Asian suspects raped English tourist

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

Didn't Thai staff state they saw Mr. Chris walking near the crime seen? Sounds like someone told them "You saw a Farang!!!" ... Slap! ... Slap! After a few slaps an Asian might look like a Farang. Depends on the trajectory and velocity of the slaps to their heads.

[foxteen]

The Asian guy that shake hands with David Miller most like kill him....the shake hands is ore then that..is pass it on dope i believe by hand >>they should check david lungs to see what results will come up

[Thai at Heart]

Well the three stooges could do a better investigation. They are now testing the women on the island? No way they're gonna bust a Thai male for this are they. It's got to be a migrant woman. Jeez, 5 days have gone by and they still won't check out the Thai males that could've been responsible. Ain't gonna get solved, that's what I think. A small island with very few inhabitants, this could have and should have been solved within 48 hours, but when you won't look at the obvious culprits, you aren't gonna solve it. Must be some mighty connected person who committed this with so much protection.

I don't think a mighty connected person from a well off family would kill and rape someone. Doesn't make sense. If it was mafia style shooting, or involved a racketeering ring then you could say this.

The Thai police is just incompetent.

Every option is still open to my mind. DNA suggests Asian culprit.

Why go Mafia route. Hopefully time will tell. Unfortunately may never be solved.

One thing which is odd is the confidence and arrogance with which the killer acted. Dropping the shovel on the beach? Doesn't care a jot to cover his tracks.

Leaves DNA everywhere. Shares a cigarette?

Showing complete disdain for anyone's ability to catch him.

[foxteen]

"It's so absurd. It's horrific," one European business owner said. "If something happens it is never the Thais. They always blame the Burmese or the Westerners...Mr Miller, who is wearing a blue t-shirt and shorts, can be seen shaking hands with an Asian-looking man who is walking in the opposite direction (Sky News) Police should concentrate on Thais or Asians is more like to do that...no discrimination guys but we see enough wirh some vicious and violent crimes in Thailand

[foxteen]

Today one girl from SPAIN was raped by a taxi driver after back to her hotel from her first night at Kao San Road.

With all the news about the murder of 2 brits the police is trying to mute all the bad things that are occurring in LOS. The police wanted the girl doesnt speak to the media by giving some nights on a good hotel close to the river.

If anyone think im a troll is ok but my source is family of the girl in Spain. Im giving this information to prevent any tourist to get a taxi atnight and specially women and doing it alone.

Unfortunately the girl was prety and as PM said last week. Prety woman wearing bikini are in dangerous...

That's is bad ..i haven't seen any news about. Not really safe

[Richard W]

People with Downs Syndrome have been called mongoloid (small m) because of their features esp. eye and head shape, which because it's seen as stereo-typing or making fun of them based on looks is considered offensive.

Down, whose name is attached to the syndrome, called sufferers 'Mongoloid idiots' because (a) the condition reduces mental abilities and ( because of the vaguely Mongoloid appearance in Caucasoid cases. This term was a little unfair because most are imbeciles or morons, not idiots. The offensive use is actually when it is applied to people who don't suffer from the syndrome, and in that use it may be abbreviated to 'mongoloid', 'mongol' or even 'mong'.

Note that the word Mongoloid literally means 'of a Mongol form'.

Describing Mongoloid in its technical meanings as 'offensive' seems perverse.

[bkkdawg]

So, they've narrowed it down to about half the population of the world. Well done the BIB

[spidermike007]

Who needs assistance. Of course we have it all completely under control using our own home grown expertise.

At least he probably cut through the diversion of sending it overseas.

That $65 Walmart DNA kit came in really handy. We were so glad we invested the money in that equipment.

[bigjules007]

Borrats brother Bilo is also a mongoloid

[HooHaa]

I was a copper for 35 + years and I'm totally gobsmacked at the way the Thai Police have/are handling this. They appear to go public with every bit of information they acquire, without holding anything in reserve (having an Ace up their sleeve)to counter bogus alibis, red-herrings etc.

Do the general public NEED to know EVERY intimate detail ?

Serious question: Do the RTP go through ANY type of training or are they just given a uniform, a gun and told to go out there and be seen?

If I had performed my duties the way the RTP do, I would be ashamed to admit that I was once a Police Officer.

I AM DISGUSTED WITH, NEEDLESS TO SAY, THE INCIDENT BUT ALSO THE PROFESSIONALISM OF BOTH THE POLICE AND THE MEDIA.

Well said - In Germany no one speaks except the Media representative of the police and if anyone says anything they never comment on an ongoing investigation. Here it is the other way around. The cops all want to become the center of the investigation/cameras.

yes, well germany sets the bar we all strive reach.

[fish fingers]

I reckon the english tabloid media will stay on this, it has all the morbid ingredients to sell papers. The mirror are already suggesting it was local gangsters and that the island residents know and won't speak up.. if the murderers have money and connections, no wonder the police have been focusing on burmese and western suspects...

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

Do the people on this thread who are second guessing the police at every turn do the same thing whenever there is a crime committed back in their home country? I doubt it.

It really strikes me that there is an element of racism in play here when people who obviously have no background in law enforcement or criminal investigations think they are automatically smarter than the local police.

This crime occurred approx. one week ago. To my eye the investigation has been progressing at about the same pace as one might expect a similar investigation in the US or Great Britain to progress.

I just think the police deserve more credit and respect than they are being shown on this website.

Just my two cents.

Whether or not it is progressing at the same speed is debatable, but in most developed countries, the police would spend their time actually investigating and less time talking to the press and idle speculation. They would also have secured the crime scene and evidence that was gathered would have a chain of custody. Heaven only knows how many people walked around the crime scene, took pictures and handled stuff.

One spokesperson should be appointed and that is the only person who talks to the press. They should also make sure that any information given out doesn't prejudice the case or allow the perpetrators to figure out how close they really are.

Who doesn't second guess the police in their own country? You must be enjoying a Happy Mushroom Shake or smoking some bad indo.

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

I agree that all of this in the forum now looks like an ugly discussion. Yet it is also understandable that the participants suffer with the victims and each one seeks an explanation.

Numerous bashing here of insiders towards local authorities hints at some frustration. It has not always been like that. Times change

I say again: DNA testing can not prove someone is Caucasian or East Asian There is only 0.01 percent of genes that account for some racial features, so races are more a social concept than a genetical one

Live and prosper caveman...

[Kron]

I reckon the english tabloid media will stay on this, it has all the morbid ingredients to sell papers. The mirror are already suggesting it was local gangsters and that the island residents know and won't speak up.. if the murderers have money and connections, no wonder the police have been focusing on burmese and western suspects...

Sadly already the BBC is void of articles on the recent issues, unless you count the PM's bikini comment.

My Thai wife was happy to let me know when the Brit was arrested but now the suspects look to be Asian she has gone all quite. As with us all, we hate to think it is one of our own that could have done this terrible thing.

Edited September 21, 2014 by Kron

[ScotBkk]

I reckon the english tabloid media will stay on this, it has all the morbid ingredients to sell papers. The mirror are already suggesting it was local gangsters and that the island residents know and won't speak up.. if the murderers have money and connections, no wonder the police have been focusing on burmese and western suspects...

Sadly already the BBC is void of articles on the recent issues, unless you count the PM's bikini comment.

My Thai wife was happy to let me know when the Brit was arrested but now the suspects look to be Asian she has gone all quite. As with us all, we hate to think it is one of our own that could have done this terrible thing.

Well said' Kron.

Its a terrible shame some other expats don't take your guide or outlook other than eek out slanderous comment now they're no longer part of our own culture .........

[Scott]

Off-topic and inflammatory posts and replies removed.

[FangFerang]

And all the witchhunt Sherlocks on the other thread about the hapless brit lad who was detained are now... slowly recovering from being turned into Newts?

"She turned me into a newt!"

After incredulous look.

"Well, I got better"

from the Magnificent Monty Python's "Holy Grail"

[Gecko123]

I really deep down have great difficulty in understanding people of your ilk. Thai apologists are people who vent their disgust on their own kind ..... very strange indeed ..

ScotBkk:

I don't know what you mean by the term: 'Thai apologist.'

Is defending someone who you think is being unfairly criticized being an 'apologist?' I have presented an objective basis for my defense of the Thai police's performance. For me, the word 'apologist' suggests someone who blindly tries to defend something which doesn't deserve to be defended. I don't think that is the case here.

I do know, however, what the term "ethnocentric" means.

Ethnocentric: "holding the belief that one's own cultural tradition or racial group is superior to all others."

I think there are plenty of people on this forum - - like you - - who think it is their perogative to endlessly fault-find and critique Thais, Thai culture, Thai intelligence, Thai competency, Thai 'you-name-it' who are far more guilty of ethnocentric if not outright racist thinking than I will ever be guilty of being a Thai apologist. Since when is showing awareness, sensitivity and respect for cultural differences being an 'apologist?' Since when is the purpose of travel to criticize anything which doesn't meet our expectations?

We may share English as our mother tongue, but once you move beyond that I'm not sure how much we have in common. I feel more at home here than I ever felt living in the US, and a big part of my reason for moving here was to get away from people who think they are innately superior to other people.

I can appreciate that Thailand may not be everyone's cup of tea. But if it isn't, the solution isn't to endlessly bellyache about it in cyberspace. The solution is to go somewhere else where you feel more at home. That's what I did when I moved here. Maybe you should do the same and head back home.

Edited September 21, 2014 by Gecko123

[FangFerang]

I was a copper for 35 + years and I'm totally gobsmacked at the way the Thai Police have/are handling this. They appear to go public with every bit of information they acquire, without holding anything in reserve (having an Ace up their sleeve)to counter bogus alibis, red-herrings etc.

Do the general public NEED to know EVERY intimate detail ?

Serious question: Do the RTP go through ANY type of training or are they just given a uniform, a gun and told to go out there and be seen?

If I had performed my duties the way the RTP do, I would be ashamed to admit that I was once a Police Officer.

I AM DISGUSTED WITH, NEEDLESS TO SAY, THE INCIDENT BUT ALSO THE PROFESSIONALISM OF BOTH THE POLICE AND THE MEDIA.

Well said - In Germany no one speaks except the Media representative of the police and if anyone says anything they never comment on an ongoing investigation. Here it is the other way around. The cops all want to become the center of the investigation/cameras.

yes, well germany sets the bar we all strive reach.

Hey...............ya didn't need to snark the Germans...modern Germans are hardworking, intelligent people, and considered the best machinists in the world by many machinists. Just because Genghis Khan came from Mongolia doesn't make modern Mongolians all marauders...

[stephen terry]

Why not start again? Bring in an elite forensic investigation squad from BKK to control the investigation and to put a stop to everyday contradictory media reports. Or let the local police bumble along until we're all fed up reading about their inadequacies, and insensitive revelations.

A summary:

More than one killer, maybe a gang.

Most probably Asian.

Sum total to date. And it's taken many days to reach this point. There are now 150 police officers covering the island. If there remains any concerns from this forum that local mafia are hiding multiple killers, I suggest the first phase of the 'new' investigation must be to eliminate residents and migratory workers from the list of possible suspects. If that is 'resisted' the army should be called in.

On the assumption that no locals were involved, every boat captain must be interviewed, and every bar worker, and every back-packer still on the island. Photos of the Asians on CCTV should be distributed to try and identify the possible suspects. And that's just for starters.

Or am I living in a dream world?

[mauGR1]

I really deep down have great difficulty in understanding people of your ilk. Thai apologists are people who vent their disgust on their own kind ..... very strange indeed ..

ScotBkk:

I don't know what you mean by the term: 'Thai apologist.'

Is defending someone who you think is being unfairly criticized being an 'apologist?' I have presented an objective basis for my defense of the Thai police's performance. For me, the word 'apologist' suggests someone who blindly tries to defend something which doesn't deserve to be defended. I don't think that is the case here.

I do know, however, what the term "ethnocentric" means.

Ethnocentric: "holding the belief that one's own cultural tradition or racial group is superior to all others."

I think there are plenty of people on this forum - - like you - - who think it is their perogative to endlessly fault-find and critique Thais, Thai culture, Thai intelligence, Thai competency, Thai 'you-name-it' who are far more guilty of ethnocentric if not outright racist thinking than I will ever be guilty of being a Thai apologist. Since when is showing awareness, sensitivity and respect for cultural differences being an 'apologist?' Since when is the purpose of travel to criticize anything which doesn't meet our expectations?

We may share English as our mother tongue, but once you move beyond that I'm not sure how much we have in common. I feel more at home here than I ever felt living in the US, and a big part of my reason for moving here was to get away from people who think they are innately superior to other people.

I can appreciate that Thailand may not be everyone's cup of tea. But if it isn't, the solution isn't to endlessly bellyache about it in cyberspace. The solution is to go somewhere else where you feel more at home. That's what I did when I moved here. Maybe you should do the same and head back home.

Have to say i can see more love for Thailand and Thais through Mr. ScotBkk anger and frustration, than i can see through this "politically correct " speech.

I think your glasses are pink, both frame and lenses.

[Tatsujin]

Pol Gen Somyot Phunphanmuang disclosed the latest test of DNA samples collected from semen … Ms Hannah Witheridge, 23, showed they belonged to Mongoloid people or Asians.

Finally!

And for the person on the other thread that dismissed my post on exactly this matter and suggested this was not possible with DNA tests, well . . .

Sorry Tatsujin, but both you and the general are mistaken.

DNA can not determine race, it can only identify traits of various groups of people, such as Asians (epicanthic folds), Europeans (blue/green eyes).

Really means little at this point in this particular crime, especially since so many people are of mixed race nowadays.

Furthermore, Thailand unlikely has the capability of determining traits, from DNA, such as blue hair or epicanthic folds. It requires advanced training, techniques, and equipment. And more than just a day or two.

More BS from the BIB.

Thank you, you've just confirmed what I said in that previous thread . . . that particular traits can be found and then used (with a high probability of accuracy 97%+) to then exclude/include particular "racial characteristics" including eye color, hair color, tendency to specific diseases etc etc.

If the DNA testing showed the "suspect" has a high likelihood of having blue eyes and blonde hair (as a hypothetical example), then the focus of the investigation should probably be on "westerners", rather than "Asians".

You are correct, you can't test for "race" or "nationality", but you CAN (depending on the specific results) then use those results to make some inferences with a high probability of accuracy.

As for their capabilities here, probably not what is needed so they'll be asking for outside assistance if they haven't already done so.

[glassdude007]

If this case ever goes to trial ??

How the prosecutors can build a strong case if all the essential secret evidence only the killer or killers should know about, I/E sperm in the anus comment, telling all the ethnicity of the suspect? Lots of other comments that should be kept tight lipped until trial. This type of sensitive evidence should NOT be broadcast to media outlets…Just say NO COMMENT would be a better option at this time…don't ya think?? I just don’t get it??? Third world Police work I guess.

[metisdead]

Posts commenting on moderation have been removed. If your intent is to only post in manner to bait others into emotional responses, you are simply asking for your post to be removed.

[Bleacher Bum East]

I really deep down have great difficulty in understanding people of your ilk. Thai apologists are people who vent their disgust on their own kind ..... very strange indeed ..

ScotBkk:

I don't know what you mean by the term: 'Thai apologist.'

Is defending someone who you think is being unfairly criticized being an 'apologist?' I have presented an objective basis for my defense of the Thai police's performance. For me, the word 'apologist' suggests someone who blindly tries to defend something which doesn't deserve to be defended. I don't think that is the case here.

I do know, however, what the term "ethnocentric" means.

Ethnocentric: "holding the belief that one's own cultural tradition or racial group is superior to all others."

I think there are plenty of people on this forum - - like you - - who think it is their perogative to endlessly fault-find and critique Thais, Thai culture, Thai intelligence, Thai competency, Thai 'you-name-it' who are far more guilty of ethnocentric if not outright racist thinking than I will ever be guilty of being a Thai apologist. Since when is showing awareness, sensitivity and respect for cultural differences being an 'apologist?' Since when is the purpose of travel to criticize anything which doesn't meet our expectations?

We may share English as our mother tongue, but once you move beyond that I'm not sure how much we have in common. I feel more at home here than I ever felt living in the US, and a big part of my reason for moving here was to get away from people who think they are innately superior to other people.

I can appreciate that Thailand may not be everyone's cup of tea. But if it isn't, the solution isn't to endlessly bellyache about it in cyberspace. The solution is to go somewhere else where you feel more at home. That's what I did when I moved here. Maybe you should do the same and head back home.

I also feel more at home here in Thailand than I do back in the U.S.

That being said, I totally disagree with what seems to be the premise of your comments.

Basically, you have transformed "America, love it or leave it" into "Thailand, love it or leave it."

Regardless of where you choose to live, there will be positive and negative aspects to the country, culture, local government, etc.

It is entirely possible to enjoy and appreciate the positive aspects of the place you choose to live while being aware and constructively critical of the negative aspects. They are not mutually exclusive.

In fact, I believe that if you choose to live somewhere long term, then engaging and contributing to the debate over the positive and negative shows much more respect for the local people than just sitting back and saying "it's their country they can do how they want, even if it's entirely self-destructive and harms the very people I claim to respect."

Yes, you do have to be open-minded and accepting that different cultures do things very differently, and that's not at all a bad thing even if it's not our way. "Listen and try to understand before commenting" is in my view always the best approach.

But you do not have to turn a blind-eye to something like the current debacle on Kho Tao. By any objective criteria, the police and government handling of this situation, from the local to the national level, has been totally incompetent and a complete farce. From the inability to secure the crime scene, to the conflicting and ever-changing statements being blurted out to the media, to the apparent refusal to even consider (initially at least) an entire category of likely suspects--i.e. local Thais, etc. etc., this has made the country you imply we should all either accept as is or go somewhere else look extremely bad, and for very good reason.

This has serious detrimental effects on the country and culture we have chosen to live in, which mainly harms our Thai friends.

I care about that.

And no, my revulsion at how this has been handled does not mean I should go find somewhere else to live. It means I want the country where I have chosen to stay to do better--much more for its own sake than for mine.

One caveat to what I've just said: I believe there is a line of cynicism and bitterness that many ex-pats cross where they no longer, if they ever did, have the ability to think with an open mind about the culture where they have chosen to live, and do indeed endlessly complain about what they see as the negative aspects without acknowledging any of the positive, or appreciating that different cultures do some things different ways and most often that's fine. And I agree that many on Thai Visa have gone way over that line. But in this instance, most of the criticism is well-deserved.

Edited September 21, 2014 by Bleacher Bum East

[Tatsujin]

I really deep down have great difficulty in understanding people of your ilk. Thai apologists are people who vent their disgust on their own kind ..... very strange indeed ..

ScotBkk:

I don't know what you mean by the term: 'Thai apologist.'

Is defending someone who you think is being unfairly criticized being an 'apologist?' I have presented an objective basis for my defense of the Thai police's performance. For me, the word 'apologist' suggests someone who blindly tries to defend something which doesn't deserve to be defended. I don't think that is the case here.

I do know, however, what the term "ethnocentric" means.

Ethnocentric: "holding the belief that one's own cultural tradition or racial group is superior to all others."

I think there are plenty of people on this forum - - like you - - who think it is their perogative to endlessly fault-find and critique Thais, Thai culture, Thai intelligence, Thai competency, Thai 'you-name-it' who are far more guilty of ethnocentric if not outright racist thinking than I will ever be guilty of being a Thai apologist. Since when is showing awareness, sensitivity and respect for cultural differences being an 'apologist?' Since when is the purpose of travel to criticize anything which doesn't meet our expectations?

We may share English as our mother tongue, but once you move beyond that I'm not sure how much we have in common. I feel more at home here than I ever felt living in the US, and a big part of my reason for moving here was to get away from people who think they are innately superior to other people.

I can appreciate that Thailand may not be everyone's cup of tea. But if it isn't, the solution isn't to endlessly bellyache about it in cyberspace. The solution is to go somewhere else where you feel more at home. That's what I did when I moved here. Maybe you should do the same and head back home.

I also feel more at home here in Thailand than I do back in the U.S.

That being said, I totally disagree with what seems to be the premise of your comments.

Basically, you have transformed "America, love it or leave it" into "Thailand, love it or leave it."

Regardless of where you choose to live, there will be positive and negative aspects to the country, culture, local government, etc.

It is entirely possible to enjoy and appreciate the positive aspects of the place you choose to live while being aware and constructively critical of the negative aspects. They are not mutually exclusive.

In fact, I believe that if you choose to live somewhere long term, then engaging and contributing to the debate over the positive and negative shows much more respect for the local people than just sitting back and saying "it's their country they can do how they want, even if it's entirely self-destructive and harms the very people I claim to respect."

Yes, you do have to be open-minded and accepting that different cultures do things very differently, and that's not at all a bad thing even if it's not our way. "Listen and try to understand before commenting" is in my view always the best approach.

But you do not have to turn a blind-eye to something like the current debacle on Kho Tao. By any objective criteria, the police and government handling of this situation, from the local to the national level, has been totally incompetent and a complete farce. From the inability to secure the crime scene, to the conflicting and ever-changing statements being blurted out to the media, to the apparent refusal to even consider (initially at least) an entire category of likely suspects--i.e. local Thais, etc. etc., this has made the country you imply we should all either accept as is or go somewhere else look extremely bad, and for very good reason.

This has serious detrimental effects on the country and culture we have chosen to live in, which mainly harms our Thai friends.

I care about that.

And no, my revulsion at how this has been handled does not mean I should go find somewhere else to live. It means I want the country where I have chosen to stay to do better--much more for its own sake than for mine.

+1, nicely put.

[stephen terry]

I really deep down have great difficulty in understanding people of your ilk. Thai apologists are people who vent their disgust on their own kind ..... very strange indeed ..

ScotBkk:

I don't know what you mean by the term: 'Thai apologist.'

Is defending someone who you think is being unfairly criticized being an 'apologist?' I have presented an objective basis for my defense of the Thai police's performance. For me, the word 'apologist' suggests someone who blindly tries to defend something which doesn't deserve to be defended. I don't think that is the case here.

I do know, however, what the term "ethnocentric" means.

Ethnocentric: "holding the belief that one's own cultural tradition or racial group is superior to all others."

I think there are plenty of people on this forum - - like you - - who think it is their perogative to endlessly fault-find and critique Thais, Thai culture, Thai intelligence, Thai competency, Thai 'you-name-it' who are far more guilty of ethnocentric if not outright racist thinking than I will ever be guilty of being a Thai apologist. Since when is showing awareness, sensitivity and respect for cultural differences being an 'apologist?' Since when is the purpose of travel to criticize anything which doesn't meet our expectations?

We may share English as our mother tongue, but once you move beyond that I'm not sure how much we have in common. I feel more at home here than I ever felt living in the US, and a big part of my reason for moving here was to get away from people who think they are innately superior to other people.

I can appreciate that Thailand may not be everyone's cup of tea. But if it isn't, the solution isn't to endlessly bellyache about it in cyberspace. The solution is to go somewhere else where you feel more at home. That's what I did when I moved here. Maybe you should do the same and head back home.

Gecko - this is a murder investigation - a particularly brutal murder and rape of two young Brits. It is evident that the conduct of this investigation is less than 'professional', or up to state of the art standards used by Brits or Americans. It is a fact that the skill set of Thailand in this type of forensic analysis is lacking - that's not Thai-bashing, it's a true state of affairs, combined with their culture that prevents admitting failure. However, I support the view that to harangue and ridicule the Thai police is out of place, because this is how they handle such incidents in Thailand. Until there is a huge change in behavioural culture promoted by the government, it will remain the same ad infinitum. I'm saying that on the assumption that Thailand wants cultural change - I'm not sure that is true, and if it remains the same, we will see this type of investigation continue as before.

[catweazle]

Feeling very sorry for the parents of the victims, having to read crap like this, and intimate details put out in the open. What a mess!

[Strangebrew]

So Now task is simple block all Asian's from leaving island DNA test the lot Record this information for future reference. Or next time come to me from the blurry picture I told it was a Thai.

[Strangebrew]

Just enhance image and you got him. But you knew that already.