene and not messing about, stomping all over everything. Yet to ask the average policeman to solve a murder seems a bit too much. That is why most countries have a murder squad(s) in their area.

Yes it will require someone at the top to make sure something like this comes about. That all depends on if they want to do it and I cannot see that happening myself either.

[ClutchClark]

BS! The killers will never be caught.

The police will pin it in some local drug gang who haven't paid their police fees/bribes. Then, after being locked up, they'll be pardoned in about 5 years.

That's the way it works out here. Get used to it.

Wow, eat humble pie much?

[ScotBkk]

This is the latest CCTV footage released. I don't think two Asian guys could've done it. David appeared to be quite tall and strong lad. Allegedly he was dragged to the sea and drowned. At the same time someone raped the girl. More than two men were involved. Assuming they were Asians.

Thai Police Examine Latest Footage of David Miller

Images have emerged of David Miller on the night he was murdered with Hannah Witheridge on Koh Tao island in Thailand.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/video/thai-police-examine-latest-footage-144006366.html

Mackie,

Thanks for the clip. Its obvious it was a few people like a gang or something along those lines. Pray it all comes out into the open mate .........

[blowin]

The only good if any to come out of this sad episode is that maybe the goverment are reading these treads. There is a common trend of mafia,saving face and drugs and of course the police coruption. This General and now Prime minister seems a good guy and want to do good for his country and its people and maybe seeing and hearing all this bad press some good will come out of this evil. I am very disillusioned with Thailand a country I love and where my wife and son were born so I hope this might be a turning point or maybe I am being naive. I hope and pray that this evil is caught and maybe give the family some solace in knowing that they will pay for their crime.